What planet you on, the player base has being dropping for the past few months due to various issues the devs either failed to resolve or took to long to do so. If you think your in the majority saying the game is now better you my friend have lost the plot!
By your statement I'm being lumped in there because I utilized the leadership astral diamond generation to equip my, still poorly equipped, level 66 Trickster Rogue.
If the game dies because of positive action then so be it, at least it won't be a festering heap where only selfish people who look out for themselves and no-one else are the only ones being successful.
The issue at hand here is, or at least since I've been playing, is that everything is dealt with inconsistently. The Vote to kick issue took months and months to fix. They went through stupid change after stupid change to get it fixed and I know for me, I stopped doing dungeons.
They follow up that debacle with an attempt at recovering the economy, which they allowed to get this way to begin with, repaired by nerfing a profession that was producing a currency. Instead of looking at the root of the problem, accounts with 50 characters on them, they looked at the symptom, Leadership. Then their adjustment was to remove the currency and replace it with experience. If you're going to remove involving things that people have put money / zen into, start by restricting the character slots to an amount that is actually playable. No person on this planet has enough time to play 50 characters, I don't care who you are. Reduce it back to 10.
Oh and for those of you saying it doesn't solve the fact that they can create more accounts, that's not relevant. How many accounts someone has never will be a controllable factor in gaming.
Thats flawed logic. As a consumer I don't HAVE to give change a chance. If I don't like the change, I can take my money elsewhere. Just like many of the people who've been outspoken about the utilitarian approach here have said. They might leave. They might not. But time will tell, and if a so called "positive" change ends the game, then is it really a positive change?
I've said before, and I'll say it again. I am not for or against the change. What I am, however, is confused by the change considering there was zero discussion about it actually being implemented on the XBox. I don't have time to read every single item of information that is posted about this game, and those saying, "Well you should have seen it coming when they did it to the PC," are just rationalizing the fact that we don't have any of the same functionality as the PC, nor do I play on it, so why would I track it?
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Hey guys, I get people are super-passionate on both sides about the changes, but let's see if we can have this discussion without resorting to insulting each other. If you can't post without saying something mean about another poster, you're better off just not posting. Thanks.
At it's peak, Neverwinter on Steam had 14,822 in 2013. Today it's peak is 3,777, which is a 74.518 % decrease in what we'll call a two year period (December 2013 - October 2015) Information obtained from steamcharts.com
Hey guys, I get people are super-passionate on both sides about the changes, but let's see if we can have this discussion without resorting to insulting each other. If you can't post without saying something mean about another poster, you're better off just not posting. Thanks.
Fair point after all its only a game and we all have different opinions, Cactus soz
If the game dies because of positive action then so be it, at least it won't be a festering heap where only selfish people who look out for themselves and no-one else are the only ones being successful.
This is completely inaccurate.....I was highly successful in mod5 while doing nothing but positive things to help the overall player base. Now I find myself in the same spot as when I began the game where it felt like I had to scratch and claw for every single AD I could find. Sure there are always going to be different ways to earn RAD's, however they're no longer in the ways I choose to enjoy this game.
I wonder how many of the PC leavers transferred to XBox as I've seen a few XB players say they used to play on PC.
Yes NW does have some issues, the biggest ones being the huge amount of time it takes to correct issues and the lack of communication regarding progress on said issues.
But it is a good game. I don't particularly like the free2play model in general (I'd prefer to buy the game up front and not be arm twisted into payments for necessary things like bags) but that's how 'free' games fund themselves.
They are always working on new content, they eventually get around to fixing most problems & I like the combat methods. To the point where I'm on the game every day.
I'm not really one for singing Cryptics praises but on the whole it's a decent game. On the Leadership front though - have you ever played a game that let you generate raw currency from something like 'professions'?? No, me neither. To be fair they should've never introduced it, but hindsight has 20/20 vision (as they say).
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
At it's peak, Neverwinter on Steam had 14,822 in 2013. Today it's peak is 3,777, which is a 74.518 % decrease in what we'll call a two year period (December 2013 - October 2015) Information obtained from steamcharts.com
Try visiting steam Neverwinter player base, and then google how many players used to play on the PC, Mr Minority!
Or even better still do that poll, I dare ya!
that doesnt really tell a person anything. a game will always lose a significant amount of players in the first year or two. it's natural. the figures we'd need to see would be the numbers directly before an update and the numbers in the weeks trailing that.
I have to assume as a company they aren't stupid and if they were indeed losing a significant amount of the population (other than the spammers they're' trying to weed out) they'd make some sort of follow up change to get people back. they are in the business of making money not losing it and if they were indeed losing money (losing your player base equals losing money) we would be seeing more change. end of story.
one has to assume that the player base remained stable or with the in limits they were hoping for. (one has to assume there was a very large spam factor they were trying to eliminate) on pc. too early to tell for xbox I think.
I ... On the Leadership front though - have you ever played a game that let you generate raw currency from something like 'professions'?? No, me neither. To be fair they should've never introduced it, but hindsight has 20/20 vision (as they say).
A constant flow of new AD needs to be produced for the ADX to work properly (250-280AD/Zen), since that currency "vanishes" in many transactions in NW, and if there is less AD being produced than what is needed, the ADX rate will show that by having a low rate of AD:Zen.
And since the exchange rate on XB1 have been on the low side since launch, there has actually been to little AD produced, even with Leadership RAD in place...
A virtual economy like the this, is heavily dependent on the amount that of AD that gets produced daily, and with the daily rate, 140 AD/Zen, that is a clear indication that not enough AD gets out in circulation.
So if you had understood the basic principles of this virtual economy, you would have known that Leadership was/is a very good way of getting AD in to the economy...
Since they'll never put RAD back in Leadership, they need to put Thaumaturgic & Resonance resources in its place (or Residuum?), but that needs to be done now.
At it's peak, Neverwinter on Steam had 14,822 in 2013. Today it's peak is 3,777, which is a 74.518 % decrease in what we'll call a two year period (December 2013 - October 2015) Information obtained from steamcharts.com
Try visiting steam Neverwinter player base, and then google how many players used to play on the PC, Mr Minority!
Or even better still do that poll, I dare ya!
that doesnt really tell a person anything. a game will always lose a significant amount of players in the first year or two. it's natural. the figures we'd need to see would be the numbers directly before an update and the numbers in the weeks trailing that.
I have to assume as a company they aren't stupid and if they were indeed losing a significant amount of the population (other than the spammers they're' trying to weed out) they'd make some sort of follow up change to get people back. they are in the business of making money not losing it and if they were indeed losing money (losing your player base equals losing money) we would be seeing more change. end of story.
one has to assume that the player base remained stable or with the in limits they were hoping for. (one has to assume there was a very large spam factor they were trying to eliminate) on pc. too early to tell for xbox I think.
report from the PC side: + "goldseller" spam is still going on in PE every minute, no changes
+ professional botters moved their bots from Neverdeath Graveyard to Pirates' Skyhold and Ebon Downs, but also no changes in their numbers overall
+ Steam Charts, player numbers increased with Strongholds by 15.65%, but within last month the numbers went down by 18.08%, and right now we're looking at another decrease of 4.60%
+ while the rAD income has decreased considerably, most fix AD expenses weren't changed yet, and the removal of rAD from leadership is live for a month now
Many players on the PC side are waiting for the other AD changes, but we haven't heard a word from the Devs about it...
Hey guys, I get people are super-passionate on both sides about the changes, but let's see if we can have this discussion without resorting to insulting each other. If you can't post without saying something mean about another poster, you're better off just not posting. Thanks.
^^^
Guardian Fighter: SM Conqueror
[]Full Metal Witch[] 4149 TiL Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best" "Nobody does it better" #TLO BiS
So if you had understood the basic principles of this virtual economy, you would have known that Leadership was/is a very good way of getting AD in to the economy...
@mightyeriksson please don't make the mistake of assuming that because somebody takes a different view to you that they are stupid.
My view is that as income generation comes down in certain quarters, so will prices in both the AH and Zen exchange. Cryptic have understood the change and responded by greatly reducing the cost of GMOPS and making many of the refining stones available through quests and hopefully leadership, plus a small increase in the amount players can earn through dailies.
People charge what others can afford and wealth is a relative concept - not an absolute.
I don't agree with your position but I wouldn't think for a moment of trying to insinuate you're an idiot for taking that position.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
@thejawlives I think I could be OK with the changes if the relative costs were also reduced. Remove the AD generation through leadership -- fine. But the way these changes were announced and sold to PC players was that not enough people were earning AD through leadership and that the devs wanted more AD generation in the game. That doesn't pass the smell test for me. I think this will result in less AD generation.
Before these changes, costs to advance companions were already prohibitively high for a lot of players. It takes time to work through dailies with one character while also managing bags, running encounters, dungeon runs, skirmishes, whatever. Just doesn't feel possible to do that now on multiple characters without spending lots of real life money to simply advance.
I ... On the Leadership front though - have you ever played a game that let you generate raw currency from something like 'professions'?? No, me neither. To be fair they should've never introduced it, but hindsight has 20/20 vision (as they say).
A constant flow of new AD needs to be produced for the ADX to work properly (250-280AD/Zen), since that currency "vanishes" in many transactions in NW, and if there is less AD being produced than what is needed, the ADX rate will show that by having a low rate of AD:Zen.
And since the exchange rate on XB1 have been on the low side since launch, there has actually been to little AD produced, even with Leadership RAD in place...
A virtual economy like the this, is heavily dependent on the amount that of AD that gets produced daily, and with the daily rate, 140 AD/Zen, that is a clear indication that not enough AD gets out in circulation.
So if you had understood the basic principles of this virtual economy, you would have known that Leadership was/is a very good way of getting AD in to the economy...
Since they'll never put RAD back in Leadership, they need to put Thaumaturgic & Resonance resources in its place (or Residuum?), but that needs to be done now.
It's true... I am not even thinking about converting any of my Zen to AD right now. Why would I? The price keeps dropping as AD isn't being generated at reasonable levels. I can't count on AD to go up any time soon, so my zen will remain Zen for a while. It doesn't do much to stimulate the economy, that's for sure.
Aelwyn | SS Renegade CW | Lv 70 | ilvl 3029
Eos Sindhalyn | Annointed haste DC | Lv 70 | ilvl 2500
While Zen price may change in a months to come, for the next few weeks I would count on it getting down to 125-135 level. So you are actually losing by not selling your Zen now. I only keep as much as I need for wards and ToS keys.
Personally i consider myself a casual, i play this a bit each day but im lev 66, my gear score is 1351... I never had anything to refine more than my daily limit, i was depending on LEADERSHIP to get AD and since the change i can't make AD outside praying and ocasionally a normal dungeon during event...
I don't play PVP, hate this in a game like this.
So yeah, GMOP has been reduced... yeah.. but i merely do 2000 AD by praying and thats about it.
I should be able to make AD by Skirmishes... oups no ... there is none avalaible for lev 66 I should be able to make some AD by doing quest... oups no , only gives HAMSTER gold that is useless beside buying injury kit and potions...
Stop hiding the fact people that they only made this change so people would buy zen to convert them to AD, thus giving the dev more money....
While Zen price may change in months to come, for the next few weeks I would count on it getting down to 125-135 level. So you are actually losing by not selling your Zen now. I only keep as much as I need for wards and ToS keys.
Wrong. I would lose if I sell my zen at a loss. I will convert more AD to zen when I feel like we hit a floor. I will sell down the road at a profit and I will earn. I do not lose anything in this scenario.
So, for now, I keep my coins in the value they hold and spend only if I need to spend. I am a very patient person. I was pretty mediocre pre Mod 5, but I am starting to get some amazing gear in Mod 6 because I have been playing a long game. Patience, stubbornness and smart moves will pay off. Selling at a loss because the market falls is to lose, but many people will do it.
Aelwyn | SS Renegade CW | Lv 70 | ilvl 3029
Eos Sindhalyn | Annointed haste DC | Lv 70 | ilvl 2500
@mightyeriksson please don't make the mistake of assuming that because somebody takes a different view to you that they are stupid.
My view is that as income generation comes down in certain quarters, so will prices in both the AH and Zen exchange. Cryptic have understood the change and responded by greatly reducing the cost of GMOPS and making many of the refining stones available through quests and hopefully leadership, plus a small increase in the amount players can earn through dailies.
People charge what others can afford and wealth is a relative concept - not an absolute.
I don't agree with your position but I wouldn't think for a moment of trying to insinuate you're an idiot for taking that position.
Well, the actions taken are on the right path, (one of) the problem is that they dropped RAD production too soon...
The problem is that the XB1 doesn't have as much AD in it's economy that's needed, so dropping the prices on GMOP (and lots of other things) while keeping Leadership and hourly events for lets say 4-6 months more, would have improved the state of the ADX significantly.
The PC got these changes after almost 2 years, that was perhaps a year too late, but they had many, many more issues there, with exploits and bots.
I don't really know why they rmoved the Dungeon and Skirmish RAD reward, they could easily have ran both the old and the new system concurrently
I would lose if I sell my zen at a loss. I will convert more AD to zen when I feel like we hit a floor. I will sell down the road at a profit and I will earn. I do not lose anything in this scenario.
I'm not sure where does the loss come from. Did you buy a lot of Zen what it was 200 or even 300?
I tend to watch Zen very closely, and even day trade it - just to catch that +10 AD swing and leverage it over 1000-2000 Zen I may have sitting in my account at any given time. For the last few weeks the rate was declining quite steadily, so I prefer to keep money in AD to avoid loss. During big events and when new mods ship there is usually an temporary spike in Zen value, so at these time I keep money in Zen.
I wouldn't count on the rate "returning to normal". It's not going to get back to any particular historic values since the game is ever changing and new normal will be established every time new things happen.
But anyway, don't think that I'm trying to convince you to sell your Zen. Storing it in the currency you are going to spend it in has the least risks.
I may not know much as you guy do with the economy thing, every game i played the cash meant nothing, like Diablo or PSO back then. But one thing i can say, turning off the income source for most "caual" is a bad move, a really bad one... and a greedy one... Cause its obvious by that they want people to buy Zen and convert them... This game has already too much stuff that need to be buy with real money..
Comments
What exactly have they done that is positive that you seem to think hasn't pushed gamers away? Your in the minority the coming months will prove this.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
They follow up that debacle with an attempt at recovering the economy, which they allowed to get this way to begin with, repaired by nerfing a profession that was producing a currency. Instead of looking at the root of the problem, accounts with 50 characters on them, they looked at the symptom, Leadership. Then their adjustment was to remove the currency and replace it with experience. If you're going to remove involving things that people have put money / zen into, start by restricting the character slots to an amount that is actually playable. No person on this planet has enough time to play 50 characters, I don't care who you are. Reduce it back to 10.
Oh and for those of you saying it doesn't solve the fact that they can create more accounts, that's not relevant. How many accounts someone has never will be a controllable factor in gaming.
LGPG Alliance
Reagents of Death - Leader
CW - Phoenix lvl 70 4034 (Main)
GF - Spectre lvl 70 4012 (Main)
GWF - Ice lvl 70 4010 (Main)
SW - Zor lvl 70 3230 (Main)
OP - Box lvl 70 3002 (Retired)
PS4
Look Good Play Good
GWF - Ice lvl 70 3875 (Main)
GF - Spectre lvl 70 2669 (Alt)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
Or even better still do that poll, I dare ya!
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
I can't seem to find any numbers on the PC.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCHpxPsGP_kfPXaW622qSXyA
Yes NW does have some issues, the biggest ones being the huge amount of time it takes to correct issues and the lack of communication regarding progress on said issues.
But it is a good game. I don't particularly like the free2play model in general (I'd prefer to buy the game up front and not be arm twisted into payments for necessary things like bags) but that's how 'free' games fund themselves.
They are always working on new content, they eventually get around to fixing most problems & I like the combat methods. To the point where I'm on the game every day.
I'm not really one for singing Cryptics praises but on the whole it's a decent game.
On the Leadership front though - have you ever played a game that let you generate raw currency from something like 'professions'?? No, me neither. To be fair they should've never introduced it, but hindsight has 20/20 vision (as they say).
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I have to assume as a company they aren't stupid and if they were indeed losing a significant amount of the population (other than the spammers they're' trying to weed out) they'd make some sort of follow up change to get people back. they are in the business of making money not losing it and if they were indeed losing money (losing your player base equals losing money) we would be seeing more change. end of story.
one has to assume that the player base remained stable or with the in limits they were hoping for. (one has to assume there was a very large spam factor they were trying to eliminate) on pc. too early to tell for xbox I think.
And since the exchange rate on XB1 have been on the low side since launch, there has actually been to little AD produced, even with Leadership RAD in place...
A virtual economy like the this, is heavily dependent on the amount that of AD that gets produced daily, and with the daily rate, 140 AD/Zen, that is a clear indication that not enough AD gets out in circulation.
So if you had understood the basic principles of this virtual economy, you would have known that Leadership was/is a very good way of getting AD in to the economy...
Since they'll never put RAD back in Leadership, they need to put Thaumaturgic & Resonance resources in its place (or Residuum?), but that needs to be done now.
+ "goldseller" spam is still going on in PE every minute, no changes
+ professional botters moved their bots from Neverdeath Graveyard to Pirates' Skyhold and Ebon Downs, but also no changes in their numbers overall
+ Steam Charts, player numbers increased with Strongholds by 15.65%, but within last month the numbers went down by 18.08%, and right now we're looking at another decrease of 4.60%
+ while the rAD income has decreased considerably, most fix AD expenses weren't changed yet, and the removal of rAD from leadership is live for a month now
Many players on the PC side are waiting for the other AD changes, but we haven't heard a word from the Devs about it...
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Before these changes, costs to advance companions were already prohibitively high for a lot of players. It takes time to work through dailies with one character while also managing bags, running encounters, dungeon runs, skirmishes, whatever. Just doesn't feel possible to do that now on multiple characters without spending lots of real life money to simply advance.
It's true... I am not even thinking about converting any of my Zen to AD right now. Why would I? The price keeps dropping as AD isn't being generated at reasonable levels. I can't count on AD to go up any time soon, so my zen will remain Zen for a while. It doesn't do much to stimulate the economy, that's for sure.
Eos Sindhalyn | Annointed haste DC | Lv 70 | ilvl 2500
Lily Firegrass | buffbot Iron Vanguard GF | Lv 70 | ilvl 2685
Guild: The Misfit Toys - We are recruiting active players
I don't play PVP, hate this in a game like this.
So yeah, GMOP has been reduced... yeah.. but i merely do 2000 AD by praying and thats about it.
I should be able to make AD by Skirmishes... oups no ... there is none avalaible for lev 66
I should be able to make some AD by doing quest... oups no , only gives HAMSTER gold that is useless beside buying injury kit and potions...
Stop hiding the fact people that they only made this change so people would buy zen to convert them to AD, thus giving the dev more money....
So, for now, I keep my coins in the value they hold and spend only if I need to spend. I am a very patient person. I was pretty mediocre pre Mod 5, but I am starting to get some amazing gear in Mod 6 because I have been playing a long game. Patience, stubbornness and smart moves will pay off. Selling at a loss because the market falls is to lose, but many people will do it.
Eos Sindhalyn | Annointed haste DC | Lv 70 | ilvl 2500
Lily Firegrass | buffbot Iron Vanguard GF | Lv 70 | ilvl 2685
Guild: The Misfit Toys - We are recruiting active players
The problem is that the XB1 doesn't have as much AD in it's economy that's needed, so dropping the prices on GMOP (and lots of other things) while keeping Leadership and hourly events for lets say 4-6 months more, would have improved the state of the ADX significantly.
The PC got these changes after almost 2 years, that was perhaps a year too late, but they had many, many more issues there, with exploits and bots.
I don't really know why they rmoved the Dungeon and Skirmish RAD reward, they could easily have ran both the old and the new system concurrently
*I never assumed anyone was stupid?*
I tend to watch Zen very closely, and even day trade it - just to catch that +10 AD swing and leverage it over 1000-2000 Zen I may have sitting in my account at any given time. For the last few weeks the rate was declining quite steadily, so I prefer to keep money in AD to avoid loss. During big events and when new mods ship there is usually an temporary spike in Zen value, so at these time I keep money in Zen.
I wouldn't count on the rate "returning to normal". It's not going to get back to any particular historic values since the game is ever changing and new normal will be established every time new things happen.
But anyway, don't think that I'm trying to convince you to sell your Zen.
Storing it in the currency you are going to spend it in has the least risks.