deep gash got nerfed because of pve whiners they could not stand this that GWF could deal decent dmg with it(mostly CWs but thats another story) ,there was not a single complain about deep gash from pvp side cause the dot could be overwritten by simple atwill crit.
Are you kidding?
My main is a CW and I *loved* the Mod2 Deep Gash because it allowed my CW to do more controlling and less DPSing. CW would gather mobs with Sing/FI and then GWF would slay them all once they are all grouped together.
This CW is totally fine with other party members out-DPSing me, because it's not a DPS competition, it is a group effort to make it to the end of the dungeon and get the sweet loot.
And no one complains about it.
When a single class feature is able to overperform a whole other class while offering healing to the party and still medium to high control...there is a problem.
Deep Gash was nerfed due to TR's whine about it dealing 30%+ of GWF damage making them better single target damage dealers then TRs.
Ontopic. You're no allowed to discuss about CWs being too strong, wait till the thread gets locked. However, demand a nerf in one way, and you'll see a few buffs in another. Remember M4 CW nerfs.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
And no one complains about it.
When a single class feature is able to overperform a whole other class while offering healing to the party and still medium to high control...there is a problem.
Storm Spell does not offer healing, lol. You are talking about the Renegade capstone feat? It is a random unreliable heal. There is only a chance that it might proc at all, and then when it does proc, it is a 1/3 chance that you get Chaotic Growth. Nobody seriously takes a CW in the party expecting effective group heals.
Is your argument that no class except DCs and OPs and Temptation SWs should be allowed to have any healing abilities whatsoever? So we take away heals from GWF's Restoring Strike, GF's Crushing Surge, HR's Oak Skin as well as CW's Chaos Magic?
I also find it... interesting that people are complaining about the heals from CW's Chaos Magic, when it is a *capstone feat* that only one paragon path has access to, and on top of that, requires RNG in order to proc, when other DPS classes have the ability for group heals that are NOT based on feats or RNG and accessible to all members of that class... h mm I wonder why that is....
I also find it... interesting that people are complaining about the heals from CW's Chaos Magic, when it is a *capstone feat* that only one paragon path has access to, and on top of that, requires RNG in order to proc, when other DPS classes have the ability for group heals that are NOT based on feats or RNG and accessible to all members of that class... h mm I wonder why that is....
Such as?
(10 char)
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I also find it... interesting that people are complaining about the heals from CW's Chaos Magic, when it is a *capstone feat* that only one paragon path has access to, and on top of that, requires RNG in order to proc, when other DPS classes have the ability for group heals that are NOT based on feats or RNG and accessible to all members of that class... h mm I wonder why that is....
If you are comparing aok skin and restoring strike to the renegade capstone, this is another occasion where i just give up with you.
The whole 10 seconds oak skin healing heals for less than 5k
They got hit by a truck in mod 6, we lost over half of our DPS from my testing so far (absence of set bonus like accursed diabolist, nerfed Tyranical threat, Nerfed creeping death fury capstone).
You forget CWs will lose High Vizier, Shadow Weaver too.
Selfish self dps armor sets are gone indeed. However High Vizier/High Prophet/Knight Captain will be missed. These sets were really good to defeat Tiamat but I dunno we miss those self dps sets at all as party oriented members...
If you are comparing aok skin and restoring strike to the renegade capstone, this is another occasion where i just give up with you.
The whole 10 seconds oak skin healing heals for less than 5k
And time-averaged, that is probably what the CW Chaos Magic feat gives - for the *time that it is active* Chaotic Growth gives more healing, but it is not active most of the time.
If you are comparing aok skin and restoring strike to the renegade capstone, this is another occasion where i just give up with you.
The whole 10 seconds oak skin healing heals for less than 5k
My Oak Skin heals me for a bit more then 5k, and it affects party members only half as effective.
Restoring Strike is unreliable as you have to build stacks, score a crit and attack a debuffed target. Other way, it'll heal as good as Oak Skin but instantly and not affecting your party members at all.
Crushing Surge (lmfao) heals for a little bit over 800 IIRC.
And then you have the CW capstone which is 250% weapon damage every 0.5 second to yourself and allies which is roughly 2.5k weapon damage x 250% = roughly 6k x 20 because the buff lasts 10 seconds and procs 20 times.
We have 120k healing from a feat that procs automaticly and transfers to your group in AoE.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Mod 6 CW in it current state outperforms any class atm.
CW has:
Highest dmg ingame on top of that the damage is coming from passive procs that can crit also the class is secondary striker means the damage should not be on top.
CW can also buff and HEAL the party, the healing ability of a class thats not supposed to be healer should never make it to live.
Has highest DR ingame with tabbed shield yes a class that can dodge have best DR in mod 6 which gives them better survaviblity than a defender type class, even thou its a ranged type class so can deal huge dmg w,o much risk.
So pretty much mod 6 CW is all in one class and something has to be done about it, when you give one class ability of other classes you get serious balance issues.
This post is so ******ed i dont even know where to begin... Anyway if you want any1 to take you seriously provide some actually facts to back up your wild speculations...
Atm all i heard about mod 6 is, that we are forced to use shield on tab if we want to have any hope of surviving a hit from the mobs, and no CW's are not a ranged class, since all of the good encounters(steal time, ice terrain etc.) requires us to be in melee distance of the mobs, so yeah we need some kind of way to be able to survive since they destroyed lifesteal.
Not sure what kind of buffs you are talking about, if its HV that set is dead in mod 6, so no worries there. And yeah several people have already said that the renegade capstone heal is useless, and to be honest i trust them a lot more than some moron who is making yet another(how many of these have u made already??) nerf CW thread, if you honestly think we are that OP create a cw for yourself and stop pestering these boards with your feeble attacks on cw.
All of DC's encounters that heal, which are accessible even for DPS DC's (Righteous)
CW:
- top CC
- top tankiness
- top damage
- third best healing (assuming pally is better)
righteous DC:
- low CC
- medium tankiness (assuming we talk about PvE, where everyone but CW can be insta-killed with one attack)
- second best damage
- Chaotic Growth level healing
Pick one.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
When I do a DPS test on test dummies it is not very much like what happens in a real fight. On the live server I can do ~62k DPS to three test dummies with a Thaumaturge build. But when I'm running actual content my DPS is usually only around 30k. There are single targets situations where my DPS is low. Enemies die before the full force of my spells hits. I have to dodge and get stunned or proned other times. In short, in a "real" fight my DPS is nothing close to what it is on test dummies.
Furthermore, Module 6 has really put a crimp in the DPS-mage's style. You NEED more HP, which sends the High Vizier set to the scrap heap. That's -30% DPS. You also NEED to put shield on tab because it is just not possible to survive dungeons without it. That's -25% less encounter spells, which means another -25% DPS. Those two changes alone knock 40% of a CW's DPS right off the top.
Also enemies have become so dangerous that controlling them is the only way to keep your party alive. I've found myself using extremely low DPS spells like Entangling Force and slotting Orb Of Imposition. Those things further decrease my DPS to the point where TR's, GWF's, and HR's I run with easily dwarf my damage output.
CW's are moving in the direction of being capable of doing a lot of DPS but never really being able to use that capability because the situations demand they go in a different direction. These discussions about CW damage are really just academic. They're not really practical. There will be few (or at least a lot less) complaints about how much damage CW's do after Mod 6 launches.
And in case no one remembers CW's didn't want Storm Spell buffed this much. There was gobs of feedback that we didn't want to rely on skill-less procs for our damage output. But that was what the developers wanted. They rammed it down our throats. They took the base damage of our spells and ran them into the ground then gave us storm spell to bring our damage back up somewhat. What no one is talking about is that the base damage of spells like Icy Terrain is ~500 per tick with 13,000 power. Our spells have very little damage value of their own. They're only useful for what they proc. I don't really know anyone who likes the direction they took they class in Mod 4.
deep gash got nerfed because of pve whiners they could not stand this that GWF could deal decent dmg with it(mostly CWs but thats another story) ,there was not a single complain about deep gash from pvp side cause the dot could be overwritten by simple atwill crit.
You are talking about some class roles but seems fine with an offtank character had bigger dots than nowadays TT.
Btw deep gash was fixed because of its pvp performance and there was a miscalculation about the feat scaled with the initiator power and GWFs totally killed any other melee class from Pve market being best aoe, single target dmg and offtank. All-in-one.
And in case no one remembers CW's didn't want Storm Spell buffed this much. There was gobs of feedback that we didn't want to rely on skill-less procs for our damage output. But that was what the developers wanted. They rammed it down our throats. They took the base damage of our spells and ran them into the ground then gave us storm spell to bring our damage back up somewhat. What no one is talking about is that the base damage of spells like Icy Terrain is ~500 per tick with 13,000 power. Our spells have very little damage value of their own. They're only useful for what they proc. I don't really know anyone who likes the direction they took they class in Mod 4.
This so much this.... Nerf storm spell and bring back shard, and some other encounters who actually do some basic base damage!
Comments
Are you kidding?
My main is a CW and I *loved* the Mod2 Deep Gash because it allowed my CW to do more controlling and less DPSing. CW would gather mobs with Sing/FI and then GWF would slay them all once they are all grouped together.
This CW is totally fine with other party members out-DPSing me, because it's not a DPS competition, it is a group effort to make it to the end of the dungeon and get the sweet loot.
When a single class feature is able to overperform a whole other class while offering healing to the party and still medium to high control...there is a problem.
Ontopic. You're no allowed to discuss about CWs being too strong, wait till the thread gets locked. However, demand a nerf in one way, and you'll see a few buffs in another. Remember M4 CW nerfs.
Storm Spell does not offer healing, lol. You are talking about the Renegade capstone feat? It is a random unreliable heal. There is only a chance that it might proc at all, and then when it does proc, it is a 1/3 chance that you get Chaotic Growth. Nobody seriously takes a CW in the party expecting effective group heals.
Is your argument that no class except DCs and OPs and Temptation SWs should be allowed to have any healing abilities whatsoever? So we take away heals from GWF's Restoring Strike, GF's Crushing Surge, HR's Oak Skin as well as CW's Chaos Magic?
Such as?
(10 char)
If you are comparing aok skin and restoring strike to the renegade capstone, this is another occasion where i just give up with you.
The whole 10 seconds oak skin healing heals for less than 5k
You forget CWs will lose High Vizier, Shadow Weaver too.
Selfish self dps armor sets are gone indeed. However High Vizier/High Prophet/Knight Captain will be missed. These sets were really good to defeat Tiamat but I dunno we miss those self dps sets at all as party oriented members...
HR's Oak Skin
All of DC's encounters that heal, which are accessible even for DPS DC's (Righteous)
And time-averaged, that is probably what the CW Chaos Magic feat gives - for the *time that it is active* Chaotic Growth gives more healing, but it is not active most of the time.
What, you have never played with a DPS DC?
They can certainly outperform an equivalently geared CW. And yet they still have access to healing encounters.
Why don't I see cries of "nerf healing from DPS DC's"? Oh that's right because this whole thread is an anti-CW nerf thread
My Oak Skin heals me for a bit more then 5k, and it affects party members only half as effective.
Restoring Strike is unreliable as you have to build stacks, score a crit and attack a debuffed target. Other way, it'll heal as good as Oak Skin but instantly and not affecting your party members at all.
Crushing Surge (lmfao) heals for a little bit over 800 IIRC.
I'd rather have a 1/3 chance to heal for
This post is so ******ed i dont even know where to begin... Anyway if you want any1 to take you seriously provide some actually facts to back up your wild speculations...
Atm all i heard about mod 6 is, that we are forced to use shield on tab if we want to have any hope of surviving a hit from the mobs, and no CW's are not a ranged class, since all of the good encounters(steal time, ice terrain etc.) requires us to be in melee distance of the mobs, so yeah we need some kind of way to be able to survive since they destroyed lifesteal.
Not sure what kind of buffs you are talking about, if its HV that set is dead in mod 6, so no worries there. And yeah several people have already said that the renegade capstone heal is useless, and to be honest i trust them a lot more than some moron who is making yet another(how many of these have u made already??) nerf CW thread, if you honestly think we are that OP create a cw for yourself and stop pestering these boards with your feeble attacks on cw.
CW:
- top CC
- top tankiness
- top damage
- third best healing (assuming pally is better)
righteous DC:
- low CC
- medium tankiness (assuming we talk about PvE, where everyone but CW can be insta-killed with one attack)
- second best damage
- Chaotic Growth level healing
Pick one.
When I do a DPS test on test dummies it is not very much like what happens in a real fight. On the live server I can do ~62k DPS to three test dummies with a Thaumaturge build. But when I'm running actual content my DPS is usually only around 30k. There are single targets situations where my DPS is low. Enemies die before the full force of my spells hits. I have to dodge and get stunned or proned other times. In short, in a "real" fight my DPS is nothing close to what it is on test dummies.
Furthermore, Module 6 has really put a crimp in the DPS-mage's style. You NEED more HP, which sends the High Vizier set to the scrap heap. That's -30% DPS. You also NEED to put shield on tab because it is just not possible to survive dungeons without it. That's -25% less encounter spells, which means another -25% DPS. Those two changes alone knock 40% of a CW's DPS right off the top.
Also enemies have become so dangerous that controlling them is the only way to keep your party alive. I've found myself using extremely low DPS spells like Entangling Force and slotting Orb Of Imposition. Those things further decrease my DPS to the point where TR's, GWF's, and HR's I run with easily dwarf my damage output.
CW's are moving in the direction of being capable of doing a lot of DPS but never really being able to use that capability because the situations demand they go in a different direction. These discussions about CW damage are really just academic. They're not really practical. There will be few (or at least a lot less) complaints about how much damage CW's do after Mod 6 launches.
And in case no one remembers CW's didn't want Storm Spell buffed this much. There was gobs of feedback that we didn't want to rely on skill-less procs for our damage output. But that was what the developers wanted. They rammed it down our throats. They took the base damage of our spells and ran them into the ground then gave us storm spell to bring our damage back up somewhat. What no one is talking about is that the base damage of spells like Icy Terrain is ~500 per tick with 13,000 power. Our spells have very little damage value of their own. They're only useful for what they proc. I don't really know anyone who likes the direction they took they class in Mod 4.
You are talking about some class roles but seems fine with an offtank character had bigger dots than nowadays TT.
Btw deep gash was fixed because of its pvp performance and there was a miscalculation about the feat scaled with the initiator power and GWFs totally killed any other melee class from Pve market being best aoe, single target dmg and offtank. All-in-one.
This so much this.... Nerf storm spell and bring back shard, and some other encounters who actually do some basic base damage!