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Could we maybe just, reward playing?
cstrife16
Member Posts: 14 Arc User
So stuff happened to Leadership and everyone has an opinion but, how about a new approach.
Instead of punishing people who do nothing...
REWARD people who do SOMETHING.
T1 / T2 bound to account rewards, boss drops, chest drops, good, high quality rewards. Skirmish rewards, pvp rewards.
Bots will always exist, and always exploit stuff, so instead of looking at what is exploitable and changing it, look at what isn't exploiatable and add to it.
I doubt a bot could successfully make it through a T2 dungeon, and if the rewards are dropped per player and Bind to Account, there shouldn't be a kicking problem at the end of a run.
Some suggestions:
Have Bind to Account armour / weapons / enchantments / refinement items that drop from bosses / minibosses / small chance of dropping when killing other players.
bring back armour sets, give us a reason to do everything in the game, maybe parts of a set from professions, parts from pve, parts from foundry.
I'm not an economist and I won't pretend to understand how the economy will change, but it seems a lot of the player anger, myself inculded, stems from the fact we can't achieve more by just, playing, the, game.
TL:DR: Make harder content give better rewards, so bots can't do it.
Instead of punishing people who do nothing...
REWARD people who do SOMETHING.
T1 / T2 bound to account rewards, boss drops, chest drops, good, high quality rewards. Skirmish rewards, pvp rewards.
Bots will always exist, and always exploit stuff, so instead of looking at what is exploitable and changing it, look at what isn't exploiatable and add to it.
I doubt a bot could successfully make it through a T2 dungeon, and if the rewards are dropped per player and Bind to Account, there shouldn't be a kicking problem at the end of a run.
Some suggestions:
Have Bind to Account armour / weapons / enchantments / refinement items that drop from bosses / minibosses / small chance of dropping when killing other players.
bring back armour sets, give us a reason to do everything in the game, maybe parts of a set from professions, parts from pve, parts from foundry.
I'm not an economist and I won't pretend to understand how the economy will change, but it seems a lot of the player anger, myself inculded, stems from the fact we can't achieve more by just, playing, the, game.
TL:DR: Make harder content give better rewards, so bots can't do it.
Post edited by cstrife16 on
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I mostly wile away my playing hours just invoking doing Leadership on the Gateway because it is SO MUCH MORE REWARDING THAN THE ACTUAL GAME.
A running joke among my friends is, "Gee, I miss the days when I would log on to Neverwinter and actually play it."
I wouldn't have made so many leadership alts in the first place if there was an actual decent source of AD in the game. If the amount of grinding required for RP for artifacts (or to get decent gear) wasn't insane.
Sorry, but at this point, they're ruining everything about the game that made it fun. And this is on top of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> me out of the companions I was promised in that recent promotion. I'm just going to quit at this rate.
Also - make different rewards on different T2, so you have to complete all dungeons, not just farm 1. And, obviously, fix eCC last boss. Armor sets in mod 2 were great solution - BoP from chest, BoE from boss. Different parts in different dungeons.
Reward party-based play... and not solo-based. Sorry... it should not hurt solo players that much. Add huge rewards that are BoP or BoA for mini DDs, DDs, Skirmishes and SH map based solo actions. I do not think bots would join a guild. To include the solo players in SH... allow a certain mount of "allies" for each guild. Allies who are solo players that are willing to create an alliance with a guild so they may earn some of the SH based rewards. Suggest that all solo players do this to insure their continued enjoyment of the game.
Bots will make guilds and will make parties. There is nothing about a group that hinders a bot, not even remotely.
Bots won't really be capable of doing more than forming a party, though. There's a reason we don't see bots running most PVE stuff now - they can only do simple things. Making a bot capable of actually running content isn't easy. At most they can farm some nodes on specific maps that spawn mobs predictably, or foundries that are set up specifically for them.
That still isn't really disproving what I said. That's still an incredibly simple example, and even you admit that it's complicated for a bot to do. Anything harder than that, they're not going to be able to complete, especially something that requires coordinated teamwork. I didn't say bots couldn't make guilds or groups, just that they're not really going to be able to do anything useful with them, at least, certainly not very fast.
They are not open parties and they do not have open guilds. They are also closed parties and instantly re-start mission, they flicker in an out of the hub channel and they are not going to be in the open. Such bots, park the armies in some remote location while queuing for a mission over and over, or anywhere that will redeposit them where GMs are not watching aggressively. They will also have concurrent accounts running they are not going to be using a single bot; It's not even a joke, they will run armies of characters at a mission.
Final fantasy had bot guilds locking down heroic encounters and selling the loot before Sony went on a bot massacre and banned all the accounts and expunged all the currency. My brother was playing that, not I, but it's not uncommon in games that have heroic encounters to have bot legions lock them down.
The only mission I see they can not just send oceans of parties at are the heroic/epic mission that have absurd gear requirements. But that is not something that CAN stop them unless you have a ever watchful force of GMs banning them. It's only a time hurdle for the bot and then they have a monopoly.
Edit: typos and errors
This game is as simple like Vindictus, there is not even a hurdle with coordination. Seriously, these people that make bots will pick GWF or something simple. There is no great complexity in this game that they can not overcome.
also, they should set a minimum level (15-20) for zone/trade/lfg chat. and set a GM to ban spammers. this should be paired up with a GM watching low lvl zones to look out for script users who are levelling up toons.
Professions- Not rewarding because in order to make tons of AD, you don't actually PLAY the game. You just spam character creation and use the gateway.
Rough AD- Not rewarding because you can only refine 24k AD per day. This is laughable.
If your dungeons and crafting system aren't viable sources of income for players and aren't rewarding.... what's the incentive to play this game anymore?
Lol, simple things? Are you new to the computer age? Botting has been around since before Diablo 2, picking drops, complete runs, you name it a bot can do it. You've probably only met bottom of the barrel botters.
Also, if they couldn't make a profit they wouldn't be doing it.
Remember when we used to get blue drops? Remember when you got drops that you could use? Now it's just all green trash and enchants worth a thousandth of the RP needed to rank your enchants to the next level. Face it, the game is just not fun anymore.
I just want to know, are the people making the decisions truly trying to just put greed first and make everything funnel to the zen market or are they just ignorant of what players want and how to make an enjoyable experience.
They may be communicating more about what's happening but there is never any concise explanation as to why.
Bots already have guilds.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
If top management thinks the gateway is a bad idea, they should just say "Yeah, we don't want our game to be what the gateway has made it become, so we're removing X functionality from the gateway." This isn't about people cheating/not cheating, it's about what the developers and their bosses think makes for the game they want to be running.
It just may so happen that the hordes of players disagree with them. I LIKE NWO's heavily casual elements. I hate dungeons, and I avoid group content. Heck, I even kind of liked campaigns! But the thing I like the most is really just making and then selling shirts/pants/rings. !@#$ yeah professions!
Then another said that. Then another..
Rewarding playing T1/T2 dungeons (in which it would be difficult to bot) will be a positive thing for players and not botters.
It would also make players want to play the game more than as it stands now, with the pitiful rewards from dungeons.
I still feel like maybe refinement should be done away with entirely also in favor of a system that works like XP for artifacts/artifact gear - kill some mobs, get a small amount of XP for each artifact you have equipped. Ditto for quests, skirmishes, dungeons, PVP. Level up your artifacts by actually PLAYING.
I totally agree that gear should XP lvl not RP lvl, but then cryptic would have a hard time milking that. That's why they went the RP route, to milk the RP from Zen buyers.
That's what they mean about botters being a "problem for the economy", they don't mean game economy or AH economy, they mean cryptics wallet economy.
Botters are preserving their net value through alternate currencies like GMoP that cryptic is having a problem manipulating. Botters are like RL gold/silver hoarders. They buy things that have a bottlenecking effect to them or have intrensic value and buy/sell/hoard them.
The hoarders are just like real gold/silver hoarders, trying to weather the storm. The AD is manipulated by Cryptic, they want to avoid being revalued between each Mod.
The botters that are actually trading instead of hoarding are just trying to reach a higher tier of currency like rare AH items etc. rather than vendor items that Cryptic could still manipulate if with a bit more effort.
I agree with everything you said OP (cut for space). I remember when i first started playing this game in late beta, saw how they had set up the shop, and my gut immediately twisted. bad design. bad implementation. and then they created a means to set up automatic processes to gain the very currency that their game/shop depended on. They are literally giving people more incentive to NOT play the game then they are to play the game. and play it well.
and to top it off, there's very little in the shop that's interesting enough to get people to buy. The games been out for what, a year or two? and they still only have about a half dozen costumes in the shop (and horrid looking ones at that). I think that if they actually made a customization process that was half worth it (not some slap on global cover your character kinda thing), and added suits of customizable armor by the dozens in the cash shop, people would buy. I've been in a few MMO's that do this, and it works.
And they need to take the gear/rewards/progression out of the currency stream. I stopped playing the game when I first hit 60 because I could buy whatever i needed off the AH. That's it. no need to run the irritatingly designed instances at the time, as the only thing i needed higher gear for was those same instances. I bought it...and game was over for me. Crafting did very little that was rewarding, aside from the AD gain of course (and we are now seeing where that bad design has put them).
end game needs to be focused around progression that has to be played to achieve. everything of value should be Bind to Character, period. there can be some optional gear, but the important stuff you should have to play for, not pay for.
One of the best f2p models I've seen yet was Marvel heroes. nothing you could sell came from the cash shop (you can't really sell anything in that game anyways). all rewards that were relevant to your character were found BY YOU. cash shop items were either customization ONLY (like new hero costumes or pets), or they were temporary buffs that only helped you a bit (exp boost, increased item find, etc). the only game pertinent items that were in the shop that you couldn't get anywhere else was storage space...and even then they had in game specials where you could get a bit more.
And it worked great. I spent plenty in the shop, as they had plenty of cool stuff in there. bag space was they're only crutch...but honestly, I didn't mind paying for it in that game. It felt like i was giving back to the company for making a great game.
That's what I think Cryptic doesn't get. I don't feel like Im giving back...I feel like i have to squeeze and eek out every last AD i can out of this horribly designed system. you don't get people to buy more by forcing them into it. they usually just leave the game. You make the game fun enough that people WANT to play, and then make the stuff in the store interesting enough that they WANT to buy.
EDIT: quick note on bots. for people that are saying "bot's will find a way" yeah...if there's a reason for them to bot something, they will bot it. Other "smart" MMO' companies are figuring this stuff out (they did years ago, not sure why Cryptic is so slow to catch up), and they resolve it by REMOVING THE IMPORTANT GEAR FROM THE CASH SYSTEM. bind on character, bind on account. simple as that. gear should be Bind on Character (it's bound when you get it), and mods/gems/ upgradables should be Bind on Account.
when gear is BoC, it not only eliminates the bots who would otherwise grind for said gear to sell, but it also reduces ninja looting. if gear sells for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> silver at the vendor, and you can't put it up on the AH....people stop botting for it. When gear you buy at special vendors is bound to you the second it hits your bags, there's very little reason to spend more AD then you need to upgrade your stuff.
When upgradable's are BoA, then it opens possibilities to migrate stuff between your toons, but eliminates the need to farm them in droves, beyond what you need. then they adjust drop rates to take this into account, and reward higher tier play by dropping more of them.
This isn't rocket science. if you look at a dozen other MMO's that have done this well, it's pretty obvious what works and what doesn't. you don't get bot's to stop botting by closing down aspects of gameplay for players, you stop bot's by eliminating their market. if nothings sellable...nothings bottable.
But as I've made fun of earlier, I much would have preferred a Neverwinter Nights 3, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this. Plenty of people like to be able to just do their own things. And I totally understand if Cryptic/PWE/whomever doesn't want the game to appeal to those people. But you certainly can't expect such people to not complain about suggestions of making all content group content.