Joining a rank 8 guild

tassedethe13 · September 2015

Hello,

As more and more guilds have lvl 8 stronghold and market lvl 4, I see some people from smaller guild asking for joining, buy stuff and leave. Some of them are even willing to pay for this, some of them try to sneak in guild.

More, if you recruit someone, how do you ensure that he will stay in the guild, not buy stuff and leave in hour ?
How to be fair with old guildies, who invested time/money/resources to reach rank 8, and new guildies ?

Can you tell me how do you manage this problem in your guild ?

heberuss · September 2015

I think need to be a delay time to buy items from the shop and get quest to catch artifact-items, like 15 days for example.

ireneadl3r · September 2015

On one hand, I can understand the problem of people taking up a guild spot by deceiving you and then not donating anything. But on the other hand, if they are open about their intentions, have the guild marks/fangs/whatever and only take up the spot for an hour or something, I don't see a problem.
I can understand that with how much the SH building costs, all guildies should contribute for the good of everyone but at the same time this "donate a certain amount or no guild for you" policy is problematic, especially for newer, weaker and/or poorer players. Sometimes it's better to first look at the bigger picture and think in terms of "we" and "us"("we filled the coffer with 50k surplus in 24hrs!", "only took 3 days for us to get all the materials for upgrading!") rather than immediately pointing to specific people and saying they don't deserve to be in your guild.
Those are just my opinions/thoughts on the matter though, anyone can manage their guild in any way they wish. In any case, freeloaders and liars are always going to exist and it's a risk when recruiting unknown people that they might be one, but if you really want to be picky about your guildies, perhaps try to get a person off someone's friend list instead?

rapo973 · September 2015

Up to you.
Decide your policies and enforce your rules.

One possible thing to do: create a mirror-guild with your alts and start a new fortress from scratch. New players who want to join your guild must spend some days (months, years, you decide...) in it, donating and doing daily quests. You can monitor their activities and if they deserve, you can upgrade them. Of course it requires more management work from the guildmasters, but this is the cost if you want to preserve your investments from leechers.
You may say that these players will not donate to the main fortress: you're right, but you can measure their reliability.
Whatever choice you make, there will be a cost.

Btw, I'm more on the generic committment side...

banaanc · September 2015

i dont see any problem with it, seeing how smaller guilds got shafted by cryptic with these strongholds. it is work to do it, but not like you lose something, or do you want cryptic to force remove small guilds who will finish strongholds by the mod 15 at best

rapo973 · September 2015

banaanc said:
do you want cryptic to force remove small guilds who will finish strongholds by the mod 15 at best

I see the opposite: players in smalls guild removing Neverwinter from their PC if nothing changes. I'm in a social-friendly guild and we will not moving to an anonymous big guild.
Currently we're investigating to move not to a bigger guild, but to another game. New games will be realeasd in the next few months...

tassedethe13 · September 2015

Maybe i wasn't clear in my first post.

In my guild, we are a fun guild, people are here to relieve stress after a day of work and enjoy playing with each others.
We hadn't force anybody to contribute, but everybody participated, according to their resources and we reached the rank 8 and market 4 by playing together.

We had a recruitment phase, recruiting like 20 new players. I closed the recruitment to let the time for the new player to integrate the guild, making some friends, enjoying playing.

In one month, I will reopen it, because there are always a turn over, some stay, some leave, and i try to get around 100 active players in my guild.

The problem is, that I want to preserve this fun, friendly atmosphere on the one hand, and on the other hand, i want to protect the time spent by guildies to reach lvl 8. Do you see my dilemma?

I don't want to have people come, get their stuff and leave ( even if we lost nothing ), and i don't want to charge new players BECAUSE they are new.

valwryn · September 2015

My Guild is Allied with a couple smaller Guilds. We invite them daily to participate in Dragon Runs. They join our guild and quickly return to theirs after its over. We'll be doing the same for gear once they're available.

skalt112 · September 2015

You are seeing the cup half empty. Why not sell a guild spot for equipping and you can offset the cost to get there and make ad's to buy zen to buy stronghold packs in order to advance your guild faster. Adding a delay just hurts your loyal guild members.

tassedethe13 · September 2015

valwryn said:
My Guild is Allied with a couple smaller Guilds. We invite them daily to participate in Dragon Runs. They join our guild and quickly return to theirs after its over. We'll be doing the same for gear once they're available.

It looks like mercenary system

It's a win-win deal, it may be boring switching from guild to guild, but it's a good way of making some dragons runs for smaller guilds.

tassedethe13 · September 2015

skalt112 said:
You are seeing the cup half empty. Why not sell a guild spot for equipping and you can offset the cost to get there and make ad's to buy zen to buy stronghold packs in order to advance your guild faster. Adding a delay just hurts your loyal guild members.

The idea came to my mind.... but it will be a total turn over of my guild spirit

ireneadl3r · September 2015

tassedethe13 said:
Maybe i wasn't clear in my first post.

In my guild, we are a fun guild, people are here to relieve stress after a day of work and enjoy playing with each others.
We hadn't force anybody to contribute, but everybody participated, according to their resources and we reached the rank 8 and market 4 by playing together.

We had a recruitment phase, recruiting like 20 new players. I closed the recruitment to let the time for the new player to integrate the guild, making some friends, enjoying playing.

In one month, I will reopen it, because there are always a turn over, some stay, some leave, and i try to get around 100 active players in my guild.

The problem is, that I want to preserve this fun, friendly atmosphere on the one hand, and on the other hand, i want to protect the time spent by guildies to reach lvl 8. Do you see my dilemma?

I don't want to have people come, get their stuff and leave ( even if we lost nothing ), and i don't want to charge new players BECAUSE they are new.

What do you mean by this? Your work toward GH LV8 doesn't become wasted or lessened by anyone, the time and resources you spent on it, is spent and no new guildies can take any of it away. All they can do is decrease the amount of time/resources others have to spend in the future (likely by very small margins, unless they're mega-loaded with stuff). No one in any guild should think their own donations are devalued, unappreciated or ruined because of another player. Now, if a new guildie starts to ruin the atmosphere, then that's another matter entirely.

ireneadl3r · September 2015

Double post X(

tassedethe13 · September 2015

ireneadl3r said:

What do you mean by this? Your work toward GH LV8 doesn't become wasted or lessened by anyone, the time and resources you spent on it, is spent and no new guildies can take any of it away. All they can do is decrease the amount of time/resources others have to spend in the future (likely by very small margins, unless they're mega-loaded with stuff). No one in any guild should think their own donations are devalued, unappreciated or ruined because of another player. Now, if a new guildie starts to ruin the atmosphere, then that's another matter entirely.

In fact a new guildie can do 2 things:
- Integrate and like you says, decreases the resources amount, plays with the guild
- Get stuffed and leave

In the first case, no problem. That's what a recruitment is for.
In the second case, donations won't be devaluated, but if this case happens too much, guildies can feel spoiled like "Why this guy just came, get stuffed and left? I helped reaching this point and my efforts reward opportunists sneaker !"

Maybe I think too much, maybe not....

ireneadl3r · September 2015

tassedethe13 said:

ireneadl3r said:

What do you mean by this? Your work toward GH LV8 doesn't become wasted or lessened by anyone, the time and resources you spent on it, is spent and no new guildies can take any of it away. All they can do is decrease the amount of time/resources others have to spend in the future (likely by very small margins, unless they're mega-loaded with stuff). No one in any guild should think their own donations are devalued, unappreciated or ruined because of another player. Now, if a new guildie starts to ruin the atmosphere, then that's another matter entirely.
In fact a new guildie can do 2 things:
- Integrate and like you says, decreases the resources amount, plays with the guild
- Get stuffed and leave

In the first case, no problem. That's what a recruitment is for.
In the second case, donations won't be devaluated, but if this case happens too much, guildies can feel spoiled like "Why this guy just came, get stuffed and left? I helped reaching this point and my efforts reward opportunists sneaker !"

Maybe I think too muc, maybe not....

The way I see it, it's just the way of thinking about it that makes it bad. Sure, their efforts reward opportunist sneakers but in the end, they lose nothing and most important of all, their efforts already rewarded themselves and their guildies! It's like when yesterday, I did a quest in Dwarven Valley that had me fighting groups of enemies until I reached the Hammerstone Queen, and when I had reached her, a couple of players had strolled through where the enemies used to be, only having to participate in the final fight - they could finish the quest without having to fight the initial groups of enemies, thus being rewarded by my efforts. But in my mind, that's not a bad thing, I could still be proud of my efforts and in fact be even more so due to these two players, because I had helped them with my efforts. It's not like baking a cake, which has a finite amount of slices, it's like digging a well that becomes an infinite source of water, and I personally don't mind if everyone in the world comes to drink from my well, as long as they don't try to discredit my work on it.
But I do understand that for some people, other people drinking from your well counts as a kind of "discredit", after all, they have the ability to dig their own, why should they be allowed to be lazy when others are working hard? Though I personally always see a problem in that though process in that we ourselves usually do take advantage of other peoples' work, sometimes not even intentionally ("if someone else already cleared out the enemies, why should I stay here and wait just to fight them myself?") and we often chose to ignore how much others do or have done for us when we argue that those same people shouldn't benefit from our work.
Forgive me, I've turned this into a bit of a weird discussion. I understand your (and your guildies') point and I don't mean to say it's wrong, I simply don't agree with it personally.

oldbaldyone · September 2015

I don't see a need to stop this. You lose nothing really. It isn't like you have to restock your shelves or gain more resources to replace the gear.

Wait till guilds start getting to the Artifact levels..then you will really see this start

tassedethe13 · September 2015

Thanks to everyone for all of those points of views, I think we can't prevent guild shopper but anyway, as many of you stated, we played for us, and for the guildies.

santralafax · September 2015

valwryn said:
My Guild is Allied with a couple smaller Guilds. We invite them daily to participate in Dragon Runs. They join our guild and quickly return to theirs after its over. We'll be doing the same for gear once they're available.

+1 I like this.

gankdalf · September 2015

Entry fee so that new players also donated some for the stuff they gain. I mean they getting new boons, gear etc and asking for a small entry fee is not unfair or unrealistic.

Or you can ask them for something in collateral that you hold on too for X weeks. Then you can give it back if you think they contributed enough during these weeks or keep it and kick the player if he didn't. If he leaves within an hour you also keep it ofc.

qexotic · September 2015

Perhaps I'm missing something here but I don't see why there is a problem in allowing players who have been able to accumulate enough Guild Marks to buy gear that is available only in high level Strongholds. The only way they can earn those Marks is by donating to a Stronghold or running Stronghold quests, just not necessarily in your Stronghold. I have two characters. My main has 18k in Guild Marks while my alt has 13k. I have earned these through donations to the SH Mimic and SH quests. Unfortunately, my guild SH only has a Level 1 marketplace, so I cannot use any of my hard earned Marks to buy gear yet. If this was my hard earned cash and I could not find what I wanted in my small, local shops I would go to a nearby town with large shops and see if I could spend it there. I don't see why the same approach cannot be adopted in NW.

gankdalf · September 2015

magenubbie said:

ejziponken said:
Entry fee so that new players also donated some for the stuff they gain. I mean they getting new boons, gear etc and asking for a small entry fee is not unfair or unrealistic.

Or you can ask them for something in collateral that you hold on too for X weeks. Then you can give it back if you think they contributed enough during these weeks or keep it and kick the player if he didn't. If he leaves within an hour you also keep it ofc.
Not going to happen. If you don't trust the person, you don't recruit. Simple as that. Entry fees and temporary confiscation of personal items until you've proven your worth isn't going to attract any new players.
If you clearly show such distrust, how do you expect the recruit to trust you?

Its not about trust. Its about all members contributing for the new gear and boons. Its about fitting in as a new player. You don't want to be seen as a leech.

How are you suposed to trust new players? I mean most of the time you have no idea who they are and how can you trust someone then? Sometimes you need to take a risk and recruit players you dont know (trust).

davejustdave · September 2015

As stated above, it really should not be a concern. Players will have earned the marks they spend somewhere and it costs your guild absolutely nothing if they join, buy stuff and leave immediately. Yes, it's a bit cheeky but really it's no biggie. Spread the love!

s1lv3rdrgnforum · September 2015

As most everyone has pointed out in this thread, the OP was a little arrogant. Your guild is not so much different than my guild, his guild, her guild, their guild and Joe Blow's guild. Most of the players in the game already have a group of friends they like to relax and be with; we seem to be currently (since mod 6) losing more players than gaining - so seeing the "new" face is fairly refreshing and revives that spirit of "I wanna help someone get ahead". However, as others have said, I'd rather say hi-bye to a guild hopper than to see them leave the game out of frustration at never seeing the top end equipment because their group of friends is too small to advance their SH.

two30 · September 2015

If you truly cared about fairness, OP, you would have written a guild charter that addresses these issues BEFORE anyone invested in your stronghold.

Since you failed to do this, the correct approach is to announce your resignation as guild leader and call an election. (They may reelect you if they still have confidence in your leadership.) Whoever takes the helm should then start the process of writing a charter.

Of course, you don't have to do any of this. Cryptic considers guilds to be absolute monarchies, so you're free to do whatever you want.

Joining a rank 8 guild

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