How can pve players say pvpers are toxic or crude when PvP players are routinely insulted directly and unprovoked by pve players???
To the op: why insult us? How about you take your opinion of PvP players and d&d and go **** yourself with them until you can learn how to make a suggestion without insulting an entire group of players while making it.
I dont even think its THAT hard to balance TBH....
I mean in the current game we have there really isnt anything that CANNOT be balanced between PVE and PVP.....
Look at TR for instance.
What is OP? CoS Spam... because of SO+LOL+FireWheel+Lurkers.
Do TRs CoS spam in PVe? NOPE.
So change SO to NON-piercing damage. The LOL set should MINIMALLY be changes to NOT be a "crit" proc 100% of the time (this will nerf damage a bit).
Then Fire Wheel ALSO needs to NOT be piercing damage.
None of that really affected PVE at all, but now PVP was more balanced.
Especially with Tenacity and healing depression there really is no need to have abilities seperate. You can tweak them.
Like for instance, HR piercing blades feat. REMOVE piercing damage, buff the % to 60% (up from 40%) now the HR does more damage in PVE (this was never a huge issue TBH to begin with) but now its balanced in PVP.
There literally (from what I know) has not been ONE time that I have said... Hmmm... Thats a tough one to balance PVE and PVP around.
The REAL ISSUE here is the DEVs dont know how to play their own game and dont listen to the players that say what to fix, what is OP, whats not WAI, what is a bad idea.
I am not saying listen to EVERYONE but they should listen to SOME. They dont know how to PVP, therefore cant accurately TEST pvp to see if its balanced or not.... Thus causes balance issues then causes nerfs then PVE players QQ.
You can't make a reasoned argument against an unreasonable demand. You don't get it. We are not supposed to be in their game. That is how they feel and there is no getting around it.
Let's do some d&d school. D&d at its heart is an intellegent antagonist (the DM). NW is not d&d. The only intellegent antagonist you find here is in PvP. Which they want to eliminate because it "has no place in d&d".
You want real d&d find a game with a DM. Never winter is not d&d it is an action combat mmo with the d&d label slapped on in the most superficial way.
All that needs to happen is a complete break between the way powers/feats/etc. operate in PvE and PvP. That is kind of implemented at the moment but it needs to be fully integrated into the game mechanics IMO. I play another MMORPG where this is the case and there is ZERO conflict between balancing classes in PvP and PvE as a result.
No Pve/PvP MMO has ever balanced PvP. Whatever you're smoking must be special.
No Pve/PvP MMO has ever balanced PvP. Whatever you're smoking must be special.
Yeah this is true. However this game would go a LONG way with more open communication between the DEVs and players. What is VERY frustrating is how close it is to "balanced" yet so far away because of just a few small tweaks with each class, powers, bugs, etc.
ONE of the issues that is a HUGE one are bugs.... Something not WAI, makes a class broken and it takes them half a mod or MORE to fix it (Knife's Edge anyone?).
ANOTHER issue is they just dont play PVP and dont understand how classes perform (SW anyone?)
These are things the PLAYERS can help with, however its clear they dont value or even take much from what the players even say. They stay super general (TRs are OP in PVP) then rather than look at WHY people say that, they just drop the nerf hammer WAY. TOO. HARD.
The class "advocate" thing wasnt a BAD idea, until this **** community threw a FIT about it because the players had a "special" position in advocating for the class.... So rather than use that system they changed to a "class reporter" role and then DIDNT EVEN USE THE INFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The GF advocate even quit halfway through saying not ONE of the issues or thoughts he brought up ever got mentioned).
These are why its not balanced. Its got nothing to do with PVP versus PVE. It has EVERYTHING to do with who is running the game (or NOT running it).
PvE is the essence of DnD I guess and it's obvious the devs are aiming at PvE in the first place, however....once something becomes overpowered for PvP, it's suddenly sky rockets on Auction House while the best PvE does not. *shruggs* Say whatever you want but PvPers must be the richest players out there : D
as ambisinisterr said PvP is already here in this way and will stay.
What could be a solution is a filter in the matchmaker, gathering similar geared/powered players to fight each others, so PvP will be more enjoyable as you won't be overkilled again and again and again just because you're not epic geared and 90% of your enemies are.
Filter the PvP quests (Icewind) to just flag people with ice gear or normal gear above some iLevel, so the battles in there will be more balanced. As I said before I already saw a player with full powered epic PvP configuration camping at Icewind Pass arena and killing all normal players trying to do the quest there.
Was thinking that maybe this company should go back to the roots of D&D and loose the PvP aspect of the game. I know a lot of people will cry about this but I could care less. D&D is not about PvP , PvP is just to placate the immature players. Any true old time D&D player know's this. Started playing D&D back in the 70's and game had only been out on the market a couple of years before I started playing. And never did PvP come into it. All I see PvP doing is making it harder to balance out the game. And if PvP'ers are not happy about it ,there are games out there that really have wicked good PvP in place.
Generally DnD is a co-op game, which means PVE- true.
PVP is a nice add-on actually and in line with the new age era. What makes actually most people skeptic of PVP is actually the fact, that it is badly implemented, bad matchmaking, bad class balances and no brackets, but if these things would actually be fixed, PVP would be tremendous fun, even for newcomers and old school DnD players- like myself too.
Game has got the best action combat out there, sadly it is a wasted gem, it's a stepchild, who was neglected for too long now and instead of Cryptic, now only whales and exploiters run it, but if these place would be cleaned out with an iron fist, it would be much more appealing to a wider audience.
I know this from my own example, i am a DnD veteran and i never played PVP in any game, had simply too much of 10 year old kids head shooting me, through walls with 3rd party program hacks.
Then i came to this game and in the early days i fell in love with the fast paced PVP.
If i must be honest, if i was a starter now and would enter Domination, i would also shy away and never look back on the battlefield.
When it comes to balance, it actually a tricky question. One is a programming work, the other a decision from game management.
PVE and PVP powers and skills could be programmed separately or some powers and skills could be enabled and disabled, when entering arena. This would be a work for the Devs.
The other is more appealing for us players, who love to see skill dominate, not money, is the method, they use in some other games, where no enchants and no artifacts decide over your fate in the arena, but your skills. Sadly NWO has lost track and with Mod 6 the power creep is even bigger, so that ELO system or brackets would be very needed, cause Domination is a desert now.
What troubles me personally is the Stronghold idea. Forcing players into PVP is a bad decision.
Let people decide if they want or if they don't want to take part in PVP, but forcing them...
Strongholds are a bad idea also, cause it will make little guilds and guilds with casuals instant victims to big and whale type PVP guilds.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Let's do some d&d school. D&d at its heart is an intellegent antagonist (the DM). NW is not d&d. The only intellegent antagonist you find here is in PvP. Which they want to eliminate because it "has no place in d&d".
You want real d&d find a game with a DM. Never winter is not d&d it is an action combat mmo with the d&d label slapped on in the most superficial way.
Sadly true, pictures are DnD, some lore too, but not all, good example is the latest Mod, which is actually Greyhawk.
But as implementation of DnD it would do fine, if there was only more coherence to DnD. This would actually need a rework in some classes too. My favorite example is the perma TR, i get the shivers, when i see a perma TR in a DnD labeled game.
It is also true, that in DnD a DM would never allow himself to make the players' goodies obsolete so often and a DM wouldn't have the luxury to make player classes so unbalanced, nor would the DM introduce 1 shot trash Mob into a fight against a Hero of Neverwinter and let him die by a joke of a skeleton.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Some full geared/boon players just camp next of the enemies campfire not alowing any of them to get out, overkilling them in the first step they take. Low geared PvPrs don't stand a chance, being killed like ants. Some better geared gets overwelmed by 3 or 4 of them and get killed in some blows.
It also makes the task to get a better PvP gear to go through new mod6 PvE content (because it turned into an option to survive in hard maps) almost impossible.
there should be a filter on the matchmaking. Some certain group of iLevel + number of PvP boons being grouped together, that would make the batles balanced making low geared fighting against low geared and high geared fighting against high geared.
Spot on!
The harsh environment, that came with Mod 6 makes the position of those, who have gathered their boons and AD in the early days of the game, much more easier.
The described power creep is insane, yes. I did gather all my gear for PVP on one of my toons, but lately i decided to reactivate my GF for PVP only and it is nearly impossible to do Domination or GG PVP now, one feels overwhelmed by the whales.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
You can't make a reasoned argument against an unreasonable demand. You don't get it. We are not supposed to be in their game. That is how they feel and there is no getting around it.
Since the post you quoted was in reply to one of my posts, maybe you could point to any 'unreasonable demand' I made?
It never ceases to amuse. Let's see. We have the No True Scotsman fallacy -- clearly no true D&D player could ever enjoy PvP. Then we have insults towards something they don't like and blatant hypocrisy: PvPers are "immature"; but they are clearly having BadWrongFun. The lack of historicity. Started playing D&D in the 70s? Then you'd probably be aware that D&D has its root in PvP miniatures games, and that Gygax' own high-level home campaigns tended to devolve into PvP activities of different types (players working against other players makes for a more dynamic game experience than just teamplay against a DM's creatur
As for PvP making it harder to balance out the rest of the game? This may be a valid complaint, but then that's also elegantly skipping over another point of departure from the pen-and-paper version: In no version of that did even the biggest, baddest boss monsters have hundreds of times as many hit points as the player characters. So if you take out that MMOism, then the entire game could be smoothly balanced around the same mechanics instead, and PvP gameplay would form a nice root for balancing around that.
But we're obviously not going to address how far "PvE" in this game is from traditional D&D PvE, are we? No, it's Someone Else's Fault.
I have sat at the table years ago with Gary Gygax multiple times. I have pictures and awards signed by him . And never 1 time ever, ever did PvP come to the table. The closest thing we did was bar fights ,but they were done with min. damage to each other. So yes I would argue this point seeing how I have first hand witnessed his play form. So if he had such a warm and fuzzy feeling on PvP in D&D he sure showed it when I was around. The last time I played at the table with him was in the late 90's I believe , I played a Thief/Mage and I won the round robin event we had, over 300 people there so winning was nice.
"What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
So yeah, that never works out. I suggest you get back to your pnp and leave mmos alone. You don't have what it takes to fully enjoy them anyways.
Sorry but what your referring to has nothing to do with this game. How can you even think they have anything to do with 1 or the other?I play another online game that's been going since the 90's ,and they have servers dedicated to PvP .Meaning the whole world there is open PvP , and there's no way to leave that world with that char. But I guess seeing how that game has only been running nonstop since 1998 that my idea would not work anyway. Just because another game can do it and make it work ,my bad for thinking this.
"What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
Sorry but what your referring to has nothing to do with this game. How can you even think they have anything to do with 1 or the other?I play another online game that's been going since the 90's ,and they have servers dedicated to PvP .Meaning the whole world there is open PvP , and there's no way to leave that world with that char. But I guess seeing how that game has only been running nonstop since 1998 that my idea would not work anyway. Just because another game can do it and make it work ,my bad.
We're talking about an example of human behavior. Or was apartheid run by aliens then?
And how are the PvP servers doing in that 90's game, huh? I've played on a handful of mmos that had PvP and PvE servers separated. PvP servers were the least populated and often got merged with PvE servers in the long run. Knowing that, how long would players on PvP server would have to wait to get into a dungeon/skirmish/whatever if your suggestion went trough, hm? PvE servers would suffer the same fate but to a lesser extent. Afterall, there are tons of pvp players that enjoy occasional pve and vice versa.
That in mind, your idea isn't thought out and is beyond stupid. You should be ashamed.
Was thinking that maybe this company should go back to the roots of D&D and loose the PvP aspect of the game. I know a lot of people will cry about this but I could care less. D&D is not about PvP , PvP is just to placate the immature players. Any true old time D&D player know's this. Started playing D&D back in the 70's and game had only been out on the market a couple of years before I started playing. And never did PvP come into it. All I see PvP doing is making it harder to balance out the game. And if PvP'ers are not happy about it ,there are games out there that really have wicked good PvP in place.
Where is the balance issue in this game on pve side?
Black Turtle TryhartzIV
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
I have sat at the table years ago with Gary Gygax multiple times. I have pictures and awards signed by him . And never 1 time ever, ever did PvP come to the table. The closest thing we did was bar fights ,but they were done with min. damage to each other. So yes I would argue this point seeing how I have first hand witnessed his play form. So if he had such a warm and fuzzy feeling on PvP in D&D he sure showed it when I was around. The last time I played at the table with him was in the late 90's I believe , I played a Thief/Mage and I won the round robin event we had, over 300 people there so winning was nice.
PvP instances are already well separated from the rest on the game. Don't feel like PvPing? Just don't queue.
While i like PVP very much, it is only cause of "old" memories in this game. This game has taught me to love PVP and is teaching me slowly to abandon it.
I fell in love nearly 2 years ago with the action combat system and the fast pace, but vere since that PVP has made a huge decline in the game.
First it was neglected by Devs for years now, then the all time disaster Mod 6 came and now it's at the point, that it is a pain in the neck for casuals or non exploiters.
Domination is empty, only some desperate people trying to get their gear, premades and exploiters.
GG PVP was a bit of a salvation for more than a month, but sadly it is getting to be a place of premades too, with a huge budget to finance their slaughtering needs. If you don't have a couple of grands you are lost there too.
What could save PVP from becoming only a playground of few whales is actually the ELO system or brackets, nothing more or less is enough.
More so, cause Cryptic will never accept a game style used by many other MMOs, where only your character gets transferred to a PVP arena, not your wallet aka. no enchants, no artifacts, no hocus pocus, just pure and simple skill.
Since we all know, this won't happen either ELO or those pretty simple brackets would be a nice first step in the right direction.
PVP now is a bad joke, not a bit well thought. Fresh players go there to get the gear, but with whales steamrolling over them and by standing at campfire, they will never get the gear. Twisted logic currently.
Other problem is, Mod 7 is a predictable failure too, cause it will force PVE players into PVP fights. Now imagine a casual and on the other hand small guild PVE player attack 24/7 by whale style PVP guilds. Terrible!
In this sense it's no wonder Gary Gygax never implemented it, but ok, this is a computer game, so no problem if it got PVP as an add-on, i like it too, but please for DnD's sake don't force people into fights.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
topics like this makes me want to have "open world"(in "" since theres nothing open about neverwinter maps) free for all pvp just so i could corpse camp and tbag whiners :P PvP is an important part of any mmorpg and should stay that way, why do ppl keep constantly whining about it ?
Paladin Master Race
0
bushman1414Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 18Arc User
topics like this makes me want to have "open world"(in "" since theres nothing open about neverwinter maps) free for all pvp just so i could corpse camp and tbag whiners :P PvP is an important part of any mmorpg and should stay that way, why do ppl keep constantly whining about it ?
Well, dont cry here, just go IWD where is your "open world PvP" -maps and enjoy rich player environment, but most players do IWD just because they want campaign completion not for PvP.
Separating PvP/Pve is good idea but it is difficult to complete, just different skill/boon/gear -sets, but then it will be douple grind, but that will not stops those who really like play.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
As for the OP: I agree that there is no place in D&D for PvP nonsense. Victory goes to the fattest wallet and/or use of exploits. There's no real "skill" involved, and anyone who says differently is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I've PvP'd (mainly in IWD to get quests done), and when my GWF is putting out 15k DPS and doing zero damage to someone, yeah.. that's horsesh*t. But whatever.
So, other than the occasional tryst into IWD's open-PvP area, I generally avoid it altogether. Why? Because it's not my thing.
Since the post you quoted was in reply to one of my posts, maybe you could point to any 'unreasonable demand' I made?
TIA.
It is not just you. I read a well reasoned post in a thread about PvP vs pve and reacted to the general pve players attitude towards PvP. Taking into account gross generalizations about character and the pure assumption that PvP just does not belong in nwo.
PvP players are flame broiled in this thread. That means there is no room for argument because the average pve attitude towards us is "get you and your filthy PvP outta my game". It is the kind of thinking that is anti " those people". Eg "those people are ruining the neighborhood..those people are ruining our game".
Unacceptable and entirely biased prejudice against an entire segment of the population.
As for the OP: I agree that there is no place in D&D for PvP nonsense. Victory goes to the fattest wallet and/or use of exploits. There's no real "skill" involved, and anyone who says differently is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I know right? Because you think it is true it must be true. Anyone who disagrees is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! Because you say so.
And ya you got to play DND with Gary gygax cause your cool like that. Cause you say so. You were in fact cooler than Gygax himself, who was a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Cause you say so.
ROFL...get real. Guys this is what I mean by attempts at at reason are futile.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
While i like PVP very much, it is only cause of "old" memories in this game. This game has taught me to love PVP and is teaching me slowly to abandon it.
I fell in love nearly 2 years ago with the action combat system and the fast pace, but vere since that PVP has made a huge decline in the game.
First it was neglected by Devs for years now, then the all time disaster Mod 6 came and now it's at the point, that it is a pain in the neck for casuals or non exploiters.
Domination is empty, only some desperate people trying to get their gear, premades and exploiters.
GG PVP was a bit of a salvation for more than a month, but sadly it is getting to be a place of premades too, with a huge budget to finance their slaughtering needs. If you don't have a couple of grands you are lost there too.
What could save PVP from becoming only a playground of few whales is actually the ELO system or brackets, nothing more or less is enough.
More so, cause Cryptic will never accept a game style used by many other MMOs, where only your character gets transferred to a PVP arena, not your wallet aka. no enchants, no artifacts, no hocus pocus, just pure and simple skill.
Since we all know, this won't happen either ELO or those pretty simple brackets would be a nice first step in the right direction.
PVP now is a bad joke, not a bit well thought. Fresh players go there to get the gear, but with whales steamrolling over them and by standing at campfire, they will never get the gear. Twisted logic currently.
Other problem is, Mod 7 is a predictable failure too, cause it will force PVE players into PVP fights. Now imagine a casual and on the other hand small guild PVE player attack 24/7 by whale style PVP guilds. Terrible!
In this sense it's no wonder Gary Gygax never implemented it, but ok, this is a computer game, so no problem if it got PVP as an add-on, i like it too, but please for DnD's sake don't force people into fights.
world is strange, i was like you, complaining about many things at pvp, now i am completely calm and enjoy pvp, even as archery hunter ranger. if you are weak maybe in half cases you will get roflstomped at gauntlgrym, but at half cases, you can have reasonable fight. i play elder scrolls too and since than my opinions changes a lot. In ESO, if you are weak, you are oneshoted, or roflstomped through CC to death instantly, almost by everyone or by huge zerg, without any chance to respond. if you are unexperienced and dont master animation cancelling, block casting, lagsploiting, you are at massive disadvantage. i really recommend everyone try eso pvp and you will see nwo pvp through completely different eyes and enjoy a lot more
Comments
To the op: why insult us? How about you take your opinion of PvP players and d&d and go **** yourself with them until you can learn how to make a suggestion without insulting an entire group of players while making it.
You can't make a reasoned argument against an unreasonable demand. You don't get it. We are not supposed to be in their game. That is how they feel and there is no getting around it.
Let's do some d&d school. D&d at its heart is an intellegent antagonist (the DM). NW is not d&d. The only intellegent antagonist you find here is in PvP. Which they want to eliminate because it "has no place in d&d".
You want real d&d find a game with a DM. Never winter is not d&d it is an action combat mmo with the d&d label slapped on in the most superficial way.
No Pve/PvP MMO has ever balanced PvP. Whatever you're smoking must be special.
Yeah this is true. However this game would go a LONG way with more open communication between the DEVs and players. What is VERY frustrating is how close it is to "balanced" yet so far away because of just a few small tweaks with each class, powers, bugs, etc.
ONE of the issues that is a HUGE one are bugs.... Something not WAI, makes a class broken and it takes them half a mod or MORE to fix it (Knife's Edge anyone?).
ANOTHER issue is they just dont play PVP and dont understand how classes perform (SW anyone?)
These are things the PLAYERS can help with, however its clear they dont value or even take much from what the players even say. They stay super general (TRs are OP in PVP) then rather than look at WHY people say that, they just drop the nerf hammer WAY. TOO. HARD.
The class "advocate" thing wasnt a BAD idea, until this **** community threw a FIT about it because the players had a "special" position in advocating for the class.... So rather than use that system they changed to a "class reporter" role and then DIDNT EVEN USE THE INFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The GF advocate even quit halfway through saying not ONE of the issues or thoughts he brought up ever got mentioned).
These are why its not balanced. Its got nothing to do with PVP versus PVE. It has EVERYTHING to do with who is running the game (or NOT running it).
WTB Class Reroll please
as ambisinisterr said PvP is already here in this way and will stay.
What could be a solution is a filter in the matchmaker, gathering similar geared/powered players to fight each others, so PvP will be more enjoyable as you won't be overkilled again and again and again just because you're not epic geared and 90% of your enemies are.
Filter the PvP quests (Icewind) to just flag people with ice gear or normal gear above some iLevel, so the battles in there will be more balanced. As I said before I already saw a player with full powered epic PvP configuration camping at Icewind Pass arena and killing all normal players trying to do the quest there.
Generally DnD is a co-op game, which means PVE- true.
PVP is a nice add-on actually and in line with the new age era. What makes actually most people skeptic of PVP is actually the fact, that it is badly implemented, bad matchmaking, bad class balances and no brackets, but if these things would actually be fixed, PVP would be tremendous fun, even for newcomers and old school DnD players- like myself too.
Game has got the best action combat out there, sadly it is a wasted gem, it's a stepchild, who was neglected for too long now and instead of Cryptic, now only whales and exploiters run it, but if these place would be cleaned out with an iron fist, it would be much more appealing to a wider audience.
I know this from my own example, i am a DnD veteran and i never played PVP in any game, had simply too much of 10 year old kids head shooting me, through walls with 3rd party program hacks.
Then i came to this game and in the early days i fell in love with the fast paced PVP.
If i must be honest, if i was a starter now and would enter Domination, i would also shy away and never look back on the battlefield.
When it comes to balance, it actually a tricky question. One is a programming work, the other a decision from game management.
PVE and PVP powers and skills could be programmed separately or some powers and skills could be enabled and disabled, when entering arena. This would be a work for the Devs.
The other is more appealing for us players, who love to see skill dominate, not money, is the method, they use in some other games, where no enchants and no artifacts decide over your fate in the arena, but your skills. Sadly NWO has lost track and with Mod 6 the power creep is even bigger, so that ELO system or brackets would be very needed, cause Domination is a desert now.
What troubles me personally is the Stronghold idea. Forcing players into PVP is a bad decision.
Let people decide if they want or if they don't want to take part in PVP, but forcing them...
Strongholds are a bad idea also, cause it will make little guilds and guilds with casuals instant victims to big and whale type PVP guilds.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Sadly true, pictures are DnD, some lore too, but not all, good example is the latest Mod, which is actually Greyhawk.
But as implementation of DnD it would do fine, if there was only more coherence to DnD. This would actually need a rework in some classes too. My favorite example is the perma TR, i get the shivers, when i see a perma TR in a DnD labeled game.
It is also true, that in DnD a DM would never allow himself to make the players' goodies obsolete so often and a DM wouldn't have the luxury to make player classes so unbalanced, nor would the DM introduce 1 shot trash Mob into a fight against a Hero of Neverwinter and let him die by a joke of a skeleton.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Spot on!
The harsh environment, that came with Mod 6 makes the position of those, who have gathered their boons and AD in the early days of the game, much more easier.
The described power creep is insane, yes. I did gather all my gear for PVP on one of my toons, but lately i decided to reactivate my GF for PVP only and it is nearly impossible to do Domination or GG PVP now, one feels overwhelmed by the whales.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
TIA.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have sat at the table years ago with Gary Gygax multiple times. I have pictures and awards signed by him . And never 1 time ever, ever did PvP come to the table. The closest thing we did was bar fights ,but they were done with min. damage to each other. So yes I would argue this point seeing how I have first hand witnessed his play form. So if he had such a warm and fuzzy feeling on PvP in D&D he sure showed it when I was around. The last time I played at the table with him was in the late 90's I believe , I played a Thief/Mage and I won the round robin event we had, over 300 people there so winning was nice.
The troll is you. I showed you a real life situation on what separation leads to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid
So yeah, that never works out. I suggest you get back to your pnp and leave mmos alone. You don't have what it takes to fully enjoy them anyways.
PvP instances are already well separated from the rest on the game. Don't feel like PvPing? Just don't queue.
And since it's never going to happen, the whole idea of banning PvP from the server is pointless.
We're talking about an example of human behavior. Or was apartheid run by aliens then?
And how are the PvP servers doing in that 90's game, huh? I've played on a handful of mmos that had PvP and PvE servers separated. PvP servers were the least populated and often got merged with PvE servers in the long run. Knowing that, how long would players on PvP server would have to wait to get into a dungeon/skirmish/whatever if your suggestion went trough, hm? PvE servers would suffer the same fate but to a lesser extent. Afterall, there are tons of pvp players that enjoy occasional pve and vice versa.
That in mind, your idea isn't thought out and is beyond stupid. You should be ashamed.
Where is the balance issue in this game on pve side?
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
That's just awesome. Playing with GG I mean.
While i like PVP very much, it is only cause of "old" memories in this game. This game has taught me to love PVP and is teaching me slowly to abandon it.
I fell in love nearly 2 years ago with the action combat system and the fast pace, but vere since that PVP has made a huge decline in the game.
First it was neglected by Devs for years now, then the all time disaster Mod 6 came and now it's at the point, that it is a pain in the neck for casuals or non exploiters.
Domination is empty, only some desperate people trying to get their gear, premades and exploiters.
GG PVP was a bit of a salvation for more than a month, but sadly it is getting to be a place of premades too, with a huge budget to finance their slaughtering needs. If you don't have a couple of grands you are lost there too.
What could save PVP from becoming only a playground of few whales is actually the ELO system or brackets, nothing more or less is enough.
More so, cause Cryptic will never accept a game style used by many other MMOs, where only your character gets transferred to a PVP arena, not your wallet aka. no enchants, no artifacts, no hocus pocus, just pure and simple skill.
Since we all know, this won't happen either ELO or those pretty simple brackets would be a nice first step in the right direction.
PVP now is a bad joke, not a bit well thought. Fresh players go there to get the gear, but with whales steamrolling over them and by standing at campfire, they will never get the gear. Twisted logic currently.
Other problem is, Mod 7 is a predictable failure too, cause it will force PVE players into PVP fights. Now imagine a casual and on the other hand small guild PVE player attack 24/7 by whale style PVP guilds. Terrible!
In this sense it's no wonder Gary Gygax never implemented it, but ok, this is a computer game, so no problem if it got PVP as an add-on, i like it too, but please for DnD's sake don't force people into fights.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Separating PvP/Pve is good idea but it is difficult to complete, just different skill/boon/gear -sets, but then it will be douple grind, but that will not stops those who really like play.
Not really. He was a jerk.
As for the OP: I agree that there is no place in D&D for PvP nonsense. Victory goes to the fattest wallet and/or use of exploits. There's no real "skill" involved, and anyone who says differently is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I've PvP'd (mainly in IWD to get quests done), and when my GWF is putting out 15k DPS and doing zero damage to someone, yeah.. that's horsesh*t. But whatever.
So, other than the occasional tryst into IWD's open-PvP area, I generally avoid it altogether. Why? Because it's not my thing.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
You are correct; I had skimmed the post.
In fact, you are entirely correct - if the powers are completely separated between aspects, then you would have no issues.
It is not just you. I read a well reasoned post in a thread about PvP vs pve and reacted to the general pve players attitude towards PvP. Taking into account gross generalizations about character and the pure assumption that PvP just does not belong in nwo.
PvP players are flame broiled in this thread. That means there is no room for argument because the average pve attitude towards us is "get you and your filthy PvP outta my game". It is the kind of thinking that is anti " those people". Eg "those people are ruining the neighborhood..those people are ruining our game".
Unacceptable and entirely biased prejudice against an entire segment of the population.
I know right? Because you think it is true it must be true. Anyone who disagrees is full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! Because you say so.
And ya you got to play DND with Gary gygax cause your cool like that. Cause you say so. You were in fact cooler than Gygax himself, who was a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Cause you say so.
ROFL...get real. Guys this is what I mean by attempts at at reason are futile.
world is strange, i was like you, complaining about many things at pvp, now i am completely calm and enjoy pvp, even as archery hunter ranger. if you are weak maybe in half cases you will get roflstomped at gauntlgrym, but at half cases, you can have reasonable fight. i play elder scrolls too and since than my opinions changes a lot. In ESO, if you are weak, you are oneshoted, or roflstomped through CC to death instantly, almost by everyone or by huge zerg, without any chance to respond. if you are unexperienced and dont master animation cancelling, block casting, lagsploiting, you are at massive disadvantage. i really recommend everyone try eso pvp and you will see nwo pvp through completely different eyes and enjoy a lot more