Okay this might be a bit controversial and maybe seen as me bashing the devs and all but I'm not intending to. The devs probably do the best with what they've got.
Anyways why is AD so important to all of us? It's currency sure and there are so many things you can only buy with currency. We are focusing on this because the way things have shaken out is I think the devs have not been given the resources to make enough new content so are trying to find clever ways of making us play the old content over and over.
I think what would solve most of this is LOTS and LOTS of new content with new items to find, places to explore and new things to do. Mod 6 introduced 4 new zones (which were largely reskinned old zones), and while strongholds has introduced a large new map and it's great, it's pretty much the same monsters we've seen with a few new quests.
If not for all these problems and if it were possible to find new stuff and there were new things to explore and more items to find and even possibly sell. In short - more reason to spend more time in game. I think if they did that the AD thing would not be such a big issue, but unfortunately I think given the state of the game right now this was not the time to make this change.
I hear ya. I am already cringing at how much less AD I'll be able to make but really, all this means is I no longer will be spending all my time making that AD and instead will now be running skirmishes, delves, and so on. So, this is that push I personally needed to stop myself from only playing the "leadership game."
Lets see how many players will think its fun to play a game where you cant progress at all. Since the devs didn't say anything about the prices of vendors (like gmarks, wards etc) I'm gonna assume (like everyone else) that they stay like they are now. Nobody will afford anything and the game will get boring really fast.
Even if they change the price on vendors everyone is going to feel jilted when they spent 1.7 million AD on 20 GMoPs and it goes for 600k or some nonsense a week later.
(I know I am. I just blew 3 million on RP for tomorrow : | )
You know whats really sad, is that I've used this access to AD to support and encourage sooo many new users to this game over time, and that will go away. There will be no way to give someone a bit of a boost (like the 2 blue level horses I gave away this week so they could keep up with the group) so they can enjoy the game without having to spend hours upon hours playing. Now they will be totally on their own, and to get the content, they will need the gear, which they will need to play the content to get, etc etc. New players are going to be hurt a lot by this as well as those of us who have invested in this game.
I like the idea, I just hate that this idea focus' purely on the fact that we only have 6 dungeons and 2 skirmishes whereas we had a bajillion before. How bout you enable some old dungeons and drop the rewards down a lil so we can get some spiced up entertainment. Theres only so many elol's I can run before I vomit Astral diamonds all over my keyboard.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Another thing: while I agree with the changes. This risks of putting Leadership in a really bad place, considering the profession is the slowest to progress in the game.
Will we be seeing a subsantial boost in the Crafting EXP awarded by Leadership Tasks to bring it in line with other profressions in advancement? I believe it would be fair, now that AD is gone.
Why would the care, they completely killed artificng and weaponsmithing and everything but leadership only provide marginal value outside of those that spend big bucks on professions resources. They have never paid that much attention to professions, not sure that will change.
Maybe its time they remove all the stuff in game they don't want to spend effort on and focus on just the few things they do enjoy. Most of the dungeons are already gone.
How does this solve the bot issue? The bots will just run the content that gives them AD. They have proven they can run content to get ad. The bots don't care how they make AD they will always find a way! This is the dumbest move in the game.
I have seen a player with five accounts. Put all five accounts in a party and use a follow to keep them grouped as he completed a T2 dungeon (the followers used macro's to spam attacks. He played the lead character. If this can be done, how hard would it be to script the lead character through the dungeon?
Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse than it actually is.
You get less AD. YES. The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES. Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES.
A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen over a night, but I think this is the long term goal.
And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
GMoPs, Wards, lockbox keys, boons, professions tasks have fixed costs. Increasing the value of AD on stuff we don't need doesn't help us.
Aside from that, Salvaging epic equipment currently is almost pointless as the amount of time spent in earning it does not justify its maximum of 10k salvage cost. A suggestion to fix that would be to make it so that Epic Equipment earned at 70 salvages currently for 3-4x its current amount, if not more.
Another problem is that while time can mean AD, it also means Stronghold time. A huge time AND AD sink has just been introduced in the game, and the fairly decent AD my leadership was bringing in gave me the TIME to focus on helping my guild get everything built and upgraded. So much for that now.
Agreed this forces F2Ps to pick between farming SH currencies and making AD.
P.S. Did you have the thought that bots have always adjusted there methods since the beginning everytime you nerf something. LOL it will still apply now...... just watch.
That's because you fix an exploit by devaluing the reward. For some reason cryptic thinks increase the awards value will from exploitation will deter exploiters.
I think AD being part of leadership was always a mistake and this is a correction long in the making. That said, with what is truly a reduction in the amount of AD available to the average person, a quick reduction to the costs of GMOPs, companion/mount/guild upgrading, transmuting should be made else another large exodus of the player-base can be a reality.
Someone who plays daily should not be trapped behind a paywall to be competitive with the rest of the community. If Cryptic just wants to make this a game playable by those that pay them regularly, then overtly do it and let customers know the actual direction that the company wants to take the game. Make it subscription, and let those that previously invested in a microtransaction freemium model just move on.
The reality is, no amount of grinding will make it possible for a player to be competitive in the current paradigm. Having played since May 2014, a ridiculous amount of hours, I only now managed to buy my first rank 10 enchantment. These things are not generally accessible in-game because of the AD sinks, and if you've done PvP at all recently, rank 7s or lesser are getting a player nowhere quickly.
In regards to leadership; it's one of the hardest professions to get to max level. Though it is a background source yes, it takes lots of time and up-keeping in order to max it. That's still part of "playing the game".
SOLO ISSUE: Solo players will LOVE THIS. Oh wait, no, they will probably all quit. Promises of "we are looking into it" are probably not going to tide them over. Maybe some of them will come back...
Where are the AD for campaign tasks, daily task, SOLO TASKS????? Playing the game does not = Skirmishes, PVP and Dungeons for all your players. Those need to go in WITH this change not at some unspecified future date.
ECONOMY ISSUES: How are we *ever* supposed to afford GMOPS or stronghold upgrades (AD sink, surplus equipment- no one is going to want to donate their purples if that is a lone sorce of AD) in your new economy? How are new people or characters (since apparently we will now instead need to gear up a *DUNGEON* army instead of a leadership army)- supposed to afford rings from professions, black ice combines, etc.
MORALE ISSUES: I've been looking forward to 2xRP for EVER - remember it was supposed to be a reward? Now I feel like I can't afford the GMOPS I needed to take advantage of it... guys you ruined my Christmas.
VIP- This feels like bait and switch. Buy months into the game while we yoink your ability to afford to play it!
SUMMARY: It's insane to announce this change without a tandem source for true solo players and addressing the current AD sinks in the game- especially the one that JUST launched in the last mod.
Congratulations. You've finally put the last nail in the coffin for this game. I guess you only want your level 70 players to have any way to earn AD. As a mostly solo player who does not do PVP or Foundry, I will only be able to make roughly 3k AD if I have time to run Skirmishes after doing all my Dailies for boons and Stronghold currencies. I wish I had known this was coming before I spent real money on VIP because I sure as h*** would NOT have done it! I hope you enjoy it because you will definitely not be getting any more money from me. I was going to renew my VIP in a few days but you can totally forget about that now. As for new players, I seriously doubt very many will stay around when they figure out that they will never be able to afford to advance their characters with AD. At least with leadership there was a way ( after a VERY long time. ) to eventually be able to. But it just won't be worth it any more. As an example, making me grind Skirmishes daily for about a month to be able to afford ONE GMOP ? Good luck with that. I expect the mass exodus to begin and with little new players sticking around, this game's future look very bleak. I hope I'm wrong but I highly doubt it.
So instead of working to find a way to identify and shut down botters you're punishing the people who actually play and spend money on it? Well that's just genius, why didn't I think of it? Congratulations, you're nerfing the game into extinction.
I think AD being part of leadership was always a mistake and this is a correction long in the making. That said, with what is truly a reduction in the amount of AD available to the average person, a quick reduction to the costs of GMOPs, companion/mount/guild upgrading, transmuting should be made else another large exodus of the player-base can be a reality. .
"Can?" It will. Cryptic does not hold a monopoly on the high fantasy MMO genre. People who feel burned, like those of us who spent AD on leadership assets, will feel rightfully irked, we're clearly not getting as much going by the math previously demonstrated and people who now have to go for weeks between leveling up a single enchant (or who can kiss goodbye the dream of actually getting our new alts to a viable IL to participate in end game content) will tell Cryptic exactly where they can shove it, before they leave for a game that hasn't forgotten the old adage of "the wise shepard sheers his flock, he does not skin it."
I must be in the minority but I like the changes. there has been a topic about this on the forums for quite some while. I don't think the main source of AD in NW should be an activity that doesn't require to actively play like leadership or invoking. I understand that many people will be mad, and they have all the right to be, after all many have spent lots of real money into character slots and lots of time to level leadership to have their own leadership army, but I believe it is necesary to fix the economy. prices in the market will go down after a while, but the prices for GMOPs and anithing sold by cryptic have to go down too or no one will be able to get enough AD for their own progression.
edit: I really hate that NOTHING was said about the foundry, once again....
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
People jumped to leadership in the first place because playing the game does not reward enough. Jumping the reward from 4000 to 6000 doesn't even come close to being rewarding.
Triple it, then I'd consider it a change in the right direction. Triple all sources of AD rewards.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited September 2015
I couldn't play the game for the last few weeks, and all I can say is that I care less and less about what changes you make. I feel less and less connected to the game. But let me tell you what I think about the changes. I've invested a lot of time and resources in leadership precisely because I could generate AD. Now I feel cheated and robbed. I don't care how you put it, in the end it's the same thing. Leadership is just as it was when the game launched, but somehow now it's not what you wanted it to be? What exactly did you want it to be? It all sounds like HAMSTER when you talk about how you envision some aspect of the game. And yes, I think the changes are beneficial for the game, but after two years ... You gotta be kidding.
As a PS : I don't trust you. I dont believe in your good intentions or your concern for the economy.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
So how long til this actually happens? Guess it's time to just run nothing but AD tasks on leadership alts.
The changes are on preview now, so I'm guessing a week or 2?
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Wipe all actual ad on the serwer.Drastical but fix everthing.Then bring back Dungeons and fix loot form the chest:) Simple.
Drastic? I think we are already far past drastic. You don't have to wipe all AD but just cap everyone at 1 mil and be done with it. AH prices will drop to nothing because nobody will be able to afford the current prices.
Oh wait, bots will! Bots can still farm enchantments! ***FACEPALM***
Could solve all of this by actually having a few in-game GMs.
I do agree, regardless of these AD changes (though I think they should have been done long long long ago) Cryptic will STILL need to combat bots. Bots will simply move the target.
This attempt to make the AD accrual based on actually playing the game is a GREAT idea, with the caveat that Cryptic must fix campfire botting in PVP (for instance, if X contiguous time is spent in the campfire area, you get no rewards at all).
However, something else needs to be done to combat the other bot farm practices, like with enchant farming.
Campaign - Trail of the Imaskarcana (NWS-DMFG77QOF)
Wow, this has everybody so upset, the game is empty. This is a clear attack on your investors, us, the players. We are the ones who invested money on profession resources, extra characters slots and so on. If this happens I expect a few of your angry investors to might do something about it. I hope you have thought of this and what social media and press can do to a game when investors lose their investment, this has the potential to destroy this game and perhaps more. Please Please start paying attention to your investors, the players, before you lose them.
So how long til this actually happens? Guess it's time to just run nothing but AD tasks on leadership alts.
The changes are on preview now, so I'm guessing a week or 2?
LOL yeah right it will go live tomorrow. I would put AD on it but AD will be a Unicorn as of tomorrow!
I don't think it's going to go live tomorrow, as tomorrow has no patch, just a server restart.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
It was my whole idea of dumping millions into leadership so I'd have a stable income months later to actually afford all these vastly overpriced items......
1 character alone needs like 20+ GMoP to upgrade their gear. How the hell are you going to get 2m AD by begging people to join you in farming skirmishes and dungeons 12 hours a day for several days?
It was my whole idea of dumping millions into leadership so I'd have a stable income months later to actually afford all these vastly overpriced items......
1 character alone needs like 20+ GMoP to upgrade their gear. How the hell are you going to get 2m AD by begging people to join you in farming skirmishes and dungeons 12 hours a day for several days?
ghoulz hit the nail on the head here.
I have been playing for a little over a year and I have busted my tail to be able to get a couple of them to a DECENT level.
Now, with needing 20 Greater Mark of Potencies for ONE character to upgrade his/her artifacts... not to mention the ones I'll need for artifact EQUIPMENT. Greater mark of potency, 10k incoming? It better be, and soon! Drop a '0' off of a LOT of the items and you MIGHT NOT .... note: MIGHT NOT lose 90% of your playerbase!
If I can't upgrade my character's equipment to make myself more viable in dungeons, then why bother bashing my head into a wall for days upon days upon days for *1* greater mark? Yeahhhh, that's not going to happen.
I hope there is a huge announcement SOON that all items that have to be purchased with diamonds will have a '0' dropped off of them and coalescent wards will be available with diamonds for those of us that DO run dungeons/skirmishes (the pvp in this game, imo, is just a joke) to go along with Cryptic's ridiculous mindset with this change.
Yea, though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil for *I* am the meanest entity in the Valley!
Previously, there were separate daily quests that, if you remembered to take them, would reward bonus AD for completing Dungeons, Skirmishes, PvP, and Foundry.
*snip*
Scott Shicoff Lead Designer
You never mentioned again after that what will happen to the daily foundry AD bonus.
Comments
Anyways why is AD so important to all of us? It's currency sure and there are so many things you can only buy with currency. We are focusing on this because the way things have shaken out is I think the devs have not been given the resources to make enough new content so are trying to find clever ways of making us play the old content over and over.
I think what would solve most of this is LOTS and LOTS of new content with new items to find, places to explore and new things to do. Mod 6 introduced 4 new zones (which were largely reskinned old zones), and while strongholds has introduced a large new map and it's great, it's pretty much the same monsters we've seen with a few new quests.
If not for all these problems and if it were possible to find new stuff and there were new things to explore and more items to find and even possibly sell. In short - more reason to spend more time in game. I think if they did that the AD thing would not be such a big issue, but unfortunately I think given the state of the game right now this was not the time to make this change.
Even if they change the price on vendors everyone is going to feel jilted when they spent 1.7 million AD on 20 GMoPs and it goes for 600k or some nonsense a week later.
(I know I am. I just blew 3 million on RP for tomorrow : | )
cheers
Ello
Maybe its time they remove all the stuff in game they don't want to spend effort on and focus on just the few things they do enjoy. Most of the dungeons are already gone. I have seen a player with five accounts. Put all five accounts in a party and use a follow to keep them grouped as he completed a T2 dungeon (the followers used macro's to spam attacks. He played the lead character. If this can be done, how hard would it be to script the lead character through the dungeon?
GMoPs, Wards, lockbox keys, boons, professions tasks have fixed costs. Increasing the value of AD on stuff we don't need doesn't help us.
That's because not everyone plays the forum mini-game as much as we do
and let us sell farmed gear on the AH again People leveling don't have access to salvage and they are the people who need AD the most Agreed this forces F2Ps to pick between farming SH currencies and making AD. That's because you fix an exploit by devaluing the reward. For some reason cryptic thinks increase the awards value will from exploitation will deter exploiters.
(Mod note: removed moderation commentary)
Someone who plays daily should not be trapped behind a paywall to be competitive with the rest of the community. If Cryptic just wants to make this a game playable by those that pay them regularly, then overtly do it and let customers know the actual direction that the company wants to take the game. Make it subscription, and let those that previously invested in a microtransaction freemium model just move on.
The reality is, no amount of grinding will make it possible for a player to be competitive in the current paradigm. Having played since May 2014, a ridiculous amount of hours, I only now managed to buy my first rank 10 enchantment. These things are not generally accessible in-game because of the AD sinks, and if you've done PvP at all recently, rank 7s or lesser are getting a player nowhere quickly.
I don't think the main source of AD in NW should be an activity that doesn't require to actively play like leadership or invoking.
I understand that many people will be mad, and they have all the right to be, after all many have spent lots of real money into character slots and lots of time to level leadership to have their own leadership army, but I believe it is necesary to fix the economy.
prices in the market will go down after a while, but the prices for GMOPs and anithing sold by cryptic have to go down too or no one will be able to get enough AD for their own progression.
edit: I really hate that NOTHING was said about the foundry, once again....
Triple it, then I'd consider it a change in the right direction. Triple all sources of AD rewards.
And yes, I think the changes are beneficial for the game, but after two years ... You gotta be kidding.
As a PS : I don't trust you. I dont believe in your good intentions or your concern for the economy.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
This attempt to make the AD accrual based on actually playing the game is a GREAT idea, with the caveat that Cryptic must fix campfire botting in PVP (for instance, if X contiguous time is spent in the campfire area, you get no rewards at all).
However, something else needs to be done to combat the other bot farm practices, like with enchant farming.
cheers
Ello
SOLO PLAYER!
Give rewards for PLAYING the game - reward SOLO play too!
I can't stand the 'group' activities, skirmish/dungeons, and hate PvP.
But I put in HOURS of GAME PLAY per day.
(and this is after raising the difficulty past solo in the SOLO AREAS!)
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I have been playing for a little over a year and I have busted my tail to be able to get a couple of them to a DECENT level.
Now, with needing 20 Greater Mark of Potencies for ONE character to upgrade his/her artifacts... not to mention the ones I'll need for artifact EQUIPMENT. Greater mark of potency, 10k incoming? It better be, and soon! Drop a '0' off of a LOT of the items and you MIGHT NOT .... note: MIGHT NOT lose 90% of your playerbase!
If I can't upgrade my character's equipment to make myself more viable in dungeons, then why bother bashing my head into a wall for days upon days upon days for *1* greater mark? Yeahhhh, that's not going to happen.
I hope there is a huge announcement SOON that all items that have to be purchased with diamonds will have a '0' dropped off of them and coalescent wards will be available with diamonds for those of us that DO run dungeons/skirmishes (the pvp in this game, imo, is just a joke) to go along with Cryptic's ridiculous mindset with this change.
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