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New players and PvP

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  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    How are new players supposed to get into PvP these days? As you're leveling it seems really fun and then you hit 60 and all of a sudden you get one-shotted constantly and can't out-damage your opponent's regen, let alone their lifesteal. How do you deal with that as a new player? Is PvP just not something new players can participate in anymore?

    I've wanted to participate in neverwinter PvP since I first start playing because the combat system is awesome, but with the complete lack of balance at the endgame the only way I can do that is to keep leveling new toons and participating in the lower, more balanced brackets. Is there anything I can do here? Any advice from people who've been there before on how to farm all that honor for the good PvP gear without just getting constantly ROFLstomped? It's very frustrating. I ended up giving up before I even had enough honor for one piece of the profound set, forget the whole thing.

    pre-mode6

    #1. Gear up. Do not even think about going into pvp at level 60 without wearing all level 60 gear that is at least blue. Stuff is super cheap on the ah.

    #2. Roll a tr. I mean this in all seriousness. The class has offensive and defensive capabilities unmatched by any other class. To the extent that these capabilities compensate for a lack of both skill and gs. Play the class while you learn the other classes by fighting against them.

    #3. Play solid domination. ESPECIALLY on TR. You will win matches almost singlehandedly against much higher GS opponents by playing solid domination on a tr. This does not mean you will win every fight. What it means is that you will consistently cause your team to have a higher number of teamates on nodes than the enemy. Because you will be fighting 2-4 of them on the enemies own node most of the time.

    There you have it! Have fun.
  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    norlesh wrote: »
    this game will be unplayable after mod 6. you'll see "looking for 25+k gs player for x dungeon" on chat screen. pvp still sucks and after mod 6, gap between players will be enormous, new players will be insulted cause of their gears when they enter pvp arena. many will leave and find another game including me.destroying a game is making old gears obsolete (including 3 months old artifact gears,so sorry for bis players orange gears :) . it is a free to play game but transforms pay to play and win.

    You and those who still mentioned gs in Module 6 forgot there would be no gs soon. LFG will be quite confusing since item levels don't quite represent the OPness of the player as the levels of gear are assigned by the developers and they are still moving them up and down in the Preview shard. I think It is going to give the false impression to the 15k gs players that they are quite close to the 25k gs players, but in reality the 25k gs players still mop the floor with them even if the new item level systems show they are not that far apart.
  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    healary wrote: »
    You and those who still mentioned gs in Module 6 forgot there would be no gs soon. LFG will be quite confusing since item levels don't quite represent the OPness of the player as the levels of gear are assigned by the developers and they are still moving them up and down in the Preview shard. I think It is going to give the false impression to the 15k gs players that they are quite close to the 25k gs players, but in reality the 25k gs players still mop the floor with them even if the new item level systems show they are not that far apart.

    Makes me wonder if they are simply trying to do away with any general indication of character power so people do not complain as much about poor matchmaking in pvp lol.
  • noetic2noetic2 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Being new to on-line gaming, I find the snobbery amusing. A lot of guys living out some pretty infantile comic book fantasies. The worst thing about PvP is not the "pug" or "newbie," but the guy monologuing like some (ego) tripped out super-villain, and screaming obscenities in your ear because nobody is listening to his sage advice. 90% of the time when my team loses it's because we are outgeared. And most of the stupidity I see, I blame on players chasing after kills or glory points instead of focusing on the win.
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    When you're a TR, the impacts of newbie teammates are far less engripping. You can lonewolf as you like. When you're something else, the difference in skill level between yourself and your lesser teammates usually makes you the target of gang-ups... like being the only one standing the ground on a crucial node as all the other teammates run off to god knows where makes me the gang-bang victim... or having your ranged teammates doing that FPS thing behind LOS or standing on top of pillars makes you the only one trying to take the node, which then makes you the natural target of focus fire... etc etc.. :D [/color]

    Sure, TR is the best designed for Domination and overall in this game design, so you are able to carry teams on your back, even less good ones.

    I for myself have nowadays more deaths, cause i try to compensate with my toons the weakness of some utterly under geared or bad players on my team.

    That's why we would need either no leader board and then no tensions, who is where, who has exploited the leader board more or a solo leader board, which would show your performance, not that one of broken matchmaking or bad team mates.

    Other good catch from you guys is the fact, that the matchmaking was designed only until about mid range. Sure the differences are here small and current system can handle this, where above 15k GS the difference between two players gets huge, like a 15K or a 25K. A 12k or a 15k may have very similar gear, only exception maybe a few mid ranged enchants or another artifacts in blue or so, where as a 15k and a 25k is a mile away. Uber gear, everything in orange and rank 9 or 10s.

    Another good point is, that if we get item levels instead of GS, the huge difference will be the same- more so with the introduction of rank 12s-, only difference it will be harder to see. This is no improvement, matchmaking will be the same broken thing it is now, only a nice color put on it, but it won't make the Opel a Ferrari.
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Enchants etc. now add up to the item level, so my CW, all legendary, R9/10s had suddenly an item level of 1800, while before it was something like 70.

    This will not be the end, I am sure, but you will see 'lfg IL 200+ instead of lfg 20k+ GS.

    As for PvP, item level 65 meets item level 250+ premade, 25k HP meets 100k HP, 600 base weapon damage meets 1200 base weapon damage, 14000 power meets 6000 power, wait one of the premade has a terror, 3500 power, there is a transcendend plf, 2000 power... you see where this is going. At last the PuG has high def stats, wtf -30% DR, -40% DR... .
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • xxxgriessonxxxxxxgriessonxxx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    @schietindebux: "more like a ****** than a customer atm"

    Just picture the PTW guy who chose to main the OP GWF back in mod2, spent months and dollars to see his BIS toon getting 1-2 shotted by 2 week old TRs with R5 enchants the entire mod5. Nothing shows better what this game is about. New and old players which are here for PvP should reflect before this picture.
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  • xxxgriessonxxxxxxgriessonxxx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I've been 1-2 shotting 45k Hp GWFs with a 10k exe with gvorp both before and after the 20% nerf to SE, but wether is 1 or 2 hits or a long long time(that only if the BIS GWF has poor build and lacks skill xsayajinx1, but even than i hardly see it happening honestly) and wether is a 10k or a 16k exe is besides the point... Do i have to literally start drawing here to explain such obvious things?

    What happened to this GWF is what will eventually happen to the ppl who chose to main TR in mod5, you saw how OP it is, invested some money to get it to a relevant level fast and in time you'll see it nerfed and lose its OPness.

    vector-of-a-excited-cartoon-male-fish-rushing-towards-a-female-worm-on-a-hook-by-lafftoon-43936.jpg
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Nonsense.If you are a BiS GWF, IN MOD 5, losing to anything in rank 5s, you and your build need to back to the drawing board.
    @morenthar as i pvp enough to have an impression of GWF: few OP scilled player but.. the average player gets beaten by my 17 DC and if i stay and ply long enough by my 16,2k Warlock , sure not everytime but i allways know when meeting a GWF 20-22k GS its about 50:50, so these guys do have my sympathy going pvp getting beaten by lots of classes 1:1
  • xxxgriessonxxxxxxgriessonxxx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    xsayajinx1 wrote: »
    Would like to see some evidence (video) how 10k TR can 1 shot BiS gwf (24-26k). Please show me that I'm wrong.

    OK its 2 shots, 25k crit with SE+30k crit with LB=55k+22.5k SOD=77.5K, roughly, i do not own the exe anymore, but im sure i didnt miss for 32.5k. Happy?
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  • svekoljsvekolj Member Posts: 65
    edited February 2015
    xsayajinx1 wrote: »
    .

    I'm speaking about PvP speccd builds btw, no BiS pve PuGs with 20k+ HP 500 deflect/tenacity!

    Ok, I'm going to be offtopic but I really have to ask.
    What's a pug- as in what is it short for where does it come from? people in game seem to use it as a replacement for **** or I may be misreading things.

    Also, why does everybody say toon instead of character?
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    svekolj wrote: »
    Ok, I'm going to be offtopic but I really have to ask.
    What's a pug- as in what is it short for where does it come from? people in game seem to use it as a replacement for **** or I may be misreading things.

    Also, why does everybody say toon instead of character?

    Pickup Group; used commonly in WoW and other MMORPGs. Basically means a group that isn't formed by people you know; instead, it's formed up of random, possible noobs that will completely wreck whatever experience you are getting the group for.
  • svekoljsvekolj Member Posts: 65
    edited February 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    Pickup Group; used commonly in WoW and other MMORPGs. Basically means a group that isn't formed by people you know; instead, it's formed up of random, possible noobs that will completely wreck whatever experience you are getting the group for.

    oh, ok, thanks for clarification
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  • mirrorballsmirrorballs Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2015
    xsayajinx1 wrote: »
    Nope, not happy at all, I've never seen any BiS gwf taken a 30k Lashing Blade in an 1v1 situation against a 10k TR, if the gwf stack tenacity and deflect (and BiS ones do!) you can't deal such damage without tons of debuffs on him.

    I'm playing currently sab TR as alt and before executioner with 5k power and 2,3k armpen + G.vorpal. I can deal such amounts of damage to low till middle geared classes but to BiS ones? No way...

    I'm speaking about PvP speccd builds btw, no BiS pve PuGs with 20k+ HP 500 deflect/tenacity!

    Still waiting for video proof.

    I'll probably have to consult a few people and look up a few posts, but my guess is that the amount gear/enchants required to pump up the power on a 10k GS TR to dish out a LB shot that lands for 30k on a BiS GWF, would most probably make it impossible for the TR to remain at 10k.

    As a matter of fact even my LB doesn't hit for that high and I'm at 20k GS with 6.5k power. It hits for anywhere around 18~20k depending on what build the GWF is. Granted I'm not an executioner, and I don't use FS. To exploit the bug to cause multiple SoD procs, the current incarnations of executioner builds don't even use Vorpal any more, so their burst capacity does take a big hit -- which is then overcompensated by the broken bug-abusing. Without the multi-proc bug exploit, even the modern Executioners don't hit that hard.

    Of course, there's a possibility it may be one of those PvErs that have like 24k GS and yet only 28k HP or something like that. In the current standards, a 45k GWF with BiS level gear cannot be considered a real PvPer since the HP is way too low.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited February 2015

    ......As a matter of fact even my LB doesn't hit for that high and I'm at 20k GS with 6.5k power. It hits for anywhere around 18~20k depending on what build the GWF is. ....

    Answer:

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Immortal deals 40398 (65222) Physical Damage to you with Lashing Blade.

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Valar_Morghulis deals 30449 (51496) Physical Damage to you with Lashing Blade.

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Valar_Morghulis deals 28896 (48805) Physical Damage to you with Lashing Blade.

    The highest i have seen is 51k true damage LB the unmitigated one was 68k.I did not kept the log cause nowadays these are common knowledge.The logs i posted i kept it in the early days of mod5 whan i tried to prove them.
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  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Imageupload failed .Image shack failed .Changed to jpg failed.Give me some time :)

    http://postimg.org/image/wz6fc6rxz/
    http://postimg.org/image/dimuvse87/

    are visible?do you have access to the links?if not tell me so
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  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    My toon is as tanky as any GWf would be.(except in unstop).

    i have ~ 50% DR(57,5% really effective with hidden feat) ,and 25% tenacity.yet my log shows 40k lashing blade hits.

    So there is no point if i am bis or not.The point was-and i responded-that such numbers are imaginary.
    (post by mirrorballs).
    He claimed that 20k gs Tr cannot hit more than 20k lashing blade.

    I just proved otherwise...
  • mirrorballsmirrorballs Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2015
    My toon is as tanky as any GWf would be.(except in unstop).

    i have ~ 50% DR(57,5% really effective with hidden feat) ,and 25% tenacity.yet my log shows 40k lashing blade hits.

    So there is no point if i am bis or not.The point was-and i responded-that such numbers are imaginary.
    (post by mirrorballs).
    He claimed that 20k gs Tr cannot hit more than 20k lashing blade.

    I just proved otherwise...

    Without providing any context of the fight. Existence of debuffs? Buffs? Of course, left out. Conveninetly, so, yes? :rolleyes: But then again the very point you've "proved", was also an arbitrary excerpt from a single sentence from the entire paragraph of context which again, you casually chose to remove.

    But I remember you now. You're the guy who trolled the boards a few months back yelling TRs do 150k damage within 10 seconds, which turned out to be you quoting premitigated damage values of a fight that actually took 15 seconds -- not 10 -- where you took only like 20k damage.

    Twisting and pulling stuff out of its context must be such an exciting career. Peace out ;)
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jnmlvn wrote: »
    Since there is now such a HUGE gear score gap between veteran players and new players, it would be wise if the devs created a separated queue system for PvPs based on gear scores like what they do for dungeons and skirmishes.

    You could have the 15k and lower GS players have a separate queue from players with 16k+ and above GS. That way the low GS players can have the time to properly catch up and increase their GS without having their PvP death:kills or wins:losses ratio stats all screwed up.

    This is clear and reasonable logic which I whole-heartedly agree with. Perhaps even a different level with new level 60's (<10k GS). Surely coding this would be a simple enough event.

    The only problem I could think of are people taking off enchantments to fit in the 'lower bracket', or unequipping items to enter, and then equipping once in PvP. Perhaps the system should then 'lock out' armor/enchant changes in PvP.

    I am tired of getting my proverbial a#@ handed on a plate by 20k+ GS players as a 15k GS player myself, and don't find it fun at all when I dominate <10k GS players. Once domination is clear, I lose all interest in trying to bump up my 'kill score'.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Originally Posted by grumblesmorf

    Is PvP just not something new players can participate in anymore?


    You're giving too much power to those in bis gear. Forget them! Nobody gets to tell you what you can or can not do in a freakin' MMORPG. And Im saying this as a player of a 24k PVP GWF. The game puts 10k guys and 20k guys together so like the saying goes dont hate the player..

    My suggestion is go and play as much PVP as you can/want. If someone gives you a hard time for being low GS ignore him. If someone decides to quit the match because you are on his team, that is his own right, dont take it personally. Look for your own fun, forget the rest.
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • grumblesmorfgrumblesmorf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    emilemo wrote: »
    Originally Posted by grumblesmorf

    Is PvP just not something new players can participate in anymore?


    You're giving too much power to those in bis gear. Forget them! Nobody gets to tell you what you can or can not do in a freakin' MMORPG. And Im saying this as a player of a 24k PVP GWF. The game puts 10k guys and 20k guys together so like the saying goes dont hate the player..

    My suggestion is go and play as much PVP as you can/want. If someone gives you a hard time for being low GS ignore him. If someone decides to quit the match because you are on his team, that is his own right, dont take it personally. Look for your own fun, forget the rest.

    I don't know if you understand the complaint really. See my issue isn't that BiS players are trolling me about my GS. It's not that I feel like I'm not allowed to PvP. My issue is that I feel like the devs don't care at all about newer players and that the PvP experience for them, for me, is completely frustrating. When you're a new player and thus have a lower gear score, lower stats, you get one-shot all the time by all those higher geared players that the game throws you in with. And I'm not just talking about rogues. Practically anyone with 10k more GS than you can do this to you. Maybe it takes two instead, but either way you never stood a chance. This isn't fun, nor is it fair. I play PvP as much as I want, sure, which is not at all anymore, because it truly just isn't fair at all. Until they put a system in place to actually balance teams or actually create brackets, ANYTHING to introduce some sense of fairness and balance to the game, why would I play? Why would anyone for that matter? Is it fun to be a 20k whale and kill someone with a couple of at-wills? Is it fun to be on the other end of that? I just don't get the appeal of Neverwinter PvP at all anymore. Are you all actually somehow getting into matches that aren't one-sided for a few minutes before it turns into spawn camping while most of the team just sits by the fire?

    This thread is absolutely depressing. The answer to my question was basically "you're screwed." No wait, one guy did recommend that I roll a rogue. Nice.
  • koalazebra1koalazebra1 Member Posts: 1,173 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2015

    This thread is absolutely depressing. The answer to my question was basically "you're screwed." No wait, one guy did recommend that I roll a rogue. Nice.

    rogue or bust.
  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I face the same condition 3 month before with 11k GS
    now i already have 20k GS HR
    you just need to give some effort and know how to make AD from leadership and AH
    don't hate the player hate the game
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