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Astral Diamond Changes

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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    I think offering AD as a reward for a PvP match (and possibly skimishes too) is just going to lead to mass bot farming like it used to be (but probably worse). It's disappointing to me that you have chosen to not offer AD through leadership anymore. I don't have enough time in the day to beg people to skirmish and dungeon and PvP with me.

    Sometimes you'll log in and can't find anyone to farm with...

    So then what? You go dry. How fair is that...?
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    The game will not die over this. I just hope new people will replace all those who will surely leave
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • khareqanwikhareqanwi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 17 Arc User

    I do not like this.
    At all.
    I have spent much time AND money building up a legitimate in-game source of currency (16 chars, most maxed leadership) to try to gear up one 'main' character, and you now tell me that it is worthless. ...

    Didn't see your message until I posted mine. You said it better except for not mentioning VIP. 30 chars, maxed leadership, just to get one character the best gear... I didn't make it. Its all worthless.

  • adent086adent086 Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    Yep. It's time to shop for a new title. I held on through the incompleteness that was mod 4. Through the sloppy mess that was mod 5. Through the abusive travesty that was mod 6. Actually had a modicum of hope back in me with mod 7. But, that is how cruelty is felt most keenly, right? When you've been given a bit of hope first.

    Now, this........

    If none of the other signals were screaming at you to leave before; you should be hearing this one loud and clear now. Not for the sheer stupidity of it. Not for the sudden travesty of it. Not even for the abject sadism of it. No. Its for the obvious DESPERATION of this move; especially when followed so quickly after the "VIP" rollout. This game, and the companies that run it, are OBVIOUSLY in deep financial trouble. This fact is made perfectly clear in their publically available quarterly and yearly reports. (Look them up for yourselves if I am not believed.) This move is just the icing on the cake of proof of how bad the situation must be.

    So, even if this move WASN'T the horrid, abject, sadistic, betrayal of the players that it is; this game is still going no where good. Fast. The proof is all there, out in the open, for those that care to look.

    In summary: Farewell Neverwinter, you could have been great for years to come; and honestly, I was hoping you would be. But, nothing can overcome gross mismanagement and soulless greed it seems.

    Peace all.

    Telling us about upcoming content updates, and getting those updates out the door BUG-FREE, is *AWESOME*!! Know what's even *MORE* awesome? Fixing game breaking bugs (and/or undocumented "features") that have been in EXISTING content for months/years!!! Guess which one makes me want to spend money on a game much more than the other? Hint: It's the "more awesome" one.
  • rodrant64rodrant64 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    New players will have a lot to look forward to in the "new" NW, like bot-filled dungeon, skirmish and PVP parties while having to compete against the rich who'll just become even richer thanks to the poor getting cut off at the knees.

    Oh and maybe some "new" dungeons somewhere down the line, which'll just be the old dungeons that they gutted out of the game months ago.
    Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance!
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    TR: Rodran
    DC: Rodrat
    GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
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  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Just have all in-game activity, quests etc give AD. Then everyone who plays the game in their own way can get AD. Just limiting it to PvP, dungeons and skirmishes leaves out a big portion of the player base that only like to play solo. That or increase the amount given with invoking.
  • j3poysyj3poysy Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    This is like CHemotheraphy. IT may kill the Cancer while poisoning the host, to save the healthy cells... Some healthy cell will die in the process,

    I wouldnt know iF neverwinter will survive this. i am sure most LEgit players wont.

    I can see playing this game still.. all i need to do is hoard my AD sell my zen gear my alts. ILl survive the problem is do i have anyone to play with..

    IF chosen between a SERver Wipe and this.. im 75% on the wipe. The economy itself is soo polluted.

    Wel lastly strongholds will be the first one to die. its the greediest thing that lives with AD.

    HEy i might be wrong, i do like this game. played here since beta. I would be lying if not for leadership would i stay playing, being 80% of my AD revenue is from 20 alts i do invoke, leadership with. some i farm from dailies and events.

    See you in the other side (SYOTOS)... HEaven HEll or LIFE.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,630 Arc User
    I agree that all quests should be given a small amount of AD, 500 each for the first 10 and dump the AD for Skirmishes over 4/day. I can do over 12 quests a day with my main toon and 2-5 with my alts. There's no time for Foundry because the every other and sometime every week Events, Maybe cut hose down to every 3rd weekend which would give you a weekend after the Winter and Summer Festivals to do Foundry, For AD Rewards (500 AD/15 min of content).

    All quests in all zones should give AD, even if in small amounts. There are some people that for whatever reasons do not run dungeons, PvP, skirmishes etc. But they are still playing the game in their own ways. I personally prefer to just run the campaign zones only, and stronghold content. This to me is just them trying to force people to play the game only one way if you want to get anything. Another way to push casual players and smaller guilds out of the game.

  • baeyornbaeyorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    Oh boy...

    I can see this hitting me real hard..

    I have 10 characters +, with five I play everyday. rest are all max level, with 10 of them at max leadership.

    I use the other characters as suppport characters for the main 5. Invoke rewards, etc..

    As to leadership, I generally cleared 88000 a day in RAD, across 10 char plus ( 4k x 3, 1.6k x 3)

    With the removal of AD from leadership, I will drop to about 30k rad per day. Meaning I will earn 6k RAD each on the 5 characters I play.

    It roughly cuts my RAD income by 2/3...

    which means it will take me 3 times as long to have the AD I need for GMOP, ZAX, etc.

    The grind hath been increased ffolkes.

    Last thought.. The thoughts of running MOH, Dread Ring, Kessels ad nasuem will bore me to death. Throw in running current epic dungeons and normal dungeons.. which I have run already until I am nearly a mindless zombie running it.. even ETOS, ECC, MV, VT, etc.

    Now a caveat...

    I do agree something had to be done about sources of AD, but to paraphrase Bear Bryant, former Alabama football coach..

    "It seems you are burning down the barn to kill the rats"

    As always will muddle through best I can.

  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    My Opinion.


    The ability to gain more ad from doing what you enjoy is good. BUT you should not force players to do all 3 multiple times to get their 24k they used to have access too or we will see a huge number of AFK PvP bots, AFK Skirmish runners, and Toxic Dungeon runs with kicking for the fastest possible complete time too get their AD. this is not what we want.

    I have never really used leadership for the AD reward. so that doesnt phase me.

    The potential ad gain looks actually NERFED by these changes (not counting leadership changes, purely looking at daily AD gain + hourly) Not buffed. This will lose players who used to rely on leadership / spamming dungeon runs in dungeon hour, etc. I used to love queuing for dungeons in dungeon hour, because I knew people would queue also. now its even more spread out and queues will potentially get longer.

    you need to seriously increase the Rough AD from doing these things by at least 60-80%. People should be able to hit their Rough CAP playing the game they enjoy. SO if you enjoy PVP and GG. you should be able to get up to 24k from PVP and GG content. if people enjoy Dungeons / Skirmishes, they should be able to hit their 24k CAP from that. if people like a mix, do both. Personally I still dont like a 24k cap and think that 30k-50k cap is needed due to the price inflation in game currently, which will not be fixed in a short amount of time.

    Leadership. Add Bound RP instead of AD too all the tasks you removed AD from. Give it some purpose!!!.

    Stronghold Dailies. Since you've now nerfed a lot of players AD gain, Filling the AD coffer will be a lot harder for guilds. I suggest adding (AD Vouchers) as a Rare drop from Stronghold HE's (Great success) that provide 10-50k worth of AD to the stronghold. Make these tradable if you want. or make them bound. Considering its in a guild instance it'd be a lot easier too see where bots are involved and where they arent from amount / patterns . You could even make it so these Vouchers are in special boxes where you have to do a basic puzzle before getting the reward (making it a bit more bot proof)
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    I foreaee bot army invading pvp ground... and A LOT of it... wont be suprised if half of the team are bots sitting there for AD rewards.. and this probably gonna be 24-7 too...
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • lorddemonragelorddemonrage Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    What worries me is that there have been increasingly more drastic changes lately. And that makes it look like the game is not doing well...

    well, one bad decision after another will do that. Not listening to the player base will do that. Making sweeping drastic changes, obviously will do that.

    I will say this, I've played several games over the years. And each has their own "meta-game" or "economic climate", whatever you call it. Messing with that, as smarter companies have, you can only pull it off with gradual changes, rapid changes like this, will cause a sticker shock effect. "Whoaaaa they did what now! Bye!!"

    Me and my wife play this game, we run a small guild. We have invested several dollars into this game. We've bought mounts, keys, dyes, etc. We've farmed countless hours to gear alts, and guildies. We're not sticking around if this goes through as is.

    And i said "smarter companies" earlier because really, what kind of company would let a lead dev post a half done list of ideas that will drastically alter the core economy of game. So many questions unanswered, so many details left out, so little fore-thought as to the effects of posting this.

    You Scott sir, posted one magnificent, cosco-econo-sized troll post. And sadly its gonna keep trolling more people.
  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    Leadership should have never existed. It was so broken way to get huge amounts of AD without playing the game that ruined economy for people who refused to mindlessly "relog, press 5 buttons, relog, press 5 buttons, relog, press 5 buttons"x50 every day. I am impressed they dared to finally kill it, knowing how huge rage will it cause. Good job, Cryptic. And for people saying that:"Bots have so great amount of AD they will rule the market now" - following your logic Astral Resonator exploit should have never been fixed. Any damage will be cured, sooner or later. Leadership was a disease of this game for so long it will surely take a lot to recover - but it finally will.
  • xhenmaelstromxhenmaelstrom Member Posts: 1 Arc User

    Finally AD gets removed from Leadership, FINALLY.
    Really happy about this. Of course more has to be done, Foundry and Heroic Encounters should give AD too, but at least the alt armies can go F emselves now and the playing field is a bit more leveled.

    Really us old school players that have waded through thick and thin just toss this game...... 24k ad refine a day in max... my army was made over the last year and a half. So from spending money and time i get crapped on. Leadership is my time off play. Sorry if i have a life cryptic.. so im not allowed a few days off.
    So I about 11 hours to make this 19k ad ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are you serious... (bleep)


  • rodrant64rodrant64 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    If you're going to make us have to do more of the content to get AD, then give us our content back! Hurry up and return all the dungeons to the game! But I guess that doesn't fit into the agenda of HAMSTER over the player base.
    Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance!
    CW: Rodrant Turnbul
    TR: Rodran
    DC: Rodrat
    GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
    Other GWF: Shieldrant
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    OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User

    aratech said:

    morenthar said:

    Oh, did I forget the Strongholds impact?

    Yeah, good luck with donating AD for improvements.

    Small guilds=even more screwed.
    Large guilds with botters and leftover riches from former exploits=even more powerful.

    reiwulf said:

    I must be in the minority but I like the changes. there has been a topic about this on the forums for quite some while.
    I don't think the main source of AD in NW should be an activity that doesn't require to actively play like leadership or invoking.
    I understand that many people will be mad, and they have all the right to be, after all many have spent lots of real money into character slots and lots of time to level leadership to have their own leadership army, but I believe it is necesary to fix the economy.
    prices in the market will go down after a while, but the prices for GMOPs and anithing sold by cryptic have to go down too or no one will be able to get enough AD for their own progression.


    I LOVE the changes!!! :D Its even very similar from the sugestions i gave in my now closed tread. :)

    So happy!

    AND ALL THOSE EXPLOITER TEARS FEEL DELICIOUS!
    You mean the exploiters that have built up the AD equivalent of Fort Knox from using said exploits and can happily ride this change out from now until judgment day? Whilst us regular players get spat upon when we entertained the vain hope that we might actually get enough AD to gear up our main and alts?
    Yes those ones, with luck they will ragequit. anyway they are BiS and always will be, but at least for now, people will have to play for their progression.

    That change should have ocurred months before module 6, but better late than never. :D
    Why would they rage quit? Did you not read my post? Most of these exploiters bot-farmers *have already made their mint* (even assuming they don't fine new ways to exploit, given that people have in this very thread demonstrated how easily a bot can just wade into some PVP matches and continue to farm). They have enough in game wealth that this won't affect them. All it does is take a great big HAMSTER on those of us who are legit players and dare to have a life/job/etc. away from this game.

  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,630 Arc User
    If you really wanted to get rid of the bots, here's what you do - Just before some future Maintenance announce that during the next scheduled maintenance - less than a week away, All accounts with over 12 character slots will have them reduced to 12 and those with 12 or less will not be affected. Chaos will reign for 2-3 days while players decide how to reduce their 50 toons to 12. The AH will do a 'Land Office' business with all the stuff auctioned to avoid losing it. Players with 13+ toon accounts will Yell and Scream and Holler about the alleged 'unfairness' of this move. And actually it is Fair. If it's "Fair" for everyone to buy up to 50 slots, then it is also "Fair" and less expensive for everyone to buy up to 12 slots.

    No, you won't be reimbursed for you extra slots in this scenario either.

    Now, are you serious about getting rid of Bots, or are you just giving us 'lip service'?
    kreatyve said:

    Are we going to be reimbursed for our character slots?

    I doubt that. Most people already had farmed enough AD from leadership to have their character slots pay for themselves several times over.
  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User

    whaaaaa, lolol yall are now actually forced to play the game =) yes great changes thank you

    after they've removed most of what made this game worth playing...
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    cal501 said:

    So much for this game.



    Last person still playing the game, don't forget to turn the lights off when you leave.

    Like the 2.1 MILION play simultaniously on Xbox? :) Now the newcomers from the Xbox sucess history will find a better economy!

    There will be ALWAYS have chance to get MONEYS for those that play the game, i just got a Horn to Sell! :D So i will sell it now with inflactioned market!!! :D
    Why would they switch to PC from Xbox? Xbox never had their economy destroyed like PC so it's not as big an issue for them. All this does is show them that they should stay away from PC.

    If you really wanted to get rid of the bots, here's what you do - Just before some future Maintenance announce that during the next scheduled maintenance - less than a week away, All accounts with over 12 character slots will have them reduced to 12 and those with 12 or less will not be affected. Chaos will reign for 2-3 days while players decide how to reduce their 50 toons to 12. The AH will do a 'Land Office' business with all the stuff auctioned to avoid losing it. Players with 13+ toon accounts will Yell and Scream and Holler about the alleged 'unfairness' of this move. And actually it is Fair. If it's "Fair" for everyone to buy up to 50 slots, then it is also "Fair" and less expensive for everyone to buy up to 12 slots.

    No, you won't be reimbursed for you extra slots in this scenario either.

    Now, are you serious about getting rid of Bots, or are you just giving us 'lip service'?

    kreatyve said:

    Are we going to be reimbursed for our character slots?

    I doubt that. Most people already had farmed enough AD from leadership to have their character slots pay for themselves several times over.
    Why do people keep acting as if it's a good idea for PWE to just delete items purchased with zen?

    They can get rid of leadership and make said alts worthless but actually deleting those slots would require some sort of compensation.

    cal501 said:

    So much for this game.



    Last person still playing the game, don't forget to turn the lights off when you leave.

    Like the 2.1 MILION play simultaniously on Xbox? :) Now the newcomers from the Xbox sucess history will find a better economy!

    There will be ALWAYS have chance to get MONEYS for those that play the game, i just got a Horn to Sell! :D So i will sell it now with inflactioned market!!! :D


    Frankly I made most of my AD this week selling drops. But that took hours upon hours of farming boring ****. I have 16 leadership alts and they contributed something like 300k out of the 2 million AD I made this week. If I can do that then bots can do better.

    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    goatshark said:

    We’re going to be making a number of changes, all of which should increase the amount of AD most players earn in a given day. There's a lot here, so without further ado...

    VIP
    VIP is changing slightly. Previously, you received +15% bonus AD at VIP Rank 1 for Daily Quests. At VIP Rank 2, you received +15% bonus AD on Hourly Events. Now, at Rank 1, you will get 15% bonus on all runs of Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP. For PvP in particular, this is a new source of Astral Diamonds.

    Scott Shicoff
    Lead Designer

    So even presuming we would be able to get 24k rough AD on our main character to play this game, to afford 1 month of VIP would be 500k AD. Thus, this one character would need to max out their AD refinement for a total of 23 days to afford the program.

    That leaves approximately 7 days of refining the 24k AD limit to net you about 170k AD remaining for that month.

    Assuming one doesn't have Rank 7 and above VIP, you can afford a grand total of 1 GMOP in excess while keeping the VIP going.

    1 GMOP per month. Unless you pay of course. But I suppose that might be the intention here.
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  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    goatshark said:

    We’re going to be making a number of changes, all of which should increase the amount of AD most players earn in a given day. There's a lot here, so without further ado...

    VIP
    VIP is changing slightly. Previously, you received +15% bonus AD at VIP Rank 1 for Daily Quests. At VIP Rank 2, you received +15% bonus AD on Hourly Events. Now, at Rank 1, you will get 15% bonus on all runs of Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP. For PvP in particular, this is a new source of Astral Diamonds.

    Scott Shicoff
    Lead Designer

    So even presuming we would be able to get 24k rough AD on our main character to play this game, to afford 1 month of VIP would be 500k AD. Thus, this one character would need to max out their AD refinement for a total of 23 days to afford the program.

    That leaves approximately 7 days of refining the 24k AD limit to net you about 170k AD remaining for that month.

    Assuming one doesn't have Rank 7 and above VIP, you can afford a grand total of 1 GMOP in excess to keep the VIP going.

    1 GMOP per month. Unless you pay of course. But I suppose that might be the intention here?
    after a year it'll be 2 gmops when you get high enough ranked to get the bazaar discount....


  • dagamies666dagamies666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5 Arc User
    I think this is important change. But I think this is poorly done. For many, many players who have invested on Leadership, this hurts a lot. Please consider following approach:
    1. Slash Leadership AD gain by 50%
    2. Change AD gain from Leadership to be more dynamic and rewarding for players who play the game:
    3. Define certain set of game actions (like opening a boon, this would be important for leveling/new level 70 players, completing Dungeon or winning PVP) to reward 10 % bonus on this leadership AD gain. These gains should be VERY hard to bot. Introduce some extra randomness on all activities included in this bonus so that it will require extreme investments on botters to overcome
    4. Define a gap on Bonus (max ~50-120%)
    5. Each day that passes decrease AD from leadership by -5% on account basis-> BOT PROBLEM SOLVED IN 20 DAYS
    I think this kind of "rewards" based anti bot measure would be significantly better. If I do not play, I should not be able to gain AD from my 9 toons. If I play, I would be still rewarded on long tedious hours I took to level my Leadership
  • l3thin4thl3thin4th Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    The lesson from taking leadership from the Gateway is that the Bot went in game (per admission of the staff) and legit players had the first trouble in getting AD because no everyone can login via client every day, but you could do profs with your phone etc.. One might call this playing the game. Seems it was not the case.

    Now you take AD away from leadership.
    Fine. I actually expect price to drop enough to make things affordable to the new "regime". We just need to understand what this new equilibrium will be.
    Might even be better..
    I personally would have wiped the AH. so everything can start from scratch..
    But what we will see (in my opinion) is a re-alignment of prices.
    If today a stack or 99 peridot is 100-120 k AD, in one month will be 20-25 kAD (maybe a little more, I guessed a factor 5 reduction).
    I hope you will re-align the prices of GMoP and all WB items as well, because we (players which play an average of one hour/day) will to be able to afford them anymore.


    What really I don't understand is how this will fight botters. I mean, everyone can setup a "circuit" for exp away. Do you think botters cannot do the same with 3 men dungeons? or skirmishes?
    What I am afraid of is: in 3 months, are we going to read a new post about how, to fight bots, AD will be taken out from rewards so we can win the war against botters?
    Botters will ALWAYS be a part of the game. So far there is a keyboard, that is how it will be.
    Maybe you will have better luck on platforms like the xBox.

    The only unknown in my prediction is: I have no idea how much AD will actually the botter produce. And It is hard to foresee how this doped production of AD will affect the zen market.

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