My biggest issue is this - people are complaining that they actually have to log in the game now to earn money. In my opinion (which is in no way influenced or endorsed by Cryptic or PWE) they should have never allowed Leadership to be done on the Gateway in the first place. You should not be able to earn money and level up in game without ever logging on past level 10. If you don't have time to play the game, then you don't have time to do the leadership tasks in the first place. Just my 2 cents.
I agree on the you should not be able to earn money if you don't play part, but the real question is what is there to play or farm in the current state of the game that can net you 30-60mil AD every mod in order to keep up competitively??
I wish leadership never exists if there are tons of farmable content, not just for pvers but also pvpers, that everyone has to WORK HARD AND PLAY to earn their bis items. This isnt about leadership on gateway anymore, its about how can one progress in game without it to be able to enjoy their hard-earned gear longer before they render everything useless in the next mod.
My biggest issue is this - people are complaining that they actually have to log in the game now to earn money. In my opinion (which is in no way influenced or endorsed by Cryptic or PWE) they should have never allowed Leadership to be done on the Gateway in the first place. You should not be able to earn money and level up in game without ever logging on past level 10. If you don't have time to play the game, then you don't have time to do the leadership tasks in the first place. Just my 2 cents.
I hate to state the obvious but when using the Gateway you are online and logged in to 'the Game'. The Gateway is and always has been a part of the Neverwinter Game even though it has officially never got past the 'Beta' stage according to the title page. Why do people keep differentiating between the Gateway and 'the Game', they are both part and parcel of the same thing ? Using the Gateway is playing the Game just as much as fighting Dragons, completing quests and refining artifacts and weapons. If this is not the case, then it the Gateway should never have been created in the first place.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
I hate to state the obvious but when using the Gateway you are online and logged in to 'the Game'. The Gateway is and always has been a part of the Neverwinter Game even though it has officially never got past the 'Beta' stage according to the title page. Why do people keep differentiating between the Gateway and 'the Game', they are both part and parcel of the same thing ? Using the Gateway is playing the Game just as much as fighting Dragons, completing quests and refining artifacts and weapons. If this is not the case, then it the Gateway should never have been created in the first place.
Exactly. It's another case of being tied into playing the game one way, removing the freedom of choice. The game continues to narrow our choices of gameplay. From never investing in Foundry since launch, separating the PVE and PVP trees (everyone knows you can be great at one or the other but not without sacrificing the other), classes getting stripped down to one playable tree, needing to pvp for pve boon structures, etc.
It appears the goal is to further reduce freedom of choice and individuality and turn NW into a rail shooter.
I have friends that play the AH game. For them that is fun (i don't get it but they do love it), I have friends that are foundry junkies even though this game has shown them no love, i have friends that are pvp only, pve only, roleplayers, etc. The goal of an mmo should be to provide a little something for everyone (or provide a lot of something for a niche group), this game has always been a little something for everyone. Why continue to change that?
Obviously I can not speak for everyone, but personally, I can do leadership just as fast in game as I was doing on the Gateway. Maybe a little slower with invoking too, but I don't have to keep clicking through the pages in the game and it remembers where I was scrolled to. Just my 2 cents. Not being able to do it away from home kinda sucks, but I just deal with that. The Exchange did go down and I am hoping it doesn't go back up in the millions again. Personally, I don't think that it will.
I can see your point Kreatyve, but from my perspective as a gamer with little to no time to play the game, what with alot of drive time and working construction, volunteer fire services etc. it's extremely helpful to have leadership on gateway usable on phone or tablet anywhere...if I were to rely on getting astrals through dailies and professions when I am at home and able to get in the game ...I would only have maybe 30k per day...we all know what with the changes...refining artifact gear....getting cubes of augmentation (hundreds for some people) ...refining normal artifacts (since mod 6 we now have 4 and they go to mythic?!) ...I have rank 8 enchants and barely have a 2.6 item level...which the item levels are flawed...lol my gear says I have regen on some pieces but when I scroll down the list on the character sheet says I have no regen....so for a long time I was trying to get regen....we can't know all the bugs and compensate for all of them but the point is...30k for the time I have alotted is not enough....and that's on 2 characters! if there were more possible that I could get more ad on all 13 characters...I'd love to do it but I don't have the time to do dailies on all of them. and the most irritating part is the fact that i would have a far easier time of getting astrals each day if the daily refine limit was not 24k.... we all need about 8mil astrals worth of refinement per artifact piece on one character....and about 6mil per main artifacts such as the sigil of the controller to get them to the refined level needed to finish the T2 dungeons...we all seem to NEED rank 10s in order to have a reasonable time in dungeons....with my CW that has rank 8 enchants and elven gear~89k HP I get one-shot killed? no amount of defense is enough...i see guardian fighters with nearly 200k hit points get one-shot killed over and over in T1 and T2 dungeons.....The devs forced more good people I bet to find out how to bot in leadership or in game....BECAUSE they took epic drops from the roll tables in dungeons...good people enjoyed running frozen heart...castle never....valindra's tower...malabog's castle....all of which gave were fun and gave us all a reason to run the dungeons, I just learned that the aurora's catalogue, the lantern of revelation, and the waters of elazad... are dropping for individuals in the 3 man dungeons?! that's sad....
1. We need the leadership on gateway.
2. We need items worth using to be dropped in dungeons....for the party to roll for...JUST LIKE IN D&D paper and dice!!!!
3. We need more refinement to drop from heroic encounters or from dragon hoard enchants...etc.
4. Last but not least...we need more content and less problems!!!! Stop making the game seem more like a job....it was fun for 4 modules......Tyranny of Dragons was fun but there were changes that have started ruining the game from that time and since then....it's become too difficult to enjoy the game...I don't even have the motivation to get another character/class up thru dailies because it's a daunting prospect knowing all the things needed done to get another character up to par with other players....I would waste my limited time to play the game (and don't even try to say I'm the only one with limited time) and run other class characters and get them up to par with other players and all if the grind was as it used to be! In Module 4!!!!!
5. FIX THE GAME
I think the double RAD is kinda useless if you have a 70th level toon and doesn't have 4+ alts to work on it, if I play enough, I make much more than 24000 RAD, but can't refine that much. During those 2xAD events, the refinement limit shoud be doubled too, so you can really have an outstanding result instead of the same stuff you had everyday.
There are several players with hundreds of thousands RADs and start their day refining 24k and end earning 36k RAD, over 70k during 2xAD.
That's what I think.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Gateway still just says "No data available in table" when attempting to look at Leadership tasks. You need a proper error message that won't utterly confound anyone who doesn't check news posts.
Preview patch notes for Strongholds indicated better error messaging should be in effect, but the preview Gateway error is the same as live.
So, I actually noticed what they've done differently on preview Gateway. First, the box in the sidebar has greyed out text for Leadership instead of gold like all the available professions. Second, if you mouse over that box, the popup which usually just gives details on your profession XP also says "This profession is not available through Gateway". But if you just click into the profession like normal, it doesn't look any different.
Also, the "not available" message is not particularly indicative of any intent of this being a temporary measure.
I think the double RAD is kinda useless if you have a 70th level toon and doesn't have 4+ alts to work on it, if I play enough, I make much more than 24000 RAD, but can't refine that much. During those 2xAD events, the refinement limit shoud be doubled too, so you can really have an outstanding result instead of the same stuff you had everyday.
There are several players with hundreds of thousands RADs and start their day refining 24k and end earning 36k RAD, over 70k during 2xAD.
That's what I think.
Agreed, the toons that get played get their 24k RAD limit every day. It's the alt farms relying on leadership/invoking that don't make 24k a day each (unless they have higher speed adventures).
My biggest issue is this - people are complaining that they actually have to log in the game now to earn money. In my opinion (which is in no way influenced or endorsed by Cryptic or PWE) they should have never allowed Leadership to be done on the Gateway in the first place. You should not be able to earn money and level up in game without ever logging on past level 10. If you don't have time to play the game, then you don't have time to do the leadership tasks in the first place. Just my 2 cents.
that is great, here is my 2 cents:
the problem is if the gateway didn't exist, I would never have gotten into this game.
This is exactly what kept me around after taking my 1st char to 60 too, after the novelty wore off. This is the only MMO where you have a web aspect (that helps you progress). Without that there really is no reason to stick around if you compare it to the other MMOs out there. Even the free ones.
Also, from what I read on the test server forums Strongholds will nerf our finances even further; A guild will need around 100 -million- AD to get their buildings (and thus your boons) to max level. Under the recent regime cutting off all realistic AD opportunities, can you see your active members of your guild each dishing out 5 million AD in donations to keep competitive?
Imagine what will happen..
Try 46M per boon building, that's doesn't include the stronghold upgrades, market, mine, farm, or lumber yard.
Zen purchasing will be up, to convert over to AD...
Very much like how it is in STO... I know my old Fleet Leaders were often putting real cash towards our structures in order to help advance them.
In the end, fresh cash crop for Cryptic....
Or more rats will abandon the ship.
Quote removed.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Discussing moderation is prohibited on these forums. If you have a question about why your comment was removed, please feel free to PM any member of the moderation team and we will happily answer your questions. Thank you!
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Ok, I'll try again... This "update" is anything but an update. It doesn't say anything that the initial announcement didn't other than you didn't see any increased bot activity. If you can detect some sort of baseline bot activity, which I would assume you can or how would you know that it hasn't increased, why aren't those accounts being banned?
This seems nothing more than a placebo post like was done with the Module 6 changes which seem to have faded away after one or two promising rounds of patches.
Constructive feedback: If this change was all about AD botting, which was stated by Cryptic itself, why not keep Leadership tasks that don't grant AD on the gateway and just filter out the ones with AD as a reward. This will still allow people to at least work on raising their level. It's pretty painful making it to level 25 and being only able to do that within the game will be even worse.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
I've heard of several bans happening; however, it appears the teams are using profiling (accounts with a lot of characters are what's getting targeted) instead of finding evidence of bot activity. So I'm not convinced that there is any real bot detection going on.
Don't forget that there have been other changes to leadership lately. The completion times for the tasks earning the best AD were lengthened. That was the first change to limit the AD we can earn. Dungeons and skirmishes were removed from the game, another change to limit the AD we can earn. What's left? Getting out your wallet and buying zen to convert to AD. This has absolutely nothing to do with botters, it's about cash for Cryptic.
In regards to the "update", if Cryptic can review the logs and database to determine that botters have not moved in-game to do leadership, then why can't they identify the botters that are somehow grinding huge amounts of RP?
Personally, this situation isn't acceptable for me. Instead of fixing the biggest mistakes in Mod 6 (starting with the fact that Mod 6 even exists), you're doubling down on making the game far less fun to play. As well as far more inconvenient to your player base, thanks to having so few ways to make any decent amounts of Astral Diamonds.
You claim you're 'observing' the amounts in game, but it hasn't been enough for a while now. What more is there to observe? New players can't afford what you've done to this game, how much longer do you need?
I haven't logged in for at least a month or two now, and I won't be until you start making this a game again. The word there is entertainment. This isn't entertaining in the slightest anymore, it's more like a second job or a money sink.
I do not understand why they took the Leadership away from Gateway. I used Gateway all the time because while at work, I cannot log onto the game. You can't get many astral diamonds in a 24 hour period since they raised all the times to do the tasks. I get about 4K -8K in a 24 hour period plus what I get from invoking because of the times. Usually it is closer to the 4-5K range. >:)
Well, for what it is worth, I'll add my .02 AD here:
1. Is leadership ever coming back to Gateway in any form? Period. Yes or No.
2. Do the devs have any plans (in the next several mods) to make changes to (or remove) leadership in game?
What he said.
If i may make some suggestions/pleas that i'm sure have already been made somewhere:
- I'd be content if leadership came back to gateway even partially, say up to task at level ~14 (war games training/patrol mines to be clear) that are reasonably long and give "enough" profession experience. You can even take out AD generating tasks, at least can level profession without logging in every 2/4 hours.
- if you plan to leave it only in game, pretty please add either a queue (maybe with a limit, say 4 tasks or 24 hours max) or for lower prof levels add longer tasks to level up profession.
I'm sorry, but I would not be happy with professions up to level 14. I bet many, myself included use the level 4-8 hour 20-25 professions on a daily basis to get refining stones, not AD.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
I'm sorry, but I would not be happy with professions up to level 14. I bet many, myself included use the level 4-8 hour 20-25 professions on a daily basis to get refining stones, not AD.
There's no reason they couldn't just filter out the AD granting task on the Gateway. If they really wanted to.
My biggest issue is this - people are complaining that they actually have to log in the game now to earn money. In my opinion (which is in no way influenced or endorsed by Cryptic or PWE) they should have never allowed Leadership to be done on the Gateway in the first place. You should not be able to earn money and level up in game without ever logging on past level 10. If you don't have time to play the game, then you don't have time to do the leadership tasks in the first place. Just my 2 cents.
You are taking a creative path to a shortsighted opinion. That is an opinion that the whales and the BiS (by means which could be considered questionable) would agree with wholeheartedly as they have zero interest in seeing the average player able to make any more than negligible progress towards BiS status even when pouring hours into the game. For those with a job that isn't playing video games all day and God forbid a family to care for (a fairly sizable portion of the playerbase given the average age of D&D fans) time in game is at a huge premium. If that small amount of time has to be devoted to professions in order to make any tangible progress, then there is no time left to play the game content. If there is no time to play the game content and/or the game content becomes a stale grind with little to no "fun" present the only logical conclusion to anticipate would be a quickly and vastly diminishing playerbase.
Comments
I agree on the you should not be able to earn money if you don't play part, but the real question is what is there to play or farm in the current state of the game that can net you 30-60mil AD every mod in order to keep up competitively??
I wish leadership never exists if there are tons of farmable content, not just for pvers but also pvpers, that everyone has to WORK HARD AND PLAY to earn their bis items. This isnt about leadership on gateway anymore, its about how can one progress in game without it to be able to enjoy their hard-earned gear longer before they render everything useless in the next mod.
Exactly. It's another case of being tied into playing the game one way, removing the freedom of choice. The game continues to narrow our choices of gameplay. From never investing in Foundry since launch, separating the PVE and PVP trees (everyone knows you can be great at one or the other but not without sacrificing the other), classes getting stripped down to one playable tree, needing to pvp for pve boon structures, etc.
It appears the goal is to further reduce freedom of choice and individuality and turn NW into a rail shooter.
I have friends that play the AH game. For them that is fun (i don't get it but they do love it), I have friends that are foundry junkies even though this game has shown them no love, i have friends that are pvp only, pve only, roleplayers, etc. The goal of an mmo should be to provide a little something for everyone (or provide a lot of something for a niche group), this game has always been a little something for everyone. Why continue to change that?
Does that mean there is a certain amount botting going on but we are fine with it as long as its not too much?
I can see your point Kreatyve, but from my perspective as a gamer with little to no time to play the game, what with alot of drive time and working construction, volunteer fire services etc. it's extremely helpful to have leadership on gateway usable on phone or tablet anywhere...if I were to rely on getting astrals through dailies and professions when I am at home and able to get in the game ...I would only have maybe 30k per day...we all know what with the changes...refining artifact gear....getting cubes of augmentation (hundreds for some people) ...refining normal artifacts (since mod 6 we now have 4 and they go to mythic?!) ...I have rank 8 enchants and barely have a 2.6 item level...which the item levels are flawed...lol my gear says I have regen on some pieces but when I scroll down the list on the character sheet says I have no regen....so for a long time I was trying to get regen....we can't know all the bugs and compensate for all of them but the point is...30k for the time I have alotted is not enough....and that's on 2 characters! if there were more possible that I could get more ad on all 13 characters...I'd love to do it but I don't have the time to do dailies on all of them. and the most irritating part is the fact that i would have a far easier time of getting astrals each day if the daily refine limit was not 24k.... we all need about 8mil astrals worth of refinement per artifact piece on one character....and about 6mil per main artifacts such as the sigil of the controller to get them to the refined level needed to finish the T2 dungeons...we all seem to NEED rank 10s in order to have a reasonable time in dungeons....with my CW that has rank 8 enchants and elven gear~89k HP I get one-shot killed? no amount of defense is enough...i see guardian fighters with nearly 200k hit points get one-shot killed over and over in T1 and T2 dungeons.....The devs forced more good people I bet to find out how to bot in leadership or in game....BECAUSE they took epic drops from the roll tables in dungeons...good people enjoyed running frozen heart...castle never....valindra's tower...malabog's castle....all of which gave were fun and gave us all a reason to run the dungeons, I just learned that the aurora's catalogue, the lantern of revelation, and the waters of elazad... are dropping for individuals in the 3 man dungeons?! that's sad....
1. We need the leadership on gateway.
2. We need items worth using to be dropped in dungeons....for the party to roll for...JUST LIKE IN D&D paper and dice!!!!
3. We need more refinement to drop from heroic encounters or from dragon hoard enchants...etc.
4. Last but not least...we need more content and less problems!!!! Stop making the game seem more like a job....it was fun for 4 modules......Tyranny of Dragons was fun but there were changes that have started ruining the game from that time and since then....it's become too difficult to enjoy the game...I don't even have the motivation to get another character/class up thru dailies because it's a daunting prospect knowing all the things needed done to get another character up to par with other players....I would waste my limited time to play the game (and don't even try to say I'm the only one with limited time) and run other class characters and get them up to par with other players and all if the grind was as it used to be! In Module 4!!!!!
5. FIX THE GAME
There are several players with hundreds of thousands RADs and start their day refining 24k and end earning 36k RAD, over 70k during 2xAD.
That's what I think.
So, I actually noticed what they've done differently on preview Gateway. First, the box in the sidebar has greyed out text for Leadership instead of gold like all the available professions. Second, if you mouse over that box, the popup which usually just gives details on your profession XP also says "This profession is not available through Gateway". But if you just click into the profession like normal, it doesn't look any different.
Also, the "not available" message is not particularly indicative of any intent of this being a temporary measure.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Agreed, the toons that get played get their 24k RAD limit every day. It's the alt farms relying on leadership/invoking that don't make 24k a day each (unless they have higher speed adventures).
Try 46M per boon building, that's doesn't include the stronghold upgrades, market, mine, farm, or lumber yard.
Or more rats will abandon the ship.
Quote removed.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
This seems nothing more than a placebo post like was done with the Module 6 changes which seem to have faded away after one or two promising rounds of patches.
Constructive feedback: If this change was all about AD botting, which was stated by Cryptic itself, why not keep Leadership tasks that don't grant AD on the gateway and just filter out the ones with AD as a reward. This will still allow people to at least work on raising their level. It's pretty painful making it to level 25 and being only able to do that within the game will be even worse.
I've heard of several bans happening; however, it appears the teams are using profiling (accounts with a lot of characters are what's getting targeted) instead of finding evidence of bot activity. So I'm not convinced that there is any real bot detection going on.
In regards to the "update", if Cryptic can review the logs and database to determine that botters have not moved in-game to do leadership, then why can't they identify the botters that are somehow grinding huge amounts of RP?
You claim you're 'observing' the amounts in game, but it hasn't been enough for a while now. What more is there to observe? New players can't afford what you've done to this game, how much longer do you need?
I haven't logged in for at least a month or two now, and I won't be until you start making this a game again. The word there is entertainment. This isn't entertaining in the slightest anymore, it's more like a second job or a money sink.
There's no reason they couldn't just filter out the AD granting task on the Gateway. If they really wanted to.
You are taking a creative path to a shortsighted opinion. That is an opinion that the whales and the BiS (by means which could be considered questionable) would agree with wholeheartedly as they have zero interest in seeing the average player able to make any more than negligible progress towards BiS status even when pouring hours into the game. For those with a job that isn't playing video games all day and God forbid a family to care for (a fairly sizable portion of the playerbase given the average age of D&D fans) time in game is at a huge premium. If that small amount of time has to be devoted to professions in order to make any tangible progress, then there is no time left to play the game content. If there is no time to play the game content and/or the game content becomes a stale grind with little to no "fun" present the only logical conclusion to anticipate would be a quickly and vastly diminishing playerbase.