I can do twice as much DPS with 10k GS and the right build than I can with 16k GS and a garbage build. GS is a terrible metric to judge players on - half the stats that contribute to gearscore are near useless for some classes.
People just need to pick up the internet and do a little search on the best build for their class, rather than racking up their mom's credit card trying to please the morons in zone chat.
I'm an 11k GS warlock and I beat Tiamat about 3/4 of the time, and finish in the top 5 every single time.
I can do twice as much DPS with 10k GS and the right build than I can with 16k GS and a garbage build. GS is a terrible metric to judge players on - half the stats that contribute to gearscore are near useless for some classes.
People just need to pick up the internet and do a little search on the best build for their class, rather than racking up their mom's credit card trying to please the morons in zone chat.
I'm an 11k GS warlock and I beat Tiamat about 3/4 of the time, and finish in the top 5 every single time.
Not disagreeing with your general premise, however YOU did not beat Tiamat (no one person does) you just clearly strike lucky with the crew you are running it with!
You only need like 12 people to know what they are doing.. ( 3-4 green and blue gem holders, and 1-2 of the rest) The others can be sheep and follow along... as long as they contribute enough damage.
To contribute damage you really should have 12k+ GS and an augment pet.. One should have 2k armor pen 2k crit and 5k- power...A weapon enchant, and a soul forge. at minimum....
I see a lot of people posting a lot of rubbish here .. I'm 11k gs i'm top5 every time... I'm a 12k gwf I finish top 10 every time.. get out of here. The scoring system isnt even correct... I could go in with an 8k heal-lock or cleric and be top 3 almost every time but i'm not really contributing as one should. The guy boasting he got tiamat achievement on both his sup 11k characters.. dude you got carried.. go away.
I just wish I could queue with a group.. or multiple groups... What kind of team base MMO game prevents this?!!?!
I've been in the queue outside the Tiamat temple quite a few times now and seen people putting up the message "10-13k enter in the first 3 mins, 13k+ enter in last 2 mins". Strangely the 10-13k brigade don't seem to like this idea and enter at the end of the timer with the big hitters who put out lots of dps so that they can of course be carried.
Just looking at their stats while waiting in the queue I see a lot of 10-13k characters who seem to put everything into power and have very little crit and under 5% armour penetration. It's no wonder so many attempts fail with those numbers and it's really frustrating trying to carry these people because they cant be bothered to spend 5 mins researching how to correctly build their various classes.
i dont enter to be carried and dont appreciate you saying i do. what agriviates me is the high gs coming in and taking out summoners and then quitting before first drag comes up or even clerics just to ruin it for the ones trying just because we have low gs
GS is a very flawed metric. It does not consider where your points are assigned. For example you could have a DPS class stacked with defense/deflect to pad your GS. The people who have the time to spam chat with "blah blah GS need to get out" are not contributing to the fight.
Signature under construction, stay tuned. GT: b0red gamer
As some have indicated, you people putting worth in GS are making grave mistake. It literally means almost nothing.
As the poster above indicated, it does not indicate having the RIGHT points. Just more points, it's absurd really how utterly flawed it is, and that people actually consider it.
Many times one piece of gear is far superior to another and has a much lower GS. Yet, you have to give up the better gear so you can hit the "GS" mark or people think your underpowered... and complain.
Defensive stats are utterly useless if you know how to avoid damage and in Tiamat that is what should be happening, IF people use the DS correctly vs the Heads. Yet, someone with gear with a lot more useless stats thinks they are "better" geared than someone with a lower GS... which is often very very wrong.
You need RI AKA Restiance Ignore to harm the bosses of over 20% at least to be valuabe, all the power in the world and all the crit will not make any difference if you have horrid RI. RI is the term I use because of Kaelac, it is far more accurate.
GS does not take into account actual WEAPON DAMAGE, which is the largest factor in how much damage you can do, AKA dps. You can go look up the math and become educated if you want to head on over to laggygamerz and read the math.
GS does not take into account IF you are using a DS, or IF you are actually using a potion to increase your damage by 10% vs dragons, or if you are using all the other potions to buff yourself and your damage.
GS does not take into account you eating damage by being a poor player and thus taking a DC away from doing a little DPS to helpout because they are having to constantly heal everyone. Every little bit helps.
The BEST news is the absurd GS is utterly going away with Mod 6, you GS worshipers will start to get it when it goes away to be replaced by TIL. Total Item Level, that way gear is correctly ranked.
Mod 6 cannot come soon enough to end this sillyness.
As some have indicated, you people putting worth in GS are making grave mistake. It literally means almost nothing.
As the poster above indicated, it does not indicate having the RIGHT points. Just more points, it's absurd really how utterly flawed it is, and that people actually consider it.
Many times one piece of gear is far superior to another and has a much lower GS. Yet, you have to give up the better gear so you can hit the "GS" mark or people think your underpowered... and complain.
Defensive stats are utterly useless if you know how to avoid damage and in Tiamat that is what should be happening, IF people use the DS correctly vs the Heads. Yet, someone with gear with a lot more useless stats thinks they are "better" geared than someone with a lower GS... which is often very very wrong.
You need RI AKA Restiance Ignore to harm the bosses of over 20% at least to be valuabe, all the power in the world and all the crit will not make any difference if you have horrid RI. RI is the term I use because of Kaelac, it is far more accurate.
GS does not take into account actual WEAPON DAMAGE, which is the largest factor in how much damage you can do, AKA dps. You can go look up the math and become educated if you want to head on over to laggygamerz and read the math.
GS does not take into account IF you are using a DS, or IF you are actually using a potion to increase your damage by 10% vs dragons, or if you are using all the other potions to buff yourself and your damage.
GS does not take into account you eating damage by being a poor player and thus taking a DC away from doing a little DPS to helpout because they are having to constantly heal everyone. Every little bit helps.
The BEST news is the absurd GS is utterly going away with Mod 6, you GS worshipers will start to get it when it goes away to be replaced by TIL. Total Item Level, that way gear is correctly ranked.
Mod 6 cannot come soon enough to end this sillyness.
Very well said. I support this post 100%.
Signature under construction, stay tuned. GT: b0red gamer
why do so ppl keep glitching black drag on purpose are they that selfish and just like wasting everyones time and think its fun or are they that spiteful
why do so ppl keep glitching black drag on purpose are they that selfish and just like wasting everyones time and think its fun or are they that spiteful
why do so ppl keep glitching black drag on purpose are they that selfish and just like wasting everyones time and think its fun or are they that spiteful
I recommend you report players you see doing that. Record it, and then report them to Customer Service. (don't name and shame them here on the forums).
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Glitching black and/or too much writing = Tiamat fail. That's my experience with tiamat lobbies. Most of the time the other players are cool and we all work together and that's what count!
As some have indicated, you people putting worth in GS are making grave mistake. It literally means almost nothing.
As the poster above indicated, it does not indicate having the RIGHT points. Just more points, it's absurd really how utterly flawed it is, and that people actually consider it.
Many times one piece of gear is far superior to another and has a much lower GS. Yet, you have to give up the better gear so you can hit the "GS" mark or people think your underpowered... and complain.
Defensive stats are utterly useless if you know how to avoid damage and in Tiamat that is what should be happening, IF people use the DS correctly vs the Heads. Yet, someone with gear with a lot more useless stats thinks they are "better" geared than someone with a lower GS... which is often very very wrong.
You need RI AKA Restiance Ignore to harm the bosses of over 20% at least to be valuabe, all the power in the world and all the crit will not make any difference if you have horrid RI. RI is the term I use because of Kaelac, it is far more accurate.
GS does not take into account actual WEAPON DAMAGE, which is the largest factor in how much damage you can do, AKA dps. You can go look up the math and become educated if you want to head on over to laggygamerz and read the math.
GS does not take into account IF you are using a DS, or IF you are actually using a potion to increase your damage by 10% vs dragons, or if you are using all the other potions to buff yourself and your damage.
GS does not take into account you eating damage by being a poor player and thus taking a DC away from doing a little DPS to helpout because they are having to constantly heal everyone. Every little bit helps.
The BEST news is the absurd GS is utterly going away with Mod 6, you GS worshipers will start to get it when it goes away to be replaced by TIL. Total Item Level, that way gear is correctly ranked.
Mod 6 cannot come soon enough to end this sillyness.
Lol.. what? It's not common to see a 17k tr rolling around with tank stats. I think you took an alright idea to the extreme.
What is common to see is a 10k with no enchants slotted, random combination of gear that he happened to buy or get off a drop, a random artifact or 2, with 3k power and 183 arpen.
Yeah gs isnt the end all measure, but it works pretty well in this case. And no, i dont leave the room after i scan and see a loss coming. I fight with them, and lose.
People leaving is a major problem - just did a failed run where I saw 4 or 5 leave after phase one when red was down to 50% - wtf - we ended about 6% short on phase 3 on white - leaving early should incur 3 hour ban from running the raid
I agree with the above post. People leave when there is still a chance for success. At any rate the update in September will shut down all the GS nonsense. Of course it will just leave "experts" saying your TIL is too low. That is the nature of the beast. I enjoy the game and will continue to do so. I also enjoy helping others so if you want to add me and run feel free to do so. GT is b0red gamer.
Signature under construction, stay tuned. GT: b0red gamer
I would like to see this talk about vote-to-kick system thats a annoying problem at least gearing up as soon as you fail the boss once people start to kicking out those with lower gears score instead of looking at taktics ive been in dungeons with people who have a high gearscore that dont have a clue what their role is in the fight. Instead all trying to kill the boss so they end up on top of scoreboard and not doin what they suppous to do......cw doing his thing. Gwf doing his and so on.......as far im conserned they should drop the vote-to-kick system all together or at least do it so if you trying to kick somebody all of the other player must vote yes not just couple buddies that want their friends in at the end....or to have the loot to them selves...
> @salacious66 said: > People leaving is a major problem - just did a failed run where I saw 4 or 5 leave after phase one when red was down to 50% - wtf - we ended about 6% short on phase 3 on white - leaving early should incur 3 hour ban from running the raid
This here is probably the cause of the vast majority of losses that I have seen.
@Zunamar Head on over to the player feedback section and you will threads suggesting the removal of VTK because of all of the abuse of the tool. Not to derail this thread, but it was indicated that more changes are coming to VTK when Mod 6 hits.
Just to point out that Tiamat is going up to L70 req after the update so Cryptic won't bother making any changes due to the short time frame between now and then.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
If you have 10k GS you have no dps, or no def. I dont care if you put 1/2 of that into attack, your still garbage you lack in recovery, defence, and crit. GS doesn't define the skill of the player-valid, but you cant pull dps from thin air. DPS "damage per second" if you made it through Tiamat and only do 100k damage per second with your 10k GS thats cause 18-25k hunter rangers and tricksters with 8-10k power a butt ton of crit and severity were rocking 500k-1 mill DPS and carried the dps load. Sad but true. I'm sure given an hour your team of tier 1 misfits could whittle her down.. but you have 6 mins assuming you bring her down 3 times.
Show me a 10k GS that can do that kind of damage. Cause i toss damage like a mad m* f* and i personally can damage a tiamat head 1/4 of its health solo, meaning you need a minimum of 12 of MY dps ability to get throught the 3 heads first round. not accounting for travel time etc. But thats where debuffs and buffs and support roles come in.
****It cannot be done without the dps.****<-- TRUTH!! YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!! Go back to school and lay off the drugs.
Take your 10k character to the PVP dummies and come back to me with how good your character really is and how much damage you deal compared to the hundred millions of health per head.
If you have 10k GS you have no dps, or no def. I dont care if you put 1/2 of that into attack, your still garbage you lack in recovery, defence, and crit. GS doesn't define the skill of the player-valid, but you cant pull dps from thin air. DPS "damage per second" if you made it through Tiamat and only do 100k damage per second with your 10k GS thats cause 18-25k hunter rangers and tricksters with 8-10k power a butt ton of crit and severity were rocking 500k-1 mill DPS and carried the dps load. Sad but true. I'm sure given an hour your team of tier 1 misfits could whittle her down.. but you have 6 mins assuming you bring her down 3 times.
Show me a 10k GS that can do that kind of damage. Cause i toss damage like a mad m* f* and i personally can damage a tiamat head 1/4 of its health solo, meaning you need a minimum of 12 of MY dps ability to get throught the 3 heads first round. not accounting for travel time etc. But thats where debuffs and buffs and support roles come in.
****It cannot be done without the dps.****<-- TRUTH!! YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!! Go back to school and lay off the drugs.
Take your 10k character to the PVP dummies and come back to me with how good your character really is and how much damage you deal compared to the hundred millions of health per head.
This is so beyond true.... im tired of hearing how a 10k gs doesnt represent skill and how they are valuable in tiamat. Ppl are so delusional. They are getting carried plan and simple. It doesnt matter how good u are. At 10k gs, even with an ioun stone, u just dont have the stats to be useful. Clerics are the exception if played right, but they arent the dps part of the team
just spit balling.. but if we have a 10k and being generous here with 5k power 1k crit/def/reg/rec/def your telling me you can build a 17 k worse than that.. I think it would take a lot of talent and effort to be that bad.. either way both are useless to me.
One of the Tiamat runs I did yesterday I failed on. I looked around and there were 10 k people with no armor pen. I sent a message to a ranger with 600 AP and asked in pm, "What are you going to do with 600 AP? Smile at TIamat?" That infuritated the guy and he said out in say, "This is my alt." and then he started insulting me trying to put the blame on me. The noob was claiming that because of 20 k guys quitting were the reason for Tiamat fails. I didn't quit til after the second run when there was no chance at all.
It's funny when these noobs expect to be carried and ruin it for everyone else that actually tries. Stop trying to do Tiamat with junk gear. Get out noone wants you and you are ruining it for everyone else.
Yesterday I saw a 10k TR outside the door before we went in - he had 2.7k power, 2k crit and 1.5k AP. Ofc less than 650 of his AP would apply.
He got into the same group as me and just my luck, on the same cleric too.
After a couple of minutes I saw him running away from a mob with his HP around his ankles - straight up the stairs and didn't come back. My guess is he sat at the campfire hoping everyone else would win it for him.
As I didn't die I can't confirm that part but all this talk about 'a good 10k v a bad 17k' is very misleading. Very few players will get to 17k and not learn from their early mistakes (PvP is a great teacher).
I look at a lot of players GS and stats as it's a way of me learning and improving. Most high GS players have stats in all the right places. Yes there are exceptions but you cannot base a reasonable argument on exceptions.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Why do people persist in using the wrong coloured gems on the dragon heads? The amount of people who continue to use green gems on the black head and blue gems on the red head is unbelievable. Don't they realise that they are actually protecting the dragon heads in doing this. This invariably leads to them having no gems for green and blue so that just about everyone gets wiped out on those two heads and then proceed to lay on the floor around calling for help.
I really cannot understand why it is so difficult for people to use the correct coloured gem on the corresponding dragon head, it's rally not rocket science is it?
Comments
People just need to pick up the internet and do a little search on the best build for their class, rather than racking up their mom's credit card trying to please the morons in zone chat.
I'm an 11k GS warlock and I beat Tiamat about 3/4 of the time, and finish in the top 5 every single time.
Not disagreeing with your general premise, however YOU did not beat Tiamat (no one person does) you just clearly strike lucky with the crew you are running it with!
To contribute damage you really should have 12k+ GS and an augment pet.. One should have 2k armor pen 2k crit and 5k- power...A weapon enchant, and a soul forge. at minimum....
I see a lot of people posting a lot of rubbish here .. I'm 11k gs i'm top5 every time... I'm a 12k gwf I finish top 10 every time.. get out of here. The scoring system isnt even correct... I could go in with an 8k heal-lock or cleric and be top 3 almost every time but i'm not really contributing as one should. The guy boasting he got tiamat achievement on both his sup 11k characters.. dude you got carried.. go away.
I just wish I could queue with a group.. or multiple groups... What kind of team base MMO game prevents this?!!?!
Just looking at their stats while waiting in the queue I see a lot of 10-13k characters who seem to put everything into power and have very little crit and under 5% armour penetration. It's no wonder so many attempts fail with those numbers and it's really frustrating trying to carry these people because they cant be bothered to spend 5 mins researching how to correctly build their various classes.
GT: b0red gamer
As the poster above indicated, it does not indicate having the RIGHT points. Just more points, it's absurd really how utterly flawed it is, and that people actually consider it.
Many times one piece of gear is far superior to another and has a much lower GS. Yet, you have to give up the better gear so you can hit the "GS" mark or people think your underpowered... and complain.
Defensive stats are utterly useless if you know how to avoid damage and in Tiamat that is what should be happening, IF people use the DS correctly vs the Heads. Yet, someone with gear with a lot more useless stats thinks they are "better" geared than someone with a lower GS... which is often very very wrong.
You need RI AKA Restiance Ignore to harm the bosses of over 20% at least to be valuabe, all the power in the world and all the crit will not make any difference if you have horrid RI. RI is the term I use because of Kaelac, it is far more accurate.
GS does not take into account actual WEAPON DAMAGE, which is the largest factor in how much damage you can do, AKA dps. You can go look up the math and become educated if you want to head on over to laggygamerz and read the math.
GS does not take into account IF you are using a DS, or IF you are actually using a potion to increase your damage by 10% vs dragons, or if you are using all the other potions to buff yourself and your damage.
GS does not take into account you eating damage by being a poor player and thus taking a DC away from doing a little DPS to helpout because they are having to constantly heal everyone. Every little bit helps.
The BEST news is the absurd GS is utterly going away with Mod 6, you GS worshipers will start to get it when it goes away to be replaced by TIL. Total Item Level, that way gear is correctly ranked.
Mod 6 cannot come soon enough to end this sillyness.
Very well said. I support this post 100%.
GT: b0red gamer
Both, some of them even brag about it in Zone
I recommend you report players you see doing that. Record it, and then report them to Customer Service. (don't name and shame them here on the forums).
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Lol.. what? It's not common to see a 17k tr rolling around with tank stats. I think you took an alright idea to the extreme.
What is common to see is a 10k with no enchants slotted, random combination of gear that he happened to buy or get off a drop, a random artifact or 2, with 3k power and 183 arpen.
Yeah gs isnt the end all measure, but it works pretty well in this case. And no, i dont leave the room after i scan and see a loss coming. I fight with them, and lose.
GT: b0red gamer
> People leaving is a major problem - just did a failed run where I saw 4 or 5 leave after phase one when red was down to 50% - wtf - we ended about 6% short on phase 3 on white - leaving early should incur 3 hour ban from running the raid
This here is probably the cause of the vast majority of losses that I have seen.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Show me a 10k GS that can do that kind of damage. Cause i toss damage like a mad m* f* and i personally can damage a tiamat head 1/4 of its health solo, meaning you need a minimum of 12 of MY dps ability to get throught the 3 heads first round. not accounting for travel time etc. But thats where debuffs and buffs and support roles come in.
****It cannot be done without the dps.****<-- TRUTH!! YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!! Go back to school and lay off the drugs.
Take your 10k character to the PVP dummies and come back to me with how good your character really is and how much damage you deal compared to the hundred millions of health per head.
This is so beyond true.... im tired of hearing how a 10k gs doesnt represent skill and how they are valuable in tiamat. Ppl are so delusional. They are getting carried plan and simple. It doesnt matter how good u are. At 10k gs, even with an ioun stone, u just dont have the stats to be useful. Clerics are the exception if played right, but they arent the dps part of the team
It's funny when these noobs expect to be carried and ruin it for everyone else that actually tries. Stop trying to do Tiamat with junk gear. Get out noone wants you and you are ruining it for everyone else.
He got into the same group as me and just my luck, on the same cleric too.
After a couple of minutes I saw him running away from a mob with his HP around his ankles - straight up the stairs and didn't come back. My guess is he sat at the campfire hoping everyone else would win it for him.
As I didn't die I can't confirm that part but all this talk about 'a good 10k v a bad 17k' is very misleading. Very few players will get to 17k and not learn from their early mistakes (PvP is a great teacher).
I look at a lot of players GS and stats as it's a way of me learning and improving. Most high GS players have stats in all the right places. Yes there are exceptions but you cannot base a reasonable argument on exceptions.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I really cannot understand why it is so difficult for people to use the correct coloured gem on the corresponding dragon head, it's rally not rocket science is it?
Does anybody have a link to how item level works and what effects it? Would be nice to understand it.