Thanks to everyone for all of those points of views, I think we can't prevent guild shopper but anyway, as many of you stated, we played for us, and for the guildies.
I don't really see the point in stopping them ...
It's their loss because apparently they can't stay in a guild that has a level 8 GH. So they may have gotten the armor but they don't get the boons.
This is why we have an application form, can easily tell between sneaky trolls and serious people, and we have an easy hand with rejection if the app is not good enough, that cuts it. I have absolutely no intention to allow people inside the guild unless they're willing to be a part of the community and have full intentions to stay, market 4 or not. No, we're not losing anything, but it's cheap/cheesy. Being in a guild that can self-provide and with good players is a privilege, there aren't many and most are very selective and for a good reason. Quality over quantitiy.
So what are you all going to do in the future? You know, when the strongholds are all mainly built up and the rush to get max ranked structures is over? At that point any further contributions wont be needed, new members wont be able to offer much and will gain access to everything?
Will you all stop recruiting, to keep it fair? Of course not.
So if its not going to be a problem then, why should it be one now?
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
/me rolls eyes...
Some of these comments have the right idea and some of them are just completely sociopathic. I will let you figure out which is which.
This is a game... who in the hell cares if someone joins your guild to get gear and leaves? We make a point of showing every new member the deepest respect and appreciation... and we trust them to help out... because we help them out. If you cannot capitalize on someone joining your guild... enough to keep them in the guild... something may be off.
Right now there are quite a few players who are choosing to take trial runs in different guilds to see which one suits them best. If you are closed to accepting this player... you lose. If you can't make a connection with this player then it was not meant to be... and hopefully they will find the right fit soon. In the process you may have made a new connection in the game. Those connections are worth more than AD and Zen.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
If you truly cared about fairness, OP, you would have written a guild charter that addresses these issues BEFORE anyone invested in your stronghold.
Since you failed to do this, the correct approach is to announce your resignation as guild leader and call an election. (They may reelect you if they still have confidence in your leadership.) Whoever takes the helm should then start the process of writing a charter.
Of course, you don't have to do any of this. Cryptic considers guilds to be absolute monarchies, so you're free to do whatever you want.
Wait what ? Are you serious ? I am getting some advices before we face this situation....
As most everyone has pointed out in this thread, the OP was a little arrogant. Your guild is not so much different than my guild, his guild, her guild, their guild and Joe Blow's guild. Most of the players in the game already have a group of friends they like to relax and be with; we seem to be currently (since mod 6) losing more players than gaining - so seeing the "new" face is fairly refreshing and revives that spirit of "I wanna help someone get ahead". However, as others have said, I'd rather say hi-bye to a guild hopper than to see them leave the game out of frustration at never seeing the top end equipment because their group of friends is too small to advance their SH.
There is a difference between a small guild member asking for buying stuff at your shop, and the man you take time to recruit, explain the rules of the guild, and then who makes you lost your time by buying and leaving.
If you truly cared about fairness, OP, you would have written a guild charter that addresses these issues BEFORE anyone invested in your stronghold.
Since you failed to do this, the correct approach is to announce your resignation as guild leader and call an election. (They may reelect you if they still have confidence in your leadership.) Whoever takes the helm should then start the process of writing a charter.
Of course, you don't have to do any of this. Cryptic considers guilds to be absolute monarchies, so you're free to do whatever you want.
Wait what ? Are you serious ? I am getting some advices before we face this situation....
Yes, I am serious. I've described some of the most basic standards for fair governance.
Fairness is hard work. I suspect most guild leaders don't bother because beating up ogres and pit fiends is far more fun than worrying about moral obligations.
If you truly cared about fairness, OP, you would have written a guild charter that addresses these issues BEFORE anyone invested in your stronghold.
Since you failed to do this, the correct approach is to announce your resignation as guild leader and call an election. (They may reelect you if they still have confidence in your leadership.) Whoever takes the helm should then start the process of writing a charter.
Of course, you don't have to do any of this. Cryptic considers guilds to be absolute monarchies, so you're free to do whatever you want.
Wait what ? Are you serious ? I am getting some advices before we face this situation....
Yes, I am serious. I've described some of the most basic standards for fair governance.
Fairness is hard work. I suspect most guild leaders don't bother because beating up ogres and pit fiends is far more fun than worrying about moral obligations.
So basically, I am working on how to be fair, and you tell me "leave your guild lead" because it's not fair ?
if i was a guild leader and the guy asking to be guilded is not a friend of small group of guildies, i would have no regrets in making him pay something like 500k ad. not to become rich but as a form of respect to the other hard worker members.
LOL, pay 1/2 million AD to join a guild? With the current AD landscape? That is 20+ days worth of grinding dungeons/skirmishes/pvp on 1 character. People with jobs and lives can possibly cut that in half with alts, if they have really good teams
Why couldn't there be a win-win situation between larger guilds and smaller guilds though? Allowing people to join to access your market is one way to help, but the only people really benefiting are the ones accessing the market. But what if some members from the larger guilds temporarily joined the smaller to help them build. There's a chance that would allow for them to be able to get guild marks from donating items to the coffer that they may not have been able to donate in their guild because it's at max. So rather than destroying those pieces, they can go towards helping another guild, since they cannot be traded. Just a thought. Pus, even after getting your armor, more guild marks = more items you can buy to salvage, so in essence you could earn AD from helping another guild. Just a thought.
Consider an application process. It isn't for all guilds, but I've found that of all the guilds across all the games I've played in, there's an overall better quality (personality wise) when there's an application process in place. Someone who's looking to dine and dash will likely not waste their time on your guild if another will make it easy.
LOL, pay 1/2 million AD to join a guild? With the current AD landscape? That is 20+ days worth of grinding dungeons/skirmishes/pvp on 1 character. People with jobs and lives can possibly cut that in half with alts, if they have really good teams
you make no sense... every little upgrade to everything cost EACH ONE 3.5KK ads. i really do not think 500k as entry cost is unfair
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
500k to join a rank 8 guild is Cheap, hell
Think about how much a guild as a whole has to contribute and work on to achieve that, things doesn't just happen magically just because your guild is big, it still takes a lot of effort from ALL MEMBERS to achieve the results. So if the new members did not spend the time to help farming influence, did not help contribute resources, did not help other alts in the guild to farm more influence, then what makes you think he should share the fruits hardworked by all the others? Yes, an entry fee to help contribute to the guild coffer sounds fair.
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
guilds with rank 9+ guildhall right now are not guilds that would invite a new player. btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
guilds with rank 9+ guildhall right now are not guilds that would invite a new player. btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
There's a difference between requiring say 50,000 a week and 500,000 at once. You should be capped by other costs before AD if you have sufficient members anyways.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
guilds with rank 9+ guildhall right now are not guilds that would invite a new player. btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
There's a difference between requiring say 50,000 a week and 500,000 at once. You should be capped by other costs before AD if you have sufficient members anyways.
there is absolutely no difference, lets say i join a guild next month with guildhall lv 11 and i didnt play at all until that day. 500k ad to join them? its basically free. I would have worked way more if i contributed to their progressing since day 1. i mean those 500k are really going to help but at least the guild leader and the new guy show respect for the work of their entire guild
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
guilds with rank 9+ guildhall right now are not guilds that would invite a new player. btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
dont tell me your guildies will pay these prices.....
Isn't it 7.4 million AD vs 597,000 influence? Meaning that you're essentially time capped by influence whereas with AD you have a 24,000 AD per character limit. With 50 active players you need 148,000 AD per player. That's basically 10 days worth of daily skirmishes+dungeons (with no alts, you can cut that time in half if everyone has one alt). Whereas influence will take about twice as long.
500 000 as entry fee? for a new player for example? Mans you are complete lunatics here. So he must grind solo over many weeks to get this fee and dont have progress on his characters? This is true gamer nightmare you are supporting....
guilds with rank 9+ guildhall right now are not guilds that would invite a new player. btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
There's a difference between requiring say 50,000 a week and 500,000 at once. You should be capped by other costs before AD if you have sufficient members anyways.
there is absolutely no difference, lets say i join a guild next month with guildhall lv 11 and i didnt play at all until that day. 500k ad to join them? its basically free. I would have worked way more if i contributed to their progressing since day 1. i mean those 500k are really going to help but at least the guild leader and the new guy show respect for the work of their entire guild
Sure there is. I don't have 500k AD on hand. On the other hand I make ~50k AD a day.
So it's more appealing to me to join a lower level guild where I don't have to have AD on hand. It's your guilds loss when you don't get players like that to join.
This is like the anti-gun versus pro-gun arguments. Anti-guns want to take all the guns, pro-guns people want to be able to carry a bazooka to target....and theres not much wiggle room in between.
This was bound to be a problem, and people had these discussions pre-release. I can understand wanting people to pay their dues, but I also understand the idea that if you join a guild, you get the perks.
IMO, they need to add a guild rank to the mix. You get guild marks for doing SH activities, and you also make progress in the guild (IE a campaign window or tree of sorts). The more effort you put into it, the more benefits you get. However, if you leave the guild, your progress is reset. Gear, Boons, everything in the SH should be tied to both Guild Level and Guild Rank.
This would 100% resolve the issue of new people joining advanced guilds and not pulling their weight (because they would have to progress before they can get to the goodies). I guess a downside is if you switch guilds to donate to another guild, you lose progress, but that can be resolved by allowing people to enter other guild halls and donate (via the party mechanic).
Unfortunately, it will probably never happen. Tying boons and gear to guilds was a HUGE mistake. Most guilds will never reach GH16, so those artifact weapons will never be available unless they guild jump. The future mods will almost be REQUIRED to involve the SH items, gear, boons at some point, so the SH will become a HUGE gate factor.
If they decide that the SH won't play a major factor, then they will have to balance the game around people with major boon boosts, major gear advancements that cost time and energy to get, against people with no boons, Mod6 artifacts, maybe mod 7 DF gear.....thats going to be a HUGE descrepency. Good luck.
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It's their loss because apparently they can't stay in a guild that has a level 8 GH. So they may have gotten the armor but they don't get the boons.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Will you all stop recruiting, to keep it fair? Of course not.
So if its not going to be a problem then, why should it be one now?
Some of these comments have the right idea and some of them are just completely sociopathic. I will let you figure out which is which.
This is a game... who in the hell cares if someone joins your guild to get gear and leaves? We make a point of showing every new member the deepest respect and appreciation... and we trust them to help out... because we help them out. If you cannot capitalize on someone joining your guild... enough to keep them in the guild... something may be off.
Right now there are quite a few players who are choosing to take trial runs in different guilds to see which one suits them best. If you are closed to accepting this player... you lose. If you can't make a connection with this player then it was not meant to be... and hopefully they will find the right fit soon. In the process you may have made a new connection in the game. Those connections are worth more than AD and Zen.
There is a difference between a small guild member asking for buying stuff at your shop, and the man you take time to recruit, explain the rules of the guild, and then who makes you lost your time by buying and leaving.
Fairness is hard work. I suspect most guild leaders don't bother because beating up ogres and pit fiends is far more fun than worrying about moral obligations.
not to become rich but as a form of respect to the other hard worker members.
every little upgrade to everything cost EACH ONE 3.5KK ads.
i really do not think 500k as entry cost is unfair
Think about how much a guild as a whole has to contribute and work on to achieve that, things doesn't just happen magically just because your guild is big, it still takes a lot of effort from ALL MEMBERS to achieve the results. So if the new members did not spend the time to help farming influence, did not help contribute resources, did not help other alts in the guild to farm more influence, then what makes you think he should share the fruits hardworked by all the others? Yes, an entry fee to help contribute to the guild coffer sounds fair.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
btw really if 500k is a price that makes you be alarmed i hope you never see prices for guild structures boon and such at lv 3+
i mean those 500k are really going to help but at least the guild leader and the new guy show respect for the work of their entire guild
So it's more appealing to me to join a lower level guild where I don't have to have AD on hand. It's your guilds loss when you don't get players like that to join.
This was bound to be a problem, and people had these discussions pre-release. I can understand wanting people to pay their dues, but I also understand the idea that if you join a guild, you get the perks.
IMO, they need to add a guild rank to the mix. You get guild marks for doing SH activities, and you also make progress in the guild (IE a campaign window or tree of sorts). The more effort you put into it, the more benefits you get. However, if you leave the guild, your progress is reset. Gear, Boons, everything in the SH should be tied to both Guild Level and Guild Rank.
This would 100% resolve the issue of new people joining advanced guilds and not pulling their weight (because they would have to progress before they can get to the goodies). I guess a downside is if you switch guilds to donate to another guild, you lose progress, but that can be resolved by allowing people to enter other guild halls and donate (via the party mechanic).
Unfortunately, it will probably never happen. Tying boons and gear to guilds was a HUGE mistake. Most guilds will never reach GH16, so those artifact weapons will never be available unless they guild jump. The future mods will almost be REQUIRED to involve the SH items, gear, boons at some point, so the SH will become a HUGE gate factor.
If they decide that the SH won't play a major factor, then they will have to balance the game around people with major boon boosts, major gear advancements that cost time and energy to get, against people with no boons, Mod6 artifacts, maybe mod 7 DF gear.....thats going to be a HUGE descrepency. Good luck.