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why perma=stealth needs to go and why it never will
lemonchill
Member Posts: 523 Arc User
hi all
would like to share my perspective as a tr about perma=stealth.
i have been playing tr from beta and still do, i love that class. i also played perma=stealth in the past and i wont lie it was fun even funny at times but my perspective changed after playing other classes as gwf gf and dc. after i started playing these classes i understood the huge disadvantage any class face a perma=stealth tr (except for trapper hrs with their damn perma stun root abilities but that is a subject for another post) and as a result i have a huge respect to any class out there that manage to duel 1v1 with perma stealth tr even if they die in the end.
right now i play a non stealth based tr. i will bull charge you, i will face you and i will do it against any class out there gwf gf op dc cw perma=stealth what ever.
and i have to admit i enjoy this build much more then perma-stealth its more challenging and intense in my opinion.
nw devs made a huge mistake by allowing trs use at-wills and encounters and still stay in stealth even with stealth changes perma or semi perma stealth still thrives.
in d&d basics stealth was always used for two reasons:
1 defensive - go stealth and run past enemies or run away from enemies when things go bad.
2 offensive - hit your enemy from stealth with huge dmg burst. the moment you hit your enemy you should not be in stealth !
now for the downside why perma stealth will never go away?
1 no time for developers to make the adjustments and changes needed because of new content pressure by cryptic management.
2 these changes will lead to termination of an entire path - the saboteur! scoundrels and executioners can do well with non stealth builds sadly saboteurs need stealth for their dps. so terminating an entire path that's just not gonna happen.
hopefully more and more trs out there will come to the conclusion its much more fun and challenging to play a non stealth based tr even against top pvp guilds and players.
adding a video showing there is stil hope out there for non stealth based trs:
https://youtu.be/QcpPoyJ_wZw
would like to share my perspective as a tr about perma=stealth.
i have been playing tr from beta and still do, i love that class. i also played perma=stealth in the past and i wont lie it was fun even funny at times but my perspective changed after playing other classes as gwf gf and dc. after i started playing these classes i understood the huge disadvantage any class face a perma=stealth tr (except for trapper hrs with their damn perma stun root abilities but that is a subject for another post) and as a result i have a huge respect to any class out there that manage to duel 1v1 with perma stealth tr even if they die in the end.
right now i play a non stealth based tr. i will bull charge you, i will face you and i will do it against any class out there gwf gf op dc cw perma=stealth what ever.
and i have to admit i enjoy this build much more then perma-stealth its more challenging and intense in my opinion.
nw devs made a huge mistake by allowing trs use at-wills and encounters and still stay in stealth even with stealth changes perma or semi perma stealth still thrives.
in d&d basics stealth was always used for two reasons:
1 defensive - go stealth and run past enemies or run away from enemies when things go bad.
2 offensive - hit your enemy from stealth with huge dmg burst. the moment you hit your enemy you should not be in stealth !
now for the downside why perma stealth will never go away?
1 no time for developers to make the adjustments and changes needed because of new content pressure by cryptic management.
2 these changes will lead to termination of an entire path - the saboteur! scoundrels and executioners can do well with non stealth builds sadly saboteurs need stealth for their dps. so terminating an entire path that's just not gonna happen.
hopefully more and more trs out there will come to the conclusion its much more fun and challenging to play a non stealth based tr even against top pvp guilds and players.
adding a video showing there is stil hope out there for non stealth based trs:
https://youtu.be/QcpPoyJ_wZw
0
Comments
2. Fix SE
Problem solved.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
BUT they need to Rework "Piercing-dmg".
there's absolutely no reason to give TR's that high amount of Advantage!!
and still the Possibility to 1-Shot enemy Players- with only one use of Daily-
Shadowy Opportunity has been nerfed to the point of non-essential.
I support this post because there is a need for it... even though I grimace when I see one.
CoS + Shadow Opportunity + Lostmauth set + Oppresive Darkness
Its a joke or what? Change auto-crit to doubling CURRENT crit chance and do something with autoproc CA. Shocking Execution needs respect tenacity and mechanism with dimishing DR&deflect chance dependend n health target. Ah, forgot about cooldown feat. This feat should have x% recharge speed or internal cooldown because IF you know how do certain rotation then TR low all encounters by 4s.
@lemonchill
You need know how perma-stealth works to nerf them. I will give you some advices:
Shady Preparations(example rotation):
-> CoS then very low stealth meter use SS and fast TAB(daze+(-2s less cooldowns))
-> Spam again CoS then you have again stealth meter then just use smoke bomb(OwtS procc and -2s less cooldowns)
->(for MI TR with Invisible Infiltrator) Spam again CoS then your stealth is very low then use daily and just click TAB to go stealth(congratulations you get again -2s less cooldowns)
Now solutions for fix this:
-> OwtS should proc even with SS
-> give Shady Preparations internal cooldown or rework for 10% more recharge speed for x time.
But its still not help against with multiple sources from at-wills, yeah?
So, stealth now should doubling crit chance to reduce up-time Losthmauth Set but you still have Shadow Opportunity and Oppresive Darkness.
And maybe firstly fix this:
With this things just play isometric camera to fight with TRs.
this post is about perma-stealth abilities and not about so called buggy tr abilities lets face it every class out there has buggy feats, powers, encounters etc. so pls focus on the perma-stealth subject only thank you.
permastealth = BnS/SS/dodge roll
It never leaves stealth and has no use of ITC, and able to slot one damage encounter power. Since mod4, any ITC hybrid has been commonly mistaken for perma; SS/ITC/PotB and in its current incarnation SS/ITC/(OwtS). Realize that Cloud of Steel burns through stealth fast, so there is a bigger gap but which is only easily blanketed by 4/4 ITC, 4/4 SmokeBomb.
No offense. I'm just being strict on the ins and outs because leading people on a nerf wagon, on the premise of "stealth," again, had never fixed the problem once. Your real problem is piercing is spammable and should double back to the high way and turn left there.
Basically the same thing some TR players, including myself, have been pointing out for a long time. Way back, before mod5 days, permastealth builds already existed. In that incarnation, permas needed to really invest for it.
They needed to invest in very high INT stats, as well as fill up their power trays with the classic ITC/BnS/SS setup, which was a very low damage set-up. Permas could troll nodes forver, but at least it couldn't kill anything. There actually came a point when the natural regen rate of certain classes -- ie. the mod2 "demigod" GWFs -- would overcome the damage output of the perma TR, that it was virtually impossible to kill. Also in those days, gaining AP took time. It wasn't the bullsheet Daily spam it is nowadays, and there was no such thing as SigDiv which gave you free access to 100% AP from the beginning of the game.
As a result, permastealth was a minority build, a build for people who took up the node-troller role seriously. Majority of the big-name TR players were all semi-permas, using ITC-stealth rotations with their main mode of attack being jump-DF attacks.
...
Nowadays? You don't need to sacrifice anything. You don't need to build for anything. Just go the lazy way of the Sabo with all your stats crammed into DEX/STR, and with stuff like SO and LostM set bonus it still hits harder than most of other possible TR paths, from a range, and invisible to detect. Meet someone with high defense? No problem. Less than a minute and you'll have free 100% AP, stocked full and ready to spam SE.
There's no skill with Sabos. The great glory days of super-TR players are long gone. Most of them don't play this game any more. Whatever makes up any of those "competitive" TRs, have nothing to do with intuitive thinking, reflexes, or a skill. Just a dumbed-down easy-mode version of the old-school permastealth, where you take away the necessary investments, and just allow a plain one-button CoS spam to hit as hard as some encounters other classes have. [/quote]
Correct. No excuses there.
I guarantee, that the devs fix SE and about half of the Sabo population will suddenly drop a landslide in their ranks. Fix stuff like SO and LostM set bonuses, and the rest half will tumble down from the slopes and reveal just how much they are in terms of real skill.
Perma should be a viable option, I agree. But just as with any build, anything that has great use in one area, MUST come with equal amount of weakness in others. You want to be the best in survivability and defense? Sure. Why not. Just don't expect to be able to kill someone by flinging puny daggers from a safe distance in invisibility. If you want to kill something, you close the distance and use big attacks, make yourself open to an equal counter-attack.
That's the way it should be. Just as much as DCs and Palys have no realistic hope of killing someone in a 1v1, face-to-face situation, so should it be the same for Sabos as well. If you want to kill something, go Scoundrel or Executioner and take risks with close-range big-attack combos. If you don't to risk that, then fine, your choice. You're giving up the ability to kill something by doing so.
No risks, no rewards.
SE needs to be nerfed. SO needs to removed. LostM set bonus needs to be nerfed.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TR has so much options to evade damage or to CC your opponent
Saying the class is doomed being seen by a hunter for two seconds just tells me a lot about your definition of a fair contest...
When i see a hunter with my warlock its pure offence
WB, HG, brood of hadar, just CC him as much as I can and throw dots at him
he does his silly broken Root-Daze-Rotation but its no easy going and the longer it lasts the more he is toast
Wow... an obscure KoA reference... I love it.
Honestly... the only TR build that should LOGICALLY have SE... is the Executioner tree. It should not be a MI only power. The trees and paths were mixed up from the start.
kingdom of amalur? damn, i was sure i was the only one that played this game. lol . fantastic game too bad they cancelled the mmo plans for it.
It was actually ex-Boston Red Sox pitcher Kurt Schilling's baby. He started the company and was spending a lot of money on developing it. Then he threw in the towel.
Having died plenty of times I can tell you it's not permanent. Use more AoE. TR's bound to trip and fall. It's harder to Dodge. Seee, there it is - DODGE. Being unable to hit a TR as often as you like seems to be the complaint, and Stealth gets blamed for it as the sole cause.
(Use "Summon Banana Peel IV", or "Slimey Floor" Wild Magic spells. Something! )
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Forget it i found it
First Strike is great for solo and PvP... but not for PvE. The mobs have too much HP for that to be worth using. AP and OD will deliver more damage than one First Strike.