Currently, eight of my characters are leveling purely through invocation and leadership. They're all now between 35-50 from this. Seven other characters of mine have went from level 11 to 60 from just invocation and leadership. This allows me to keep my alts leveling while focusing on my current level 60's. Usually every day, at least one of my non-60's levels up when they invoke for one of the first few invokes for the day.
This also helps me to keep all my characters companions leveling as well. As well, I often get overflow levels on my current 60's when I do my invokes and professions. Each time I get a new level 60, I make at least one more character and level them to 11 right away, and then set them up on leadership and with altars for invocations by the bank.
If they were to, which I doubt they would, take away experience from invocation, they would see me no longer buying character slots as much as I do now. For I would just not ever get around to leveling those characters for quite some time, as I wouldn't be getting new level 60's and not be tempted to start another new character.
O.o How many characters do you have?? going by your Sig I'd say 26??
Currently, eight of my characters are leveling purely through invocation and leadership. They're all now between 35-50 from this. Seven other characters of mine have went from level 11 to 60 from just invocation and leadership. This allows me to keep my alts leveling while focusing on my current level 60's. Usually every day, at least one of my non-60's levels up when they invoke for one of the first few invokes for the day.
This also helps me to keep all my characters companions leveling as well. As well, I often get overflow levels on my current 60's when I do my invokes and professions. Each time I get a new level 60, I make at least one more character and level them to 11 right away, and then set them up on leadership and with altars for invocations by the bank.
If they were to, which I doubt they would, take away experience from invocation, they would see me no longer buying character slots as much as I do now. For I would just not ever get around to leveling those characters for quite some time, as I wouldn't be getting new level 60's and not be tempted to start another new character.
I believe they are looking to reduce the effectiveness of leadership/invoking alts. You can see this throughout the year as they have nerfed several items. Namely the 7 day coffer, first by lowing coal ward drops and then by binding to account.
I would not be surprised if they rework the system to reduce the effectiveness of an "alt army" I don't think it aligns with how they think the game should be played. Not my thoughts as it seems to be the only effective way to generate AD at the moment but I can see the writing on the wall
I believe they are looking to reduce the effectiveness of leadership/invoking alts. You can see this throughout the year as they have nerfed several items. Namely the 7 day coffer, first by lowing coal ward drops and then by binding to account.
I would not be surprised if they rework the system to reduce the effectiveness of an "alt army" I don't think it aligns with how they think the game should be played. Not my thoughts as it seems to be the only effective way to generate AD at the moment but I can see the writing on the wall
If they do the exodus will be massive. Most people run alt armies now because it's the only choice other than forking over hundreds to thousands of dollars. Take that way and there is no more game.
I would not be surprised if they rework the system to reduce the effectiveness of an "alt army" I don't think it aligns with how they think the game should be played.
Personally I don't think it aligns with how the game should be played either. Hopefully removal of some of the current, more 'gamey' ways of making AD will lead to a better overall system where players can earn through playing. We'll see though, I'm not betting money on it.
I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about that possible move. Name one occurrence where they've buffed another area after their bot-nerfs. You can't? Guess why...
So if they rework the whole invocation / RAD scenery, it'll be most likely just a nerf across the board.
That said, I would love to replace my leadership army. It's not fun doing that kind of stuff, but 2-3M per week is substantial. I'm just positive I'm gonna end up with less ADs or less ADs/time invested than before. Which would suck.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
O.o How many characters do you have?? going by your Sig I'd say 26??
I forget but the last time I counted I think it was 28. I don't think I've added my newest ones in my signature yet. When Mod 6 comes, I already have four Paladins planned. While my characters may appear to be a leadership army, I do actually play each one. Every week that I have game-time, I choose one to two or three characters, in addition to Old Zeb and Daxx Dae'Vesh, to focus on for that week. It's just that those that are level 60 have been the ones I choose to play, letting the lowbies level up as they invoke and do leadership. Once in a while I'll pick on and level it.
Old Zeb and Daxx are my main two that will always trump priority over the rest, as they're my favorite two NPCs in my paper & pencil campaign that I DM. Almost all my characters are based upon my own custom made NPCs in my Campaign. 'Zeb the Younger' is an exception, as he is based off of my first Ranger that I played in my friends' custom campaign, that I re-worked his biography to fit in with the Realms and my other characters related to Old Zeb.
Personally I don't think it aligns with how the game should be played either. Hopefully removal of some of the current, more 'gamey' ways of making AD will lead to a better overall system where players can earn through playing. We'll see though, I'm not betting money on it.
Personally I couldn't disagree with you more. Options are good. Until they (the devs) can demonstrate that they are adding a new potential AD income stream for legit players, I don't want to see any options removed.
Trick is - if they remove leveling from invocation and nerf leadership( still no changes on that one so highly possible) - why do you need to have alts then? Why would you build paladin then? to build one just for what reason?
literally now there is no reason to keep working on chars over 60. Due to huge amount of RP and campaigns ( possible change) and new levels artifacts. you need an army of alts to keep your main in shape. Even if you waste zen on it.
Cryptic is famous how it steps on its own tail. Like how people left before first refinement system change. What ever they want to do they need to think hard on point why people want to play this game. It is not like they give us so much "free" stuff. Take it all away, Make more RND in invocation, remove Leadership and invocation XP bonuses - no reason for alt. No new shine paladins, no new races and new build. Just stupid grind like whole tod 4&5 campaigns.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Trick is - if they remove leveling from invocation and nerf leadership( still no changes on that one so highly possible) - why do you need to have alts then? Why would you build paladin then? to build one just for what reason?
literally now there is no reason to keep working on chars over 60. Due to huge amount of RP and campaigns ( possible change) and new levels artifacts. you need an army of alts to keep your main in shape. Even if you waste zen on it.
Cryptic is famous how it steps on its own tail. Like how people left before first refinement system change. What ever they want to do they need to think hard on point why people want to play this game. It is not like they give us so much "free" stuff. Take it all away, Make more RND in invocation, remove Leadership and invocation XP bonuses - no reason for alt. No new shine paladins, no new races and new build. Just stupid grind like whole tod 4&5 campaigns.
I play for fun, not to be the best or reach some preconceived end-game. As I said before, in another thread, barely any of my 20 (soon 21) level 60 characters have artifact equipment, and those that do only have one or two which are either a belt or a belt and a cloak -- and I am doing just fine, having fun. The reason I have so many characters is so I don't get bored with one. I am an alt-o'holic, a by product of being a DM for so many years, roleplaying countless NPCs. I shift around and play them all sporadically, picking one or two each week to focus on, along with my main two characters.
I play for fun, not to be the best or reach some preconceived end-game. As I said before, in another thread, barely any of my 20 (soon 21) level 60 characters have artifact equipment, and those that do only have one or two which are either a belt or a belt and a cloak -- and I am doing just fine, having fun. The reason I have so many characters is so I don't get bored with one. I am an alt-o'holic, a by product of being a DM for so many years, roleplaying countless NPCs. I shift around and play them all sporadically, picking one or two each week to focus on, along with my main two characters.
I used to play NW like that Zeb. However I think a difference is that I like to feel that I was making some progress on those characters as well. The problem is that with the RP system that is in place with all the arti-gear I no longer feel like those characters make progress anymore. That's why all my characters are now leadership alts except for one. If they remove the bonus of leadership, they'll remove the method we have for stable AD gain. Doing that well, that will be just a little too far for me. I think from comments you guys put in that you mods give the dev's a list of feedback from the forums each week. So I hope that things like this are a part of it. I don't know. Just feeling a little anxious that there is talk of removing the last way that we have of gaining steady ad growth at this point.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I think from comments you guys put in that you mods give the dev's a list of feedback from the forums each week. So I hope that things like this are a part of it.
The feedback we give is almost always accompanied with a link to forum threads and posts, when relevant. There's been many times when we give feedback, we're asked right away for more forum threads on the reports as well. We try and refrain from giving individual opinions of users. Instead, we try to give an overall report with a link to the thread itself, that way they can read the thread and draw their own conclusions. We try to always be as objective as possible.
For example, in my report going out tomorrow, this is my entry for the RP situation:
3) Refinement - Players still crave more details on plans to make the Refinement System better. Not only in regard to the UI but making it less of a grind and less of a chore to gather and refine items.
HOT topic thread on this: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?831791
These reports normally go out on Mondays, but as today is a national holiday, it's delayed until tomorrow for when our CMs are in Office.
As for this specific invocation concern, we're holding off on conveying it in our reports until they get more information and changes to preview on the Invocation Changes. For Panderus had stated that the Invocation System is currently not working right on preview and that there'd be more information "next week," which would be this week now. Giving feedback on it now, in such a capacity, would be premature.
Personally I couldn't disagree with you more. Options are good. Until they (the devs) can demonstrate that they are adding a new potential AD income stream for legit players, I don't want to see any options removed.
Fair enough. The potential problem is that devs tend to work off stats and metrics. If current numbers show invoking is allowing people to earn 'too much' through numerous characters then it'll get changed. Any compensatory changes will probably have a lag time whilst the impact of the original change is analysed.
If you're lucky I'm wrong. 'Legit players' almost always seem to suffer whilst loop-holes are closed though. I've seen similar things before and it doesn't help that I'm cynicial and lack faith, so ...
Otherwise in general response to some of the further posts in this thread my play philosophy is similar to that of Zeb, although I only have one of each class. I've come to the conclusion that it's more fun for me to play different classes sporadically for variety. It's impossible for me to 'keep up' on even a single class and the monotony and repetitive nature of Neverwinter content would likely cause me to burn out if I tried.
Fair enough. The potential problem is that devs tend to work off stats and metrics. If current numbers show invoking is allowing people to earn 'too much' through numerous characters then it'll get changed. Any compensatory changes will probably have a lag time whilst the impact of the original change is analysed.
If you're lucky I'm wrong. 'Legit players' almost always seem to suffer whilst loop-holes are closed though. I've seen similar things before and it doesn't help that I'm cynicial and lack faith, so ...
Otherwise in general response to some of the further posts in this thread my play philosophy is similar to that of Zeb, although I only have one of each class. I've come to the conclusion that it's more fun for me to play different classes sporadically for variety. It's impossible for me to 'keep up' on even a single class and the monotony and repetitive nature of Neverwinter content would likely cause me to burn out if I tried.
If they do decide to mess with the current invoking/leadership ad generating, i do hope they nerf it by making a account wide max RAD pool, and remove the rad limit pr. toon. Even though it probaly would hurt me a bit, it is hard to argue against the system not WAI, when we have people with leadership armies of 25+... Also if they do decide to bump the leadership to lvl 25, it hope the lvls 20-25 will allow people to create Bta(making them not bound, would be a botter nightmare) RP stones, since I doubt there is any way they are gonna allow players to generate more AD's than they currently do and allowing players to create RP wouldnt hurt the overall economy, and would still make it beneficials for people who have leadership armies...
I don't have a problem with folks generating AD via a leadership army and I don't see it as a loophole.
It's just another way to play the game and it does take some effort. Ideally those profs need prodding 2 or 3 times each day. That takes a significant amount of time if you have more than a handful of toons. Some may consider that a waste of their gaming time, others may actually enjoy it. Games like NW need to maintain that diversity to keep people interested. I'd like to see more "side quest" methods to generate a bit of income. I have part ownership in some businesses in Caer-Konig but the chaps running those business think it is OK to just throw me a potion every now and again rather than hand over hard cash...
If they do decide to mess with the current invoking/leadership ad generating, i do hope they nerf it by making a account wide max RAD pool, and remove the rad limit pr. toon. Even though it probaly would hurt me a bit, it is hard to argue against the system not WAI, when we have people with leadership armies of 25+... Also if they do decide to bump the leadership to lvl 25, it hope the lvls 20-25 will allow people to create Bta(making them not bound, would be a botter nightmare) RP stones, since I doubt there is any way they are gonna allow players to generate more AD's than they currently do and allowing players to create RP wouldnt hurt the overall economy, and would still make it beneficials for people who have leadership armies...
I'm sorry, but this is not a good solution.
The only people that it would affect are the ones who actually only have one account. Most of the "leadership armies" are 1 or 2 characters on many, many accounts. You'd have to actually buy a lot of character slots to make an army on a single account, though that could be done with AD transferred to zen instead of using real money it's not something that botters are likely to do when they don't have to.
You'd just end up upsetting potential paying customers, and make "leadership armies" an even bigger problem since you would make RP more farmable by bots. They don't seem to have any problem using the bound RP from dragon hoard enchants to refine other sellable enchantments.
Most of the "leadership armies" are 1 or 2 characters on many, many accounts.
I think this is an incorrect statement. I don't think you will find many botters making their AD from leadership. They make their money from selling farmed stuff on the AH. Leadership just does not generate AD quickly enough.
Players with leadership armies do tend to have them on a single account and, yes, they probably bought the extra slots with AD-Zen conversions. Which is fine, I think.
The only people that it would affect are the ones who actually only have one account. Most of the "leadership armies" are 1 or 2 characters on many, many accounts. You'd have to actually buy a lot of character slots to make an army on a single account, though that could be done with AD transferred to zen instead of using real money it's not something that botters are likely to do when they don't have to.
You'd just end up upsetting potential paying customers, and make "leadership armies" an even bigger problem since you would make RP more farmable by bots. They don't seem to have any problem using the bound RP from dragon hoard enchants to refine other sellable enchantments.
Dont be sorry, I dont mind a good discussion:) Anyway dont think i agree that the average joe schmo who have a leadership army, only to get ad and not to sell them for real Money, have them on different accounts. The added burden with transfering ad from one account to another, I would imagine would be to much of a hazzle, compared to just forking 500 zen over... With regards to the botters, i doubt that they get their ad from leadership instead of just farming nodes etc. since the time investment in getting a leadership profession to 20 is pretty significant, and I would imagine that they get their toon deleted/banned pretty often:)
Regarding making RP with high level leader, an easy solution would be to make the RP from leadership be only for equipment, since all equipment gets bound the second it get any refining point into them, that should stop it from being a potential botting dream:)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
I purchased all my extra character slots, I have never bought zen through the exchange.
There are many ways to pay/play this game, assuming too much is incorrect. Unless they completely overhaul the system on every level, I would be completely opposed to removing Leadership AD in the game, or even reducing it, in fact give me more. I would rather manage ten toons invoking/leadership then grind for more then 5 mins for RP stones.
I started this game thinking it was a really good niche casual affair, where you could do 15-20 mins a day on dailies, 30 or so mins in DDs, 30 or so mins in GG, 30 or so in PVP.
For months this is what I did every day, then Mod 4 came out and totally desroyed this aspect of the game for me. Its was all dailies all the time and mod 5 is more dailies + more tiamat + more solo grinding.. it is pretty boring to me at the moment.
So ya, count me against it, I paid to open those slots, what was the point otherwise? I dont mind if games change, but they have to be reasonable changes.
Well I'll admit to being wrong then. But I stand by my opinion that it is a horribly inefficient way to level a character that takes far too long.
My storage mule is level 51. No leadership experience because I've only ever done hiring tasks on him. I forget when I made him, but he's still getting a couple of levels a week, though at a slower rate than when they required less XP. Still, the way the invoke rewards scale as you level keeps that bar filling steadily.
Wait, I lied. I made him in time to get him to level 20 before they had the Pit Fight CTA, so that I'd get a mount coupon from his reward box.
I guess I'm going to reconsider turning him into a Leadership alt now though. I didn't put any effort into slot unlocks because he was always potentially up for deletion, but I'm leaning towards making more alts I don't play instead of less, in an effort to support the ones I do play.
Well I'll admit to being wrong then. But I stand by my opinion that it is a horribly inefficient way to level a character that takes far too long.
Depends on how you do it. I becomes very efficient invoking one character while playing/leveling another. Usefull for that "second/third class", or just busy people. Heck if your busy it's too efficient and you end up with a naked 60x, had to *not* take the invoking quest on my newest characater to see the post-beta changes and dragon integration "live"
If AD removal is to stop the farmers/bots/alts, it doesnt' fix the problem, it just makes people angry. But fixing the problem would make people really angry (and kinda break things with current AH/AD meta-game)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
There is millions of AD in sinks, we dont need another dime, if people are making more then that , then kudos you have won the game, many of us are NO where near that amount of AD income, not even close to it.
One of the issues going back ALONG way was the people who did this legit and the then rest of them.
There still is millions of exploited AD in this game, if not billions. SOME of those same people caught at cheating, also were the proponents for AD sinks.
New players are just feeling the brunt of this, but many of us are sick of the AD sink quest.
HERE is a fiction that poeple like to put into fact, that ZEN exchange backlog monitors a healthy game economy, IT does not, it only benefits those who DO not spend money. I have never bought zen from the exchange, nor have I sold any zen on the exchange it does nothing for me. If I want something I buy it. If I want to make some AD, I avoid the zen all together, I never could understand WHY anyone would actually sell zen on there, UNLESS it was zen that was bought by in game exploited AD/saved and resold at a later date or something. (buy low sell high )
AD income for many of us NEVER makes up for what we want to do in game. Thats the true reality of it, a few people from the start of the game, got TONS of alts rolling and make millions a week, well your average player might have 4 alts, I have 9, some have twenty, its all over the place.
YOU do not simply make AD money overnight when starting alts, it takes months and if you were like me, I did them as I went along, so 2 at a time every few months, I only have 5 maxed on leadership! the rest are still working towards it.
I never could understand WHY anyone would actually sell zen on there, UNLESS it was zen that was bought by in game exploited AD/saved and resold at a later date or something. (buy low sell high )
People spend real money to buy zen then sell the zen to get AD to buy things in-game that are not available in the Zen store. Simples.
There is millions of AD in sinks, we dont need another dime, if people are making more then that , then kudos you have won the game, many of us are NO where near that amount of AD income, not even close to it.
One of the issues going back ALONG way was the people who did this legit and the then rest of them.
There still is millions of exploited AD in this game, if not billions. SOME of those same people caught at cheating, also were the proponents for AD sinks.
New players are just feeling the brunt of this, but many of us are sick of the AD sink quest.
HERE is a fiction that poeple like to put into fact, that ZEN exchange backlog monitors a healthy game economy, IT does not, it only benefits those who DO not spend money. I have never bought zen from the exchange, nor have I sold any zen on the exchange it does nothing for me. If I want something I buy it. If I want to make some AD, I avoid the zen all together, I never could understand WHY anyone would actually sell zen on there, UNLESS it was zen that was bought by in game exploited AD/saved and resold at a later date or something. (buy low sell high )
AD income for many of us NEVER makes up for what we want to do in game. Thats the true reality of it, a few people from the start of the game, got TONS of alts rolling and make millions a week, well your average player might have 4 alts, I have 9, some have twenty, its all over the place.
YOU do not simply make AD money overnight when starting alts, it takes months and if you were like me, I did them as I went along, so 2 at a time every few months, I only have 5 maxed on leadership! the rest are still working towards it.
I buy AD all the time with my ZEN. I support this game quite heavily with close to $1000 USD invested since about XMAS. I have no patience for grinding in MMOs and am quite well off in real life so I do not have an issue forking over some cash for my hobby. The main issue I have is that if they go and change Leadership now and nerf it after I spent my hard earned real life USD on this game and all the alt char slots/heroes/adventurers/grand master artificers etc to get my toons up to 3 professions to 20 to have all 9 slots across my 21 characters...... I will feel BETRAYED by this company that set forth the path to allow me to spend this much money to do so.
Nerf leadership and you basically lost a high paying customer.
Not only the money involved but the hard work I put in over the past 2 months levelling up about 15 60s in the process of my 21 toons. I will definately Rage Quit and rightfully so.
I know I'm not alone either. There will be one heck of an exodus of supporting players that actually spend $$$ on the game.
But in the end put it in perspective.... what drives the alt armies doing leadership grind???
Things like Perfect Enchants costing around $200 in Diamonds. Things like that, that are basically must-haves at end game. I like to spend my $$$ efficiently not stupidly.... so that just isn't happening. So the Leadership grind is the only real option I see.
Comments
O.o How many characters do you have?? going by your Sig I'd say 26??
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
I believe they are looking to reduce the effectiveness of leadership/invoking alts. You can see this throughout the year as they have nerfed several items. Namely the 7 day coffer, first by lowing coal ward drops and then by binding to account.
I would not be surprised if they rework the system to reduce the effectiveness of an "alt army" I don't think it aligns with how they think the game should be played. Not my thoughts as it seems to be the only effective way to generate AD at the moment but I can see the writing on the wall
If they do the exodus will be massive. Most people run alt armies now because it's the only choice other than forking over hundreds to thousands of dollars. Take that way and there is no more game.
Personally I don't think it aligns with how the game should be played either. Hopefully removal of some of the current, more 'gamey' ways of making AD will lead to a better overall system where players can earn through playing. We'll see though, I'm not betting money on it.
So if they rework the whole invocation / RAD scenery, it'll be most likely just a nerf across the board.
That said, I would love to replace my leadership army. It's not fun doing that kind of stuff, but 2-3M per week is substantial. I'm just positive I'm gonna end up with less ADs or less ADs/time invested than before. Which would suck.
Old Zeb and Daxx are my main two that will always trump priority over the rest, as they're my favorite two NPCs in my paper & pencil campaign that I DM. Almost all my characters are based upon my own custom made NPCs in my Campaign. 'Zeb the Younger' is an exception, as he is based off of my first Ranger that I played in my friends' custom campaign, that I re-worked his biography to fit in with the Realms and my other characters related to Old Zeb.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Personally I couldn't disagree with you more. Options are good. Until they (the devs) can demonstrate that they are adding a new potential AD income stream for legit players, I don't want to see any options removed.
literally now there is no reason to keep working on chars over 60. Due to huge amount of RP and campaigns ( possible change) and new levels artifacts. you need an army of alts to keep your main in shape. Even if you waste zen on it.
Cryptic is famous how it steps on its own tail. Like how people left before first refinement system change. What ever they want to do they need to think hard on point why people want to play this game. It is not like they give us so much "free" stuff. Take it all away, Make more RND in invocation, remove Leadership and invocation XP bonuses - no reason for alt. No new shine paladins, no new races and new build. Just stupid grind like whole tod 4&5 campaigns.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I used to play NW like that Zeb. However I think a difference is that I like to feel that I was making some progress on those characters as well. The problem is that with the RP system that is in place with all the arti-gear I no longer feel like those characters make progress anymore. That's why all my characters are now leadership alts except for one. If they remove the bonus of leadership, they'll remove the method we have for stable AD gain. Doing that well, that will be just a little too far for me. I think from comments you guys put in that you mods give the dev's a list of feedback from the forums each week. So I hope that things like this are a part of it. I don't know. Just feeling a little anxious that there is talk of removing the last way that we have of gaining steady ad growth at this point.
For example, in my report going out tomorrow, this is my entry for the RP situation: These reports normally go out on Mondays, but as today is a national holiday, it's delayed until tomorrow for when our CMs are in Office.
As for this specific invocation concern, we're holding off on conveying it in our reports until they get more information and changes to preview on the Invocation Changes. For Panderus had stated that the Invocation System is currently not working right on preview and that there'd be more information "next week," which would be this week now. Giving feedback on it now, in such a capacity, would be premature.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Fair enough. The potential problem is that devs tend to work off stats and metrics. If current numbers show invoking is allowing people to earn 'too much' through numerous characters then it'll get changed. Any compensatory changes will probably have a lag time whilst the impact of the original change is analysed.
If you're lucky I'm wrong. 'Legit players' almost always seem to suffer whilst loop-holes are closed though. I've seen similar things before and it doesn't help that I'm cynicial and lack faith, so ...
Otherwise in general response to some of the further posts in this thread my play philosophy is similar to that of Zeb, although I only have one of each class. I've come to the conclusion that it's more fun for me to play different classes sporadically for variety. It's impossible for me to 'keep up' on even a single class and the monotony and repetitive nature of Neverwinter content would likely cause me to burn out if I tried.
If they do decide to mess with the current invoking/leadership ad generating, i do hope they nerf it by making a account wide max RAD pool, and remove the rad limit pr. toon. Even though it probaly would hurt me a bit, it is hard to argue against the system not WAI, when we have people with leadership armies of 25+... Also if they do decide to bump the leadership to lvl 25, it hope the lvls 20-25 will allow people to create Bta(making them not bound, would be a botter nightmare) RP stones, since I doubt there is any way they are gonna allow players to generate more AD's than they currently do and allowing players to create RP wouldnt hurt the overall economy, and would still make it beneficials for people who have leadership armies...
It's just another way to play the game and it does take some effort. Ideally those profs need prodding 2 or 3 times each day. That takes a significant amount of time if you have more than a handful of toons. Some may consider that a waste of their gaming time, others may actually enjoy it. Games like NW need to maintain that diversity to keep people interested. I'd like to see more "side quest" methods to generate a bit of income. I have part ownership in some businesses in Caer-Konig but the chaps running those business think it is OK to just throw me a potion every now and again rather than hand over hard cash...
I'm sorry, but this is not a good solution.
The only people that it would affect are the ones who actually only have one account. Most of the "leadership armies" are 1 or 2 characters on many, many accounts. You'd have to actually buy a lot of character slots to make an army on a single account, though that could be done with AD transferred to zen instead of using real money it's not something that botters are likely to do when they don't have to.
You'd just end up upsetting potential paying customers, and make "leadership armies" an even bigger problem since you would make RP more farmable by bots. They don't seem to have any problem using the bound RP from dragon hoard enchants to refine other sellable enchantments.
Okay, Panic.
I think this is an incorrect statement. I don't think you will find many botters making their AD from leadership. They make their money from selling farmed stuff on the AH. Leadership just does not generate AD quickly enough.
Players with leadership armies do tend to have them on a single account and, yes, they probably bought the extra slots with AD-Zen conversions. Which is fine, I think.
Dont be sorry, I dont mind a good discussion:) Anyway dont think i agree that the average joe schmo who have a leadership army, only to get ad and not to sell them for real Money, have them on different accounts. The added burden with transfering ad from one account to another, I would imagine would be to much of a hazzle, compared to just forking 500 zen over... With regards to the botters, i doubt that they get their ad from leadership instead of just farming nodes etc. since the time investment in getting a leadership profession to 20 is pretty significant, and I would imagine that they get their toon deleted/banned pretty often:)
Regarding making RP with high level leader, an easy solution would be to make the RP from leadership be only for equipment, since all equipment gets bound the second it get any refining point into them, that should stop it from being a potential botting dream:)
There are many ways to pay/play this game, assuming too much is incorrect. Unless they completely overhaul the system on every level, I would be completely opposed to removing Leadership AD in the game, or even reducing it, in fact give me more. I would rather manage ten toons invoking/leadership then grind for more then 5 mins for RP stones.
I started this game thinking it was a really good niche casual affair, where you could do 15-20 mins a day on dailies, 30 or so mins in DDs, 30 or so mins in GG, 30 or so in PVP.
For months this is what I did every day, then Mod 4 came out and totally desroyed this aspect of the game for me. Its was all dailies all the time and mod 5 is more dailies + more tiamat + more solo grinding.. it is pretty boring to me at the moment.
So ya, count me against it, I paid to open those slots, what was the point otherwise? I dont mind if games change, but they have to be reasonable changes.
My storage mule is level 51. No leadership experience because I've only ever done hiring tasks on him. I forget when I made him, but he's still getting a couple of levels a week, though at a slower rate than when they required less XP. Still, the way the invoke rewards scale as you level keeps that bar filling steadily.
Wait, I lied. I made him in time to get him to level 20 before they had the Pit Fight CTA, so that I'd get a mount coupon from his reward box.
I guess I'm going to reconsider turning him into a Leadership alt now though. I didn't put any effort into slot unlocks because he was always potentially up for deletion, but I'm leaning towards making more alts I don't play instead of less, in an effort to support the ones I do play.
Somehow this seems backasswards.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Depends on how you do it. I becomes very efficient invoking one character while playing/leveling another. Usefull for that "second/third class", or just busy people. Heck if your busy it's too efficient and you end up with a naked 60x, had to *not* take the invoking quest on my newest characater to see the post-beta changes and dragon integration "live"
If AD removal is to stop the farmers/bots/alts, it doesnt' fix the problem, it just makes people angry. But fixing the problem would make people really angry (and kinda break things with current AH/AD meta-game)
One of the issues going back ALONG way was the people who did this legit and the then rest of them.
There still is millions of exploited AD in this game, if not billions. SOME of those same people caught at cheating, also were the proponents for AD sinks.
New players are just feeling the brunt of this, but many of us are sick of the AD sink quest.
HERE is a fiction that poeple like to put into fact, that ZEN exchange backlog monitors a healthy game economy, IT does not, it only benefits those who DO not spend money. I have never bought zen from the exchange, nor have I sold any zen on the exchange it does nothing for me. If I want something I buy it. If I want to make some AD, I avoid the zen all together, I never could understand WHY anyone would actually sell zen on there, UNLESS it was zen that was bought by in game exploited AD/saved and resold at a later date or something. (buy low sell high )
AD income for many of us NEVER makes up for what we want to do in game. Thats the true reality of it, a few people from the start of the game, got TONS of alts rolling and make millions a week, well your average player might have 4 alts, I have 9, some have twenty, its all over the place.
YOU do not simply make AD money overnight when starting alts, it takes months and if you were like me, I did them as I went along, so 2 at a time every few months, I only have 5 maxed on leadership! the rest are still working towards it.
People spend real money to buy zen then sell the zen to get AD to buy things in-game that are not available in the Zen store. Simples.
I buy AD all the time with my ZEN. I support this game quite heavily with close to $1000 USD invested since about XMAS. I have no patience for grinding in MMOs and am quite well off in real life so I do not have an issue forking over some cash for my hobby. The main issue I have is that if they go and change Leadership now and nerf it after I spent my hard earned real life USD on this game and all the alt char slots/heroes/adventurers/grand master artificers etc to get my toons up to 3 professions to 20 to have all 9 slots across my 21 characters...... I will feel BETRAYED by this company that set forth the path to allow me to spend this much money to do so.
Nerf leadership and you basically lost a high paying customer.
Not only the money involved but the hard work I put in over the past 2 months levelling up about 15 60s in the process of my 21 toons. I will definately Rage Quit and rightfully so.
I know I'm not alone either. There will be one heck of an exodus of supporting players that actually spend $$$ on the game.
But in the end put it in perspective.... what drives the alt armies doing leadership grind???
Things like Perfect Enchants costing around $200 in Diamonds. Things like that, that are basically must-haves at end game. I like to spend my $$$ efficiently not stupidly.... so that just isn't happening. So the Leadership grind is the only real option I see.