This demonstrates how any class can be "overpowered" if played right, but if you match all of those together, it ends up balanced. Notice how in the TR video, he doesn't just use CoS, he also uses GC and constantly moves around and uses his utility powers. That is how you play TR.
I personally know SpeedFlash. He's specifically recorded while he was lvl 60 because I told him at level 60 (not 61, not 62, but 60) the damage buff given to level 60 players who had decent module 5 gear was INSANE! He tested it out, loved it, recorded, make videos.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
edited July 2015
"If everyone in the world did the amount of recycling these developpers did, our earth would be saved." - joocycuzzzzzz
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
Ohh so now you get to pigeon hole rangers into a role of ranged only, when in this game they game us the ability to switch weapons for a reason? How do you get to decide these things? It's your job to promote this HR propaganda in order for the class to fulfill YOUR vision of how it should play?
Lots of folks want to play a melee ranger. Ideally, due to weapon swapping, the class might be thought of at it's best when doing a mix of ranged and melee.
And perma stun. I rarely see it. Several classes shrug off my roots altogether. And I think I ran into one HR ever that really rooted me hard, and that was not a stun. But I adapted.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
Ohh so now you get to pigeon hole rangers into a role of ranged only, when in this game they game us the ability to switch weapons for a reason? How do you get to decide these things? It's your job to promote this HR propaganda in order for the class to fulfill YOUR vision of how it should play?
Lots of folks want to play a melee ranger. Ideally, due to weapon swapping, the class might be thought of at it's best when doing a mix of ranged and melee.
And perma stun. I rarely see it. Several classes shrug off my roots altogether. And I think I ran into one HR ever that really rooted me hard, and that was not a stun. But I adapted.
Learn2Comprehend. At no point did I say "into a role of ranged only."
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
People here are so nice that no one reports to close this nerf thread in disguise yet.
You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
People here are so nice that no one reports to close this nerf thread in disguise yet.
You too?? Geez, Learn2Comprehend. I shouldn't have to spoon feed information to you guys. At no point did I use the word "ONLY."
______________________
"I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER."
Comprehension: HR's primary range damage - The Hunter RANGER primary weapon is bow & arrows. This weapon is a range base weapon. Although HR's have a bow & arrows, HR's can switch to their SECONDARY weapons daggers/knives/swords.
Get buffed - I'd like to see HR's range based attacks receive a decent, fair buff.
Help promote - If HR's receive a decent buff to some of their range based attacks, it would encourage more HR's to play, and play from a distance against actual/100% melee classes. Since their range damage will be good, it would make HR's WANT/DESIRE to snipe heavier geared classes, and use both range & melee on squishier classes. But of course, you guys will still need some sort of prone/stun attack to make things a bit easier. That's why I think Boar Charge damage and duration should be increased.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
No no no. It's our melee weapon damage that is pish-poor and needs considerable buffage. I wouldn't mind a buff to bow weapon damage too but its melee that needs more attention.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
No no no. It's our melee weapon damage that is pish-poor and needs considerable buffage. I wouldn't mind a buff to bow weapon damage too but its melee that needs more attention.
I mostly play melee HR. since mod 2. Not that I don't respect good archer folks but for me class was always about being fast and agile hit-run-hit style of play.
And yeah melee sucks badly now. No control, no dps, no suitability.
"I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER."
and we don't. HR as a class here is both stands. Not one. End of conversation.
Rest is for people with something else except 'wonna place you in what is want'
Was it smart to try to make classic 2 spec Ranger class in one ? nope.
Build styles are Archer ranger, Two-blade ranger, Beast Master with roles of primal striker / primal controller/scout etc.
Especially for folks who remember d&d 3.5 NN2 or even older - you had to separate primary(!) weapons based on your path - longbow archer or dual-longsword fighter. and as far as I remember those features could be gained even if you don't match requirements for stats etc.
Right now HR here need to have way to select primary weapon - bow or "axes/blades"
that will buff main weapon main damage by 40% or so.
This ideally should be class specs. Tab switch stays, you just get special bonus to either bow or blades similar to OP now - mostly for dps increase for one only.
In this case you could still have 3 class feet paths - archer/melee/trapper. Each one emphasis one aspect no matter what class spec you chose.
This could allow to see both all bow/blades in distant (current archer path)/ close(melee),control(trapper) combos.
Pathfinder & Stormwarden can be safely combined cause fact - working features from both will make one working combo instead of 2 broken and useless as it is now.
Will something like this big rework happen - not sure. But balancing and buffing HR base damage for melee has to be done for sure as well as rework of trash features and mechanics we have atm.
some people need to realize, HR's have 3 roles with the "trees" they have.. range, or melee, or a mix.. the trapper tree is mix, and the reason it is best, is because even dumping 100% into the range or melee tree does not make up for the MASSIVE loss in versatility of swapping between melee/range skills..
Also play an HR for awhile, and see what TRUE stun/root/mez/daze- lock or what ever you wanna call it is... we have ZERO escape skills, so against GF's or GWF's we get locked down often to the point of 100% to 0% health.. CW's same thing, and 2 HR(s) fighting is always fun..
[@gom8 said: some people need to realize, HR's have 3 roles with the "trees" they have.. range, or melee, or a mix.. the trapper tree is mix, and the reason it is best, is because even dumping 100% into the range or melee tree does not make up for the MASSIVE loss in versatility of swapping between melee/range skills..
Also play an HR for awhile, and see what TRUE stun/root/mez/daze- lock or what ever you wanna call it is... we have ZERO escape skills, so against GF's or GWF's we get locked down often to the point of 100% to 0% health.. CW's same thing, and 2 HR(s) fighting is always fun..]
agreed, always fun to watch trapper HR vs Trapper HR, especially 1 vs 1 :D
perma-dazeroot HR is good for 1 vs 1. they also good to be a support for the main nuker. they can very dangerous if nobody is CCing them, spamming daze to everybody with ease. unfortunately, all PvP matches are not 1 vs 1. just CC them and they'll die. they do have some escape skills such as marauders (dash far backwards) and fox cunning (negate damage of the next damage taken, ONLY the damage, not the CC), but once the enemy knows how the mechanics of that skill, they'll die. just CC them and kill them fast next time u meet a permadazeroot HR.
IMHO, permadazeroot HR were hated on 1 vs 1 because they're torturing their enemy, keeping them (the one who didnt have Heal, CC, or CC break) helpless for a long time (especially when HR's gear is still s*it). thats why some classes with one rotation KO to their enemy is better because they're giving some mercy by giving a fast way to die, lol :v
note: i rarely find a "perfect" perma daze HR that can daze their enemy all time. theres always a chance to counter it. so, take it or leave it, hahaha
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
note: i rarely find a "perfect" perma daze HR that can daze their enemy all time. theres always a chance to counter it.
so, take it or leave it, hahaha
My Combat HR has 25 Wis, Control Resist of almost 800 and Oghma's as active and I have encountered numerous Trappers that can lock me down indefinitely.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
note: i rarely find a "perfect" perma daze HR that can daze their enemy all time. theres always a chance to counter it.
so, take it or leave it, hahaha
My Combat HR has 25 Wis, Control Resist of almost 800 and Oghma's as active and I have encountered numerous Trappers that can lock me down indefinitely.
note: i rarely find a "perfect" perma daze HR that can daze their enemy all time. theres always a chance to counter it.
so, take it or leave it, hahaha
My Combat HR has 25 Wis, Control Resist of almost 800 and Oghma's as active and I have encountered numerous Trappers that can lock me down indefinitely.
_______________________
and what makes them different from his build?? i still say i can NOT perma lock down anyone, i dunno trappers can do it, because the 'control bonus' stat does NOT work on our daze OR our roots..
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
People here are so nice that no one reports to close this nerf thread in disguise yet.
You too?? Geez, Learn2Comprehend. I shouldn't have to spoon feed information to you guys. At no point did I use the word "ONLY."
Correct. But the intent was the same. Stop acting like a child.
______________________
"I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER."
Comprehension: HR's primary range damage - The Hunter RANGER primary weapon is bow & arrows. This weapon is a range base weapon. Although HR's have a bow & arrows, HR's can switch to their SECONDARY weapons daggers/knives/swords.
Wrong. A hunter ranger has no primary weapon. They are supposed to be equally strong with both weapons. Personally, I think for either a capstone feat/selectable class feature at level 10, they should be able to either get 25% more damage with bows, 25% more damage with blades, or 10% more damage with both. I'm leaning toward selectable class feature. Or just make it 3 different classes, as it should be.
Get buffed - I'd like to see HR's range based attacks receive a decent, fair buff.
But the problem is with melee weapons. Ranged rangers just need either more control or more escape. Melee just sucks right now, unfortunately.
Help promote - If HR's receive a decent buff to some of their range based attacks, it would encourage more HR's to play, and play from a distance against actual/100% melee classes. Since their range damage will be good, it would make HR's WANT/DESIRE to snipe heavier geared classes, and use both range & melee on squishier classes. But of course, you guys will still need some sort of prone/stun attack to make things a bit easier. That's why I think Boar Charge damage and duration should be increased.
Um, a ton of rangers don't want to snipe from ranged and play from a distance as you suggest. Melee has been popular for forever, but let's never forget how many hybrid builds were created even pre-Mod 4. Sometimes people would even skip out on a capstone because they didn't want to be tied down to one stance.
Overall, stop giving out your ideas about what should be done with rangers. In the end, we want what we want, not what you want. Seriously, I don't normally tell people this (I usually consider it rude), but go back to the GF forum. Get off our forum, because your nerf-thread and your pitifully inaccurate suggestions are not needed. Absolutely nobody wants you here.
Learn2Comprehend. At no point did I say "into a role of ranged only."
First, when you do a suggestion, do not use "Learn2" because it makes your sound like a superior to others, when you are not a dev, a mod or even HR players.
Secondly, what to "comprehend" here? A proposal always comes with numbers, explicit and solid ideas. People, who actually play HRs, do not come here to "guess" your random suggestion.
Thirdly, you do not even play the class, then how you know what exactly the class needs or not.
So please create a HR, play to lvl 70. When you have better idea of the class, we can discuss about what it really needs.
I know Antyboy since mod2, and he always complains about HRs. You will not have a reasonable conversation with him.
His butt just hurts from all the beatings he receives and has received… mainly because he sucks at playing a GF. But he thinks he is good and was never tired promoting himself as some sort of GF president… while most good players just roll their eyes about his posts and lack of knowledge.
But I like stomping him in pvp, and his tears kinda taste sweet I have to admit :-D
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
I know Antyboy since mod2, and he always complains about HRs. You will not have a reasonable conversation with him.
His butt just hurts from all the beatings he receives and has received… mainly because he sucks at playing a GF. But he thinks he is good and was never tired promoting himself as some sort of GF president… while most good players just roll their eyes about his posts and lack of knowledge.
But I like stomping him in pvp, and his tears kinda taste sweet I have to admit :-D
^ This! Mhmm yup! Ant's a mad man, even if he has PROOF; visual PROOF that HR's are busted lol. But I still wonder at times, who crazier here. The crazy guy? Or the crazy guy who calls the other guy crazy, when he himself is so crazy he doesn't realize he's crazy.
LOL!! I swear! The severity of your denial is AMAZING! Which makes me wonder, what if you're FULLY aware the HR class is busted, and you LIKE it, and your defending it because you LIKE. Which would explain the denial towards everything even after watching video evidence.
By the way, you never did tell me the results you got after asking "what do you guys think about perma stun HR's" in zone chat. But let's face it, you'd probably lie anyways.
Come on Ant, I know some people here are being a bit harsh on you, but it doesn't help with you giving them more reasons to.
There are so many, what people called as 'broken' mechanics in this game, if you serious want to play that game of "what do you guys think about perma stun HRs", then the same questions can be asked about unkillable OP, DCs with infinite AP, perma stealth/ITC TRs, or some other classes having 100k hits of encounters or dailies.
The perma daze from HRs could be tone down a bit, but if gets nerfed too much, then the class will be useless. Instead of asking for nerfs of other classes, perhaps try to look for a counter against what seems overpowered.
IMO, the only thing that needs to change is for Elven Battle to work properly against HR's roots, whether EB is overpowered or what is a different topic, but if it's a way to reduce the roots and dazes, then there is already a good solution against HRs.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
[quote="jaotut;12604097"] There are so many, what people called as 'broken' mechanics in this game, if you serious want to play that game of "what do you guys think about perma stun HRs", then the same questions can be asked about unkillable OP, DCs with infinite AP, perma stealth/ITC TRs, or some other classes having 100k hits of encounters or dailies.
The perma daze from HRs could be tone down a bit, but if gets nerfed too much, then the class will be useless. Instead of asking for nerfs of other classes, perhaps try to look for a counter against what seems overpowered. [/quote]
IMHO, perma stun HR is the easiest "overpowered" class to counter. its not like the can annihiate their enemies in second, cant be hit, or cant be CCed. it's just locking the enemy in one place. that why countering them is not as hard as the other broken class. too many immunity? meh. HR is one of the most easily CCed class IMHO.
overpowered? no. annoying? yes. very annoying? might be.
i've played permastun HR at PvP before. there's this immortal DC, which nobody on my team (including me) that can kill him, who cries "HR LOSER, F*** YOU" when i lock him down outside the cap point (2nd floor riverscar ruins) for 20-30 sec before his teammates realize and easily kill me. thats why i still fail to see how this permastun HR is "ruining" PvP as Ant say, while all of the other "broken" class easily counter and kill me.
"Theyre strong!" yes. "they can obtain this perma although their iL is still low!". yes. but theyre still the shi**iest "overpowered" class i've ever know. nerf that crushing roots too much and there will be no more trapper HR.
[quote="jaotut;12604097"] IMO, the only thing that needs to change is for Elven Battle to work properly against HR's roots, whether EB is overpowered or what is a different topic, but if it's a way to reduce the roots and dazes, then there is already a good solution against HRs. [/quote]
This :) did they already fix EB? i havent try them nowadays.
People are crying foul about T/P EB on PvP forum. So I guess it finally works.
Aside from the critical bug associated with TEB and Thorned Roots, TEB itself doesn't work against trappers because it's not the duration of the root that's freaking people off.
It's the association between all the rooting powers the trapper has + Crushing Roots + Trapper's Cunning + Disrupt Arrow, which hits with a micro daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze....you get the picture.
It's not the duration but the endless repetition of high-frequency micro-dazes that prevent any thing you try --and TEB doesn't protect you from this.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
EB right now is broken, and very bad against HR unless you can out heal the throne roots, I had an EB and ran from 1 node to another and still had throne roots ticks that killed me when I got to the other node by myself
At the start of mod 6, it was actually working fine against other HRs
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
Haha you guys make me laugh xD!! Anyways, let me make something clear. This is a not a crusade against HR's ONLY (as some people feel). GFs, TRs, DCs, GWFs all need some work. Just because I haven't made a thread about the other classes, does NOT mean I seem them perfect as in.
Also, "toning down" something is still considered a nerf. It's just a different word, however that word does not equal the severity of a nerf. As I said before, all class balances/adjustments should be made in SMALL doses. I have a video that I'm working on that discuss the current state of the game, which talks a bit about bugs and class balancing.
Haha you guys make me laugh xD!! Anyways, let me make something clear. This is a not a crusade against HR's ONLY (as some people feel). GFs, TRs, DCs, GWFs all need some work. Just because I haven't made a thread about the other classes, does NOT mean I seem them perfect as in.
Also, "toning down" something is still considered a nerf. It's just a different word, however that word does not equal the severity of a nerf. As I said before, all class balances/adjustments should be made in SMALL doses. I have a video that I'm working on that discuss the current state of the game, which talks a bit about bugs and class balancing.
Ant, aside from the mighty e-peen contest we've been seeing for the past few pages, being an "outsider" myself to the HR forums, I have to say I would agree with the "toning down" on grounds of principle, but it would still require some confirmation for the HR players that it is done on a "grand scale of things" where an intricate "web" of balance is all changed at the same time.
Yes, IMO, in terms of balance and gameplay Crushing Roots is one of the cheapest and PHAILest mistake for everyone else that's been made out as a victim of non-stop microdazing+rooting, which in some ways, are actually worse than long intervals of CCs.
But at the same time HRs generally suffered a long, long time lack of damage after the nerfs to Careful Attack and Piercing Blades -- which, btw, IMO, was a necessary change. I don't excuse one cheese for another.
Generally, my observation on the HRs, is that it is in a weird state -- or rather all ranged classes are in NW. In most other RPGs ranged classes (yes, I know some people are going to chime in and start that Rangers are hybrids) usually have many means to keep an enemy from closing, resorting to long-range kiting attacks. However, once the distance closes it becomes very hard to kite, and therefore the ranged classes falls under a serious problem.
In NW, its the opposite. Almost every class has major means of closing distance easily. Kiting someone from afar and trying to snipe things is almost impossible in this game. But weirdly enough, when the distance closes the HRs are capable of "close-range kiting" by just staying out of reach and constantly dodging attacks, switching to and fro between melee and ranged attacks.
The thing is this: why did it work before, but then why are the HRs in a bad state except the trappers?
Prior to the nerfs to PB and Combat tree, and to Careful Attack, the HR had means to deal either strong singular attacks within a limited time frame(PB), or keep an attack going that would constantly continue to take effect, so when you land an attack it keeps going, and you can conentrate in self-defense/additional attacks(CarefulA).
After those have been nerfed, as well as the loss of the (also correctly nerfed) PvP gear that effected Wilds Medicine, and the changes to lifesteal, the HRs are now stuck in a situation where it has to constantly dodge and maneuver to stay alive. IMO this is very possible still, so I don't see a problem with survivability, but the problem is that when you keep moving around in the defensive, you can't attack, therefore you can't deal any damage. This is especially evident when a class like your own, the GF barges in with a shield. Maybe some of the best HR players like Sandy or Deadshot or anyone else can lure out your attacks and make you drop the shield or hit from behind, but I know I can't do that, and I know probably for the average player this is something very difficult to achieve.
Once a class like yours barges in with all those lunges and prones, do the HRs have a way to distance itself? Really, a 15~18s recharge time on a gap-widener power that only puts you back 50'... this is hardly enough for most people, as well as even if you distance yourself you still aren't doing any real damage.
Like said, I'm a mediocre player, and when I face someone at similar odds, I can survive myself well enough... but ultimately, this is to no avail. I don't win any fights by just surviving it. Where's my damage?
IMO this is probably why HR players feel so strongly about the current "endless daze" meta.
I have a very strong suspicion that when the devs first made the HR, they actually had the very same line of reasoning as some newbie PvP players who think "oooh... HRs have practically 6 encounters! So that means each encounter has to do about 1/2 of damage of other classes encounters, or its not fair!"... but anyone who has serious dealt into HRs know this isn't true. In most cases I find the melee version of encounters barely satisfactory. They're not even damage really, most are utilities, and VERY weak at that, almost on the verge of being useless gimmicky.
IMO HRs need one or two potent CCs to be used, as well as a very potent and noticeable increase in damage. Particularly, HRs need (at least, if people build for it) strong and constant source of singular, burst damage that is strong enough to threaten any GF or GWF or Paly with much fewer hits, and they also need significant means to be able to land them.
At the same time Crushing Roots need to be removed, something needs to be done about those shields you GFs or Palys have, and preferably a debuff to be used against DCs... and of course these line of changes would probably cause a chain reaction of changes that would alter the relative balance of all classes with new needs and nerfs.
...
I mean, with a comparable gear level with the opponent, with 178% critical severity, one of the game's most powerful at-will attacks requiring very difficult timing, fired off with two manual-activated damage buffs + 2~3 more types of passive damage buffs... to the backside of a Paly that's got its shield down, causing a Combat Advantage with another 15% damage buff to apply ...and this, takes off only 20% of his HP, which he heals back in 2 seconds... and this is with an absolutely glass-cannon build that sacrifices everything else, for just damage.
I'm against stuff like Crushing Roots, but I do understand why HR players hold on to it so dearly. I'm not saying they should be allowed to keep on using that broken sheet, but the HRs need some love.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Eh...The thing is...yeah perma root is anoying, the dazes are anoying but like....GFs if you BLOCK and the HR does a mistake and gets infront of you blocking will end the root/dazes...and then dont spam bullcharge instanly bcs that would be just foolish, kite the HR into wasting dodges and then one rotate him...gosh...it aint hard, realy ;-;
(Read this next thing VERY carefully) - I DO NOT want HR's to suck, my goal is to get the imbalances fixed. Once fixed, I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER.
People here are so nice that no one reports to close this nerf thread in disguise yet.
You too?? Geez, Learn2Comprehend. I shouldn't have to spoon feed information to you guys. At no point did I use the word "ONLY."
______________________
"I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER."
Comprehension: HR's primary range damage - The Hunter RANGER primary weapon is bow & arrows. This weapon is a range base weapon. Although HR's have a bow & arrows, HR's can switch to their SECONDARY weapons daggers/knives/swords.
Get buffed - I'd like to see HR's range based attacks receive a decent, fair buff.
Help promote - If HR's receive a decent buff to some of their range based attacks, it would encourage more HR's to play, and play from a distance against actual/100% melee classes. Since their range damage will be good, it would make HR's WANT/DESIRE to snipe heavier geared classes, and use both range & melee on squishier classes. But of course, you guys will still need some sort of prone/stun attack to make things a bit easier. That's why I think Boar Charge damage and duration should be increased.
Btw criptics themselves said that HR isint a ranger #previewshard
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
Eh...The thing is...yeah perma root is anoying, the dazes are anoying but like....GFs if you BLOCK and the HR does a mistake and gets infront of you blocking will end the root/dazes...and then dont spam bullcharge instanly bcs that would be just foolish, kite the HR into wasting dodges and then one rotate him...gosh...it aint hard, realy ;-;
Easier said than done, because of the small window of time you have to counter attack. Which is apart of the main point that was stated earlier.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
@fatguns
"Btw criptics themselves said that HR isint a ranger"
Proof/resource or this never happened. Because after all "ranger" is in the class's NAME (Hunter RANGER).
Comments
I personally know SpeedFlash. He's specifically recorded while he was lvl 60 because I told him at level 60 (not 61, not 62, but 60) the damage buff given to level 60 players who had decent module 5 gear was INSANE! He tested it out, loved it, recorded, make videos.
LMFAO!!!!
Ohh so now you get to pigeon hole rangers into a role of ranged only, when in this game they game us the ability to switch weapons for a reason? How do you get to decide these things? It's your job to promote this HR propaganda in order for the class to fulfill YOUR vision of how it should play?
Lots of folks want to play a melee ranger. Ideally, due to weapon swapping, the class might be thought of at it's best when doing a mix of ranged and melee.
And perma stun. I rarely see it. Several classes shrug off my roots altogether. And I think I ran into one HR ever that really rooted me hard, and that was not a stun. But I adapted.
Learn2Comprehend. At no point did I say "into a role of ranged only."
You too?? Geez, Learn2Comprehend. I shouldn't have to spoon feed information to you guys. At no point did I use the word "ONLY."
______________________
"I want to see HR's PRIMARY range damage to get buffed to help promote their class role as the RANGER."
Comprehension:
HR's primary range damage - The Hunter RANGER primary weapon is bow & arrows. This weapon is a range base weapon. Although HR's have a bow & arrows, HR's can switch to their SECONDARY weapons daggers/knives/swords.
Get buffed - I'd like to see HR's range based attacks receive a decent, fair buff.
Help promote - If HR's receive a decent buff to some of their range based attacks, it would encourage more HR's to play, and play from a distance against actual/100% melee classes. Since their range damage will be good, it would make HR's WANT/DESIRE to snipe heavier geared classes, and use both range & melee on squishier classes. But of course, you guys will still need some sort of prone/stun attack to make things a bit easier. That's why I think Boar Charge damage and duration should be increased.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I mostly play melee HR. since mod 2. Not that I don't respect good archer folks but for me class was always about being fast and agile hit-run-hit style of play.
And yeah melee sucks badly now. No control, no dps, no suitability.
and we don't. HR as a class here is both stands. Not one. End of conversation.
Rest is for people with something else except 'wonna place you in what is want'
Was it smart to try to make classic 2 spec Ranger class in one ? nope.
Build styles are Archer ranger, Two-blade ranger, Beast Master with roles of primal striker / primal controller/scout etc.
Especially for folks who remember d&d 3.5 NN2 or even older - you had to separate primary(!) weapons based on your path - longbow archer or dual-longsword fighter. and as far as I remember those features could be gained even if you don't match requirements for stats etc.
Right now HR here need to have way to select primary weapon - bow or "axes/blades"
that will buff main weapon main damage by 40% or so.
This ideally should be class specs. Tab switch stays, you just get special bonus to either bow or blades similar to OP now - mostly for dps increase for one only.
In this case you could still have 3 class feet paths - archer/melee/trapper. Each one emphasis one aspect no matter what class spec you chose.
This could allow to see both all bow/blades in distant (current archer path)/ close(melee),control(trapper) combos.
Pathfinder & Stormwarden can be safely combined cause fact - working features from both will make one working combo instead of 2 broken and useless as it is now.
Will something like this big rework happen - not sure. But balancing and buffing HR base damage for melee has to be done for sure as well as rework of trash features and mechanics we have atm.
Also play an HR for awhile, and see what TRUE stun/root/mez/daze- lock or what ever you wanna call it is... we have ZERO escape skills, so against GF's or GWF's we get locked down often to the point of 100% to 0% health.. CW's same thing, and 2 HR(s) fighting is always fun..
some people need to realize, HR's have 3 roles with the "trees" they have.. range, or melee, or a mix.. the trapper tree is mix, and the reason it is best, is because even dumping 100% into the range or melee tree does not make up for the MASSIVE loss in versatility of swapping between melee/range skills..
Also play an HR for awhile, and see what TRUE stun/root/mez/daze- lock or what ever you wanna call it is... we have ZERO escape skills, so against GF's or GWF's we get locked down often to the point of 100% to 0% health.. CW's same thing, and 2 HR(s) fighting is always fun..]
agreed, always fun to watch trapper HR vs Trapper HR, especially 1 vs 1 :D
perma-dazeroot HR is good for 1 vs 1. they also good to be a support for the main nuker. they can very dangerous if nobody is CCing them, spamming daze to everybody with ease. unfortunately, all PvP matches are not 1 vs 1. just CC them and they'll die. they do have some escape skills such as marauders (dash far backwards) and fox cunning (negate damage of the next damage taken, ONLY the damage, not the CC), but once the enemy knows how the mechanics of that skill, they'll die. just CC them and kill them fast next time u meet a permadazeroot HR.
IMHO, permadazeroot HR were hated on 1 vs 1 because they're torturing their enemy, keeping them (the one who didnt have Heal, CC, or CC break) helpless for a long time (especially when HR's gear is still s*it). thats why some classes with one rotation KO to their enemy is better because they're giving some mercy by giving a fast way to die, lol :v
note: i rarely find a "perfect" perma daze HR that can daze their enemy all time. theres always a chance to counter it.
so, take it or leave it, hahaha
My Combat HR has 25 Wis, Control Resist of almost 800 and Oghma's as active and I have encountered numerous Trappers that can lock me down indefinitely.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
@nigoshinobi:
As you were saying...
Correct. But the intent was the same. Stop acting like a child.
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Wrong. A hunter ranger has no primary weapon. They are supposed to be equally strong with both weapons. Personally, I think for either a capstone feat/selectable class feature at level 10, they should be able to either get 25% more damage with bows, 25% more damage with blades, or 10% more damage with both. I'm leaning toward selectable class feature. Or just make it 3 different classes, as it should be.
But the problem is with melee weapons. Ranged rangers just need either more control or more escape. Melee just sucks right now, unfortunately.
Um, a ton of rangers don't want to snipe from ranged and play from a distance as you suggest. Melee has been popular for forever, but let's never forget how many hybrid builds were created even pre-Mod 4. Sometimes people would even skip out on a capstone because they didn't want to be tied down to one stance.
Overall, stop giving out your ideas about what should be done with rangers. In the end, we want what we want, not what you want. Seriously, I don't normally tell people this (I usually consider it rude), but go back to the GF forum. Get off our forum, because your nerf-thread and your pitifully inaccurate suggestions are not needed. Absolutely nobody wants you here.
First, when you do a suggestion, do not use "Learn2" because it makes your sound like a superior to others, when you are not a dev, a mod or even HR players.
Secondly, what to "comprehend" here? A proposal always comes with numbers, explicit and solid ideas. People, who actually play HRs, do not come here to "guess" your random suggestion.
Thirdly, you do not even play the class, then how you know what exactly the class needs or not.
So please create a HR, play to lvl 70. When you have better idea of the class, we can discuss about what it really needs.
I know Antyboy since mod2, and he always complains about HRs. You will not have a reasonable conversation with him.
His butt just hurts from all the beatings he receives and has received… mainly because he sucks at playing a GF. But he thinks he is good and was never tired promoting himself as some sort of GF president… while most good players just roll their eyes about his posts and lack of knowledge.
But I like stomping him in pvp, and his tears kinda taste sweet I have to admit :-D
^ This! Mhmm yup! Ant's a mad man, even if he has PROOF; visual PROOF that HR's are busted lol. But I still wonder at times, who crazier here. The crazy guy? Or the crazy guy who calls the other guy crazy, when he himself is so crazy he doesn't realize he's crazy.
LOL!! I swear! The severity of your denial is AMAZING! Which makes me wonder, what if you're FULLY aware the HR class is busted, and you LIKE it, and your defending it because you LIKE. Which would explain the denial towards everything even after watching video evidence.
By the way, you never did tell me the results you got after asking "what do you guys think about perma stun HR's" in zone chat. But let's face it, you'd probably lie anyways.
There are so many, what people called as 'broken' mechanics in this game, if you serious want to play that game of "what do you guys think about perma stun HRs", then the same questions can be asked about unkillable OP, DCs with infinite AP, perma stealth/ITC TRs, or some other classes having 100k hits of encounters or dailies.
The perma daze from HRs could be tone down a bit, but if gets nerfed too much, then the class will be useless. Instead of asking for nerfs of other classes, perhaps try to look for a counter against what seems overpowered.
IMO, the only thing that needs to change is for Elven Battle to work properly against HR's roots, whether EB is overpowered or what is a different topic, but if it's a way to reduce the roots and dazes, then there is already a good solution against HRs.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
There are so many, what people called as 'broken' mechanics in this game, if you serious want to play that game of "what do you guys think about perma stun HRs", then the same questions can be asked about unkillable OP, DCs with infinite AP, perma stealth/ITC TRs, or some other classes having 100k hits of encounters or dailies.
The perma daze from HRs could be tone down a bit, but if gets nerfed too much, then the class will be useless. Instead of asking for nerfs of other classes, perhaps try to look for a counter against what seems overpowered.
[/quote]
IMHO, perma stun HR is the easiest "overpowered" class to counter. its not like the can annihiate their enemies in second, cant be hit, or cant be CCed. it's just locking the enemy in one place. that why countering them is not as hard as the other broken class. too many immunity? meh. HR is one of the most easily CCed class IMHO.
overpowered? no. annoying? yes. very annoying? might be.
i've played permastun HR at PvP before. there's this immortal DC, which nobody on my team (including me) that can kill him, who cries "HR LOSER, F*** YOU" when i lock him down outside the cap point (2nd floor riverscar ruins) for 20-30 sec before his teammates realize and easily kill me. thats why i still fail to see how this permastun HR is "ruining" PvP as Ant say, while all of the other "broken" class easily counter and kill me.
"Theyre strong!" yes. "they can obtain this perma although their iL is still low!". yes. but theyre still the shi**iest "overpowered" class i've ever know. nerf that crushing roots too much and there will be no more trapper HR.
[quote="jaotut;12604097"]
IMO, the only thing that needs to change is for Elven Battle to work properly against HR's roots, whether EB is overpowered or what is a different topic, but if it's a way to reduce the roots and dazes, then there is already a good solution against HRs.
[/quote]
This :)
did they already fix EB? i havent try them nowadays.
People are crying foul about T/P EB on PvP forum. So I guess it finally works.
Aside from the critical bug associated with TEB and Thorned Roots, TEB itself doesn't work against trappers because it's not the duration of the root that's freaking people off.
It's the association between all the rooting powers the trapper has + Crushing Roots + Trapper's Cunning + Disrupt Arrow, which hits with a micro daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze after daze....you get the picture.
It's not the duration but the endless repetition of high-frequency micro-dazes that prevent any thing you try --and TEB doesn't protect you from this.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
At the start of mod 6, it was actually working fine against other HRs
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Also, "toning down" something is still considered a nerf. It's just a different word, however that word does not equal the severity of a nerf. As I said before, all class balances/adjustments should be made in SMALL doses. I have a video that I'm working on that discuss the current state of the game, which talks a bit about bugs and class balancing.
Ant, aside from the mighty e-peen contest we've been seeing for the past few pages, being an "outsider" myself to the HR forums, I have to say I would agree with the "toning down" on grounds of principle, but it would still require some confirmation for the HR players that it is done on a "grand scale of things" where an intricate "web" of balance is all changed at the same time.
Yes, IMO, in terms of balance and gameplay Crushing Roots is one of the cheapest and PHAILest mistake for everyone else that's been made out as a victim of non-stop microdazing+rooting, which in some ways, are actually worse than long intervals of CCs.
But at the same time HRs generally suffered a long, long time lack of damage after the nerfs to Careful Attack and Piercing Blades -- which, btw, IMO, was a necessary change. I don't excuse one cheese for another.
Generally, my observation on the HRs, is that it is in a weird state -- or rather all ranged classes are in NW. In most other RPGs ranged classes (yes, I know some people are going to chime in and start that Rangers are hybrids) usually have many means to keep an enemy from closing, resorting to long-range kiting attacks. However, once the distance closes it becomes very hard to kite, and therefore the ranged classes falls under a serious problem.
In NW, its the opposite. Almost every class has major means of closing distance easily. Kiting someone from afar and trying to snipe things is almost impossible in this game. But weirdly enough, when the distance closes the HRs are capable of "close-range kiting" by just staying out of reach and constantly dodging attacks, switching to and fro between melee and ranged attacks.
The thing is this: why did it work before, but then why are the HRs in a bad state except the trappers?
Prior to the nerfs to PB and Combat tree, and to Careful Attack, the HR had means to deal either strong singular attacks within a limited time frame(PB), or keep an attack going that would constantly continue to take effect, so when you land an attack it keeps going, and you can conentrate in self-defense/additional attacks(CarefulA).
After those have been nerfed, as well as the loss of the (also correctly nerfed) PvP gear that effected Wilds Medicine, and the changes to lifesteal, the HRs are now stuck in a situation where it has to constantly dodge and maneuver to stay alive. IMO this is very possible still, so I don't see a problem with survivability, but the problem is that when you keep moving around in the defensive, you can't attack, therefore you can't deal any damage. This is especially evident when a class like your own, the GF barges in with a shield. Maybe some of the best HR players like Sandy or Deadshot or anyone else can lure out your attacks and make you drop the shield or hit from behind, but I know I can't do that, and I know probably for the average player this is something very difficult to achieve.
Once a class like yours barges in with all those lunges and prones, do the HRs have a way to distance itself? Really, a 15~18s recharge time on a gap-widener power that only puts you back 50'... this is hardly enough for most people, as well as even if you distance yourself you still aren't doing any real damage.
Like said, I'm a mediocre player, and when I face someone at similar odds, I can survive myself well enough... but ultimately, this is to no avail. I don't win any fights by just surviving it. Where's my damage?
IMO this is probably why HR players feel so strongly about the current "endless daze" meta.
I have a very strong suspicion that when the devs first made the HR, they actually had the very same line of reasoning as some newbie PvP players who think "oooh... HRs have practically 6 encounters! So that means each encounter has to do about 1/2 of damage of other classes encounters, or its not fair!"... but anyone who has serious dealt into HRs know this isn't true. In most cases I find the melee version of encounters barely satisfactory. They're not even damage really, most are utilities, and VERY weak at that, almost on the verge of being useless gimmicky.
IMO HRs need one or two potent CCs to be used, as well as a very potent and noticeable increase in damage. Particularly, HRs need (at least, if people build for it) strong and constant source of singular, burst damage that is strong enough to threaten any GF or GWF or Paly with much fewer hits, and they also need significant means to be able to land them.
At the same time Crushing Roots need to be removed, something needs to be done about those shields you GFs or Palys have, and preferably a debuff to be used against DCs... and of course these line of changes would probably cause a chain reaction of changes that would alter the relative balance of all classes with new needs and nerfs.
...
I mean, with a comparable gear level with the opponent, with 178% critical severity, one of the game's most powerful at-will attacks requiring very difficult timing, fired off with two manual-activated damage buffs + 2~3 more types of passive damage buffs... to the backside of a Paly that's got its shield down, causing a Combat Advantage with another 15% damage buff to apply ...and this, takes off only 20% of his HP, which he heals back in 2 seconds... and this is with an absolutely glass-cannon build that sacrifices everything else, for just damage.
I'm against stuff like Crushing Roots, but I do understand why HR players hold on to it so dearly. I'm not saying they should be allowed to keep on using that broken sheet, but the HRs need some love.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Btw criptics themselves said that HR isint a ranger
Easier said than done, because of the small window of time you have to counter attack. Which is apart of the main point that was stated earlier.
"Btw criptics themselves said that HR isint a ranger"
Proof/resource or this never happened. Because after all "ranger" is in the class's NAME (Hunter RANGER).