The rogues are doing millions of damage in one proc hit in pve why?
because their armor piercing damage. per se, rogues always had already a high dps output. armor piercing damages deals extra damage based on their already high damage output, but ignores armor from mobs. In pvp, this same piercing damages ignores deflection, damage resistance from all enchantments, armor, and feats. This makes the class broken in both pve and pvp.
I was told this stuff was added on pve to balance out trs damage on pve. But I ran a dungeon the other day with 3 dps classes and a tr everyone made 3million dps damage, including me set up on dps build. the tr on our group made 25million. they really need to remove armor piercing out of the game.
Seriously, rogues as they currently are take the fun out of playing PVP. Classically in DND, the rogue is supposed to be a support role who has a great diversity of skill and does decent damage in specific situations. They're not supposed to be the the top damage dealers at all times. At every PVP level bracket, rogues top the match summaries in every game I've played. This should be addressed.
I think the dodge, stealth, knives, and even teleport strike are awesome features, but the stun/daze duration and insanely high burst damage needs to be significantly lowered. Either that, or just lower the stun/daze durations and increase everyone else's base life & base damage by about 30%.
someone posted on pvp discussion board. they have at least more than 40% of their population on the top 25 pages of the leaderboard. I would also say that the other classes well ranked are mostly because they are friends running with stack trs teams. so if it was not that, their numbers would be even higher.
I hope the devs aknowledge this topic soon and balance pvp. pvp is dying since leaderboards came out and no balanace with it. Come on, shadow opportunity, shadow of demise, and dazing were all nerfed on PC. we need balance on xbox too!!!
Stolen from Xbox One PvP Forum user nullvaluepoint:
As of Monday, July 6th 2015, the current first 25 pages of PvP Standings are as follows:
TR: 156
HR: 95
CW: 72
DC: 51
GF: 13
SW: 8
GWF: 5
Rogues alone make up 39% of the top 400 players. That's almost double the next top two! (HR and CW at 41.75%)
The class that Rogues constantly keep saying is well balanced is the GWF.... Want to guess why they think that? I would have done the K/D ratio, but data mining by hand is boring and time consuming. Hope the work is appreciated... at least by non-rogues.
Stolen from Xbox One PvP Forum user nullvaluepoint:
Rogues alone make up 39% of the top 400 players. That's almost double the next top two! (HR and CW at 41.75%)
The class that Rogues constantly keep saying is well balanced is the GWF.... Want to guess why they think that? I would have done the K/D ratio, but data mining by hand is boring and time consuming. Hope the work is appreciated... at least by non-rogues.
Your math and logic are off. 41.75% is not double 39%. Perhaps you meant it's almost double the 2nd class or it's almost as much as the next 2 classes. But double the next top 2 would mean 80%.
Also, just because a class is played more doesn't mean jack for balance. TRs are easy to play, easy to gear for and just easy to do well with, they are not the most damaging class though in PvE. I would give that to a CW or even a HR as their AOEs can easily rack up tons of damage that a single-target TR can't. I constantly outdamage my TR with my CW and come close with my HR. I would probably do better with the HR but that toon isn't as geared as the TR is. The big difference between the HR and the TR is that with the HR I'm constantly using encounters and hardly no at-wills. With the TR is just constant at-wills with an occassional encounter. CW just freezes everything and ROFL.
I did ePK the other night on my HR. Another HR was in the group and left after the first boss. He did 4million damage. It took me, a TR and a SW the rest of the dungeon to catch up to that mark with me coming out ahead by only a few thousand. If someone is getting outclassed 25m to 3m it's the gear and the skill, not the class.
Check out this thread made on pvp forum http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/559031/why-are-rogues-so-violently-overpowered-in-pvp
this thread was created on april 22. Today is 7/9/2015.
And our devs said they listen to us huh.... sorry the bad comment, but it is just true.
it has been months we have been dealing with a broken class. on PC shadow opportunity/shadow of demise/Impossible to catch, and the dazing durations were all nerfed to b ring balance to the game.
why haven't the devs worked on that here or at least acknowledged it as an issue. I feel like we are being ignored... for reals....
> 1. Lashing Blade: This ability does an insane amount of damage. What's worse is most PVE rogues don't even use it, it sees most use in PVP. When you get hit by it, you're dropped a significant portion of your health before the fight even starts. (affirmed) > > 2. Their roll is bugged: The window to evade an attack is much larger for rogues, so much so that they can actually avoid an attack that has already landed if they roll as soon as they see the effect. This also counts on the end of the roll, there appears to be an extended period after the roll for a few frames when they still avoid attacks. (affirmed) > > 3. Unhindered CC: Their Daze is not reduced in PVP like most other CC effects in the game. When playing against a Scoundrel rogue, you can literally be dazed the entire time and never have a chance to strike back. (affirmed) > > 4. Stealth Cancels Attacks: Much like an evasion roll, if a rogue goes into stealth as an attack lands, it negates the effects of the attack. (affirmed) > > 5. Perma-Stealth: This is just stupid. > > 6. Daggers from Stealth: Rogues can throw a certain number of daggers before stealth breaks, which means you can be taking damage before you can even see them. (affirmed) > > 7. Stealth Regeneration: Since Rogues regenerate stealth so rapidly, they almost always have the option to just run from combat and stealth. There should be more of a penalty for engaging in combat with another player. You should not be able to simply stab someone with lashing blade, daze them, then run away and wait for your cooldowns to reset. > This should be sticked could someone add these to bug list? The game has great success #1 free to play in xbox market, but I can see many people on my friends list no longer logging in the game in large part do to the unbalanced pvp. The ones I marked affirmed I have been able to reproduce several times in game.
Lesson; currently if you want to do well at PvP, start a TR, PvP spec it, and buy all your gear in the PvP store. Boom. If you like two maps of KOTH, you're all set up. That's just how it is right now; PvP be a TR.
Lesson; currently if you want to do well at PvP, start a TR, PvP spec it, and buy all your gear in the PvP store. Boom. If you like two maps of KOTH, you're all set up. That's just how it is right now; PvP be a TR.
and to be honest, a lot of people did that... know many friends quit their classes to roll a rogue. or that at least plays a rogue so they can pvp.
Should just add another playlist(social) option, that locks rogues out from joining. Course, 2 problems... Rogues would complain, simply because no one would join the normal domination(other then rogues, because most wouldn't join it). Second issue, people be complaining about another OP class/build... Second, isn't so bad cause alot more ways too get around those build compared too the rogues(until a fix).
This needs addressed a.s.a.p. scourge warlocks are so weak compared to all other classes thats its ridiculous. So much time and a little bit of money wasted on a pathetic class....
agree. currently the classes that most suffer from it are gwfs and warlocks because we dont have dodges. next it is GFs....
hope they fix it soon since it is fixed on pc... devs remember us please!
another clip of an "undergeared tr" hitting me almost 40k on daily on my GWF. and then shadow of demise leave me with 1% hp and then he just at will for the win. remember, this is a low level gear tr against a high lvl pvp built sentinel GWF...
now imagine an average tr can do against a fighter...
just to remember, i got at this moment 52,000 hp. 45% damage resistance, 40% deflection chance, 21% pvp damage resistance. yet it is nothing against trs thanks to shadow of demise and shadow strike piercing damage. please fix it on xbox too cryptic.
I got against a good tr today. he basically could hold a node against three people. me + 2 cws all of us geared and pvp spec. he was sab, and using smoke bomb and dazing strike would daze us forever.... shadow opportunity + spam shocking executioner due high AP gain ratio totally made the game totally frustrating. everytime I would finally stun him, he would release from it before i could even use the next encounter since TRs also have a higher CC resistance than other classes.
or when i would finally hit my daily, most of the time he would deflect it, (dont know why trs have 75% deflection severity when everyone else has 50%). it was very frustrating playing like this. not to mention that since he was a perma stealth build, his regen would heal him twice as much because they are consdiered to be out of combat when they are in stealth, which is dumb also. it feels like everything in the game right now benefit rogues thanks to their class features...
I find it hard to believe that a rogue could hold a node with a CW and any other class on it. Between SP and IT (along with OF if you're not on Rivenscar) you should be able to force the rogue off the node solo as a CW
I find it hard to believe that a rogue could hold a node with a CW and any other class on it. Between SP and IT (along with OF if you're not on Rivenscar) you should be able to force the rogue off the node solo as a CW
usually it is not a problem, but the things, the more geared a rogue is, the less like the other classes that could counter it can actually do it.
you can ask meanseason...
alysin chains was destroying me, his cw nerf me, and other guild mate cw all together. he was using smoke bomb, and was just untouchable. even though he was using saboteur build, the dazing from the feats, dazing strike, and smoke bomb + perma stealth basically, and throwing daggers and shocking executioning us every 20, 25 seconds was enough to deal with the three of us. of course, it was not the three of us all the time. but the two cws were dying for him, a gwf+cw was dying for him, everything we tried, all of us pvp spect. the thing is, any high lvl pvp tr can do it with some skills. Zaahh our gm can do it, skills can do it, twitch can do it...
I just don't think it is fair a single class, specially a ROGUE be able to tank and hold a node and be able to kill so fast at same time.
plus I think those TRs that are countered easily are the bad ones that spec into full DPS. they smash pugs or fighters for obvious reasons, but they are easy prey for cws/hrs etc. any TRs specing into survility, sab build, perma stealth with high hp and regen won't have problem with HR or CWs. the thing is, most console players still value DPS builds, and it is still a hell to fight trs like that. once more trs have the understanding that HP+regen is more effective on pvp than dps builds, then it will be a lot harder than it is now.
I don't think it makes sense the trs mechanics. They have feats that piercing damage resistance, tenacity, and deflection, make them killing machines against even tank classes like GFs and GWF, or healers, like DCs (thanks to shocking execution, shadow opportunity, shadow of demise).
Then they are the only class that really benefits from regen. when they are in stealth they are considered to be out of combat, so their regen works doubled as compared to us, making them heal back as perma stealth way too fast..
then add high deflection chance plus a higher deflection severity (still dont understand why they have 75% when everyone else has 50%, and before anyone mention that it is because they are supposed to evade attacks as being rogues, that would make sense if they didn't have close to 4 dodges rolls).
When I'm using a daily or encounter and the TR stealths, it uses my daily/encounter but the action is rendered null/cancelled. Yet, when I use a daily (GWF-Crescendo), the TR can still hit me and kill me during animation rendering it null....
When I'm using a daily or encounter and the TR stealths, it uses my daily/encounter but the action is rendered null/cancelled. Yet, when I use a daily (GWF-Crescendo), the TR can still hit me and kill me during animation rendering it null....
Doesn't seem right.
wow awesome. that is true. crescendo is supposed to give the GWF cc immunity for the duration of the skill. Yet, they still can daze us. (DCs can interrupt it with sun burst too).
alysin chains was destroying me, his cw nerf me, and other guild mate cw all together. he was using smoke bomb, and was just untouchable.
Having played both a TR and a CW, why are you getting in range of the smoke bomb to get dazed in the first place? CW has many control abilities that have a longer range than most TR abilities. If it's 2v1 in your favor there is no reason why the TR held out except bad plays which is highly likely since you kept getting hit by a PBAoE. If anything, 1 person acts as a decoy while the other stands far enough away to avoid the smoke bomb and just freezes the TR. After that just chain a few holds together and you get a dead TR.
But seriously, a CW whining about a TR? CWs wreck PvE. Freeze everything thing kill it, they have great survivability even more so than TRs and top the paingiver charts. Of course TRs have a few things that need to be addressed but it's not exclusively to them. Daze and stuns should be addressed everywhere. As a CW freeze someone, then a second later throw a force choke on them. When that wears off, push them away then start again.
From your first post and the other posts, you sound like you're outgeared and outplayed. 25m to 3m shows that. Only time I've had someone beat me like that on my CW is when they had double my gearscore and ran ahead to kill things before I got there. I have done that to others when they sit back and keep looting the green junk while me and the rest of the party does the fighting.
alysin chains was destroying me, his cw nerf me, and other guild mate cw all together. he was using smoke bomb, and was just untouchable.
Having played both a TR and a CW, why are you getting in range of the smoke bomb to get dazed in the first place? CW has many control abilities that have a longer range than most TR abilities. If it's 2v1 in your favor there is no reason why the TR held out except bad plays which is highly likely since you kept getting hit by a PBAoE. If anything, 1 person acts as a decoy while the other stands far enough away to avoid the smoke bomb and just freezes the TR. After that just chain a few holds together and you get a dead TR.
But seriously, a CW whining about a TR? CWs wreck PvE. Freeze everything thing kill it, they have great survivability even more so than TRs and top the paingiver charts. Of course TRs have a few things that need to be addressed but it's not exclusively to them. Daze and stuns should be addressed everywhere. As a CW freeze someone, then a second later throw a force choke on them. When that wears off, push them away then start again.
From your first post and the other posts, you sound like you're outgeared and outplayed. 25m to 3m shows that. Only time I've had someone beat me like that on my CW is when they had double my gearscore and ran ahead to kill things before I got there. I have done that to others when they sit back and keep looting the green junk while me and the rest of the party does the fighting.
I am a gwf, not a CW lmao. plus the pvp is domination, if you are worried about staying on range of a tr on a node you are not helping your team if that tr is capping or scoring on it.
The sad thing is.. If they do balance TRs.. Which I have my doubts.. The player base will drop dramatically. These kids will realize they are only average players playing a broken class. When the truth hits and they start getting owned, they'll move along.
I guess you don't know what a perma stealth is then.
I wish it was that easy. good luck trying to do that with geared rogues hehe. by the way, who are you in the game?
I welcome you to try doing that against any TR of my guild and see if you can kill them. you will be more than frustrated. Smash pugs or no skill and no geared trs is something super easy, specially those that add 23k hp and dps builds. Even I on my GWF, as a fighter can fight weak and no skill trs sometimes
Comments
because their armor piercing damage. per se, rogues always had already a high dps output. armor piercing damages deals extra damage based on their already high damage output, but ignores armor from mobs. In pvp, this same piercing damages ignores deflection, damage resistance from all enchantments, armor, and feats. This makes the class broken in both pve and pvp.
I was told this stuff was added on pve to balance out trs damage on pve. But I ran a dungeon the other day with 3 dps classes and a tr everyone made 3million dps damage, including me set up on dps build. the tr on our group made 25million. they really need to remove armor piercing out of the game.
DENIAL
I think the dodge, stealth, knives, and even teleport strike are awesome features, but the stun/daze duration and insanely high burst damage needs to be significantly lowered. Either that, or just lower the stun/daze durations and increase everyone else's base life & base damage by about 30%.
I hope the devs aknowledge this topic soon and balance pvp. pvp is dying since leaderboards came out and no balanace with it. Come on, shadow opportunity, shadow of demise, and dazing were all nerfed on PC. we need balance on xbox too!!!
DENIAL
As of Monday, July 6th 2015, the current first 25 pages of PvP Standings are as follows:
TR: 156
HR: 95
CW: 72
DC: 51
GF: 13
SW: 8
GWF: 5
Rogues alone make up 39% of the top 400 players. That's almost double the next top two! (HR and CW at 41.75%)
The class that Rogues constantly keep saying is well balanced is the GWF.... Want to guess why they think that? I would have done the K/D ratio, but data mining by hand is boring and time consuming. Hope the work is appreciated... at least by non-rogues.
-ASYLUM-
Your math and logic are off. 41.75% is not double 39%. Perhaps you meant it's almost double the 2nd class or it's almost as much as the next 2 classes. But double the next top 2 would mean 80%.
Also, just because a class is played more doesn't mean jack for balance. TRs are easy to play, easy to gear for and just easy to do well with, they are not the most damaging class though in PvE. I would give that to a CW or even a HR as their AOEs can easily rack up tons of damage that a single-target TR can't. I constantly outdamage my TR with my CW and come close with my HR. I would probably do better with the HR but that toon isn't as geared as the TR is. The big difference between the HR and the TR is that with the HR I'm constantly using encounters and hardly no at-wills. With the TR is just constant at-wills with an occassional encounter. CW just freezes everything and ROFL.
I did ePK the other night on my HR. Another HR was in the group and left after the first boss. He did 4million damage. It took me, a TR and a SW the rest of the dungeon to catch up to that mark with me coming out ahead by only a few thousand. If someone is getting outclassed 25m to 3m it's the gear and the skill, not the class.
this thread was created on april 22. Today is 7/9/2015.
And our devs said they listen to us huh.... sorry the bad comment, but it is just true.
it has been months we have been dealing with a broken class. on PC shadow opportunity/shadow of demise/Impossible to catch, and the dazing durations were all nerfed to b ring balance to the game.
why haven't the devs worked on that here or at least acknowledged it as an issue. I feel like we are being ignored... for reals....
DENIAL
>
> 2. Their roll is bugged: The window to evade an attack is much larger for rogues, so much so that they can actually avoid an attack that has already landed if they roll as soon as they see the effect. This also counts on the end of the roll, there appears to be an extended period after the roll for a few frames when they still avoid attacks. (affirmed)
>
> 3. Unhindered CC: Their Daze is not reduced in PVP like most other CC effects in the game. When playing against a Scoundrel rogue, you can literally be dazed the entire time and never have a chance to strike back. (affirmed)
>
> 4. Stealth Cancels Attacks: Much like an evasion roll, if a rogue goes into stealth as an attack lands, it negates the effects of the attack. (affirmed)
>
> 5. Perma-Stealth: This is just stupid.
>
> 6. Daggers from Stealth: Rogues can throw a certain number of daggers before stealth breaks, which means you can be taking damage before you can even see them. (affirmed)
>
> 7. Stealth Regeneration: Since Rogues regenerate stealth so rapidly, they almost always have the option to just run from combat and stealth. There should be more of a penalty for engaging in combat with another player. You should not be able to simply stab someone with lashing blade, daze them, then run away and wait for your cooldowns to reset.
>
This should be sticked could someone add these to bug list? The game has great success #1 free to play in xbox market, but I can see many people on my friends list no longer logging in the game in large part do to the unbalanced pvp. The ones I marked affirmed I have been able to reproduce several times in game.
DENIAL
agree. currently the classes that most suffer from it are gwfs and warlocks because we dont have dodges. next it is GFs....
hope they fix it soon since it is fixed on pc... devs remember us please!
DENIAL
now imagine an average tr can do against a fighter...
http://xboxclips.com/Gannicus1389/588d6962-d0a0-4c56-b676-d661bc65dcfc
just to remember, i got at this moment 52,000 hp. 45% damage resistance, 40% deflection chance, 21% pvp damage resistance. yet it is nothing against trs thanks to shadow of demise and shadow strike piercing damage. please fix it on xbox too cryptic.
DENIAL
or when i would finally hit my daily, most of the time he would deflect it, (dont know why trs have 75% deflection severity when everyone else has 50%). it was very frustrating playing like this. not to mention that since he was a perma stealth build, his regen would heal him twice as much because they are consdiered to be out of combat when they are in stealth, which is dumb also. it feels like everything in the game right now benefit rogues thanks to their class features...
DENIAL
Lykopis - GWF
Embrace the cashgrab
usually it is not a problem, but the things, the more geared a rogue is, the less like the other classes that could counter it can actually do it.
you can ask meanseason...
alysin chains was destroying me, his cw nerf me, and other guild mate cw all together. he was using smoke bomb, and was just untouchable. even though he was using saboteur build, the dazing from the feats, dazing strike, and smoke bomb + perma stealth basically, and throwing daggers and shocking executioning us every 20, 25 seconds was enough to deal with the three of us. of course, it was not the three of us all the time. but the two cws were dying for him, a gwf+cw was dying for him, everything we tried, all of us pvp spect. the thing is, any high lvl pvp tr can do it with some skills. Zaahh our gm can do it, skills can do it, twitch can do it...
I just don't think it is fair a single class, specially a ROGUE be able to tank and hold a node and be able to kill so fast at same time.
plus I think those TRs that are countered easily are the bad ones that spec into full DPS. they smash pugs or fighters for obvious reasons, but they are easy prey for cws/hrs etc. any TRs specing into survility, sab build, perma stealth with high hp and regen won't have problem with HR or CWs. the thing is, most console players still value DPS builds, and it is still a hell to fight trs like that. once more trs have the understanding that HP+regen is more effective on pvp than dps builds, then it will be a lot harder than it is now.
I don't think it makes sense the trs mechanics. They have feats that piercing damage resistance, tenacity, and deflection, make them killing machines against even tank classes like GFs and GWF, or healers, like DCs (thanks to shocking execution, shadow opportunity, shadow of demise).
Then they are the only class that really benefits from regen. when they are in stealth they are considered to be out of combat, so their regen works doubled as compared to us, making them heal back as perma stealth way too fast..
then add high deflection chance plus a higher deflection severity (still dont understand why they have 75% when everyone else has 50%, and before anyone mention that it is because they are supposed to evade attacks as being rogues, that would make sense if they didn't have close to 4 dodges rolls).
DENIAL
When I'm using a daily or encounter and the TR stealths, it uses my daily/encounter but the action is rendered null/cancelled. Yet, when I use a daily (GWF-Crescendo), the TR can still hit me and kill me during animation rendering it null....
Doesn't seem right.
wow awesome. that is true. crescendo is supposed to give the GWF cc immunity for the duration of the skill. Yet, they still can daze us. (DCs can interrupt it with sun burst too).
DENIAL
Having played both a TR and a CW, why are you getting in range of the smoke bomb to get dazed in the first place? CW has many control abilities that have a longer range than most TR abilities. If it's 2v1 in your favor there is no reason why the TR held out except bad plays which is highly likely since you kept getting hit by a PBAoE. If anything, 1 person acts as a decoy while the other stands far enough away to avoid the smoke bomb and just freezes the TR. After that just chain a few holds together and you get a dead TR.
But seriously, a CW whining about a TR? CWs wreck PvE. Freeze everything thing kill it, they have great survivability even more so than TRs and top the paingiver charts. Of course TRs have a few things that need to be addressed but it's not exclusively to them. Daze and stuns should be addressed everywhere. As a CW freeze someone, then a second later throw a force choke on them. When that wears off, push them away then start again.
From your first post and the other posts, you sound like you're outgeared and outplayed. 25m to 3m shows that. Only time I've had someone beat me like that on my CW is when they had double my gearscore and ran ahead to kill things before I got there. I have done that to others when they sit back and keep looting the green junk while me and the rest of the party does the fighting.
Scourge Warlock
I am a gwf, not a CW lmao. plus the pvp is domination, if you are worried about staying on range of a tr on a node you are not helping your team if that tr is capping or scoring on it.
DENIAL
That TR will be dead long before the node is capped and while they're there no one is getting points anyway.
I guess you don't know what a perma stealth is then.
DENIAL
DENIAL
I do and my point stands, all you have to do is drop an aoe to pull them out of stealth.
DENIAL