drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
By the way that some of the people complaining about SE, who aren't playing a TR, it seems that they are killed with it every time they see a TR.
Here is the suggested scenario... see a TR, then he disappears... here the tick-tick-tick and BAM! hit with a SE... everyone around the TR dies.
Yes SE sucks... and the execution move SHOULD have been put with the Executioner Tree. It is a One-Shot mechanic power... on purpose. Personally when I was a Sab, I hated using it... because it would miss more than hit. If SoD worked, with FS then it would one-hit everyone. The issue is... that SE can't kill everyone.
It is a stupid power TBH... and players who do rely on it need that crutch because they are not as skilled as other TRs. Honestly, I would be more afraid of the TR approaching me out in the open... because that player is confident in his skill and he does not need to hide.
Eventually more people will be afraid of the TR that you can see than the TR you can't.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Lmao, its not that TRs are afraid to play, its just that the entire class revolves around stealth, to much boost landing strikes from it. So would be dumb as hell not to take advantage of it.
Dunno. With just a handful of exceptions, most Sabos I see are dumb and generally clueless about what TRs are really capable of, since they've never left their easy-mode comfort zone of throwing projectiles from a distance in total invisibility. Hence, when a situation occurs that might go in over their heads, they simply panic and high-tail straight out of the node to the nearest heal pot with the ITC-roll-roll-roll-roll.
Taking the path of least resistance is a smart move, yes. But at the same time, it leaves people clueless, untrained, and damned near stupid and dumbfounded when a situation that requires you to make full use of the TR's capabilities ever happens.
People assume all they'd need to learn is how to pull the trigger and that'd be it, until the moment comes when someone smarter and better than they force them into a hand-to-hand. Then what do they do? Get killed on the spot. That's what most Sabos are.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Uh oh... kweassa let the cat out of the bag. When a TR realizes that there is more to the class... look out. I am seeing this more and more lately.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I will run away from a mob of opposing players. I will challenge to a point with 1v2 and 1v3, but when I see the 'writing on the wall' I run to another node. I will even solo cap 2 and 4 with the NPCs out, with zero problems. If I run there is a reason, more than not wanting to die. Which, often enough, ends up happening anyway because I cannot always use stealth to get away.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I don't even have a problem with Perma, if cryptic decided to give TR endless stealth+ dodge OK,
BUT they need to Rework "Piercing-dmg".
there's absolutely no reason to give TR's that high amount of Advantage!!
and still the Possibility to 1-Shot enemy Players- with only one use of Daily-
A nerf to that ridiculous amount of stealth/re-stealths is completely legit and called for and would at the same time nerf SO and dps in general
ITC is the only reason TRs are as easy to play as they are. Literally the only reason.
I, as an Intimidation GWF, would melt a TR if they didn't HAMSTER have ITC up every time they get out of stealth. Whenever I catch them without it (Which is rarely) I can break their kneecaps and beat them over the head while they try to get away. But because of ITC, I can't CC them or anything.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
ITC is the only reason TRs are as easy to play as they are. Literally the only reason.
I, as an Intimidation GWF, would melt a TR if they didn't HAMSTER have ITC up every time they get out of stealth. Whenever I catch them without it (Which is rarely) I can break their kneecaps and beat them over the head while they try to get away. But because of ITC, I can't CC them or anything.
Lmao, its not that TRs are afraid to play, its just that the entire class revolves around stealth, to much boost landing strikes from it. So would be dumb as hell not to take advantage of it.
Dunno. With just a handful of exceptions, most Sabos I see are dumb and generally clueless about what TRs are really capable of, since they've never left their easy-mode comfort zone of throwing projectiles from a distance in total invisibility. Hence, when a situation occurs that might go in over their heads, they simply panic and high-tail straight out of the node to the nearest heal pot with the ITC-roll-roll-roll-roll.
Taking the path of least resistance is a smart move, yes. But at the same time, it leaves people clueless, untrained, and damned near stupid and dumbfounded when a situation that requires you to make full use of the TR's capabilities ever happens.
People assume all they'd need to learn is how to pull the trigger and that'd be it, until the moment comes when someone smarter and better than they force them into a hand-to-hand. Then what do they do? Get killed on the spot. That's what most Sabos are.
What do you wana say by "Trs are capable off" ? perma daze/slow? ton of people run this build, whisperknife? that thing cant do anything.
Its not that I can't CC them that is the only issue, the issue is three fold:
1. It lasts long enough for them to utterly destroy you while taking no damage by using telegraphed abilities that you could normally interrupt.
2. There is no counterplay, the only thing you can do is dash around/dodge. If you have no iFrames you are HAMSTER.
3. They can do full damage while taking no damage
If any one of those things were not true, I wouldn't have a problem with it. For example, if Impossible to Catch nerfed your outgoing damage substantially, it would make perfect sense.
As it is right now, the skill is literally a god mode.
ITC is the only reason TRs are as easy to play as they are. Literally the only reason.
I, as an Intimidation GWF, would melt a TR if they didn't HAMSTER have ITC up every time they get out of stealth. Whenever I catch them without it (Which is rarely) I can break their kneecaps and beat them over the head while they try to get away. But because of ITC, I can't CC them or anything.
He's not entirely wrong. This is the most honest reasoning behind a nerf call I have seen yet. And I have seen hundreds. Doesn't need to technically justify argue a point. Unlike most of you, he's capable of saying it out loud.
What do you wana say by "Trs are capable off" ? perma daze/slow? ton of people run this build, whisperknife? that thing cant do anything.
Yep. Thanks for proving the point on 'clueless.'
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
LMAO... a perma telling a Wk what he is capable of? Sorry fatguns... I have not seen very many skilled perma TRs. Just because a players knows the rotations and can kill other players, does not mean they are skilled. When a person lives in a rut, they think it is perfect. That is until something comes to mess with that rut... then they get aggressive.
The truth is this. perma-stealth in PvP is going the way of the dodo.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
1. Impossible to Catch gets a charge system, each charge only lasts 2 seconds. This way, cooldown reduction has no effect on the skill.
2. Impossible to Catch lowers outgoing damage while its active.
3. Impossible to Catch doesn't make you immune to everything when you use it from stealth.
Either one of those would be fine with me. I don't even care about 100% Deflection chance. At least with 100% deflection chance you can still be interrupted/chain stunned. Being literally invulnerable is the only reason its as frustrating as it is.
Yeah, Shocking Execution is horrifying as a GWF. Whenever I hear the sound I know there's nothing I can do. But I can live with that, you have to spec a certain way to do it.
Well, hard to kill not equal broken. SE is in different thread.
I just wondering why Tr should be beaten by gwf.
And not working in an opposite way.
An example will be gwf can easily kill a trapper hr, but hard for Tr.
Not to mention that Tr can be hit by gwf while in stealth. With any encounter or at will.
I m not defending any broken stuff, just not the "O I can't kill him, it must be broken"
Let's face it. ITC was broken from day1. It's hard to compare different games on a 1:1 scale, but just as an example a lot of the more successful MMOGs feature CC-breakers as very special and strategic power on a much longer cooldown. WoW, for example, puts it on 2-min cooldown for a singular CC-break without further protection. SWTOR has it the same way. These game have different conditions and environments and therefore the cooldown cannot be directly compared, but even so, a power that grants an immediate CC-break as well as 6 second further immunity from it.... on a base 18 second recharge time??? ...which easily comes down to less than 15 with most builds?????
This is just wrong. Plain wrong.
It allows an almost absolute mode of defense where any time you are visible you are in ITC, and any time your ITC is on cooldown you are invisible. Come on, man, let's not lie here. Every TR player who is at least on some amount of veteran level knows that unless you've got like 3~4 enemies non-stop searching for you and spraying AoEs everywhere around, on equal 1:1 conditions nothing breaks the TR defense if its a Sabo.
I've pointed this out since way back in mod2 that this "semi-perma" method of cycling stealth-ITC-stealth-SS may look like its less cheesy than a pure 100% perma, but in reality it's quite the same thing when the TR never exposes any sort of vulnerability in its combat run. Frankly speaking when it's a top-level Sabo on the node, the only way we flush him out is to throw around so much damage that teeney amounts of damage that pass through ITC accumulates so much as to have him on the run. That's usually how it happens.
So, IMO, ITC basically needs one of the three methods of balancing:
1. If TRs want ITC to perform exactly as it is -- an immediate CC break followed by 6 seconds of immunity and 100% deflection, then ITC needs a helluva longer recharge time, at the least, 20 seconds true-time (meaning around 24~25s default, before any recharge reduction applies).
2. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast (13~15s with high recharge builds, default 18 seconds), then something's gotta go: either total CC immunity goes away, or the 100% guaranteed deflection goes away. Personally,
3. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast, but does not want either the CC-related protection or deflection related protection going away, then there needs to be an equal amount of nerf to both factors.
In terms of how the above 3 conditions are interpreted into real powers, it would be something like this:
■ Option 1: Retain everything, increase recharge
- ITC default recharge time is now 30 seconds
■ Option 2: Retain either the CC protection, or the deflection
Option2, version A
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will break you free of any CC(except prones) and retain 3/4/5/6s of CC immunity (same as before)
- ITC now no longer adds any deflection
Option2, version B
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now guarantee that you deflect any incoming attack for the next 3/4/5/6s
- ITC now no longer breaks you free from any CCs, or protects you from it
■ Option 3: Retain everything, but at a reduced performance
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now break you free from a CC, but does not grant you further immunity
- ITC will now add +20/25/30/35% deflection to your current deflection chance for 3/4/5/6s
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Well, hard to kill not equal broken. SE is in different thread.
I just wondering why Tr should be beaten by gwf.
And not working in an opposite way.
An example will be gwf can easily kill a trapper hr, but hard for Tr.
Not to mention that Tr can be hit by gwf while in stealth. With any encounter or at will.
I m not defending any broken stuff, just not the "O I can't kill him, it must be broken"
Let's face it. ITC was broken from day1. It's hard to compare different games on a 1:1 scale, but just as an example a lot of the more successful MMOGs feature CC-breakers as very special and strategic power on a much longer cooldown. WoW, for example, puts it on 2-min cooldown for a singular CC-break without further protection. SWTOR has it the same way. These game have different conditions and environments and therefore the cooldown cannot be directly compared, but even so, a power that grants an immediate CC-break as well as 6 second further immunity from it.... on a base 18 second recharge time??? ...which easily comes down to less than 15 with most builds?????
This is just wrong. Plain wrong.
It allows an almost absolute mode of defense where any time you are visible you are in ITC, and any time your ITC is on cooldown you are invisible. Come on, man, let's not lie here. Every TR player who is at least on some amount of veteran level knows that unless you've got like 3~4 enemies non-stop searching for you and spraying AoEs everywhere around, on equal 1:1 conditions nothing breaks the TR defense if its a Sabo.
I've pointed this out since way back in mod2 that this "semi-perma" method of cycling stealth-ITC-stealth-SS may look like its less cheesy than a pure 100% perma, but in reality it's quite the same thing when the TR never exposes any sort of vulnerability in its combat run. Frankly speaking when it's a top-level Sabo on the node, the only way we flush him out is to throw around so much damage that teeney amounts of damage that pass through ITC accumulates so much as to have him on the run. That's usually how it happens.
So, IMO, ITC basically needs one of the three methods of balancing:
1. If TRs want ITC to perform exactly as it is -- an immediate CC break followed by 6 seconds of immunity and 100% deflection, then ITC needs a helluva longer recharge time, at the least, 20 seconds true-time (meaning around 24~25s default, before any recharge reduction applies).
2. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast (13~15s with high recharge builds, default 18 seconds), then something's gotta go: either total CC immunity goes away, or the 100% guaranteed deflection goes away. Personally,
3. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast, but does not want either the CC-related protection or deflection related protection going away, then there needs to be an equal amount of nerf to both factors.
In terms of how the above 3 conditions are interpreted into real powers, it would be something like this:
■ Option 1: Retain everything, increase recharge
- ITC default recharge time is now 30 seconds
■ Option 2: Retain either the CC protection, or the deflection
Option2, version A
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will break you free of any CC(except prones) and retain 3/4/5/6s of CC immunity (same as before)
- ITC now no longer adds any deflection
Option2, version B
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now guarantee that you deflect any incoming attack for the next 3/4/5/6s
- ITC now no longer breaks you free from any CCs, or protects you from it
■ Option 3: Retain everything, but at a reduced performance
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now break you free from a CC, but does not grant you further immunity
- ITC will now add +20/25/30/35% deflection to your current deflection chance for 3/4/5/6s
how the hell this post became from perma stealth subject to itc subject????
you want to make a post about itc? make a new one. besides, some of the stuff written here about itc are wrong. itc lasts 6 sec? itc gives you 100% deflect?? really?
stay true to the post subject pls.
Then lower hidden dagger as well.
I have no problem with ITC change as long as they also lower hidden dagger buff.
Give HAMSTER like this to me who need ITC
Make a separate thread. Nobody said the GWFs were fine.
Like I've mentioned elsewhere the GWF is a disaster of a class with so many problems which is inefficient and hopeless in combat. The devs did nothing to fix it, and just to appease the GWF players simply smothered it with f**kton of damage buffs applied in wrong amounts and in the wrong way, so before you get to over 3.8k IL the class is a joke, but once it reaches over that point it walks around with a tactical nuke that's tied up to it's weapon.
The devs need to "normalize" it's combat efficiency so that the class has a lot of more attacks and setups with good utility involved that can be used easily and efficiently, and then remove the ridiculous amounts of damage buffs.
I've said this a million times, fought at the GWF forums over it, discussed it with a lot of GWF players as well.
I'd gladly bash the poor design of the GWF in a GWF related thread. But this one's about how TRs have problems with permastealth and other factors which make the majority Sabos invincible. I'm not about to start bashing GWFs here.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
ITC is totally balanced... it's just like getting the star in any Mario game. Nigh invulnerable and full damage for the duration. It's just missing the music. LOL
Edit: (Please... someone make a MI/Sab video with the Mario music every time ITC is popped.) ROFL
ITC is literally the only problem. I don't care about perma invis, I don't care about oneshots with shocking execution, I don't care about being chipped down by daggers.
I can DEAL with those things. I can take Mighty Leap and time it so that as soon as I hear the wind up sound from Shocking Execution, I leap. I can find someone whose perma invis by thinking about what I would do if I was a rogue and in stealth. I can deal with someone whose throwing daggers all over the place and dodging around by taking Punishing Charge/Threatening Rush/Bravery/Savage Advance/Ferocious Reaction etc. I can't deal with someone whose always invulnerable whenever they come out stealth.
Empowered ITC lasts 6 seconds at rank 4 and gives near immunity to damage, and total immunity to CC. It is broken in its current state.
Then lower hidden dagger as well.
I have no problem with ITC change as long as they also lower hidden dagger buff.
Give HAMSTER like this to me who need ITC
A TR(?) complains about hidden dagger buff, when you have piercing dmg and 100% critchance of avoidable damage against that class? You are either horrible at your class or just plain stupid.
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Then lower hidden dagger as well.
I have no problem with ITC change as long as they also lower hidden dagger buff.
Give HAMSTER like this to me who need ITC
A TR(?) complains about hidden dagger buff, when you have piercing dmg and 100% critchance of avoidable damage against that class? You are either horrible at your class or just plain stupid.
Ouch!
10 char
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Comments
Here is the suggested scenario... see a TR, then he disappears... here the tick-tick-tick and BAM! hit with a SE... everyone around the TR dies.
Yes SE sucks... and the execution move SHOULD have been put with the Executioner Tree. It is a One-Shot mechanic power... on purpose. Personally when I was a Sab, I hated using it... because it would miss more than hit. If SoD worked, with FS then it would one-hit everyone. The issue is... that SE can't kill everyone.
It is a stupid power TBH... and players who do rely on it need that crutch because they are not as skilled as other TRs. Honestly, I would be more afraid of the TR approaching me out in the open... because that player is confident in his skill and he does not need to hide.
Eventually more people will be afraid of the TR that you can see than the TR you can't.
Dunno. With just a handful of exceptions, most Sabos I see are dumb and generally clueless about what TRs are really capable of, since they've never left their easy-mode comfort zone of throwing projectiles from a distance in total invisibility. Hence, when a situation occurs that might go in over their heads, they simply panic and high-tail straight out of the node to the nearest heal pot with the ITC-roll-roll-roll-roll.
Taking the path of least resistance is a smart move, yes. But at the same time, it leaves people clueless, untrained, and damned near stupid and dumbfounded when a situation that requires you to make full use of the TR's capabilities ever happens.
People assume all they'd need to learn is how to pull the trigger and that'd be it, until the moment comes when someone smarter and better than they force them into a hand-to-hand. Then what do they do? Get killed on the spot. That's what most Sabos are.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
A nerf to that ridiculous amount of stealth/re-stealths is completely legit and called for and would at the same time nerf SO and dps in general
I, as an Intimidation GWF, would melt a TR if they didn't HAMSTER have ITC up every time they get out of stealth. Whenever I catch them without it (Which is rarely) I can break their kneecaps and beat them over the head while they try to get away. But because of ITC, I can't CC them or anything.
I play a GF. What is ITC?
What do you wana say by "Trs are capable off" ? perma daze/slow? ton of people run this build, whisperknife? that thing cant do anything.
1. It lasts long enough for them to utterly destroy you while taking no damage by using telegraphed abilities that you could normally interrupt.
2. There is no counterplay, the only thing you can do is dash around/dodge. If you have no iFrames you are HAMSTER.
3. They can do full damage while taking no damage
If any one of those things were not true, I wouldn't have a problem with it. For example, if Impossible to Catch nerfed your outgoing damage substantially, it would make perfect sense.
As it is right now, the skill is literally a god mode.
He's not entirely wrong. This is the most honest reasoning behind a nerf call I have seen yet. And I have seen hundreds. Doesn't need to technically justify argue a point. Unlike most of you, he's capable of saying it out loud.
Yep. Thanks for proving the point on 'clueless.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The truth is this. perma-stealth in PvP is going the way of the dodo.
1. Impossible to Catch gets a charge system, each charge only lasts 2 seconds. This way, cooldown reduction has no effect on the skill.
2. Impossible to Catch lowers outgoing damage while its active.
3. Impossible to Catch doesn't make you immune to everything when you use it from stealth.
Either one of those would be fine with me. I don't even care about 100% Deflection chance. At least with 100% deflection chance you can still be interrupted/chain stunned. Being literally invulnerable is the only reason its as frustrating as it is.
Yeah, Shocking Execution is horrifying as a GWF. Whenever I hear the sound I know there's nothing I can do. But I can live with that, you have to spec a certain way to do it.
Let's face it. ITC was broken from day1. It's hard to compare different games on a 1:1 scale, but just as an example a lot of the more successful MMOGs feature CC-breakers as very special and strategic power on a much longer cooldown. WoW, for example, puts it on 2-min cooldown for a singular CC-break without further protection. SWTOR has it the same way. These game have different conditions and environments and therefore the cooldown cannot be directly compared, but even so, a power that grants an immediate CC-break as well as 6 second further immunity from it.... on a base 18 second recharge time??? ...which easily comes down to less than 15 with most builds?????
This is just wrong. Plain wrong.
It allows an almost absolute mode of defense where any time you are visible you are in ITC, and any time your ITC is on cooldown you are invisible. Come on, man, let's not lie here. Every TR player who is at least on some amount of veteran level knows that unless you've got like 3~4 enemies non-stop searching for you and spraying AoEs everywhere around, on equal 1:1 conditions nothing breaks the TR defense if its a Sabo.
I've pointed this out since way back in mod2 that this "semi-perma" method of cycling stealth-ITC-stealth-SS may look like its less cheesy than a pure 100% perma, but in reality it's quite the same thing when the TR never exposes any sort of vulnerability in its combat run. Frankly speaking when it's a top-level Sabo on the node, the only way we flush him out is to throw around so much damage that teeney amounts of damage that pass through ITC accumulates so much as to have him on the run. That's usually how it happens.
So, IMO, ITC basically needs one of the three methods of balancing:
1. If TRs want ITC to perform exactly as it is -- an immediate CC break followed by 6 seconds of immunity and 100% deflection, then ITC needs a helluva longer recharge time, at the least, 20 seconds true-time (meaning around 24~25s default, before any recharge reduction applies).
2. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast (13~15s with high recharge builds, default 18 seconds), then something's gotta go: either total CC immunity goes away, or the 100% guaranteed deflection goes away. Personally,
3. If TRs want ITC to be able to be used this fast, but does not want either the CC-related protection or deflection related protection going away, then there needs to be an equal amount of nerf to both factors.
In terms of how the above 3 conditions are interpreted into real powers, it would be something like this:
■ Option 1: Retain everything, increase recharge
- ITC default recharge time is now 30 seconds
■ Option 2: Retain either the CC protection, or the deflection
Option2, version A
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will break you free of any CC(except prones) and retain 3/4/5/6s of CC immunity (same as before)
- ITC now no longer adds any deflection
Option2, version B
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now guarantee that you deflect any incoming attack for the next 3/4/5/6s
- ITC now no longer breaks you free from any CCs, or protects you from it
■ Option 3: Retain everything, but at a reduced performance
- ITC default recharge time Is 18 seconds (same as before)
- ITC will now break you free from a CC, but does not grant you further immunity
- ITC will now add +20/25/30/35% deflection to your current deflection chance for 3/4/5/6s
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
how the hell this post became from perma stealth subject to itc subject????
you want to make a post about itc? make a new one. besides, some of the stuff written here about itc are wrong. itc lasts 6 sec? itc gives you 100% deflect?? really?
stay true to the post subject pls.
thank you
Make a separate thread. Nobody said the GWFs were fine.
Like I've mentioned elsewhere the GWF is a disaster of a class with so many problems which is inefficient and hopeless in combat. The devs did nothing to fix it, and just to appease the GWF players simply smothered it with f**kton of damage buffs applied in wrong amounts and in the wrong way, so before you get to over 3.8k IL the class is a joke, but once it reaches over that point it walks around with a tactical nuke that's tied up to it's weapon.
The devs need to "normalize" it's combat efficiency so that the class has a lot of more attacks and setups with good utility involved that can be used easily and efficiently, and then remove the ridiculous amounts of damage buffs.
I've said this a million times, fought at the GWF forums over it, discussed it with a lot of GWF players as well.
I'd gladly bash the poor design of the GWF in a GWF related thread. But this one's about how TRs have problems with permastealth and other factors which make the majority Sabos invincible. I'm not about to start bashing GWFs here.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Edit: (Please... someone make a MI/Sab video with the Mario music every time ITC is popped.) ROFL
I can DEAL with those things. I can take Mighty Leap and time it so that as soon as I hear the wind up sound from Shocking Execution, I leap. I can find someone whose perma invis by thinking about what I would do if I was a rogue and in stealth. I can deal with someone whose throwing daggers all over the place and dodging around by taking Punishing Charge/Threatening Rush/Bravery/Savage Advance/Ferocious Reaction etc. I can't deal with someone whose always invulnerable whenever they come out stealth.
Empowered ITC lasts 6 seconds at rank 4 and gives near immunity to damage, and total immunity to CC. It is broken in its current state.
A TR(?) complains about hidden dagger buff, when you have piercing dmg and 100% critchance of avoidable damage against that class? You are either horrible at your class or just plain stupid.
Ouch!
10 char