Strum, you need to address this. Please just say something. If a manager is standing in the way, you need to show them just how unbelievably bad this looks. The forums have never been this toxic.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I took a break from this game a while back. The thing that kept this game in the back of my mind was the leadership crafting. I'd still log into the gateway, craft leadership, jewellery, and alchemy on my 3 chars (yes, far from an army) and log in before bed to pray, every night, even though I didn't leave the PE pray circle for 6 or 7 months.
When I came back, I was a paying customer again. Bought VIP, bank slots, char slots, orange holding bags, rubies, and some other stuff I can't even remember.
Food for thought, I paid cuz I wanted to, not because I felt forced to. Good luck with the new strategy.
Strum, you need to address this. Please just say something. If a manager is standing in the way, you need to show them just how unbelievably bad this looks. The forums have never been this toxic.
No joking. I might have been not very active on forum but it was since: nothing very bad or game breaking was happening. Now for 1st time since all 7 Mods and over 2 years I'm seeing so many people opposed to changes. Literally: never it was even 1/10 of amount. And great many topics and posts were buried. Which made people either resign altogether or get more agitated.
"You stand as inspiration. You are practically the Avatar of Buttkicking." -Quote towards Minsc "I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
Since this company likes to gank their customers AND delete comments from those who spend actual money like the little immature babies they are, I am forced to write this again....
ROFLMAO, Are you kidding me?
Spending months PLAYING your game to get my leadership up to the level it needs to be to MAKE that AD, isn't playing? Pathetic...
I ONLY play mmos for PVP, I could care less about your stupid non existent dungeons that take too long for people who have little time. I could give 2 rats azz about your skirmishes, which I have the time, but why play something repetitively that offers very little. I HAVE played your game and completed everything there is to complete on 1 character. Why should I do it over and over and over and over for each character when there is nothing new to enjoy? Why should I HAVE to do the same repetitive stuff that BORES the **** out of me...
Look at my purchase history vs activity and see how much money you got on top of that AD I made that I had to click thousands of times, but hey that's not playing your game which took an hour to do a day, half the time I have to play and the rest of the time I PVP. This is all your game had to offer me and now you take that away.
Now, you get nothing from me and I will not invest another single penny in your company. Which I was screwed now twice by them. Once in STO, which I now receive a 500 a month stipend for, and now in NWO for PLAYING the game the WAY they MADE it...
And seeing how lots of people have SPENT lots of REAL money and you take it away without compensation, I smell a class action law. Anything over 150 is a felony and you have just stolen more than that from a lot of us...
some posts are insta delete rofl im a regular player and invest in company casuality and btw im support this decision its not fair facerol 50tons with LS THIS is broken te economy another side "former" exploiters dont botter with this decision because this sit on a thousands of AD this cc's must be investigate!!!!! good luck for all and again im support this decision...this is hard but necessary...maybe some tweks in a near future is welcome...but commom "leechers" dont start a "bloody hunt witchers"...my 2 cents and vry sry for my bad bad bad english!!!
some posts are insta delete rofl im a regular player and invest in company casuality and btw im support this decision its not fair facerol 50tons with LS THIS is broken te economy another side "former" exploiters dont botter with this decision because this sit on a thousands of AD this cc's must be investigate!!!!! good luck for all and again im support this decision...this is hard but necessary...my 2 cents
With spelling like that it sounds like you are the target audience for this brand of kool aid.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
There are three camps.
1.) HOW DARE YOU REMOVE AD FROM LEADERSHIP! 2.) I agree conceptually, but your implementation is bass ackwards. 3.) HERP DERP DE DERP DE HERP HERP.
Well, I guess there's the forth camp:
"I really wasn't paying attention to all this. What's a leadership army, now?"
dont lost u time offend me its not logical lol and IM a REGULAR player and spend REAL MONEY sometimes not a "leecher", botter or macro guy or a former exploiter pvper with a shine full r12 4 mithics and a mont 140%
imagine that, my posts are insta deleted becuz I paid them my hard earned cash and they don't respect me enough to respond to me like a human instead some sneaky thief that robs from the poor and deletes the proof...
You sir should be on the news for a crooked scam alert.
*company* Oh heres a few new game and its free to play!
*new customer* wow this game is really fun and it really is free!! I love what they are doing, im going to support them since this model really is great, I want to reward them for providing fun and best of all for free!!!
*company* sike! we tricked you into giving us money now here is your reward, your class gets nerf'd over and over and over so you cant get a group and you cant solo anymore but don't fear, if you invest in only 18 months in leadership you will be able to afford gear that will let you go in a dungeon!!
*beatin down customer* well its still fun, ill give it a shot! Wow this is fun I love castle neverwinter, I can really make a good amount of AD from selling drops! and its great helping newbies out in clock tower and even more fun in epic clock tower, this game is still fun even though I lost 50% of my dps since im an archery HR and they love Trapper HR's now..
*company* wow it seems bots have taken over castle neverwinter and too many people are having fun in clock tower, lets turns those zones off and nerf HR's some more to teach them a lesson and tell them its just a balancing act.
*trusting customer* - okay I guess my dps was almost as good as a TR, but I really liked clock tower and castle neverwinter, Ill keep playing since my leadership is almost level 25 now and im making 1600ad x3 per character, I know ill buy 6 more character slots and get 1,600ad x 3 time 10 so I can at least afford some gear to get in the new dungeons... Oh nice VIP access will grant a key to open a lock box surely I will get lucky and get something decent, afterall the game is still fun as TR now since my HR cant even out dps a newbie paladin..
*company* oh my bots are running even more now, shut down leadership!!
*pissed off customer* oh thanks company for stealing from me and deleting all my posts about it. You guys are the worse of the worse.
Before I go back to work (really need, this whole issue, it stole too much of my focus) I guess I'm camp 1,5. There was a serious need to alternative besides paying cash or doing Leadership for heaps amount of time. There was a need to daunt bots (though this move did not work, much better things were suggested by players if one care to check). But instead of new route to get competitive -> one of existing got totally erased. So that spending became about only option to truly master the content.
PS: I like how You pointed that even most frustrated of us seem to be least basically eloquent and literate (well camp 3 for instance haves very imaginative math I can least say from today's experience. Thing You would not learn on any University. I won't say word on their grammar though just to be ... forgiving? )
"You stand as inspiration. You are practically the Avatar of Buttkicking." -Quote towards Minsc "I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Literally, the only people I've seen unilaterally defending this change have been deliberately trolling, or simply uninformed ("I never used a leadership army anyway so eh~")
They are the derp de herp camp. People who aren't taking things seriously, but still comment.
Cryptic's staff popped smoked and dropped artillery. That is... they are conducting a retrograde maneuver... or, in other words, they're hiding in a hole waiting for us to stop shooting at them. Once everyone quiets down, they can get back to finding more ways to squeeze more money out of players while telling you the change is to fix something. I mean, they're not lying I guess - it's to fix falling revenues, and maybe to fix the fact the bosses need to get themselves into new 2016 BMWs... I mean, the 2015s are so..... this year.
Clearly then, the solution is to maintain rotating suppression fire on their location, while the rest of the teams commence fire and maneuver to keep them pinned so they can't complete their tactical withdrawal.
Who shall have the heavy weapons, and who shall be the fireteams?
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I will never buy another Hasbro or wizard of the coast product again. I will make sure I tell everyone this in the future.
You know, WotC probably didn't have anything to do with this other than greenlighting Elemental Evil conceptually, right?
Although, I find the idea funny that players boycotting the D&D brand because of a bad MMO causes WotC to throw its muscle around and force PWE to do things "their way" on something. Yes, appeal to Hasbro-they'll certainly try and get mean ol' PWE to rescind the leadership changes!
Eh, it's ... an interesting strategy, but I don't think it'd be effective.
I will never buy another Hasbro or wizard of the coast product again. I will make sure I tell everyone this in the future.
You know, WotC probably didn't have anything to do with this other than greenlighting Elemental Evil conceptually, right?
Although, I find the idea funny that players boycotting the D&D brand because of a bad MMO causes WotC to throw its muscle around and force PWE to do things "their way" on something. Yes, appeal to Hasbro-they'll certainly try and get mean ol' PWE to rescind the leadership changes!
Eh, it's ... an interesting strategy, but I don't think it'd be effective.
well their logo is on the game. Which means they must support these high way robbery tactics.
Clearly then, the solution is to maintain rotating suppression fire on their location, while the rest of the teams commence fire and maneuver to keep them pinned so they can't complete their tactical withdrawal.
Who shall have the heavy weapons, and who shall be the fireteams?
If things won't change till Friday: count me in. The cause is just and I never seen our community as united as today XD (not sure if it's reason to be happy, since it's due to very bitter occurence)
"You stand as inspiration. You are practically the Avatar of Buttkicking." -Quote towards Minsc "I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
The funniest supportive comments are by the folks who haven't even gotten to the grindy part yet. They are sub 60 and still enjoying the "fun" part of the game before the work starts and the fun drains right out. TBH I absolutely hated tending to LS minions just to be able to get some decent gear on more than one toon. I would have been all for a decent alternative but we all knew that was never going to happen. If you are going to come forward and say something positive about the change please be someone that did the L70 grind, got your boons, got your artifact equipment and artifacts and have actually have them leveled. For good measure be someone who has done that for more than one character. Then please tell us all how we can achieve that under this new and "improved" system. No takers? Yea didn't think so.
thegreatmikeyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 122Arc User
Teatew, believe me, I share your frustration. But don't post while in the heat of rage. When you make direct attacks on a personal level your post will get deleted.
Go ahead and vent all you want, but don't make it personal. Keep it to the issue at hand and the decisions and choices made, which are indeed hard to swallow.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Look, let me put it like this:
First, I will say "pretend for the moment" a lot here. What that means is "these are the things that I'm complaining about when I say it's a botched implementation.
Pretend, for the moment, that there is no wondrous bazaar or zen shop. Currency is used on the auction house. Therefore, the supply and demand of items is tied directly to player income levels. Under the old model, if you had a leadership army, that meant you had multiple times the purchasing power of someone that didn't have a leadership army. The prices of items would be tailored towards people who are making the most purchases, so the people who didn't have leadership armies weren't able to purchase anything.
Long story short, a leadership army essentially became mandatory for playing the game.
Flash forward to today, that's no longer the case-but now, we instead have the case wherein your income isn't sufficient to get certain items, not because prices aren't autoadjusting on the auction house (though that too, but that's a different issue), but rather because prices are fixed, fixed both in terms of astral diamonds (Wondrous Bazaar) and in terms of zen. Now, the cost of items fixed in terms of zen in terms of AD floats, due to the exchange rate. So that too could theoretically correspond to the income level of players. Zen items are, simply put, worth as much as players compare time to money. No contradiction.
But, remember that there were two assumptions at the start of this. We've already stated that the zen shop isn't a problem with changing income levels because of the floating price of the zen. But what does put a death knell in things is that the Wondrous Bazaar exists. If the Wondrous Bazaar was simply removed from the game, and every item necessary for playing the game was a random drop (or alternatively purchasable via gold), then it doesn't matter how much income players have, because the price of all items will adjust to be in terms of income.
Now, there is one last caveat to all this, and that's that goldspammers may have hoards of leftover AD, because they can frankly produce AD faster than they can sell it, and this will definitely prevent prices from stabilizing through normal market activity. I'll concede I don't know how to get around this issue.
For those of us who played City of Heroes, this brings back bad memories of Issue 5 (I-5) and Enhancement Diversity (ED). Those nerfs spelled doom for a wonderful game, and generated so many comments in opposition that the initial thread was closed. Ultimately, more than 3000 pages of comments complaining about I-5 and ED were posted, but the Devs never listened and never reversed them because they were Jack Emmert's wet dream about how *HE* wanted everyone to play the game. What his customers wanted meant exactly nothing to him because, in his mind, we were too stupid to see that what we wanted was all wrong because it wasn't what he wanted. The net result was that CoH lost about half of its player base, but this was hidden by the simultaneous release of City of VIllains which attracted new players who replaced some of those who quit. Neverwinter is not releasing an equivalent to CIty of Villains, so the loss of players will not be camouflaged like it was in City of Heroes.
I can't prove that this is another example of the arrogant solipsism of Jack Emmert, but it sure smells like it. I only hope that wiser heads will prevail at Cryptic and that some accommodation will be made for the desires of the players. I enjoyed Neverwinter before this nerf, and would not like to see it fail because of corporate egos.
Comments
Four days.
Strum, you need to address this. Please just say something. If a manager is standing in the way, you need to show them just how unbelievably bad this looks. The forums have never been this toxic.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I took a break from this game a while back.
The thing that kept this game in the back of my mind was the leadership crafting.
I'd still log into the gateway, craft leadership, jewellery, and alchemy on my 3 chars (yes, far from an army) and log in before bed to pray, every night, even though I didn't leave the PE pray circle for 6 or 7 months.
When I came back, I was a paying customer again. Bought VIP, bank slots, char slots, orange holding bags, rubies, and some other stuff I can't even remember.
Food for thought, I paid cuz I wanted to, not because I felt forced to. Good luck with the new strategy.
WELCOME TO MY ART CORNER!
"I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
ROFLMAO, Are you kidding me?
Spending months PLAYING your game to get my leadership up to the level it needs to be to MAKE that AD, isn't playing? Pathetic...
I ONLY play mmos for PVP, I could care less about your stupid non existent dungeons that take too long for people who have little time. I could give 2 rats azz about your skirmishes, which I have the time, but why play something repetitively that offers very little. I HAVE played your game and completed everything there is to complete on 1 character. Why should I do it over and over and over and over for each character when there is nothing new to enjoy?
Why should I HAVE to do the same repetitive stuff that BORES the **** out of me...
Look at my purchase history vs activity and see how much money you got on top of that AD I made that I had to click thousands of times, but hey that's not playing your game which took an hour to do a day, half the time I have to play and the rest of the time I PVP. This is all your game had to offer me and now you take that away.
Now, you get nothing from me and I will not invest another single penny in your company. Which I was screwed now twice by them. Once in STO, which I now receive a 500 a month stipend for, and now in NWO for PLAYING the game the WAY they MADE it...
And seeing how lots of people have SPENT lots of REAL money and you take it away without compensation, I smell a class action law. Anything over 150 is a felony and you have just stolen more than that from a lot of us...
Dorlin: Level 65 GF/2nd Account: Calias/62
Elkysium: Level 65 CW/2nd Account: Krystalyn/62
Artemis: Level 65 TR/2nd Account: Fayne/62
Zantoth: Level 65 DC/2nd Account: Nemea/62
Kryndar: Level 65 HR/2nd Account: Lilith/62
Goreb: Level 65 GWF/2nd Account: Tysha/62
Bamidor: Level 65 OP/2nd Account: Valindra/62
1.) HOW DARE YOU REMOVE AD FROM LEADERSHIP!
2.) I agree conceptually, but your implementation is bass ackwards.
3.) HERP DERP DE DERP DE HERP HERP.
Well, I guess there's the forth camp:
"I really wasn't paying attention to all this. What's a leadership army, now?"
You sir should be on the news for a crooked scam alert.
*company* Oh heres a few new game and its free to play!
*new customer* wow this game is really fun and it really is free!! I love what they are doing, im going to support them since this model really is great, I want to reward them for providing fun and best of all for free!!!
*company* sike! we tricked you into giving us money now here is your reward, your class gets nerf'd over and over and over so you cant get a group and you cant solo anymore but don't fear, if you invest in only 18 months in leadership you will be able to afford gear that will let you go in a dungeon!!
*beatin down customer* well its still fun, ill give it a shot! Wow this is fun I love castle neverwinter, I can really make a good amount of AD from selling drops! and its great helping newbies out in clock tower and even more fun in epic clock tower, this game is still fun even though I lost 50% of my dps since im an archery HR and they love Trapper HR's now..
*company* wow it seems bots have taken over castle neverwinter and too many people are having fun in clock tower, lets turns those zones off and nerf HR's some more to teach them a lesson and tell them its just a balancing act.
*trusting customer* - okay I guess my dps was almost as good as a TR, but I really liked clock tower and castle neverwinter, Ill keep playing since my leadership is almost level 25 now and im making 1600ad x3 per character, I know ill buy 6 more character slots and get 1,600ad x 3 time 10 so I can at least afford some gear to get in the new dungeons... Oh nice VIP access will grant a key to open a lock box surely I will get lucky and get something decent, afterall the game is still fun as TR now since my HR cant even out dps a newbie paladin..
*company* oh my bots are running even more now, shut down leadership!!
*pissed off customer* oh thanks company for stealing from me and deleting all my posts about it. You guys are the worse of the worse.
*company* who cares, we got your money sucker!
PS: I like how You pointed that even most frustrated of us seem to be least basically eloquent and literate
WELCOME TO MY ART CORNER!
"I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
They are the derp de herp camp. People who aren't taking things seriously, but still comment.
Who shall have the heavy weapons, and who shall be the fireteams?
Although, I find the idea funny that players boycotting the D&D brand because of a bad MMO causes WotC to throw its muscle around and force PWE to do things "their way" on something. Yes, appeal to Hasbro-they'll certainly try and get mean ol' PWE to rescind the leadership changes!
Eh, it's ... an interesting strategy, but I don't think it'd be effective.
For now Cyaa all and continue just fight!
WELCOME TO MY ART CORNER!
"I choose You Jymaru!" ~for there are times when more than words need to do the talk
Go ahead and vent all you want, but don't make it personal. Keep it to the issue at hand and the decisions and choices made, which are indeed hard to swallow.
Your little roleplay was pretty fun though.
First, I will say "pretend for the moment" a lot here. What that means is "these are the things that I'm complaining about when I say it's a botched implementation.
Pretend, for the moment, that there is no wondrous bazaar or zen shop. Currency is used on the auction house. Therefore, the supply and demand of items is tied directly to player income levels. Under the old model, if you had a leadership army, that meant you had multiple times the purchasing power of someone that didn't have a leadership army. The prices of items would be tailored towards people who are making the most purchases, so the people who didn't have leadership armies weren't able to purchase anything.
Long story short, a leadership army essentially became mandatory for playing the game.
Flash forward to today, that's no longer the case-but now, we instead have the case wherein your income isn't sufficient to get certain items, not because prices aren't autoadjusting on the auction house (though that too, but that's a different issue), but rather because prices are fixed, fixed both in terms of astral diamonds (Wondrous Bazaar) and in terms of zen. Now, the cost of items fixed in terms of zen in terms of AD floats, due to the exchange rate. So that too could theoretically correspond to the income level of players. Zen items are, simply put, worth as much as players compare time to money. No contradiction.
But, remember that there were two assumptions at the start of this. We've already stated that the zen shop isn't a problem with changing income levels because of the floating price of the zen. But what does put a death knell in things is that the Wondrous Bazaar exists. If the Wondrous Bazaar was simply removed from the game, and every item necessary for playing the game was a random drop (or alternatively purchasable via gold), then it doesn't matter how much income players have, because the price of all items will adjust to be in terms of income.
Now, there is one last caveat to all this, and that's that goldspammers may have hoards of leftover AD, because they can frankly produce AD faster than they can sell it, and this will definitely prevent prices from stabilizing through normal market activity. I'll concede I don't know how to get around this issue.
I can't prove that this is another example of the arrogant solipsism of Jack Emmert, but it sure smells like it. I only hope that wiser heads will prevail at Cryptic and that some accommodation will be made for the desires of the players. I enjoyed Neverwinter before this nerf, and would not like to see it fail because of corporate egos.