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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › Player Feedback (PC)

PvP vs PvE

dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
edited June 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
Was thinking that maybe this company should go back to the roots of D&D and loose the PvP aspect of the game. I know a lot of people will cry about this but I could care less. D&D is not about PvP , PvP is just to placate the immature players. Any true old time D&D player know's this. Started playing D&D back in the 70's and game had only been out on the market a couple of years before I started playing. And never did PvP come into it. All I see PvP doing is making it harder to balance out the game. And if PvP'ers are not happy about it ,there are games out there that really have wicked good PvP in place.
"What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
Post edited by dingoballz on
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Comments

  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    its not D&D its an mmorpg using D&D lore, and PvP is an important part of mmorpgs
    Paladin Master Race
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its not D&D its an mmorpg using D&D lore, and PvP is an important part of mmorpgs

    No it's marketed as a D&D game. That is why they have a contract to produce it. If it wasn't they would of just loosely used D&D idea's and came up with a new name. Neverwinter and Minsc and Boo are D&D .
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • iamannoyingdeviliamannoyingdevil Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I wouldn't count on pvp being removed , not only is pvp a HUGE part of the game on other servers such as Drider but the next module is partially focused on pvp . As for pvp making it difficult to balance the game I do agree with that , they should use a system like the original Guild wars where powers have different effects depending on where you are pvp or pve.
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    iamannoyingdevil wrote: »
    I wouldn't count on pvp being removed , not only is pvp a HUGE part of the game on other servers such as Drider but the next module is partially focused on pvp .

    ok then they should make a total PvP server where toons cannot leave ,then they could focus on fixing the rest of the game for those that want to just play. Plus I do not see what is the pull here for the PvP ? I tryed it and can say it sukz bad. To restrictive to be able to really enjoy it.But I play a real old online game where wizards have a spell book with 64 spells to choose from in PvP .So to me there's no fun here.
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • blag001blag001 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    We always see an avalanche of PvP whiners.... I can't kill that class, that class is over powered, please nerf that class...

    PvP in this game is so wrong! It should be a separate stuff from the PvE content, maybe with some interchangeable gear from each other, but not same characters!

    It should be diferent maps maybe called Arenas, with different versions of the classes from PvE... something like Battlefield Wizard, Gladiator, Holly Fighter...

    We don't need balance between PvP and PvE, what looks OP in PvP can easily not be OP in PvE. Some people complain about being easily killed in PvP by some classes, but people forget that those players are, maybe (99% of chance), full geared with epic PvP sets and have all the PvP boons... so, yes, you will die like a sneal in a pot of salt...

    If they want PvP above all so go play DoA or Guild Wars....
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Not different maps ,different severs all together. That way they can make a balance . You have a dedicated sever for PvP and players would build a PvP toon there and that's is where they could PvP. Now you would have a server that is only PvE and no transferring between the 2. Would now make it so much easier to balance the classes. But when you try to put the 2 together it makes untold problems arise.
    And the PvP server could just be open PvP and use the same world for both and players could go hunt each other while doing quest's. No "safe" areas . Just a world where you can kill/murder to your hearts content.
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dingoballz wrote: »
    No it's marketed as a D&D game. That is why they have a contract to produce it. If it wasn't they would of just loosely used D&D idea's and came up with a new name. Neverwinter and Minsc and Boo are D&D .

    they are part of lore and they have contract to use forgotten realms + some other lore to base their game of

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter
    Neverwinter is a free-to-play, action MMORPG based on the acclaimed Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game. Epic stories, action combat and classic roleplaying await those heroes courageous enough to enter the world of Neverwinter!
    Paladin Master Race
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think most all players feel and would say it's D&D, and sorry but they marketed it as D&D,there fore say whatever you want but it is a D&D game .
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Great, the PvExtremists are back at it.Why can't you ****ing accept that PvP is a part of the game?
  • blag001blag001 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    And the PvP itself is messed.

    Example, Gauntlgrym:

    Some full geared/boon players just camp next of the enemies campfire not alowing any of them to get out, overkilling them in the first step they take. Low geared PvPrs don't stand a chance, being killed like ants. Some better geared gets overwelmed by 3 or 4 of them and get killed in some blows.

    It also makes the task to get a better PvP gear to go through new mod6 PvE content (because it turned into an option to survive in hard maps) almost impossible.

    there should be a filter on the matchmaking. Some certain group of iLevel + number of PvP boons being grouped together, that would make the batles balanced making low geared fighting against low geared and high geared fighting against high geared.
  • alisi1alisi1 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Pvpers are most likely the biggest spenders as a whole in the game. So I don't see them getting rid of it. It would be nice if they just used different rules for pvp and pve so fixing one wouldn't constantly mess up the other.
  • blag001blag001 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    Great, the PvExtremists are back at it.Why can't you ****ing accept that PvP is a part of the game?

    So you're an "PvPxtremist"???

    Nobody is saying to bane PvP from the game. We're just saying that PvP is not the core of the game. PvP balance has nothing to do with PvE balance, it always ends in mistakes.

    The great PvP matches should be separated from the game and being another content with gears, boons, powers and no cross servers characters.

    Some PvP quests stay in the game, but with PvE powers. It's annoying when some full geared PvPr just camp at Icewind Pass killing mostly of the normal PvE geared player (there for the black ice quest) to get easy kills/victory or just to feel like a superman.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    blag001 wrote: »
    So you're an "PvPxtremist"???

    Nobody is saying to bane PvP from the game. We're just saying that PvP is not the core of the game. PvP balance has nothing to do with PvE balance, it always ends in mistakes.

    The great PvP matches should be separated from the game and being another content with gears, boons, powers and no cross servers characters.

    Some PvP quests stay in the game, but with PvE powers. It's annoying when some full geared PvPr just camp at Icewind Pass killing mostly of the normal PvE geared player (there for the black ice quest) to get easy kills/victory or just to feel like a superman.

    No, I'm not a PvPxtremist. You don't see me shouting around to remove PvE from the game, do you? In fact, none of the PvP players do.

    So who beat you so bad that you came here crying to remove PvP? There must be a reason for such nonsense.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    blag001 wrote: »
    Nobody is saying to bane PvP from the game. We're just saying that PvP is not the core of the game. PvP balance has nothing to do with PvE balance, it always ends in mistakes.

    ehm... /10char
    dingoballz wrote: »
    Was thinking that maybe this company should go back to the roots of D&D and loose the PvP aspect of the game. I know a lot of people will cry about this but I could care less. D&D is not about PvP , PvP is just to placate the immature players. Any true old time D&D player know's this. Started playing D&D back in the 70's and game had only been out on the market a couple of years before I started playing. And never did PvP come into it. All I see PvP doing is making it harder to balance out the game. And if PvP'ers are not happy about it ,there are games out there that really have wicked good PvP in place.
    Paladin Master Race
  • blag001blag001 Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    So who beat you so bad that you came here crying to remove PvP? There must be a reason for such nonsense.

    Did you read my post? Am I crying to remove PvP from the game? Again, I'm (and many others are) saying that PvP should be separated from PvE/game core.... your PvP will be there but will be another content.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    No, I'm not a PvPxtremist.
    So who beat you so bad that you came here crying to remove PvP? There must be a reason for such nonsense.

    ROFLMAO no one got beat any where that I'm aware of. My point was/is that by trying to balance PvP it seems to throw the rest of things out of wack. So having 2 different servers it would get rid of most balancing problems. Make both server the same only change what needs to be changed to make 1 PvP rule set . But PvP toons cannot be used on the PvE server, in the end separate them totally .
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • dingoballzdingoballz Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    ehm... /10char

    12 char's and do not PvP in this game
    "What is the sense of living the life you're given if all you ever do is stand in one place?" Lord Huron
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dingoballz wrote: »
    ROFLMAO no one got beat any where that I'm aware of. My point was/is that by trying to balance PvP it seems to throw the rest of things out of wack. So having 2 different servers it would get rid of most balancing problems. Make both server the same only change what needs to be changed to make 1 PvP rule set . But PvP toons cannot be used on the PvE server, in the end separate them totally .

    Yeah, separate em all is your answer, huh. How did that work out for South Africa?
  • ironknights1964ironknights1964 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    PvP and PvE never mix. Ever. When you try to balance one, you end up causing a sh!!-ton of problems on the other side.

    However, there is a simple change that can handle the PvE vs PvP "balancing." Qeueing for PvP should teleport you into a special instance (as it does) where several things happen:

    All skills are removed.
    Each class is given the exact same 3 encounters, 2 dailies and 2 class features.
    All other skills and boons are zeroed out.
    All gear should be identical for each class.

    This is as close to PvP balance as you can get (just the fact that you have more than one class means there never CAN be balance - it has never, ever been done in any MMO) without hurting PvE.

    Thus, the PvPers are happy (most would rather be acknowledged because they outskilled their pvp opponent, not lol-out-geared him.
    Thus also, PvEers are happy because once again PvP "balancing" did not ruin PvE.

    PvP skill-ups should be limited to 1/2 of 1% skill bonus to basic vanilla pvp skills. Or 1%. Who cares. Some small recognition for playing. Tokens can be earned to buy PvE gear, or a speed boost to your mount or... whatever.

    But otherwise, the never-ending whining from PvPers and PvEers over the "balancing" that ruins PvP or PvE will go on until the game is destroyed.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dingoballz wrote: »
    I think most all players feel and would say it's D&D, and sorry but they marketed it as D&D,there fore say whatever you want but it is a D&D game .

    Ye american pasta is pasta and pepsi is coca cola. Com on
    If this is dnd where is your pen and paper? Your dangeon master? Your daily daily? Is there action house in dnd? Refining?? A zen shop? Lag?
    The realm is dnd based and a way to have free advertising for both cryptic and wizard of the coast which does not care a bit about this being or not a dnd game. Did you ever see the other wizards of the coast games?? LoL
    Tomorrow i will start an online course and then say i got a phd
    There is no mmo without pvp, just accept it.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ironknights1964 wrote: »
    PvP and PvE never mix. Ever. When you try to balance one, you end up causing a sh!!-ton of problems on the other side.

    However, there is a simple change that can handle the PvE vs PvP "balancing." Qeueing for PvP should teleport you into a special instance (as it does) where several things happen:

    All skills are removed.
    Each class is given the exact same 3 encounters, 2 dailies and 2 class features.
    All other skills and boons are zeroed out.
    All gear should be identical for each class.

    This is as close to PvP balance as you can get (just the fact that you have more than one class means there never CAN be balance - it has never, ever been done in any MMO) without hurting PvE.

    Thus, the PvPers are happy (most would rather be acknowledged because they outskilled their pvp opponent, not lol-out-geared him.
    Thus also, PvEers are happy because once again PvP "balancing" did not ruin PvE.

    PvP skill-ups should be limited to 1/2 of 1% skill bonus to basic vanilla pvp skills. Or 1%. Who cares. Some small recognition for playing. Tokens can be earned to buy PvE gear, or a speed boost to your mount or... whatever.

    But otherwise, the never-ending whining from PvPers and PvEers over the "balancing" that ruins PvP or PvE will go on until the game is destroyed.
    Oh yeah? Why don't we do that to PvE too? I'm sure players will be glad to know it's their skill that allowed them to finish a lair. :rolleyes:

    /sarcazm off. No-one would be glad about such nonsense. This is mmorpg, not a shooter. I enjoy tinkering with my powers, feats, stats to find the most optimum build for my needs. This is why I enjoy RPGs. I'm sure everyone feels that way, were they into pvp or pve.
  • ironknights1964ironknights1964 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You never played WWIIOL then. That was pure balance and only player skill kept one alive. It was the best PvP game I've ever played.

    Skills and gear, all identical.

    But I can understand skill tinkering to find an advantage. Many players like to do that. Until the other side whines it isn't fair. That's why I don't PvP in these MMOs anymore. Pointless.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    blag001 wrote: »
    Did you read my post? Am I crying to remove PvP from the game? Again, I'm (and many others are) saying that PvP should be separated from PvE/game core.... your PvP will be there but will be another content.

    it shouldnt be separated, skill effects and some feats should work differently in pve and pvp(cc duration, skill damage vs players, smth they are doing atm)
    Paladin Master Race
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    This was the argument from day one.

    Sadly I do not see anything changing especially since it is already here. Personally I made the best of it and actually found the PvP fairly enjoyable but absolutely it is the biggest headache to balance and a monstrosity to moderate.

    But it is here to stay.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dingoballz wrote: »
    Was thinking that maybe this company should go back to the roots of D&D and loose the PvP aspect of the game. I know a lot of people will cry about this but I could care less. D&D is not about PvP , PvP is just to placate the immature players. Any true old time D&D player know's this. Started playing D&D back in the 70's and game had only been out on the market a couple of years before I started playing. And never did PvP come into it. All I see PvP doing is making it harder to balance out the game. And if PvP'ers are not happy about it ,there are games out there that really have wicked good PvP in place.

    You do realize that a LARGE LARGE LARGE % of their revenue comes from the Russian server... Which is nearly primarily PVP focused.....

    So your talking about cutting of the biggest % of their revenue..... Smart business move.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OK...

    1. PvP generates a pile of cash and no MMORPG will eliminate it. So forget that.
    2. Seperate servers will solve nothing as it's core game mechanics that are the issue. PvP servers are only required where server-wide open world PvP is a thing.

    All that needs to happen is a complete break between the way powers/feats/etc. operate in PvE and PvP. That is kind of implemented at the moment but it needs to be fully integrated into the game mechanics IMO. I play another MMORPG where this is the case and there is ZERO conflict between balancing classes in PvP and PvE as a result.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    twilightwatchman wrote: »
    OK...

    1. PvP generates a pile of cash and no MMORPG will eliminate it. So forget that.
    2. Seperate servers will solve nothing as it's core game mechanics that are the issue. PvP servers are only required where server-wide open world PvP is a thing.

    All that needs to happen is a complete break between the way powers/feats/etc. operate in PvE and PvP. That is kind of implemented at the moment but it needs to be fully integrated into the game mechanics IMO. I play another MMORPG where this is the case and there is ZERO conflict between balancing classes in PvP and PvE as a result.

    I dont even think its THAT hard to balance TBH....

    I mean in the current game we have there really isnt anything that CANNOT be balanced between PVE and PVP.....

    Look at TR for instance.

    What is OP? CoS Spam... because of SO+LOL+FireWheel+Lurkers.
    Do TRs CoS spam in PVe? NOPE.

    So change SO to NON-piercing damage. The LOL set should MINIMALLY be changes to NOT be a "crit" proc 100% of the time (this will nerf damage a bit).

    Then Fire Wheel ALSO needs to NOT be piercing damage.

    None of that really affected PVE at all, but now PVP was more balanced.

    Especially with Tenacity and healing depression there really is no need to have abilities seperate. You can tweak them.

    Like for instance, HR piercing blades feat. REMOVE piercing damage, buff the % to 60% (up from 40%) now the HR does more damage in PVE (this was never a huge issue TBH to begin with) but now its balanced in PVP.

    There literally (from what I know) has not been ONE time that I have said... Hmmm... Thats a tough one to balance PVE and PVP around.


    The REAL ISSUE here is the DEVs dont know how to play their own game and dont listen to the players that say what to fix, what is OP, whats not WAI, what is a bad idea.

    I am not saying listen to EVERYONE but they should listen to SOME. They dont know how to PVP, therefore cant accurately TEST pvp to see if its balanced or not.... Thus causes balance issues then causes nerfs then PVE players QQ.
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