Seems weird DC only got one vote, DC has to manage divinity and tab between 2 versions of its skills, AS makes it too easy, but it's still more complicated to play at a high level than most other classes.
once you reach a good level of recovery it doesnt take much to press a button every 8 seconds.
yes they reach a good level of recovery not like cw and hr with lies feats reset cooldowns( and i am cw and i say that ).....
Ability to hold its own vs opponent is another , yet its different depending on if you are attacking a cap (1v1 clear the other),
or defending (1v ? -- stay alive the longest).
Ability to read opponents' movements and manage your encounters and rotation in order to intercept/interrupt him is another.
And of course we should take into consideration that especially in this mod the ability differs depending on what path you choose, gear you have and enchants you have mounted
There are also tons of things that require skill which will waste my time since it will take too long to state here
So: I am not gonna bite, there is no class that needs more/less skill that another at least in the context of which the main question was asked in this thread. I am thinking though to make a thread called 'how much skilled is required to make a decent thread in this community'
PS keep in mind that this game does not require more skill than other games in pvp
Thread should just be what was the most skill-based meta of every class.
CW: the meatball generation TR: early mods' jump DF DC: divine exaltion tank/healer GWF: could be right now HR: always had something broken to put a bad image despite the class being "aimed at skilled players," said devs OP: NEVER! and never will. SW: current meta GF: mods 1, 2 or 3
Or it should be like which tree of every class requires more skill on various ilvl's
because for instance kweassa said his #2 is gwf . But kweassa plays instigator if I remember correctly and there is a huge gap skill-wise in this mod playing instigator from playing destroyer
Paladin, because you have to press a key from time to time just so you don't get disconnected due to inactivity. Preferably, tap 1 or 2 (depending on where you slotted Divine Protector) every 20s just to avoid disconnects.
I say SW, just because we have to find ways around being the HAMSTER punching bag in PvP. I have played all the classes ingame so far and I have to say while the most frustrating to play, SW definitely takes a lot of skill to play. Their is no happy medium with this class, either you find ways to fight all class in the game even with the shocking fiasco or you quit and roll another class, which most have done (Try to find a healthy Warlock community in game).
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
Another SW player. At the peak of my frustration i started to gear my TR and GF for pvp. TR in pvp what a joke, no wonder there are so many of them. So easy class to play. GF is bit harder, but i quess it will be easier when geared (now il 2.1k) Still both of those classes are way easier to play than SW.
SW no question because of all the problems already mentioned, and that everybody *knows* SWs are extremely easy to kill, you'll be everyone's target.
I've been levelling up all the classes in PVP to compare how it is before end game. Looking at that rather than end game, it's still SW requiring most skill, but the gap isn't as wide. TRs are ludicrously easy (barely any effort to come top of the board, get the most kills, no deaths, most caps, etc.), OPs boring as hell but you never die.
As mentioned though, the game is too twinked now to make PVP enjoyable levelling up. I'm now surprised if I don't see people with full Mulhorand and Xvim sets loaded with rank 9-12s. And they generally don't 'help', they stomp. The side with the r12s and transcendent enchant obviously wins every time.
warlock can´t stand against TR Hunter GWF GF DC on same level at 3k+
TR: even using stealthreveal rings its not possible, only against bad TR´s (a lot in game) Hunter: disables you, nothing more to say. GF: the ones with 13+arp just burst you in no time GWF: feytouched + negation no way, no feytouched or negation small chance >3k+GS DC: faithfull not to kill, rightous burns you away, not sure how its now since avalanche is fixed...DC is an avalanche spamming troll class, I play one in PVP and its easy mode, probably compareable to a TR in case of Skill/Success ratio OP: boring class imo, not much to add, spoils most matches and makes them boring and lame, allways happy to snipe one away by critting WB encounter , most matches without OP are quick and somehow intensive, 100% more fun (except a 4k boring faithfull DC takes part)
Agreed, its really hard to see any skill behind some builds you meet in PVP because its a cake walk to dominate other classes. Sometimes you meet player who play "weaker classes" and do great by that, but running ACT you recognize its only bug abusing of some offhand feats boons or other stuff. And having top scores inside a premade does not show anything except that your premade setup and the talent and skill of your hole group is fine, or you abuse the most bugs/exploits/synergies effectively. Meeting some top player outside a premade it´s sometimes not that impressive any more. SH-PVP is redicules by having companion bonus up all time, so not to decide if skill is involved too.
warlock can´t stand against TR Hunter GWF GF DC on same level at 3k+
TR: even using stealthreveal rings its not possible, only against bad TR´s (a lot in game) Hunter: disables you, nothing more to say. GF: the ones with 13+arp just burst you in no time GWF: feytouched + negation no way, no feytouched or negation small chance >3k+GS DC: faithfull not to kill, rightous burns you away, not sure how its now since avalanche is fixed...DC is an avalanche spamming troll class, I play one in PVP and its easy mode, probably compareable to a TR in case of Skill/Success ratio OP: boring class imo, not much to add, spoils most matches and makes them boring and lame, allways happy to snipe one away by critting WB encounter , most matches without OP are quick and somehow intensive, 100% more fun (except a 4k boring faithfull DC takes part)
1. TRs full recovery or even first strike are a joke for me now, get the water weap, water wheel, sparks, lifesteal and you can aggressively hunt them down, I've beaten most BIS trs since I got the weapon, I was beating them before too but now more consistent and not 50/50 relying on critting for sparks.
2. GFs don't kill you unless everything lines up for them, and if you see ITF+firewheel+daily coming towards you, then shame on you if you stayed to watch :].
3. GWFs are really scary, it seems that their shout is abit bugged and does more damage, they also have bugged daily that hits twice when in close range, I took 110k from Savage advance, I look at the ACT and it was 2x "Takedown" or something like that w/ some other feat, but even they can't kill an SW if he decide to turtle up with dreadtheft.
4. HR is still our hardest counter, it's very simple fight: full CC vs no dodge + slow casting, guess who will win? (even a 2k ilvl hr can kill 4k, all he has to do is make sure he doesn't mess up his perma daze).
For the topic, id say every dps class requires the most motor skill to play (execution, timing, baiting), except GWFs, they just swing and swing and chunk down your hp with 20k at wills.
warlock can´t stand against TR Hunter GWF GF DC on same level at 3k+
TR: even using stealthreveal rings its not possible, only against bad TR´s (a lot in game) Hunter: disables you, nothing more to say. GF: the ones with 13+arp just burst you in no time GWF: feytouched + negation no way, no feytouched or negation small chance >3k+GS DC: faithfull not to kill, rightous burns you away, not sure how its now since avalanche is fixed...DC is an avalanche spamming troll class, I play one in PVP and its easy mode, probably compareable to a TR in case of Skill/Success ratio OP: boring class imo, not much to add, spoils most matches and makes them boring and lame, allways happy to snipe one away by critting WB encounter , most matches without OP are quick and somehow intensive, 100% more fun (except a 4k boring faithfull DC takes part)
1. TRs full recovery or even first strike are a joke for me now, get the water weap, water wheel, sparks, lifesteal and you can aggressively hunt them down, I've beaten most BIS trs since I got the weapon, I was beating them before too but now more consistent and not 50/50 relying on critting for sparks.
2. GFs don't kill you unless everything lines up for them, and if you see ITF+firewheel+daily coming towards you, then shame on you if you stayed to watch :].
3. GWFs are really scary, it seems that their shout is abit bugged and does more damage, they also have bugged daily that hits twice when in close range, I took 110k from Savage advance, I look at the ACT and it was 2x "Takedown" or something like that w/ some other feat, but even they can't kill an SW if he decide to turtle up with dreadtheft.
4. HR is still our hardest counter, it's very simple fight: full CC vs no dodge + slow casting, guess who will win? (even a 2k ilvl hr can kill 4k, all he has to do is make sure he doesn't mess up his perma daze).
For the topic, id say every dps class requires the most motor skill to play (execution, timing, baiting), except GWFs, they just swing and swing and chunk down your hp with 20k at wills.
1. show me your warlock against a good TR from any other guild, would be interesting because i really doubt that a warlock dominates a skilled TR... I agree that its possible to hunt them down with DOTS and DT etc., but in 99% them are TR´s doing PVP with half baked builds used to have easy game in most cases Against the "Onebutton-TR" you are nothing more than -->one button<-- also funny is Smokebomb+Courage breaker, or smokebomb+ SE as finisher a PVP build TR, T negated, is hard to fight, even at lower level at higher level you definitley will suck in most cases
2. so i met this GF (P....) from Black turtle gaming in Dom, he/she is 3,3k GS, 11k DR, 20k power, 13k Arp and I would like to see your warlock against that class to prove what you say, I really see near no point for a warlock, even having high arp your encounter deal laughable damage like: HG max damage 675 , most damage dealing with pasive procs its laughable tbh, its 100 bad GF´s and one good player, same with Tr´s the good one needs one daily that deals >100k damage+one encounter -->anvil 118k crit +bullcharge 60k crit, dead in seconds ?? strategy is just stay away and count until buffs run out?
3. maybe on BIS level you can stand that damageinferno, but until I do not see you in Dom facing one of these BIS GWF with a runner build I doubt its on warlock´s side to decide if he dies , its the GWF that decides
4. HR agree
5. there will pop up silly things more and more today I met a 2,2k OP in dom, he had this 30%DR ring on top, and a normal barkshield enchant or a greater one, not sure, I casted about1 min non stop on him and the only thing I saw was 0 0 0 0 0 0 most time, no matter if i cc`d him , clueless was caused this
you have to admit that your warlock can´t handle that piercing and bursting inferno in case you go dom solo, not protected by OP or DC, or does your warlock have a dodge? No sry, this class is not made for PVP and posting the contrary does not make it any better my rightous DC can handle same classes, same palyer far easier than my warlock can and he is far worse geared btw just tried fury in PVP and there is no big difference to damnation except that irritating CD popping all time blinding me CD 6% from al damage for a capstone, not that big
You did not prove it to me, at least >90% of warlocks agree about the facts ... And sure I did see you in Dom, but I really do not know of you do lots if steps outside a premade? warlocks have to run all time and no skill can change the way things are Most other classes can decide matches , warlock can't This discussion is not about how skilled 1person is, its about how in general this class performs and if skill is needed to succeed
rayrdan said: "Thats what i was trying to say.. When the warlock is good and martin is one of the best..you dont really have many problems with the class "
you name it, he is a skilled player thats the point Exactly that is the argument, skilled player meets nub, and thats why he can't speak for an average player in dom In case a skilled player with a 4k+ toon like him meets 100 bad undergeared GF's or 100 bad TR's (and there are tons of) in Dom this proves nothing, zero So in case Hamilton beats you in a twingo , you driving a Mustang, do you say Twingo is a "Bad-äss-car"....go buy it I met him, i met Sophie in dom and its exactly how i say, warlocks do not decide a s.hit in Dom, beside running with a premade and strong teammates
I do all day solo queue never premade, so who do you believe has a more objective sight in the class? a. the one that runs BIS 4k+ side by side with 4 skilled maxed player in DOM, SH and GG against 2-4k toons or b.the one that, in case he has bad luck, runs side by side with "Kurt" or "KillerTR" or "Terminator" them wearing 2,5k PVE gear
warlock can perform but is easily countered, by lots of classes (Hunter ,TR, GWF, GF, DC.... cc burst "hasta la vista" pointless discussion from a onesided way of sight imo last point to add...if there were no problem with that class in PVP , why is the ratio warlock:TR or warlock:GWF or warlock:OP ---> 1:10? No its fine sure mates, lol
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them, facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
The reason why is not many know how to use the class to it's fullest. There is maybe 3 good warlocks out there that can out tank a OP. With more heals than a DC. They try cookie cutter damage based builds and suck but the good ones I have seen our soulbinder Temp build. This takes some skill to pull off as you have to have soulsparks up to get the most healing going.
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
The reason why is not many know how to use the class to it's fullest. There is maybe 3 good warlocks out there that can out tank a OP. With more heals than a DC. They try cookie cutter damage based builds and suck but the good ones I have seen our soulbinder Temp build. This takes some skill to pull off as you have to have soulsparks up to get the most healing going.
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
please tell me on wich planet you live? X-box galactica? the Warlocks that runs BIS PVP are all fury, I did not see one Temptation BIS warlock till now, who is it? and in case you talk about one BIS warlock that queued and stuck with a 2-3k GS group, yes sure he will be a beast, every class that is 4k+ stompes 2-3k you do not know anything about warlock or PVP right? outank an OP? whats that? do you even know what you talk about? sure a Op can´t kill a BIS warlock correct, most classes can burst him down in no time or cc him to death, lol, try taht with an BIS OP, really funny post The heasl a temptation "throws" are that poor in PVE that noone plays temptation tree, tbh at BIS level it can be viable
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
The reason why is not many know how to use the class to it's fullest. There is maybe 3 good warlocks out there that can out tank a OP. With more heals than a DC. They try cookie cutter damage based builds and suck but the good ones I have seen our soulbinder Temp build. This takes some skill to pull off as you have to have soulsparks up to get the most healing going.
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
please tell me on wich planet you live? X-box galactica? the Warlocks that runs BIS PVP are all fury, I did not see one Temptation BIS warlock till now, who is it? and in case you talk about one BIS warlock that queued and stuck with a 2-3k GS group, yes sure he will be a beast, every class that is 4k+ stompes 2-3k you do not know anything about warlock or PVP right? outank an OP? whats that? do you even know what you talk about? The heasl a temptation "throws" are that poor in PVE that noone plays temptation tree, tbh at BIS level it can be viable
Sorry all I heard was boo hoo it does not fit my narrative.
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
The reason why is not many know how to use the class to it's fullest. There is maybe 3 good warlocks out there that can out tank a OP. With more heals than a DC. They try cookie cutter damage based builds and suck but the good ones I have seen our soulbinder Temp build. This takes some skill to pull off as you have to have soulsparks up to get the most healing going.
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
please tell me on wich planet you live? X-box galactica? the Warlocks that runs BIS PVP are all fury, I did not see one Temptation BIS warlock till now, who is it? and in case you talk about one BIS warlock that queued and stuck with a 2-3k GS group, yes sure he will be a beast, every class that is 4k+ stompes 2-3k you do not know anything about warlock or PVP right? outank an OP? whats that? do you even know what you talk about? The heasl a temptation "throws" are that poor in PVE that noone plays temptation tree, tbh at BIS level it can be viable
Sorry all I heard was boo hoo it does not fit my narrative.
np, you fit very well to the "average smaltalk" in this forum that contain in 90% of all cases useless BS, go on
No amount of 'skill' can save you from being stunned and killed before you can actually do anything. This can easily happen with any TR and SW below 3k. Obviously at 4.5k ilvl things will vary, but there are like 2 high geared SWs in the entire game.
yeah and that proves that the class is fine in PVP.....?? both of them facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
I don't think many people seriously think SWs are fine in PVP. There are probably less than 10 active SWs playing PVP at level 70. The NCL made it plainly obvious to the devs that the class is broken, apparently why it is getting a rebalance 'soon'.
The reason why is not many know how to use the class to it's fullest. There is maybe 3 good warlocks out there that can out tank a OP. With more heals than a DC. They try cookie cutter damage based builds and suck but the good ones I have seen our soulbinder Temp build. This takes some skill to pull off as you have to have soulsparks up to get the most healing going.
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
please tell me on wich planet you live? X-box galactica? the Warlocks that runs BIS PVP are all fury, I did not see one Temptation BIS warlock till now, who is it? and in case you talk about one BIS warlock that queued and stuck with a 2-3k GS group, yes sure he will be a beast, every class that is 4k+ stompes 2-3k you do not know anything about warlock or PVP right? outank an OP? whats that? do you even know what you talk about? The heasl a temptation "throws" are that poor in PVE that noone plays temptation tree, tbh at BIS level it can be viable
Sorry all I heard was boo hoo it does not fit my narrative.
np, you fit very well to the "average smaltalk" in this forum that contain in 90% of all cases useless BS, go on
Rather be the small talk than the cry baby who starts arguments because they do not fit there narrative. Seriously you are in the pvp forum making references to pve to support your arguments. Fact is SW takes the highest amount of skill to play well and as demonstrated by your ignorance they are not common at all. There is only two or three due to Gear and skill required to play properly.
So your reference is go and play SB Temptations in PVP and "tank out" OP's and a hole BIS Party by that? You definitely have a lot of insight in PVP........on a very low level for sure I saw enough warlocks in Dom, BIS or not, to say : they have a hard live facing skilled player with equal gear...facing nubs its another story resulting in statements like "omg thats a beast"
Talking about skill and classes i would say: show me a BIS warlock XY against a skilled player like Mjolnir or Gweddry or Dom or Prim (even not BIS at all) or high ranked TR In case he defeats them you are right and I am wrong
The said Warlocks have defeated said people and the other way around. Your arguments are just based on biased perception. Because there are so few warlocks in the game that have played the class to its full potential doesnt and there are so many TRs, does not mean the SW is so bad.
A SW can even kill a BIS HR. Its not easy, but its possible. Oh, and btw: PVP is not only about kills, its about rotations. Guess what the SW is very good at…
Comments
Learning curve is one of them.
Ability to hold its own vs opponent is another , yet its different depending on if you are attacking a cap (1v1 clear the other),
or defending (1v ? -- stay alive the longest).
Ability to read opponents' movements and manage your encounters and rotation in order to intercept/interrupt him is another.
And of course we should take into consideration that especially in this mod the ability differs depending on what path you choose, gear you have and enchants you have mounted
There are also tons of things that require skill which will waste my time since it will take too long to state here
So: I am not gonna bite, there is no class that needs more/less skill that another at least in the context of which the main question was asked in this thread. I am thinking though to make a thread called 'how much skilled is required to make a decent thread in this community'
PS keep in mind that this game does not require more skill than other games in pvp
because for instance kweassa said his #2 is gwf . But kweassa plays instigator if I remember correctly
and there is a huge gap skill-wise in this mod playing instigator from playing destroyer
Preferably, tap 1 or 2 (depending on where you slotted Divine Protector) every 20s just to avoid disconnects.
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin
-Kymos
Still both of those classes are way easier to play than SW.
I've been levelling up all the classes in PVP to compare how it is before end game. Looking at that rather than end game, it's still SW requiring most skill, but the gap isn't as wide. TRs are ludicrously easy (barely any effort to come top of the board, get the most kills, no deaths, most caps, etc.), OPs boring as hell but you never die.
As mentioned though, the game is too twinked now to make PVP enjoyable levelling up. I'm now surprised if I don't see people with full Mulhorand and Xvim sets loaded with rank 9-12s. And they generally don't 'help', they stomp. The side with the r12s and transcendent enchant obviously wins every time.
TR: even using stealthreveal rings its not possible, only against bad TR´s (a lot in game)
Hunter: disables you, nothing more to say.
GF: the ones with 13+arp just burst you in no time
GWF: feytouched + negation no way, no feytouched or negation small chance >3k+GS
DC: faithfull not to kill, rightous burns you away, not sure how its now since avalanche is fixed...DC is an avalanche spamming troll class, I play one in PVP and its easy mode, probably compareable to a TR in case of Skill/Success ratio
OP: boring class imo, not much to add, spoils most matches and makes them boring and lame, allways happy to snipe one away by critting WB encounter , most matches without OP are quick and somehow intensive, 100% more fun (except a 4k boring faithfull DC takes part)
Sometimes you meet player who play "weaker classes" and do great by that, but running ACT you recognize its only bug abusing of some offhand feats boons or other stuff.
And having top scores inside a premade does not show anything except that your premade setup and the talent and skill of your hole group is fine, or you abuse the most bugs/exploits/synergies effectively.
Meeting some top player outside a premade it´s sometimes not that impressive any more.
SH-PVP is redicules by having companion bonus up all time, so not to decide if skill is involved too.
2. GFs don't kill you unless everything lines up for them, and if you see ITF+firewheel+daily coming towards you, then shame on you if you stayed to watch :].
3. GWFs are really scary, it seems that their shout is abit bugged and does more damage, they also have bugged daily that hits twice when in close range, I took 110k from Savage advance, I look at the ACT and it was 2x "Takedown" or something like that w/ some other feat, but even they can't kill an SW if he decide to turtle up with dreadtheft.
4. HR is still our hardest counter, it's very simple fight: full CC vs no dodge + slow casting, guess who will win? (even a 2k ilvl hr can kill 4k, all he has to do is make sure he doesn't mess up his perma daze).
5. New RINGS? well they kind of broke the game, SW is once again being punished for having alot of DOTs (Try cowardice you'll see what I mean).
For the topic, id say every dps class requires the most motor skill to play (execution, timing, baiting), except GWFs, they just swing and swing and chunk down your hp with 20k at wills.
I agree that its possible to hunt them down with DOTS and DT etc., but in 99% them are TR´s doing PVP with half baked builds used to have easy game in most cases
Against the "Onebutton-TR" you are nothing more than -->one button<-- also funny is Smokebomb+Courage breaker, or smokebomb+ SE as finisher
a PVP build TR, T negated, is hard to fight, even at lower level at higher level you definitley will suck in most cases
2. so i met this GF (P....) from Black turtle gaming in Dom, he/she is 3,3k GS, 11k DR, 20k power, 13k Arp
and I would like to see your warlock against that class to prove what you say, I really see near no point for a warlock, even having high arp your encounter deal laughable damage like: HG max damage 675 , most damage dealing with pasive procs
its laughable tbh, its 100 bad GF´s and one good player, same with Tr´s
the good one needs one daily that deals >100k damage+one encounter -->anvil 118k crit +bullcharge 60k crit, dead in seconds ?? strategy is just stay away and count until buffs run out?
3. maybe on BIS level you can stand that damageinferno, but until I do not see you in Dom facing one of these BIS GWF with a runner build I doubt its on warlock´s side to decide if he dies , its the GWF that decides
4. HR agree
5. there will pop up silly things more and more
today I met a 2,2k OP in dom, he had this 30%DR ring on top, and a normal barkshield enchant or a greater one, not sure, I casted about1 min non stop on him and the only thing I saw was 0 0 0 0 0 0 most time, no matter if i cc`d him , clueless was caused this
you have to admit that your warlock can´t handle that piercing and bursting inferno in case you go dom solo, not protected by OP or DC, or does your warlock have a dodge?
No sry, this class is not made for PVP and posting the contrary does not make it any better
my rightous DC can handle same classes, same palyer far easier than my warlock can and he is far worse geared
btw just tried fury in PVP and there is no big difference to damnation except that irritating CD popping all time blinding me
CD 6% from al damage for a capstone, not that big
Most other classes can decide matches , warlock can't
This discussion is not about how skilled 1person is, its about how in general this class performs and if skill is needed to succeed
@rardan
you name it, he is a skilled player thats the point
Exactly that is the argument, skilled player meets nub, and thats why he can't speak for an average player in dom
In case a skilled player with a 4k+ toon like him meets 100 bad undergeared GF's or 100 bad TR's (and there are tons of) in Dom this proves nothing, zero
So in case Hamilton beats you in a twingo , you driving a Mustang, do you say Twingo is a "Bad-äss-car"....go buy it
I met him, i met Sophie in dom and its exactly how i say, warlocks do not decide a s.hit in Dom, beside running with a premade and strong teammates
I do all day solo queue never premade, so who do you believe has a more objective sight in the class?
a. the one that runs BIS 4k+ side by side with 4 skilled maxed player in DOM, SH and GG against 2-4k toons or
b.the one that, in case he has bad luck, runs side by side with "Kurt" or "KillerTR" or "Terminator" them wearing 2,5k PVE gear
warlock can perform but is easily countered, by lots of classes (Hunter ,TR, GWF, GF, DC.... cc burst "hasta la vista"
pointless discussion from a onesided way of sight imo
last point to add...if there were no problem with that class in PVP , why is the ratio warlock:TR or warlock:GWF or warlock:OP ---> 1:10?
No its fine sure mates, lol
both of them, facing other skilled 4k classes going solo DOM, have to run like any other warlock
Most people are tired when they hit 2k Ilvl and can not stand against others at 2k ilevel. Of course not for a lock BIS min/max or go home. Once you reach that and get the required skill base to play there is not many classes that can stand against you. Not many people in NW has that type of patience to reach that level while being pwned all the way to the top. They hit 2k -2.8k and say screw it this class sucks and shelve it. It is not true SW is very very very good when geared out. Just not many made it that far. So perhaps it is an issue with scaling?
I am happy most do not play SW the one or two that are good are a beast in pvp to deal with. Had one on my team that face tanked the ENTIRE other team. Just straight up clownin. I was thinking HAMSTER good thing he is on our side. The heals he was throwing out would make a DC jealous.
the Warlocks that runs BIS PVP are all fury, I did not see one Temptation BIS warlock till now, who is it?
and in case you talk about one BIS warlock that queued and stuck with a 2-3k GS group, yes sure he will be a beast, every class that is 4k+ stompes 2-3k
you do not know anything about warlock or PVP right?
outank an OP? whats that? do you even know what you talk about? sure a Op can´t kill a BIS warlock correct, most classes can burst him down in no time or cc him to death, lol, try taht with an BIS OP, really funny post
The heasl a temptation "throws" are that poor in PVE that noone plays temptation tree, tbh at BIS level it can be viable
You definitely have a lot of insight in PVP........on a very low level for sure
I saw enough warlocks in Dom, BIS or not, to say : they have a hard live facing skilled player with equal gear...facing nubs its another story resulting in statements like "omg thats a beast"
Talking about skill and classes i would say: show me a BIS warlock XY against a skilled player like Mjolnir or Gweddry or Dom or Prim (even not BIS at all) or high ranked TR
In case he defeats them you are right and I am wrong
Your arguments are just based on biased perception. Because there are so few warlocks in the game that have played the class to its full potential doesnt and there are so many TRs, does not mean the SW is so bad.
A SW can even kill a BIS HR. Its not easy, but its possible.
Oh, and btw: PVP is not only about kills, its about rotations. Guess what the SW is very good at…