As long as we don't know what levels of stats we will be able to reach at level 70 (and with the next modules) it doesn't make much sense to rage about the curves. Gentlemancrush already said that "We will eventually be releasing gear that gets you back there, but not at launch of module 6."
IMHO a change was needed. The game was at a point where it only made sense to invest in power and HP. How boring is that? With more linear curves there is much more room for different builds. I welcome that.
the curves are linear so you basically need one point to drow it.
2570 critical chance is 3.7%
2600 recovery is 4.1%
1550 deflect is 2.7%
3150 armor pen is 31.1%
700 regen is 1%
900 lifesteal is 1%
1400 movement speed is 2%
.... im out
" How boring is that? With more linear curves there is much more room for different builds "
you can build as you want....the difference is that you will Always have peanuts everywhere.
Stats on gear are around 1,8-2,5multiply (maybe even more) crafted weapon with +450 stat bonus (which is now a T2 bonus, but I even saw +600 which means its not best item to get from craft) has like 1,1k total of stats and around 5k power. In other words get stats you have now- double it- and thats what you get in worst gear as lvl 70. Then you can get only better.
the point is that the new curves are so harsh that there is no reason to gear up.
rank 10, rank 1 makes no difference. So what should i play for?
Yep, that's exactly one of my concerns. Once a difference of 30 points means nothing (0.02%?), why should I worry about upgrading enchantments? Why should I even try to go higher than R7? Or even R5 for that matter.
It's already hard to tell what will happen to gear, but at least gear has required levels, so under-60 and over-60 gear may behave differently (leave the former as they are now, multiply the latter by a factor of 3-4). They can't simply multiply enchantment stat bonuses though, because they are used both on pre-60 gear and post-60 equally...
Yep, that's exactly one of my concerns. Once a difference of 30 points means nothing (0.02%?), why should I worry about upgrading enchantments? Why should I even try to go higher than R7? Or even R5 for that matter.
The same is true with the current stat curves. Once you were in the saturation zone it didn't make any sense to increase stuff like Critical Strike, Defense, Recovery, etc.
The new curves provide more options because you get more for your investment, at least relative.
The same is true with the current stat curves. Once you were in the saturation zone it didn't make any sense to increase stuff like Critical Strike, Defense, Recovery, etc.
The new curves provide more options because you get more for your investment, at least relative.
I dont know. As now i will sell everything and play with rank 5. They are not worth for me. Being full rank 10 and gaining only a 2 percentile in comparison to rank 3 is useless. I would rather have 20m back
I dont know. As now i will sell everything and play with rank 5. They are not worth for me. Being full rank 10 and gaining only a 2 percentile in comparison to rank 3 is useless. I would rather have 20m back
Better sell them now before the module goes live and they're still in demand.
As the stat curves stand, the game is unplayable to me. I leveled my CW to 70 and after 1 heroic and a couple smaller fights. I knew all I needed. logged out and deleted him. I'm not going back to test as long as these curves are in place.
Did anyone test what the Devs mentioned about armor pen? that it will continuously provide damage as Damage Resistance can go into Negatives with just your Armor Pen rating, not including Class Abilities/Mechanics or Weapon Enchants such as PlagueFire?
if true, Armor Pen is one naaaaaasty stat to have.
Did anyone test what the Devs mentioned about armor pen? that it will continuously provide damage as Damage Resistance can go into Negatives with just your Armor Pen rating, not including Class Abilities/Mechanics or Weapon Enchants such as PlagueFire?
if true, Armor Pen is one naaaaaasty stat to have.
I had not heard that. I doubt it to be true, however. When you first cross over to level 61 armor penetration gets a huge bump (mine went up to ~50%). Despite that I don't believe I ever saw it go into negative on an enemy. It's effectiveness is still just capped at whatever damage resistance the enemy has. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, if this were true then Armor Pen would not just be a nasty stat to have, it would be the only stat worth having. It would be so out of line powerful there's no way they would let it stand.
Finished out the rest of the big stat categories to the first two posts. The rest of the stats that I have not looked at (Movement, Incoming Healing Bonus, Combat Advantage, et al.) I may get to later. Or I may not. I still have a lot of other testing I want to do on class specific changes.
Wow. Thank you Abaddon. I can see their logic now -- you have a stat like power it has a low amount for gaining a percentage point - and then crit and recovery are slightly higher-- then you see lifesteal is almost double that for 1% (of a chance). You cant disagree that it is a workable system. Yes, I think it needs to be applied 1-70 and maybe the % need to be a little more maybe 1.5% - but it's a simple workable system to gear characters for. Now a GF can stack 10k defense and realize the benefits of 25% DR on top of whatever feats etc. Do I think that # is small? YES. I think the % points should be 1.5 (I think 2 is too high). But at least with Abaddons data we have somewhere to start besides whining and cringing over speculation.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Hey guys, the stat curves are getting a second balancing pass. As a general rule of thumb now at level 70 all of your stats should be more competitive against each other.
As a soft rule, 400 Points in any stat is worth 1% of whatever it does (Deflect Rating into Deflect Chance for example).
Additionally, we are buffing the Cooldown Reduction portion of recovery to make it fall more in line with what its expected performance should be. Every 200 points will generate 1% shorter cooldowns (keep in mind that 100% CDR actually cuts your cooldowns in half).
I don't know yet when these changes will hit preview, but they should make statting a much simpler thing to do going forward.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Ok so they bring everything in line with Power, also ArPen?
I think boons still have to be buffed by a bit. +400 across the board makes a lot of sense, in my eyes the campaigns should remain a healthy part of the progression. Maybe make ToD boons +200/400 for the different stat curves as you can get them earlier than the rest.
Armor Reinforcement kits are fine I'd say at +800, but I'd like the Jewels to get an upgrade to fit the new curves as well.
Enchantments should be good now as well, currently R10 is giving +1% in an area.
They have essentially cut stats in half, which may be about right.
4000 crit on live is about a 20% gain. Under this new system at 70 it will be about a 10% gain.
Overall at 70 I think peoples stats will be comparatively lower, because Im fairly certain, the new gear at 70 will not have double the stats.
Again thats probably a good thing.
Hey guys, the stat curves are getting a second balancing pass. As a general rule of thumb now at level 70 all of your stats should be more competitive against each other.
As a soft rule, 400 Points in any stat is worth 1% of whatever it does (Deflect Rating into Deflect Chance for example).
Additionally, we are buffing the Cooldown Reduction portion of recovery to make it fall more in line with what its expected performance should be. Every 200 points will generate 1% shorter cooldowns (keep in mind that 100% CDR actually cuts your cooldowns in half).
I don't know yet when these changes will hit preview, but they should make statting a much simpler thing to do going forward.
I'm not even bothering to test again until the stats are 250-300 points/1% gain, or all enchantments get significantly buffed. It's burning me out and making me angry.
When a game makes me angry. It's time to stop playing.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited February 2015
They should swap max HP from Radiants with either azure or silvery, because really, radiants are all that people will use.
I don't think the system is a bad. The developers are right that players were more and more hitting every single softcap and pretty much all builds slotted Radiants exclusively.
I personally would have liked a new 'clean' system though, because this feels like yet another workaround instead of a solid 1-70 overhaul. And there is no way you can balance 60- and 61+ at the same time now. Boons are completely underpowered at 61+, but you can't just raise them to adjust to the new stat curve, because then they'd be OP at 60-. What about the massive LS a combat HR gets from feats? Doesn't it need to be tuned down? Doesn't the Warlock need more? What about powers, feats and other stuff that are relying on Crit? Reinforcement kits were downgraded, ability scores upgraded.
In my eyes each and every facet of balancing has to be looked at and rebalanced to fit the new system. And since I don't see signs they are trying to adjust at all, for now this feels awfully half-baked.
As a developer myself, we throw around this term we call scalability.
Meaning, you design it now and your implementation is still valid in the future.
The devs obviously didn't plan for their future bad decisions wreaking havoc on their already bad design. The solution is a future overhaul that does nothing but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off and drive more sales for them. Since, as we all know from PWE's track record, when a big change is introduced, the fix is always after people immediately turn to the Cash Shop.
Then again, that's assuming they keep this bad design. My expectation is one that's ridiculously worse and takes an entire mod to "fix".
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
So... they basically killed halforc race... All go barbie-faced human for more crit chance. Blades, erinyes, devastating critical, belts of dex on legandary+p vorpal, who cares? CW and TR even now outdps me hardly if they are equally geared. And seems this gap will be more wider in mod6, thanks to their crit chance boosters. Bonus dmg to aoe powers isnt enough since restoring strike and IBS are must to have. Not mention new power curve will hit my base damage, when TR can double his power with exe feat. With new LS GWF has litlle chance to be healed after avalanche. If LS tick on one mob he will be healed for 5-7k? Pathetic
Well, this is certainly an odd and unprecedented direction to take the game, we go from casual/easy to nearly impossible in one mod? What we'll go out with our lvl 60's and the instant we hit 61 we lose 80+% of our stat ratings because of the new curves? Hmmm, yeah, that sounds like some good incentive to play mod 6....
Even people who have single OP characters with many 10's of millions of AD in them will be getting crushed at lvl 61 when their eyes pop out of their head as they go from 65% damage bonus from power to 15% or 45% crit chance to 8% and 40% deflect chance to 5%....
This doesn't even touch on all the retroactive problems this causes with how feats, artifacts, companions, boons and races currently use stat points.
Comments
2600 recovery is 4.1% recharge speed ahahahahahahahaha
just tested now.
As long as we don't know what levels of stats we will be able to reach at level 70 (and with the next modules) it doesn't make much sense to rage about the curves. Gentlemancrush already said that "We will eventually be releasing gear that gets you back there, but not at launch of module 6."
IMHO a change was needed. The game was at a point where it only made sense to invest in power and HP. How boring is that? With more linear curves there is much more room for different builds. I welcome that.
2570 critical chance is 3.7%
2600 recovery is 4.1%
1550 deflect is 2.7%
3150 armor pen is 31.1%
700 regen is 1%
900 lifesteal is 1%
1400 movement speed is 2%
.... im out
" How boring is that? With more linear curves there is much more room for different builds "
you can build as you want....the difference is that you will Always have peanuts everywhere.
Enchants do need to give a flat % increase.
Yep, that's exactly one of my concerns. Once a difference of 30 points means nothing (0.02%?), why should I worry about upgrading enchantments? Why should I even try to go higher than R7? Or even R5 for that matter.
It's already hard to tell what will happen to gear, but at least gear has required levels, so under-60 and over-60 gear may behave differently (leave the former as they are now, multiply the latter by a factor of 3-4). They can't simply multiply enchantment stat bonuses though, because they are used both on pre-60 gear and post-60 equally...
According to gentlemancrush they are not linear: "While the curves are not totally linear, they will feel that way for the most part."
My guess is that for "high" stat values they will begin to give diminishing returns.
The same is true with the current stat curves. Once you were in the saturation zone it didn't make any sense to increase stuff like Critical Strike, Defense, Recovery, etc.
The new curves provide more options because you get more for your investment, at least relative.
I dont know. As now i will sell everything and play with rank 5. They are not worth for me. Being full rank 10 and gaining only a 2 percentile in comparison to rank 3 is useless. I would rather have 20m back
Better sell them now before the module goes live and they're still in demand.
if true, Armor Pen is one naaaaaasty stat to have.
I had not heard that. I doubt it to be true, however. When you first cross over to level 61 armor penetration gets a huge bump (mine went up to ~50%). Despite that I don't believe I ever saw it go into negative on an enemy. It's effectiveness is still just capped at whatever damage resistance the enemy has. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, if this were true then Armor Pen would not just be a nasty stat to have, it would be the only stat worth having. It would be so out of line powerful there's no way they would let it stand.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?831701-Official-Feedback-Thread-Stat-Changes&p=10039481#post10039481
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I think boons still have to be buffed by a bit. +400 across the board makes a lot of sense, in my eyes the campaigns should remain a healthy part of the progression. Maybe make ToD boons +200/400 for the different stat curves as you can get them earlier than the rest.
Armor Reinforcement kits are fine I'd say at +800, but I'd like the Jewels to get an upgrade to fit the new curves as well.
Enchantments should be good now as well, currently R10 is giving +1% in an area.
Still HP > everything in defensive slots.
4000 crit on live is about a 20% gain. Under this new system at 70 it will be about a 10% gain.
Overall at 70 I think peoples stats will be comparatively lower, because Im fairly certain, the new gear at 70 will not have double the stats.
Again thats probably a good thing.
I'm not even bothering to test again until the stats are 250-300 points/1% gain, or all enchantments get significantly buffed. It's burning me out and making me angry.
When a game makes me angry. It's time to stop playing.
As a developer myself, we throw around this term we call scalability.
Meaning, you design it now and your implementation is still valid in the future.
The devs obviously didn't plan for their future bad decisions wreaking havoc on their already bad design. The solution is a future overhaul that does nothing but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> people off and drive more sales for them. Since, as we all know from PWE's track record, when a big change is introduced, the fix is always after people immediately turn to the Cash Shop.
Then again, that's assuming they keep this bad design. My expectation is one that's ridiculously worse and takes an entire mod to "fix".
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Even people who have single OP characters with many 10's of millions of AD in them will be getting crushed at lvl 61 when their eyes pop out of their head as they go from 65% damage bonus from power to 15% or 45% crit chance to 8% and 40% deflect chance to 5%....
This doesn't even touch on all the retroactive problems this causes with how feats, artifacts, companions, boons and races currently use stat points.