1. HR. Even permastun isn't nearly as easy to play as the whiners think, add in the ridiculously tiny dodge, low damage, low DR, no control break or resist, endlessly nerfed abilities, half-useless feat trees, badly designed gear, bugged abilities like Forest Ghost, long animations, and it's basically in the state TR was before mod 5... 2. SW. There's a reason we don't see many. 3. CW (although really how hard is it to just keep using the absurdly overpowered Repel?) 4. GF (only because everything else is even easier. Hold shift + press 3 buttons. Rinse. Repeat.) 5. DC (everything from this point on is just faceroll) 6. GWF (because it's gear dependent. At BiS it's as absurdly easy to play as OP) 7. TR. Duh. Stealth + 75% deflect + autocrits it shouldn't have + piercing damage + dailies that are easy to abuse + control abilities it shouldn't have. 8. OP. Because it's the king of no-skill annoyance.
GF isn't that easy, remember you also need to keep your shield facing source of damage, and you probably have an important buff skill so you always need to be aware where everyone is so you are always in the right position. But i'd still keep it at 4 in this rank, probably make a case for 3.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Kinda feel the same as above. The only skill I feel I've aquired as an HR is guessing where the invisible TR is and foxing him/her. Apart from that it's just button mashing and a wee bit of placing yourself in the best areas when there's a lot of red about on mid.
Kinda feel the same as above. The only skill I feel I've aquired as an HR is guessing where the invisible TR is and foxing him/her. Apart from that it's just button mashing and a wee bit of placing yourself in the best areas when there's a lot of red about on mid.
True that if you have a premade to support you HAMSTER. You go puging facing a better team as a Hr isent exactly a walk in the park.
Moreover cant say you got it all wrong but that says more about the game and the other classes, becouse frankly in this game Hr has the most micro management and the least survivability together with the least damage. You try anything but cheesy trapper and your in a world of never ending hurt fo sure.....
(and yea the gear matters where some classes shine more at low lvls and some more at high lvls as gwf and SW are good example of)
I am actually mr.soloQ. I don't hate premades so much as not enjoy them. A well matched premade vs.premade is more a war of attrition and strategic rotations of toon around the nodes, fairly tightly controlled via teamspeak. I prefer to run about like a headless chicken and shoot arrows at random stuff. I do enough hard work in rl to wish to do anymore in the virtual.
My HR is more built around kill quick and run away if need be. I pug almost all the time, or run with a friend/guildie, very rarely with a premade, and tbh. wouldn't want to handicap a full on serious absolute premade anyway. Sad truth, HRs as they are right now, have very little to offer in top end matches, our control is meagre, and damage pitiful.
I like the unpredictable nature of pug dom matches, the best ones for me are when each side has a pair of good toons, and some random pugs. In that situation a good player can carry a team to victory, or defeat. And the match doesn't take forever.
If I do end up in a premade in dom, I know pretty much I'll be stuck on mid with a DC or an OP the whole match pinning people off node when my partner has bashed them out, eeking the blue bar round the circle, or stopping the red. Not my idea of fun.
Skill-wise... maybe I've just played my HR so long that it has become second nature. There are a few HRs better than me, not loads of them, but still I get my but handed to me quite often.
Define "skill", because i do not consider "skill" things like "press 1 -> 100k damage S.E." or "QER tab QER tab QER tab..." from GWF or "Tab -> KC -> Crescendo -> AoD -> Bullrush", etc.
I am actually mr.soloQ. I don't hate premades so much as not enjoy them. A well matched premade vs.premade is more a war of attrition and strategic rotations of toon around the nodes, fairly tightly controlled via teamspeak. I prefer to run about like a headless chicken and shoot arrows at random stuff. I do enough hard work in rl to wish to do anymore in the virtual.
You just summarized the reason I'm not the biggest fan of premades! I find solo queue more challenging and less time consuming, where victory hinges more on you. Besides, immortal OP DCs ruined it for me. Premades were fun back during mod 2~3, when DCs were your lifeline so you HAD TO PROTECT them, not say AMEN to Gift of Faith.
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed. Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long. so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
I can't beleave someone even dare to making such pool. And u all dare to think and doubt which class require most of skill to pvp? Sw is the one who require most of skills.. And there is no otherway. Why there are not so many SW's in pvp?? Because if u want pvp with SW either u have nerves of steel or don't have them at all. No dodge/shift mechanic, no decent control and freaky slow casting and don't mention annoying TAB/curse depending. U have to curse then hit encounter and usually hit same encounter again to trigger some effect.. SHow me any other class which have to do it???
Here some dudes write that play with HR is hard due some stuff for Dodge/shift mechanic.. Well SW don;t have at all.. U eat all incoming hits no matter if u shifting or not...
There is no question that SW require most skills when come either pvp or pve. it where OK in mod 5, but since mod 6 its screwed class.
So if u seen Sw in pvp and he fights good enough, thats mean that dude either have more better gear than others or he is really mastered his character....
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Any purely melee focused class. In my 12 years of mmo - experience, i came to the conclusion that playing as a ranged / caster class, is a sign of fear and weakness (in PvP, at least). Range grants a certain amount of 'safety / safe zone' before actually engaging in combat, already (The same can be said about stealth.). I like to use the example of bringing a gun to a fist fight, which is the same thing.
Thread should just be what was the most skill-based meta of every class.
CW: the meatball generation TR: early mods' jump DF DC: divine exaltion tank/healer GWF: could be right now HR: always had something broken to put a bad image despite the class being "aimed at skilled players," said devs OP: NEVER! and never will. SW: current meta GF: mods 1, 2 or 3
If you say we compare classes on BiS level and want to tell folks all time that GWF is a victim class that requires most skill and is hardest to play I come to the conclusion that you surely did not master that class GWF has biggest selfbuffs, highest mobility ,most damage, great defence and lots if CC immunity Only class that counters it is TR AS some ppl said GWF at BIS can stack up to 170 k HP Every BiS GWF i met in Dom was far away from being a victim.....far far away...one more far The GWF community suffered in mod 5 I know that , the dark time, in mod 5 my warlock could deal with that class most time In mod 7 its completely changed and noone can tell its a weak class that needs most skill
GF twoshot ppl in Dom if proper build max Arp+ power double Mark and kill stuff in seconds
Obviously Oathbound Paladin. Lets see you try and stay and alive with 6-8 dudes pounding on you! :P
I miss the days when I could do that in my sleep on my GWF. They could only take me down enough to pop unstopable and then that would heal me right back up to full plus temp hit points to boot. The lol of a CW sitting there blasting away while you was capping a node or a TR throwing knifes at your head only to pop unstopable and it was like they never even touched you. Then they great defenders that would come in (like Steamroller) claiming that Sent IV was too week and lacked survivability and those who did not buy into that story just shook there head like yep dude lost it trying to save his bread and butter from getting nerfed. This is the problem we have.People run bugged builds and LIE about them being bugged. They are very very adamant on the forums that the class is too weak when the truth is if a class can pound you and you just stand there pushing one button the Tab button chances are that build is kinda broken.
Yet what do I know. I only been a playing since Beta and seen all kinds of crazy junk in this game.
ME I do run some bad builds mostly in regards to OP/DC now. Sometimes I choose unpopular builds no one runs fo a challenge. I do twink and I do that in hopes enough people complain so it gets fixed. However I noticed an emerging patern. The Twink community since I started twinking has grown 1000 fold.Not only do they twink they also help out new players with advice and help. It is a great community in my eyes. It even has the most "balanced" of the PVP in comparison to end game pvp. Tells me a lot of PVP problems are in regards to scaling.
Yes. To ruin new players' low level PVP experiences. Low level PVP was always for leveling your toon and learning your class, now it is a playground of bullies with full rank 12s.lol
Bullying? You must have this confused with another game. Low level pvp is 10000 times more balanced than end game pvp. Most people who twink also help new players. Unless you think enjoying a balanced pvp experience and helping people build and tactics bullying then kudos for you. I guess we all define what certain things mean to us. People gave up balance at end game now stay at lower brackets. This is a direct result of poor balancing/scaling issues.
Is there douches? Yes no lie. There is. However I see someone I know there class inside and out I am giving them advice on how to fully utilize there class and win no matter if they are on the other side or not. Even partying with them after the match if they really want the help. You will find there is more like me in the twink community than douches and I started out trying to make people complain.
I know there is more like me out there because I start a class I do not know really well always someone in the twinking community offering me help to better understand and optimize my playstyle. So put that in your pipe in smoke it this is Neverwinter dude look at which game you are posting on next time.
As long as you do not show up with T Negation, T feytouched, lolset, axebeak mount it could be challenging Otherwise it is in deed a spoiler to most new player that try to get some skill in PVP, but on the other hand facing 4k toons is much worse. imo the twink community doesn´t exist in that form, probabaly lots of skilled player downgraded to have some more challenge in PVP Some player keep on pugging with their maxed out toons and stomp all day, not thinking one second about challenge or fairness. It never ever happended to me ingame that a PVP player mailed me in game to give some advise about char playstyle and features to use and by sure no maxed one, they keep their secrets, if they got some, except some honourable player I saw in forum like Icy etc. tough I did wrote to several warlocks ingame seeing them doing PVP without BT offhand feat or running arround with zero deflection etc.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
1. HR. Even permastun isn't nearly as easy to play as the whiners think, add in the ridiculously tiny dodge, low damage, low DR, no control break or resist, endlessly nerfed abilities, half-useless feat trees, badly designed gear, bugged abilities like Forest Ghost, long animations, and it's basically in the state TR was before mod 5... 2. SW. There's a reason we don't see many. 3. CW (although really how hard is it to just keep using the absurdly overpowered Repel?) 4. GF (only because everything else is even easier. Hold shift + press 3 buttons. Rinse. Repeat.) 5. DC (everything from this point on is just faceroll) 6. GWF (because it's gear dependent. At BiS it's as absurdly easy to play as OP) 7. TR. Duh. Stealth + 75% deflect + autocrits it shouldn't have + piercing damage + dailies that are easy to abuse + control abilities it shouldn't have. 8. OP. Because it's the king of no-skill annoyance.
GF isn't that easy, remember you also need to keep your shield facing source of damage, and you probably have an important buff skill so you always need to be aware where everyone is so you are always in the right position. But i'd still keep it at 4 in this rank, probably make a case for 3.
Oh, I forgot. It's "Bind hardtargetlock to mouse button, hold shift + 3 buttons, rinse, repeat."
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed. Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long. so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
Victim mentality GWFs are hilarious. As far as I can tell, 95% of the damage I take from GWFs is from them being vaguely somewhere in the area swinging their overcompensating weapons around blindly (and enormously faster than, say, CW or HR animations). They have never been required to have their (ludicrous, e-peen) weapons make contact with another toon the way, say, even a TR has to on its non-auto hit abilities. You barely have to tickle them to activate Unstoppable. Then, of course, when you do beat them, they can simply activate another control immunity and run away, which a class that should be weighed down by its armor has no business doing. GWF has never been anything but a lure for button mashers with credit cards.
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed. Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long. so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
Victim mentality GWFs are hilarious. As far as I can tell, 95% of the damage I take from GWFs is from them being vaguely somewhere in the area swinging their overcompensating weapons around blindly (and enormously faster than, say, CW or HR animations). They have never been required to have their (ludicrous, e-peen) weapons make contact with another toon the way, say, even a TR has to on its non-auto hit abilities. You barely have to tickle them to activate Unstoppable. Then, of course, when you do beat them, they can simply activate another control immunity and run away, which a class that should be weighed down by its armor has no business doing. GWF has never been anything but a lure for button mashers with credit cards.
Wow i bet u play a CW and are pretty bad at it aswell lol.
I have only low level (il 2-3k) experience of all classes, mostly played with sw. Hardest class to play at that level is clearly sw, easiest gf and op.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited November 2015
ANY class without fey-lostmauth. Play like this and we will see your skills. A perfect example : control wizard what is storm spell at the moment without the vegeance? just an extra hit which is not anymore critical hit. Master of flame at the moment has a lot better feats but no they dont work good with vegeance so spellstorm mage.
its by sure lolset feytouched and negation, axbeak mount on top
i can tell, without lolset its a pain to play warlock in PVP, 200% worse, having that axbeakmount out of lockbox its like having 9 rank 10th darks on top "NINE !!!!!!" more than my opponent, redicules isn´t it effect is my dots do kill stuff stripping all that broken c.rap, nothing is left than a weak toon in PVP no argument to claim being skilled lieing dead on the ground all time
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beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
I play CW and voted SW. If could have 2nd vote, It would be HR.
its by sure lolset feytouched and negation, axbeak mount on top
i can tell, without lolset its a pain to play warlock in PVP, 200% worse, having that axbeakmount out of lockbox its like having 9 rank 10th darks on top "NINE !!!!!!" more than my opponent, redicules isn´t it effect is my dots do kill stuff stripping all that broken c.rap, nothing is left than a weak toon in PVP no argument to claim being skilled lieing dead on the ground all time
its by sure lolset feytouched and negation, axbeak mount on top
i can tell, without lolset its a pain to play warlock in PVP, 200% worse, having that axbeakmount out of lockbox its like having 9 rank 10th darks on top "NINE !!!!!!" more than my opponent, redicules isn´t it effect is my dots do kill stuff stripping all that broken c.rap, nothing is left than a weak toon in PVP no argument to claim being skilled lieing dead on the ground all time
better ask for buffs instead play broken.
it`s been asked for buffs for a long time, I do not care about that anymore tbh i take broken things if they come and go and I am rational enough to know that it is never ever going to happen that classes get balanced in this game as long as PVE and PVP are thrown in one pit 8k lifesteal stronghold boon rank 10, what will PVP be like if everyone is running these ammounts of stats? this game is like a train that is runnnig forward even losing one wheel after the other instead of slowing down a bit, also lost some wagons with paying customers, fuel is getting rare tough but " Two accelerators, no brakes" (Alice Cooper)
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed. Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long. so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
Victim mentality GWFs are hilarious. As far as I can tell, 95% of the damage I take from GWFs is from them being vaguely somewhere in the area swinging their overcompensating weapons around blindly (and enormously faster than, say, CW or HR animations). They have never been required to have their (ludicrous, e-peen) weapons make contact with another toon the way, say, even a TR has to on its non-auto hit abilities. You barely have to tickle them to activate Unstoppable. Then, of course, when you do beat them, they can simply activate another control immunity and run away, which a class that should be weighed down by its armor has no business doing. GWF has never been anything but a lure for button mashers with credit cards.
Wow i bet u play a CW and are pretty bad at it aswell lol.
Actually, no. However, your lack of basic capitalization, grammar and even spacing, combined with your use of the always persuasive 'lol,' have convinced me that GWF players are a supremely intelligent bunch who must therefore be drawn to the class because their superior brains require such a daunting challenge in order to be diverted. Well done, sir!
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed. Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long. so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
Victim mentality GWFs are hilarious. As far as I can tell, 95% of the damage I take from GWFs is from them being vaguely somewhere in the area swinging their overcompensating weapons around blindly (and enormously faster than, say, CW or HR animations). They have never been required to have their (ludicrous, e-peen) weapons make contact with another toon the way, say, even a TR has to on its non-auto hit abilities. You barely have to tickle them to activate Unstoppable. Then, of course, when you do beat them, they can simply activate another control immunity and run away, which a class that should be weighed down by its armor has no business doing. GWF has never been anything but a lure for button mashers with credit cards.
Wow i bet u play a CW and are pretty bad at it aswell lol.
Actually, no. However, your lack of basic capitalization, grammar and even spacing, combined with your use of the always persuasive 'lol,' have convinced me that GWF players are a supremely intelligent bunch who must therefore be drawn to the class because their superior brains require such a daunting challenge in order to be diverted. Well done, sir!
I play all classes. but you coming to the forums and bash on everyone that plays GWF and telling them they lack IQ is just plain stupid. And no, english is my third language so i dont speak it as well as Americans. So please let me know what class you are playing Mr smartguy..
Comments
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Moreover cant say you got it all wrong but that says more about the game and the other classes, becouse frankly in this game Hr has the most micro management and the least survivability together with the least damage. You try anything but cheesy trapper and your in a world of never ending hurt fo sure.....
(and yea the gear matters where some classes shine more at low lvls and some more at high lvls as gwf and SW are good example of)
My HR is more built around kill quick and run away if need be. I pug almost all the time, or run with a friend/guildie, very rarely with a premade, and tbh. wouldn't want to handicap a full on serious absolute premade anyway. Sad truth, HRs as they are right now, have very little to offer in top end matches, our control is meagre, and damage pitiful.
I like the unpredictable nature of pug dom matches, the best ones for me are when each side has a pair of good toons, and some random pugs. In that situation a good player can carry a team to victory, or defeat. And the match doesn't take forever.
If I do end up in a premade in dom, I know pretty much I'll be stuck on mid with a DC or an OP the whole match pinning people off node when my partner has bashed them out, eeking the blue bar round the circle, or stopping the red. Not my idea of fun.
Skill-wise... maybe I've just played my HR so long that it has become second nature. There are a few HRs better than me, not loads of them, but still I get my but handed to me quite often.
Fixed it for you
simple reason all our skills, got a high Fail-Rate, i would say around -85% of all encounter used always Failed.
Mostly Enemies players have a definitely much better dodge skills and our skill-Animation is way too Long.
so basically we have a 15% chance to hit enemies.
Compared to CW/HR/DC etc. nealery every Ranged class have a 100% hit Chance-
TR got around 200% löl with stealth is it more than Guaranteed! to land a Hit.
I can't beleave someone even dare to making such pool. And u all dare to think and doubt which class require most of skill to pvp?
Sw is the one who require most of skills.. And there is no otherway. Why there are not so many SW's in pvp??
Because if u want pvp with SW either u have nerves of steel or don't have them at all. No dodge/shift mechanic, no decent control and freaky slow casting and don't mention annoying TAB/curse depending. U have to curse then hit encounter and usually hit same encounter again to trigger some effect.. SHow me any other class which have to do it???
Here some dudes write that play with HR is hard due some stuff for Dodge/shift mechanic.. Well SW don;t have at all.. U eat all incoming hits no matter if u shifting or not...
There is no question that SW require most skills when come either pvp or pve. it where OK in mod 5, but since mod 6 its screwed class.
So if u seen Sw in pvp and he fights good enough, thats mean that dude either have more better gear than others or he is really mastered his character....
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
So: GWF, GF.
CW: the meatball generation
TR: early mods' jump DF
DC: divine exaltion tank/healer
GWF: could be right now
HR: always had something broken to put a bad image despite the class being "aimed at skilled players," said devs
OP: NEVER! and never will.
SW: current meta
GF: mods 1, 2 or 3
imo.
GWF has biggest selfbuffs, highest mobility ,most damage, great defence and lots if CC immunity
Only class that counters it is TR
AS some ppl said GWF at BIS can stack up to 170 k HP
Every BiS GWF i met in Dom was far away from being a victim.....far far away...one more far
The GWF community suffered in mod 5 I know that , the dark time, in mod 5 my warlock could deal with that class most time
In mod 7 its completely changed and noone can tell its a weak class that needs most skill
GF twoshot ppl in Dom if proper build max Arp+ power double Mark and kill stuff in seconds
Yet what do I know. I only been a playing since Beta and seen all kinds of crazy junk in this game.
ME I do run some bad builds mostly in regards to OP/DC now. Sometimes I choose unpopular builds no one runs fo a challenge. I do twink and I do that in hopes enough people complain so it gets fixed. However I noticed an emerging patern. The Twink community since I started twinking has grown 1000 fold.Not only do they twink they also help out new players with advice and help. It is a great community in my eyes. It even has the most "balanced" of the PVP in comparison to end game pvp. Tells me a lot of PVP problems are in regards to scaling.
Is there douches? Yes no lie. There is. However I see someone I know there class inside and out I am giving them advice on how to fully utilize there class and win no matter if they are on the other side or not. Even partying with them after the match if they really want the help. You will find there is more like me in the twink community than douches and I started out trying to make people complain.
I know there is more like me out there because I start a class I do not know really well always someone in the twinking community offering me help to better understand and optimize my playstyle. So put that in your pipe in smoke it this is Neverwinter dude look at which game you are posting on next time.
Otherwise it is in deed a spoiler to most new player that try to get some skill in PVP, but on the other hand facing 4k toons is much worse.
imo the twink community doesn´t exist in that form, probabaly lots of skilled player downgraded to have some more challenge in PVP
Some player keep on pugging with their maxed out toons and stomp all day, not thinking one second about challenge or fairness.
It never ever happended to me ingame that a PVP player mailed me in game to give some advise about char playstyle and features to use and by sure no maxed one, they keep their secrets, if they got some, except some honourable player I saw in forum like Icy etc.
tough I did wrote to several warlocks ingame seeing them doing PVP without BT offhand feat or running arround with zero deflection etc.
A perfect example : control wizard what is storm spell at the moment without the vegeance? just an extra hit which is not anymore critical hit.
Master of flame at the moment has a lot better feats but no they dont work good with vegeance so spellstorm mage.
i can tell, without lolset its a pain to play warlock in PVP, 200% worse,
having that axbeakmount out of lockbox its like having 9 rank 10th darks on top
"NINE !!!!!!" more than my opponent, redicules isn´t it
effect is my dots do kill stuff
stripping all that broken c.rap, nothing is left than a weak toon in PVP
no argument to claim being skilled lieing dead on the ground all time
If could have 2nd vote, It would be HR.
i take broken things if they come and go
and I am rational enough to know that it is never ever going to happen that classes get balanced in this game as long as PVE and PVP are thrown in one pit
8k lifesteal stronghold boon rank 10, what will PVP be like if everyone is running these ammounts of stats?
this game is like a train that is runnnig forward even losing one wheel after the other instead of slowing down a bit, also lost some wagons with paying customers, fuel is getting rare tough but " Two accelerators, no brakes" (Alice Cooper)