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New players and PvP
grumblesmorf
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
How are new players supposed to get into PvP these days? As you're leveling it seems really fun and then you hit 60 and all of a sudden you get one-shotted constantly and can't out-damage your opponent's regen, let alone their lifesteal. How do you deal with that as a new player? Is PvP just not something new players can participate in anymore?
I've wanted to participate in neverwinter PvP since I first start playing because the combat system is awesome, but with the complete lack of balance at the endgame the only way I can do that is to keep leveling new toons and participating in the lower, more balanced brackets. Is there anything I can do here? Any advice from people who've been there before on how to farm all that honor for the good PvP gear without just getting constantly ROFLstomped? It's very frustrating. I ended up giving up before I even had enough honor for one piece of the profound set, forget the whole thing.
I've wanted to participate in neverwinter PvP since I first start playing because the combat system is awesome, but with the complete lack of balance at the endgame the only way I can do that is to keep leveling new toons and participating in the lower, more balanced brackets. Is there anything I can do here? Any advice from people who've been there before on how to farm all that honor for the good PvP gear without just getting constantly ROFLstomped? It's very frustrating. I ended up giving up before I even had enough honor for one piece of the profound set, forget the whole thing.
Post edited by grumblesmorf on
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why they don't make a honest hearted attempt to make pvp more attractive to new/casual players just boggles my mind
there's so much revenue that's not being taken up there
i just don't get it....it's seriously a diamond in a mess of imbalance, poor matchmaking, huge gear gaps....the diamond part being the AMAZING combat system, i can't compliment the combat in this game enough
one reason i think is because they have to match the pveish tabletop wizards of the coast releases, or so it seems, idk, i'm not blaming anyone, it's just sad that pvp isn't focused on more, but what do i know?
I don't understand why players should care about the revenue that the game makes. There should be one thing to care about - if game is fun or not. Currently, Neverwinter's PvP is *not* fun. That's all that matters.
And really, newbies generally don't even realize they're newbies, or how much skill difference there is between people. Leave all the GS out and put the vets and newbies against each other and it's still a massacre, hands down. The way vets move, think, naturally position themselves in a fight and where in choosing fights, etc etc.. it's just no contest -- and unfortunately most newbies don't respect any of that.
And of course, the worst part. Newbies don't listen. Since they don't listen, they don't learn.
Understandable, since probably more than half of them would be hard-pressed to be able to look at the chat screen. But in the off occasion where someone really tries to explain it nicely without any condescending or mean attitude, they still don't give a darn.
Obviously, of course, the worst is TRs. Since I'm a long time TR myself, maybe I just tend to look at them with more strict judgement... but the way the TRs are playing, its just .... pitiful. The classic kill-happy, useless-to-the-team TRs with way too much egos with OP tools. It's just a nightmare with one of those around in my team.
My 2cents.
or buy stuff in the AH,
get +6 rings by jewelery (i don´t have them)
get your boons, without u are HAMSTER, took me 3 month for WL and DC
now u can take part
you dont go running in a car competition with a fiat multipla when your enemy has a lambo.
You could have the 15k and lower GS players have a separate queue from players with 16k+ and above GS. That way the low GS players can have the time to properly catch up and increase their GS without having their PvP death:kills or wins:losses ratio stats all screwed up.
My alt is at 14k GS now, and I've seldom met any premades at all during the last two weeks. I remember meeting a EoA premade once, and that's it. Most people I've met in those two weeks were anywhere between 11k gs to 16~17k gs.
Considering that only the newbiest of newbies are like... 6k gs... 8k gs.. etc etc.. and also considering the fact that you could use the invoked ADs during the level up process and buy cheap purples and enchants in the AH and still easily get 11k GS or so, frankly I'm not sure if the matchmaking is really so much at fault. In most cases the horrible matches I was in was usually a result of horrible players, hands down, no excuses.
So I'm now sort of leaning towards newbies make way too much gs excuses school of thought.
With Pure weapon/armor enchants, rank 12s and all the uberhigh levels on artifacts etc its simply not possible to get PvP to a state where its fun to play. It will always be un-even teams. It will always be about the gear. Sure, its already like that in mod5 but with mod6 it will be even more.
Put a cap on it. Max rank 8s, max normal weapon enchants and max lvl 60 artifact. More players will match gear-wise and the skill will reveal the good and better players. And the playerbase will be bigger and the matches more equal and more fun to play.
Revenue is something accountants should take care of, because simple gamers usually lack info about companies' financial situation. However, fun is something that you can be a judge of reliably. Also, in case of Neverwinter new content are new levels of p2w refinement system. How will that bring new players into the game?
Good joke, will never happen. People can't even agree not to ninja loot on a greed runs. "But everyone must help meeeee to gear up because I'm a special snowflake!".
Very good idea or what about PVP with such a gear, that it has no enchants, just the gear and the epic artifacts or we could even say no artifacts, just gear. This would introduce skill.
Ok, we are dreaming, PVP is all about a big wallet and Cryptic knows this, so i would say there will be even bigger enchants, bigger artifacts and more legendary stuff in the future.
But making PVP so underpopulated as it is may make these plans obsolete and the huge power creep may prove to be counter productive, as it is already.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
A little bit longer answer: no. you need to spend way more than just "a couple of grands" and you need a team. Joining a PUG solo will highly likely put you in a team of "newer" players of your status.
This, make me wondering too. Maybe we can get that unexpected thing from cryptic torturer ))
^^
+1.
people tend to forget that.All classes ,especially ranged ones,have so much dps that if you are 2 vs 1 is over.if you attack first you kill.it is more than a FPS now.
This creates additional problems.old tactics and strategies considered the "holy graal" of pvp are abysmally obsolete.
to my opinion devs should not increase the DPS of any class since mod3.Balance changes should be what their name implies:balance changes.
Not "i reduce your X ejcounter by 25% i increase your Y encounter by 110%".
Too much cc (Tr dazes for 6 secs lol,CWs uber dps and cc,HRs abusing their mechanics since mod3) and too much dps =strategy out of the window.
The only toons that can survive enough vs 2 are the Trs.No matter the skill in equal gear any other toon is dead vs 2.This was not the case back in mod2.
1. Any item that doesn't contain the word "tenacity" should not be viable when flagged for pvp. (Armor,weapon,enchantments,artifacts)
2. Diminishing returns on Crowd control 100%/50%/etc.
3. If you don't participate for a set amount of time (healing or dps) it kicks you and you get penalty.
4. Double glory for Solo que
If you go semipremade against premade, all 22k+ GS and the semipremade gets one 9k PuG, it is a lost game, if the classes are evenly matched. You will have a constant 2v1, 3v2, 4v3 or 5v4 fight, bc the 9k PuG is dead on arrival.
Now imagine a full premade against one or two 22k+ players and 3 players with 9-15k GS. It is so stupid, it is not even funny.
I have build a troll one-shot or die TR with scraps from my other chars. He has ~18k GS. I got qued with 9-15k GS ppl against a full PvP premade. When my teammates tried to fight, I was able to sneak in 1 or 2 kills. After 2 or 3 minutes it was down to 5v1 and even when I killed a player, his mates killed me and revived him, never mid the fact, that allmost every PvP premade has a faithful DC and you will have to deal twice the dmg to kill one player.
ELO does not work now, what will happen in Mod 6? You will have a few BIS PvP players with 60-100k+ HP, maybe tene enchants (8 offensive slots a 5%= 40%, so tene will proc for 40k+ dmg), transcendend terror and SF, who will be able to kill 5 15k PuG players on their own. For the perfect troll they can go premade with 5 ppl, DC, GF, TR renegade CW with transcendend terror, vorp and plf. etc. and try to win fights just using at wills and maybe one encounter power. If the enchants debuffs stack, the enemy team will have ~0 defense and power, yay.
Exactly!
That's why many and i too have suggested, that different team combinations and different gear combos shouldn't be allowed at a PVP match.
I stay to my word, this could be easily implemented if PVP would only have the players gear and maybe artifacts, but no enchantments and other things. Pure and simple.
All these enchants of different kind make things even worse and complicated, if one is such a great PVPer and has some skills, let's bring it on. Let us see the battle of skills, not enchants.
Of course a team should be equal too, so matchmaking should take same amount of classes on both sides, not as it is currently, that you have to face 4 TRs in a PUG match or have many under 10k players on your team and have to face 20k+ monsters. Insane...
And if things stay the same- currently looking so- PVP power creep will be even bigger and PVP even more underpopulated. Nobody likes to be humiliated over and over!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Binmen = Characters with 11K and less. Twinks, Bots and Newbies that claim "i got level 60 in the last 2 hours, so stop complaining" (i have an urge to punch such noobs that still wear level 40 Armor and Weapon, i saw someone with a Weapon SKIN as weapon)
Rookie = 14K+ characters. They have T2 or maybe better armor (low PvP Armor) but still miss 1 or 2 artifacts and some artifact gear from blue to purple with low enchantments. Nothing bad about that everyone started with something.
Seasoned = Around 17-18K characters. Played a lot, payed a bit or whatever. Has a decent character and some skill.
Veteran = 21K+ characters. Outplayed characters with optimized build. Hard to crack if you have not a similar GS or an OP-Class.
Veteran-Pro = Same as Veteran but has many hours of expierence in PvP and most likely queues with other veterans (Premade) and coordinates over Teamspeak. You are most likely to loose against such powerbuild groups.
Every new player to PvP should start at a Rookie like Level. No one needs more Binmens in PvP. To get a decent armor is not hard and if you recently got level 60 there is a ton of things that keeps you busy besides PvP.
I know mate
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
While i still think matchmaking is HAMSTER, i must admit people are the other side of the coin, but they should be handled too, by Admins, instant ban for a week or a month and i would bet it would be better to live in this virtual world.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Naturally, this means I've spent the entire month in the low-mid GS zone... and all I can say is the matchmaking is actually working. Like also mentioned, the only times I've met clearly pointless opponents with massive GS differences was once or twice. There were more occasions where one person with 20k+ GS would be mixed in, but on the whole scale it was also pretty rare.
The ABSOLUTE majority of matches I've had was against players that were anywhere between 2k below me to 2k above me and honestly speaking, during the entire month of non-stop PvP overall the performance levels were similar between people. All the matches I've won and lost, it was basically about who had better players, and rarely about who had better gear. Like said there wasn't too much of a gear difference anyway. The most outrageous defeats were caused by being teamed with the most clueless people, and for wins vice versa.
Overall, what was most frustrating to me was not the TRs (rarely lost to one in the first place), not massive gs gaps or premades (rarely met such in the first place), but rather the agonizing pain of having to watch people with like 1k.. 2k.. 3k higher GS than mine and yet having no idea how domination is played out, with zero concept of coordination or cooperation, and generally doing stupid things which put me in a situation I've never have met when I was using my main, the TR.
When you're a TR, the impacts of newbie teammates are far less engripping. You can lonewolf as you like. When you're something else, the difference in skill level between yourself and your lesser teammates usually makes you the target of gang-ups... like being the only one standing the ground on a crucial node as all the other teammates run off to god knows where makes me the gang-bang victim... or having your ranged teammates doing that FPS thing behind LOS or standing on top of pillars makes you the only one trying to take the node, which then makes you the natural target of focus fire... etc etc..
...but I digress. The point being, this past month for me seems to suggest there is some kind of grouping players and it actually works better than we think. In all honesty, the fights were mostly fair gearwise. Almost every match we lost, it was deserving -- we clearly had worse, less skilled players. Hence, we lost.
I remember when I reached max lv60 the very first time with my main TR. That was during early days of mod2. And I can say those days were insurmountably worse and difficult than what I've experienced this past month. I'm led to believe people are using GS as an excuse way too much -- more than it deserves to be.