If you were actually paying attention, you'd realize that the argument isn't that you're not supposed to have alts, it's that the alts should exist for the alt's sake.
Uh, this is exactly what many of us have been complaining about. We have alts, that we PLAY (or at least, would LIKE to, but it's near impossible, due to the changes in Mod6). So, in your terms, the alts "exist", 'cos we WANT them to. However, you previously lumped us as "Botters", since we had alts and since we have alts we're obviously "exploiting." That's a pretty baseless assumption and I'm pretty sure you realize you're being the first three letters of that word, by making the assumption that we've got alts to "buff" our "mains."
Once again, both your logic and argument, are flawed.
Well let's face it, they introduced a 15% charge bonus alongside the announcement of this piece of **** news. People are probably still buying Zen from them as we speak...
They can now run to the top brass in the company and say "Hey look, we dropped the bomb on the players but they are still buying our Zen, so rest assure that things are fine in Protectors Enclave... And soon, like before, they will forgive and forget and move on..."
ONE THING sure will happen: you will see people afking or running doing nothing at PVP dom, GG, or dungeons or skirmish! !!!!.. bc of what??? bc they are BOT armies !!!! no matter how you remove Bot, they will find a way !.. and the new way is they all will be on the FIELD with us now.. so MORE PLAYER will be HAMSTER OFF,. and new comer player will see them and then they will simply said: oh no this mmo so many bOTS, i better uninstall !.
i will see what happend after this new patch! i usually spend more than 200 usd per month for this game. if BOTs are all over the FIELD. then sorry NW, i ll leave this game forever. i dont mind spending hundreds dollars to get AD from real money. but if i see bots with FUNNY names running around and damaging the pvp or pve. then i rather quit.! (bc i remember those old days when i play Lineage2,. so sooooo many bots with funny name .. running around disturbing the casual players quest,pve,pvp. and the main problem is,, I CANT EVEN TALK TO THEM! they are mute .. )
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
If you're not playing the game anyway, why are you even bothering to log in?
What value does claiming the VIP pack benefit give you? Just, like, stop playing. Yes, you don't get the benefits from your VIP pack, but so what? You're not playing the game anyway.
Because I paid $100 for it? I may as well get something from it. If Cryptic wants to give me a refund, sure. But I don't see that happening.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Please listen.
You should be able to have alts. Making your alts is great! I applaud. The problem is the existing incentive structure.
In most games, if you have 8 characters, you can't level up 7 of them when you only spend your time playing the 8th. NWO didn't follow that logic. They made it so that you get the greatest benefit out of your characters not by playing them, but by having them exist, and then you can transfer stuff from those characters.
I'm not calling you a cheater for having alts. I am just saying that the existing structure is bad game design.
If there was such a "thing" as AD that was bound to account (let's say no way to transfer it from character to character, it wasn't used to purchase things on the AH, etc: that is, it was only used for Wondrous Bazaar items and those were BtC), then it'd be fine. Leadership would just be the thing your character does to boost itself. But instead we had a warped system that made having alts mandatory to keep pace just for boosting one character.
Either you're playing a bait and switch here, and saying "because alts are justified, we should be able to have alts boost our main," or you're just not listening to what I'm saying.
WHAT I AM NOT SAYING -the game should not be alt friendly -having alts makes you a cheater -the people who used leadership armies are in any way bad people
WHAT I AM SAYING -the incentive structure is designed in such a way as to encourage multiple characters who exist purely to gain in-game currency; this means those people who don't have an interest in having more than one character are at an inherent disadvantage.
We can certainly argue about what a good fix is, and I agree this is NOT a good fix. But if you're going to argue with me, argue against those points because those are the points I'm saying, nothing more.
I agree that the people who call F2Pers leaches and complain about leadership armies as cheaters are full of HAMSTER. Cryptic is basically using "bots" to refer to leadership armies, but I don't agree that that's good language choice. Please stop projecting your dissatisfaction with Cryptic onto me; I'm just trying to present the situation in a sensible way.
So it does appear they are going castrate leadership and leave us with no means of satisfactory AD gain in game.
The sad thing is leadership kept many of us logging in and engaged, even amid many bug filled patches and lackluster updates. Where is the motivation to log in now? Hope we all have already bought VIP and are willing to invoke daily for bound bag clutter? Or perhaps run a few dungeons to get that insulting 3k ad/ea and rewards that are worth less than the price of keys? While you're praying, bend over more in hope your hoard enchants happen to work for a small amount of time (and drop something other then pearls) so you can update artifact gear? Seems if you don't have it refined already, you are out of luck. But you can (and should) always grind dailies, to progress? ...none of which give any AD.
Maybe they aren't maliciously trying to get people to stop playing, and it's merely inept greed, but it's actually getting hard to believe anyone invested in this game could be this clueless and misinformed about it.
True enough, I think they've completely discounted the fact that, for some people, various aspects of the game were what kept them engaged. The game has a lot to offer in terms of diverse options that allow you to set your own challenges. Someone may very well have enjoyed amassing wealth to satisfy their inner hoarder, some may like running dungeons and skirmishes, others solo content. So to those players, that 'is' the game. Regardless of what Cryptic expects or hopes this may achieve, the only thing that is a bona fide guarantee is that something once again has beeen removed without hope nor hint of some light at the end of the tunnel... and peeved a very large segment of their existing playerbase off in the process. Same can be said for the lost dungeons, and the smooth journey to level cap amongst others.
This is obviously a fait de complis and tomorrow will be just another day at the office. I doubt the person responsible for this has lost any sleep. They have convinced themselves this is the correct move, and are likely invulnerable to reasoning in favor of ego. I'm sure there are members of the team that know this is a very poor path to take, but every second Friday they need to make rent. Those are the guys and gals I actually feel a bit sorry for. Noone wants to work for a moron... and I suspect there is a lot of anxiety about what Christmas will be like this year just from this one gaffe alone, nevermind the shopping list of other problems that have festered and emerged since the changing of the guard. Some of those folks probably have kids to feed. I feel for them, but I can not in good conscience drop one more dime into the game after this. There's been one too many ripoffs. It's kept me entertained and likely will for some time to come. If the game dies, then that's too bad, but it's just a game.
ok do not know if this has been address yet, but is RHIX going away ( i will missed that kobold) also I get ONE free dungeon chest key a day, am I going to have to pay another (3500 AD) to open a chest with 3000 AD in it? Plus are the BOON keys going to still cost 8000 - 20000 AD each after this "patch" And what about Dread Boons? Now cost 1000 AD for the first 7 time and 2000 AD the next 17 times for me to get the rewards. I only ask because if you are taking away my extra ability to earn AD will you at least ease some of the "taxes" I have to pay to play. BTW- not that it matters but I would just have made Leadership Task limited to only one of the same job at any given time. Instead of the 3 limit right now, And yes add me to the not to happy about this crowd. Other than weekend I get to play average 3 hours a day plus a log on before work to set up crafters and get last devotion done. Now I will have to spend most of that time running dungeons if I want my (must have) AD I thought you guys were better than WoW
You should be able to have alts. Making your alts is great! I applaud. The problem is the existing incentive structure.
In most games, if you have 8 characters, you can't level up 7 of them when you only spend your time playing the 8th. NWO didn't follow that logic. They made it so that you get the greatest benefit out of your characters not by playing them, but by having them exist, and then you can transfer stuff from those characters.
I'm not calling you a cheater for having alts. I am just saying that the existing structure is bad game design.
If there was such a "thing" as AD that was bound to account (let's say no way to transfer it from character to character, it wasn't used to purchase things on the AH, etc: that is, it was only used for Wondrous Bazaar items and those were BtC), then it'd be fine. Leadership would just be the thing your character does to boost itself. But instead we had a warped system that made having alts mandatory to keep pace just for boosting one character.
Either you're playing a bait and switch here, and saying "because alts are justified, we should be able to have alts boost our main," or you're just not listening to what I'm saying.WHAT I AM NOT SAYING -the game should not be alt friendly -having alts makes you a cheater -the people who used leadership armies are in any way bad people
WHAT I AM SAYING -the incentive structure is designed in such a way as to encourage multiple characters who exist purely to gain in-game currency; this means those people who don't have an interest in having more than one character are at an inherent disadvantage.
We can certainly argue about what a good fix is, and I agree this is NOT a good fix. But if you're going to argue with me, argue against those points because those are the points I'm saying, nothing more.
I agree that the people who call F2Pers leaches and complain about leadership armies as cheaters are full of HAMSTER. Cryptic is basically using "bots" to refer to leadership armies, but I don't agree that that's good language choice. Please stop projecting your dissatisfaction with Cryptic onto me; I'm just trying to present the situation in a sensible way.
Bad logic here. Very. And here's why. In any number of other games that I play online, I am able to take money, items, etc from ONE toon and give it to other toons. In all of those games, I have multiple alts, at least 6 or more. I can use any one of those alts to feed stuff to another, barring toons being on different servers or an item being toon bound.
The AD leadship situation is no different. I earn the AD's on one toon, and use them somewhere else. Just like I might craft a ring on one toon, and give it to another. Leadership w/ multiple alts as it exists isn't mandatory. But it IS SMART playing. That some people have abused this system by creating 20 or MORE alts is the problem. Not the system itself.
What you're not seeing is that this AD change is an extension of certain other policies that NW has enacted and is currently using. For instance, you used to be able to move storage bags around to various toons. But not anymore. All bags are bound to toon. Ditto any of the drops from the bags that you get from invocation, or even the ID scrolls that you get from VIP. Which, once you step back and look, is a system design DELIBERATELY constructed to make alts less viable.
The more I think about it, the more that this AD change seems to be an attempt by NW to force a player to choose one or two toons and play ONLY those toons. Which to many people, including myself, would make the game not worth playing. It's all nice to have ONE super toon, I suppose, but the sheer amount of time needed to accomplish this WITHOUT help from something like the existing Leadership system is ultimately going to make the game no fun to play.
OH. And if someone could drop a link that shows a DEFINITIVE quote that SHOWS NW devs are equating leadership "armies" to "bots" I'd like to see it.
I dont understand cryptic why let us have alt characters if your just going to punish us for having them and in a round about way say were cheatng for using a feature you added to the game and allow us to use.
So cryptic why not just take away the alt character feature that you seem to be punishing players whether it be here or STO for using ,im tired of you cryptic insinuating that we the players are cheating by using features you place in the game.
Wow. What a lovely patch note. Guess i'm no longer donating ad to stronghold coffers until all 20+ of my alts have mythic gear. I love playing my toons. I play all of them. I wish i didn't spam my friend lists every time i swapped alts. i feel sorry for them. I guess im forced to use leadership to gain rp and advance my alts that way. When i open my wallet several time a year to decide if a mod is worth it or not, it averages out to 10 dollars a month. I put up with bugs. I put up with balancing issues. I put up with strange content that i didn't ask for. Looking at you stronghold pvp.
You have a hardcoded party system of 5 players and yet you insist on making content for larger parties.
I payed my hard earned zen for 12 months of vip. That should be a decent amount of time to fix things and make amends.
...and of course, while fixes to gamebreaking patches have had to wait dor ten days, this AD fix has to be installed in an extraorrdinary patch & maint on Tuesday...
The game has been losing the fun, rewards by playing and excitement of the good old days. But let's talk about AD 1st:
At 1st, I didn't like this Leadership nerf against players (not bots... there are hundreds of bots farming in-game right now and I don't see you going there and banning them ASAP). I use leadership to have a consistent amount of AD whenever I can. But if we think better, this change MAY BE heal the game economy, giving the small amounts of AD a meaning. BUT ONLY IF YOU PUT IT ON LIVE CORRECTLY... NOT AS RAW & BOLD AS IT IS RIGHT NOW!
If you disable leggit players the hability to produce AD with Leadership (not counting hugh leadership armies) and you don't compensate them with really well-thought alternatives and do not reduce fixed prices like GMoPs, wards, dungeon keys, Zen store AND AD sinks... it will be just a nerf -plain and simple- and a lot of players will leave. So, after this change hit a lot of us, please complete the circle and adjust prices, drops, rewards, AD gain, rAD ref cap per day and the way we earn it.
I don't like your idea. Rhix's mechanic was simple and useful... beyond your statement of dumb people "forgetting" them. This new system that force us to repeat content a lot more for AD, is awful! The AD gain that vary with time is awful x10. And adding automatic AD in PvP will be a disaster! Like everybody said, prevent this rather than counterback later, or we will be drowing under a mountain of bots and afkers. Beyond any player who pay or not a lot of money, it's obvious that 24k AD per day is not enough to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time and most people won't pay money for each single little update. A lot of people gave you good ideas and tips to tweak your new system, LISTEN TO THEM!
I'm both PvEr/PvPr. I play ALL in-game content, except Foundry since Mod 4, I always find it boring and rewardless. So, about solo PvE content, groupal PvE content and PvP:
►Dungeons: On the last weeks of Mod 2, I was grinding my lvl 60 T2 armor set with a Gear Score of 10-12k :'). I was weak and more casual, but I was enjoying the game SO MUCH! Each time 4 pugs and I were able to finish a hard but fun, leggit and semi-long (fast and cheaty runs ruin the D&D journey) dungeon run (1 of 5 times more or less) the nerves and excitement about getting a BiS piece of gear from the chest start! Sometimes I ended up frustrated with a ring/belt/etc. But if I was lucky: "Yeeaahh... damn yes!!, I got the set piece guys!, I got my piece!!! Oh god! Such an awesome adventure". Tell me with which actually endgame content you get that amount of excitement, fun and joy???, the actual 6 dungeons and their rewards?, 2 skirmishes?, SH content?, the super stupid, boring and recycled Dragonflight thing?? We already had a hugh dose of dragons in 2 entire Mods about dragons and you added in Mod 7 more ¡dragons! Zzzzz -.-'' .
The points here are: •Bring back all dungeons (including GG dungeons) and create new dungeons in the future. •Dungeons should be and remain as the prime and final step of end-game PvE content. •BiS and pre-BiS PvE gear have to be drops or chest rewards from dungeons, ALWAYS. •Make dungeons more rewarding, chests should contain a much wider array of items: RP, currency, AD, etc. •Seals, like seals of Elements and Protector, should be a currency to buy good but inferior end-game gear to use meanwhile you grind the dungeons for BiS gear. Also, seals should be use to empower BiS gear like the silly U. Elements do right now. •Regeants should be drops from bosses. •GMoPs (as necessary as they are right now) should drop from final bosses, a 10% chance i.e. •Make dungeons explorable and entertain, don't force us to do them like 'time trials'. I would be playing Need for Speed, not a D&D game. Conclusion: Now dungeons are excitement, super fun, desirable and highly played again.
►Skirmishes: I'm dreaming with this but come and dream with me guys and devs. Put on live ALL skirmishes at lvl 70, from Blacklake to Aberrant Assault, also including MotH, DL, KR, SoT and adding (Need for Mead, a skirmish-like private instance that it's not much played due to it difficulty and little rewards right now). Who won't play, grind and enjoy a bunch of end-game skirmishes? You people... when was the last time you played Orc Assault, Rothe Valley's Defend the Village or Whispering Caverns skirmish?, and now even better... with a purpuse! You devs that have to recycle content for lack of time or resources, this one would be a big home run!
The points here are: •Lvl 70 skirmishes should be consider as farmable RP content with different tiers. Final bosses dropping Zaphires or Black Opals i.e. depending their tier with a 10% chance. Chests also containing a peridot/aquamarine, AD and seals. •Add all forgotten transmutable items with unique looks. If you haven't notice, the variety of 'looks' that we have now is super small compare with what we had until Mod 6. •Nevermind CTAs events, just choose one skirmish and put in it special rewards like a companion, dyes, etc and it will still be a CTA with that chosen skirmish. Conclusion: Now skirmishes, apart from been excitement, desirable and highly played again... they increase the amount of groupal end-game content a lot... like a fresh and great content improve. And players more happy. Happy customers, more $.
►PvP: Please, if bot activity begin to increase in PvP, bring us solutions ASAP, don't wait until "Mod X: The return of Shadowmantle" to fix that, this lack of fast solutions had been super annoying, (i.e. still waiting the returning of ALL dungeons). PvP, if you have too much work and can't deal with PvP iniciatives to improve PvP contest, give players the tools to help! In the end, we (the players) who support/enjoy/play and spend some of our free time in-game, want the best for it... to keep supporting/enjoying/playing it. For example, create a Foundry contest with a juicy reward where players may create maps. We have had the same 2 Domination maps for a century more or less, plus 2 PvP areas (not much visited right now) and the new Gauntlgrym. Not counting new SH PvP which will be only played by hardcore PvP guilds once people already got their Lion set. The domination maps are pretty small and simple, so I can't believe that any good Foundry user wouldn't gladly create simple new maps for Dom and the devs just would do the final tweaks to put them alive, saving a lot of time and efford for themselves. Devs could simply thanks them with a Facebook spotlight-congratulations-photo post, a mount, a special companion, a Zen Market item or whatever. And instead of having the same old 2 maps for so long, we can have 4, 5 or whatever amount of PvP maps. And this could be just the begining, you could go on farther in some directions! I don't understand why you do not come out with these kind of ideas, the rewards would be for both sides. Also, you can copy and paste Icewind PvP areas and create new queues private instances for Dom PvP... you would have a new 5v5 or 7v7 map.
Some things need to remain free to call it a "Free to Play" game. Right now, it's more "Free to roam" and not very much "Free to compete". I love this game. I want the best for it and the people who are part of it: players and devs. Listen to and between us, ask or pick up ideas from us, consult. For once and all, lets improve this game with the big potential it has. I'm here on the forums to help you devs more than to complain. Let us help you! Good luck all!
The thing that really stands out here is the level of incompetence in the implementation of these major changes.
For arguments sake, let's say earning AD from Leadership isn't good for the game, and needs to be changed. You don't just 'renovate' your house with a sledgehammer overnight. You need a solid design and plan, so your better half doesn't wake up in the morning in a pile of rubble and decide to leave you for someone with better DIY skills...
This is a REALLY bad decision. Personally, I think they'll reverse it, either partially or fully, within a couple of weeks, once they realize they've lost a chunk of customers. I'd guess the damage will already have been done though.
...and of course, while fixes to gamebreaking patches have had to wait dor ten days, this AD fix has to be installed in an extraorrdinary patch & maint on Tuesday...
...you're really keen on losing players, huh?
Well, it will probably take months before any changes are being made to ease the pain from this change, because they might now jump into working on Underdark. And my guess, Underdark will add even more bugs to the pile, because it will also be rushed out as all the modules before.
Anyway, by the time they might even consider to come up with something to help the players gather more AD by "playing the game", there won't be that many real players still playing this game at all.
NWO isn't the only F2P MMO out there, other MMOs are going F2P, new F2P MMOs are either going Beta or are being released... good luck to Cryptic on getting the players back into NWO.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Can I at least produce 7 resonance bags per day now...? Wth good is leadership for now after this.
Can I at least produce 7 resonance bags per day now...? Wth good is leadership for now after this.
Well it has a cool name, no?
Sit back for 2/3 months and give the guys time to "look into this..." for God sake, they need to "review the data"... Don't be a kid asking you want things NOW!
Looking at the initial post from the dev, they can't do the simple math so yeah, they need to get this time to think about what they've done lol.
PE will be a bit more empty, but we will still have some instances in Neverdeath. I wonder why there are so many players in there :*
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Best thing to do is, advice everybody you know not to spend a single dime on this game. Vote withyour wallets.
Already done. Of the 15 personal friends who were still playing 13 of them are quitting. The other two are gluttons for punishment unfortunately. One of the idiots has already spent over $1200 (Canadian) on this game . . . which I was the idiot who enticed him to join us in playing .
Don't feel bad about it man. We've all put a lot of money in this game only to see it not being worth a HAMSTER.
The sad part is that no matter what will happen, there will still be people who have the "faith that dev's will make the game better" = feeding this company with money they do not deserve.
I personally find it insulting and it makes me sick each time I see a stupid move and than a charge bonus or key's sale is announced.
I will just grab a cold beer and sit back to enjoy the mayhem
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Best thing to do is, advice everybody you know not to spend a single dime on this game. Vote withyour wallets.
Already done. Of the 15 personal friends who were still playing 13 of them are quitting. The other two are gluttons for punishment unfortunately. One of the idiots has already spent over $1200 (Canadian) on this game . . . which I was the idiot who enticed him to join us in playing .
I quit the game, and my leader of a 100+ accounts guild stated that he got in contact with our "sibling" guild leaders and they're in the process of quitting as well, so the guild is going bye bye as well.
Be nice if we could get a refund for all the wasted Zen we brought supporting this game, because if alienating the player base is what they are after they are succeeding and that only has one outcome...
A good community needs two things, people with good ideas, and someone to listen to them and put it ingame.
Sadly it's not common to find either of those in any forum, and since last months this is getting worst and worst, but I'm glad to find this kind of proactive positive posts from time to time. The one (among others) from "aleblain" (can't quote due chars limitation) seems very interesting to me.
Please, mods, CM, Devs, forward those messagges to someone with weight inside the company, someone able to take decisions, and let them know that the road they're walking in goes to a dead end... with a huge and painful wall at the end... they've loose the perspective... We all know a company or corp or whatever is made to make proffit... and if you look further in order to achieve this, you should ensure your customers are satisfied with your product, and if not, hear what they are saying and take the correct meassures... the way they're treating the game, with decisions far from correct, are poisoning the community and each day they're loosing customers.... players... so, at least in the name of their own proffit, please hear what the community is trying to tell you/them, with nice options like the one I quoted, and make this game fun and playable againt so all of us/you win...
If you were actually paying attention, you'd realize that the argument isn't that you're not supposed to have alts, it's that the alts should exist for the alt's sake.
Uh, this is exactly what many of us have been complaining about. We have alts, that we PLAY (or at least, would LIKE to, but it's near impossible, due to the changes in Mod6). So, in your terms, the alts "exist", 'cos we WANT them to. However, you previously lumped us as "Botters", since we had alts and since we have alts we're obviously "exploiting." That's a pretty baseless assumption and I'm pretty sure you realize you're being the first three letters of that word, by making the assumption that we've got alts to "buff" our "mains."
Once again, both your logic and argument, are flawed.
THIS! I used to rotatate through my alts. Played all of them, I have 11 total. I only stopped playing 1, since I decided I didn't like the Path after ~level 50 (GW fighter, Iron Vanguard), and I had a Swordsman already. With the advent of Artifact gear, I gave up on most of them. With Elemental Evil, I stopped playing. I came back recently, with the adjustment, but decided I would only play 3. Now, I'll probably quit if this happens.
I'm not a fanatic, play to win type. This isn't the only game I play. If this is endemic to free-to-play, I'll stay with the subscription model thank you. I subscribe to Champions Online. Between my wife and I, we've probably spent close to $1000 over the life of the game.
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Once again, both your logic and argument, are flawed.
They can now run to the top brass in the company and say "Hey look, we dropped the bomb on the players but they are still buying our Zen, so rest assure that things are fine in Protectors Enclave... And soon, like before, they will forgive and forget and move on..."
no matter how you remove Bot, they will find a way !.. and the new way is they all will be on the FIELD with us now.. so MORE PLAYER will be HAMSTER OFF,. and new comer player will see them and then they will simply said: oh no this mmo so many bOTS, i better uninstall !.
i will see what happend after this new patch! i usually spend more than 200 usd per month for this game. if BOTs are all over the FIELD. then sorry NW, i ll leave this game forever.
i dont mind spending hundreds dollars to get AD from real money. but if i see bots with FUNNY names running around and damaging the pvp or pve. then i rather quit.! (bc i remember those old days when i play Lineage2,. so sooooo many bots with funny name .. running around disturbing the casual players quest,pve,pvp. and the main problem is,, I CANT EVEN TALK TO THEM! they are mute .. )
You should be able to have alts. Making your alts is great! I applaud. The problem is the existing incentive structure.
In most games, if you have 8 characters, you can't level up 7 of them when you only spend your time playing the 8th. NWO didn't follow that logic. They made it so that you get the greatest benefit out of your characters not by playing them, but by having them exist, and then you can transfer stuff from those characters.
I'm not calling you a cheater for having alts. I am just saying that the existing structure is bad game design.
If there was such a "thing" as AD that was bound to account (let's say no way to transfer it from character to character, it wasn't used to purchase things on the AH, etc: that is, it was only used for Wondrous Bazaar items and those were BtC), then it'd be fine. Leadership would just be the thing your character does to boost itself. But instead we had a warped system that made having alts mandatory to keep pace just for boosting one character.
Either you're playing a bait and switch here, and saying "because alts are justified, we should be able to have alts boost our main," or you're just not listening to what I'm saying.
WHAT I AM NOT SAYING
-the game should not be alt friendly
-having alts makes you a cheater
-the people who used leadership armies are in any way bad people
WHAT I AM SAYING
-the incentive structure is designed in such a way as to encourage multiple characters who exist purely to gain in-game currency; this means those people who don't have an interest in having more than one character are at an inherent disadvantage.
We can certainly argue about what a good fix is, and I agree this is NOT a good fix. But if you're going to argue with me, argue against those points because those are the points I'm saying, nothing more.
I agree that the people who call F2Pers leaches and complain about leadership armies as cheaters are full of HAMSTER. Cryptic is basically using "bots" to refer to leadership armies, but I don't agree that that's good language choice. Please stop projecting your dissatisfaction with Cryptic onto me; I'm just trying to present the situation in a sensible way.
This is obviously a fait de complis and tomorrow will be just another day at the office. I doubt the person responsible for this has lost any sleep. They have convinced themselves this is the correct move, and are likely invulnerable to reasoning in favor of ego. I'm sure there are members of the team that know this is a very poor path to take, but every second Friday they need to make rent. Those are the guys and gals I actually feel a bit sorry for. Noone wants to work for a moron... and I suspect there is a lot of anxiety about what Christmas will be like this year just from this one gaffe alone, nevermind the shopping list of other problems that have festered and emerged since the changing of the guard. Some of those folks probably have kids to feed. I feel for them, but I can not in good conscience drop one more dime into the game after this. There's been one too many ripoffs. It's kept me entertained and likely will for some time to come. If the game dies, then that's too bad, but it's just a game.
Plus are the BOON keys going to still cost 8000 - 20000 AD each after this "patch" And what about Dread Boons? Now cost 1000 AD for the first 7 time and 2000 AD the next 17 times for me to get the rewards. I only ask because if you are taking away my extra ability to earn AD will you at least ease some of the "taxes" I have to pay to play.
BTW- not that it matters but I would just have made Leadership Task limited to only one of the same job at any given time. Instead of the 3 limit right now, And yes add me to the not to happy about this crowd. Other than weekend I get to play average 3 hours a day plus a log on before work to set up crafters and get last devotion done. Now I will have to spend most of that time running dungeons if I want my (must have) AD I thought you guys were better than WoW
The AD leadship situation is no different. I earn the AD's on one toon, and use them somewhere else. Just like I might craft a ring on one toon, and give it to another. Leadership w/ multiple alts as it exists isn't mandatory. But it IS SMART playing. That some people have abused this system by creating 20 or MORE alts is the problem. Not the system itself.
What you're not seeing is that this AD change is an extension of certain other policies that NW has enacted and is currently using. For instance, you used to be able to move storage bags around to various toons. But not anymore. All bags are bound to toon. Ditto any of the drops from the bags that you get from invocation, or even the ID scrolls that you get from VIP. Which, once you step back and look, is a system design DELIBERATELY constructed to make alts less viable.
The more I think about it, the more that this AD change seems to be an attempt by NW to force a player to choose one or two toons and play ONLY those toons. Which to many people, including myself, would make the game not worth playing. It's all nice to have ONE super toon, I suppose, but the sheer amount of time needed to accomplish this WITHOUT help from something like the existing Leadership system is ultimately going to make the game no fun to play.
OH. And if someone could drop a link that shows a DEFINITIVE quote that SHOWS NW devs are equating leadership "armies" to "bots" I'd like to see it.
thanks
I dont understand cryptic why let us have alt characters if your just going to punish us for having them and in a round about way say were cheatng for using a feature you added to the game and allow us to use.
So cryptic why not just take away the alt character feature that you seem to be punishing players whether it be here or STO for using ,im tired of you cryptic insinuating that we the players are cheating by using features you place in the game.
You have a hardcoded party system of 5 players and yet you insist on making content for larger parties.
I payed my hard earned zen for 12 months of vip. That should be a decent amount of time to fix things and make amends.
...you're really keen on losing players, huh?
At 1st, I didn't like this Leadership nerf against players (not bots... there are hundreds of bots farming in-game right now and I don't see you going there and banning them ASAP). I use leadership to have a consistent amount of AD whenever I can. But if we think better, this change MAY BE heal the game economy, giving the small amounts of AD a meaning. BUT ONLY IF YOU PUT IT ON LIVE CORRECTLY... NOT AS RAW & BOLD AS IT IS RIGHT NOW!
If you disable leggit players the hability to produce AD with Leadership (not counting hugh leadership armies) and you don't compensate them with really well-thought alternatives and do not reduce fixed prices like GMoPs, wards, dungeon keys, Zen store AND AD sinks... it will be just a nerf -plain and simple- and a lot of players will leave. So, after this change hit a lot of us, please complete the circle and adjust prices, drops, rewards, AD gain, rAD ref cap per day and the way we earn it.
I don't like your idea. Rhix's mechanic was simple and useful... beyond your statement of dumb people "forgetting" them. This new system that force us to repeat content a lot more for AD, is awful! The AD gain that vary with time is awful x10. And adding automatic AD in PvP will be a disaster! Like everybody said, prevent this rather than counterback later, or we will be drowing under a mountain of bots and afkers. Beyond any player who pay or not a lot of money, it's obvious that 24k AD per day is not enough to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time and most people won't pay money for each single little update. A lot of people gave you good ideas and tips to tweak your new system, LISTEN TO THEM!
I'm both PvEr/PvPr. I play ALL in-game content, except Foundry since Mod 4, I always find it boring and rewardless. So, about solo PvE content, groupal PvE content and PvP:
►Dungeons:
On the last weeks of Mod 2, I was grinding my lvl 60 T2 armor set with a Gear Score of 10-12k :'). I was weak and more casual, but I was enjoying the game SO MUCH! Each time 4 pugs and I were able to finish a hard but fun, leggit and semi-long (fast and cheaty runs ruin the D&D journey) dungeon run (1 of 5 times more or less) the nerves and excitement about getting a BiS piece of gear from the chest start! Sometimes I ended up frustrated with a ring/belt/etc. But if I was lucky: "Yeeaahh... damn yes!!, I got the set piece guys!, I got my piece!!! Oh god! Such an awesome adventure". Tell me with which actually endgame content you get that amount of excitement, fun and joy???, the actual 6 dungeons and their rewards?, 2 skirmishes?, SH content?, the super stupid, boring and recycled Dragonflight thing?? We already had a hugh dose of dragons in 2 entire Mods about dragons and you added in Mod 7 more ¡dragons! Zzzzz -.-'' .
The points here are:
•Bring back all dungeons (including GG dungeons) and create new dungeons in the future.
•Dungeons should be and remain as the prime and final step of end-game PvE content.
•BiS and pre-BiS PvE gear have to be drops or chest rewards from dungeons, ALWAYS.
•Make dungeons more rewarding, chests should contain a much wider array of items: RP, currency, AD, etc.
•Seals, like seals of Elements and Protector, should be a currency to buy good but inferior end-game gear to use meanwhile you grind the dungeons for BiS gear. Also, seals should be use to empower BiS gear like the silly U. Elements do right now.
•Regeants should be drops from bosses.
•GMoPs (as necessary as they are right now) should drop from final bosses, a 10% chance i.e.
•Make dungeons explorable and entertain, don't force us to do them like 'time trials'. I would be playing Need for Speed, not a D&D game.
Conclusion: Now dungeons are excitement, super fun, desirable and highly played again.
►Skirmishes:
I'm dreaming with this but come and dream with me guys and devs. Put on live ALL skirmishes at lvl 70, from Blacklake to Aberrant Assault, also including MotH, DL, KR, SoT and adding (Need for Mead, a skirmish-like private instance that it's not much played due to it difficulty and little rewards right now). Who won't play, grind and enjoy a bunch of end-game skirmishes? You people... when was the last time you played Orc Assault, Rothe Valley's Defend the Village or Whispering Caverns skirmish?, and now even better... with a purpuse! You devs that have to recycle content for lack of time or resources, this one would be a big home run!
The points here are:
•Lvl 70 skirmishes should be consider as farmable RP content with different tiers. Final bosses dropping Zaphires or Black Opals i.e. depending their tier with a 10% chance. Chests also containing a peridot/aquamarine, AD and seals.
•Add all forgotten transmutable items with unique looks. If you haven't notice, the variety of 'looks' that we have now is super small compare with what we had until Mod 6.
•Nevermind CTAs events, just choose one skirmish and put in it special rewards like a companion, dyes, etc and it will still be a CTA with that chosen skirmish.
Conclusion: Now skirmishes, apart from been excitement, desirable and highly played again... they increase the amount of groupal end-game content a lot... like a fresh and great content improve. And players more happy. Happy customers, more $.
►PvP:
Please, if bot activity begin to increase in PvP, bring us solutions ASAP, don't wait until "Mod X: The return of Shadowmantle" to fix that, this lack of fast solutions had been super annoying, (i.e. still waiting the returning of ALL dungeons). PvP, if you have too much work and can't deal with PvP iniciatives to improve PvP contest, give players the tools to help! In the end, we (the players) who support/enjoy/play and spend some of our free time in-game, want the best for it... to keep supporting/enjoying/playing it. For example, create a Foundry contest with a juicy reward where players may create maps. We have had the same 2 Domination maps for a century more or less, plus 2 PvP areas (not much visited right now) and the new Gauntlgrym. Not counting new SH PvP which will be only played by hardcore PvP guilds once people already got their Lion set. The domination maps are pretty small and simple, so I can't believe that any good Foundry user wouldn't gladly create simple new maps for Dom and the devs just would do the final tweaks to put them alive, saving a lot of time and efford for themselves. Devs could simply thanks them with a Facebook spotlight-congratulations-photo post, a mount, a special companion, a Zen Market item or whatever. And instead of having the same old 2 maps for so long, we can have 4, 5 or whatever amount of PvP maps. And this could be just the begining, you could go on farther in some directions! I don't understand why you do not come out with these kind of ideas, the rewards would be for both sides. Also, you can copy and paste Icewind PvP areas and create new queues private instances for Dom PvP... you would have a new 5v5 or 7v7 map.
Some things need to remain free to call it a "Free to Play" game. Right now, it's more "Free to roam" and not very much "Free to compete". I love this game. I want the best for it and the people who are part of it: players and devs. Listen to and between us, ask or pick up ideas from us, consult. For once and all, lets improve this game with the big potential it has. I'm here on the forums to help you devs more than to complain. Let us help you! Good luck all!
For arguments sake, let's say earning AD from Leadership isn't good for the game, and needs to be changed. You don't just 'renovate' your house with a sledgehammer overnight. You need a solid design and plan, so your better half doesn't wake up in the morning in a pile of rubble and decide to leave you for someone with better DIY skills...
This is a REALLY bad decision. Personally, I think they'll reverse it, either partially or fully, within a couple of weeks, once they realize they've lost a chunk of customers. I'd guess the damage will already have been done though.
And my guess, Underdark will add even more bugs to the pile, because it will also be rushed out as all the modules before.
Anyway, by the time they might even consider to come up with something to help the players gather more AD by "playing the game", there won't be that many real players still playing this game at all.
NWO isn't the only F2P MMO out there, other MMOs are going F2P, new F2P MMOs are either going Beta or are being released... good luck to Cryptic on getting the players back into NWO.
Sit back for 2/3 months and give the guys time to "look into this..." for God sake, they need to "review the data"...
Don't be a kid asking you want things NOW!
Looking at the initial post from the dev, they can't do the simple math so yeah, they need to get this time to think about what they've done lol.
PE will be a bit more empty, but we will still have some instances in Neverdeath. I wonder why there are so many players in there :*
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Best thing to do is, advice everybody you know not to spend a single dime on this game. Vote withyour wallets.
The sad part is that no matter what will happen, there will still be people who have the "faith that dev's will make the game better" = feeding this company with money they do not deserve.
I personally find it insulting and it makes me sick each time I see a stupid move and than a charge bonus or key's sale is announced.
I will just grab a cold beer and sit back to enjoy the mayhem
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Hi all,
A good community needs two things, people with good ideas, and someone to listen to them and put it ingame.
Sadly it's not common to find either of those in any forum, and since last months this is getting worst and worst, but I'm glad to find this kind of proactive positive posts from time to time. The one (among others) from "aleblain" (can't quote due chars limitation) seems very interesting to me.
Please, mods, CM, Devs, forward those messagges to someone with weight inside the company, someone able to take decisions, and let them know that the road they're walking in goes to a dead end... with a huge and painful wall at the end... they've loose the perspective... We all know a company or corp or whatever is made to make proffit... and if you look further in order to achieve this, you should ensure your customers are satisfied with your product, and if not, hear what they are saying and take the correct meassures... the way they're treating the game, with decisions far from correct, are poisoning the community and each day they're loosing customers.... players... so, at least in the name of their own proffit, please hear what the community is trying to tell you/them, with nice options like the one I quoted, and make this game fun and playable againt so all of us/you win...
BR
Divide and conquer
Good job Cryptic!
But it's not clear what they will conquer at the end....
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I'm not a fanatic, play to win type. This isn't the only game I play. If this is endemic to free-to-play, I'll stay with the subscription model thank you. I subscribe to Champions Online. Between my wife and I, we've probably spent close to $1000 over the life of the game.