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Level 70 Stat curves
abaddon523
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Disclaimer: This thread is not to be used as a "Rage against the Devs" thread. I'm also not trying to be subversive and disclose information the devs don't want out there. After all, this exercise has already been done before for the old stat curves here. This post is solely made so that the player community can understand, analyze, and provide relevant feedback for the developers on the upcoming changes to the Stat Curves in Module 6. The only way players can provide salient feedback is when we have solid information to go on.
*I will update this post with more curves as I gather more information*
*Feel Free to expand upon or correct information I post where necessary*
Power
The result is that 400 power will now add 1% damage.
Critical Strike
The result is that 697 Critical Strike will add 1% more Crit chance.
Armor Penetration
If anyone has data for Armor Penetration above 4800 I would appreciate access to it. I do not believe my projection above 4800 to be all that accurate. The Armor Penetration curve is not a straight line. It does have some curvature so a second order polynomial fits the data better. I would bet that the formula is not a polynomial, but I'm not going to track down the exact formula now. A polynomial approximation will server our purposes well enough.
Recovery
The result is that 607 Recovery will reduce cooldown times 1%.
I could also use a little more data here for over 2700. I don't have any Silvery Enchantments and didn't feel like buying any just for this test. However, the data is solid and I don't expect any differences as it gets higher.
*I will update this post with more curves as I gather more information*
*Feel Free to expand upon or correct information I post where necessary*
Power
The result is that 400 power will now add 1% damage.
Critical Strike
The result is that 697 Critical Strike will add 1% more Crit chance.
Armor Penetration
If anyone has data for Armor Penetration above 4800 I would appreciate access to it. I do not believe my projection above 4800 to be all that accurate. The Armor Penetration curve is not a straight line. It does have some curvature so a second order polynomial fits the data better. I would bet that the formula is not a polynomial, but I'm not going to track down the exact formula now. A polynomial approximation will server our purposes well enough.
Recovery
The result is that 607 Recovery will reduce cooldown times 1%.
I could also use a little more data here for over 2700. I don't have any Silvery Enchantments and didn't feel like buying any just for this test. However, the data is solid and I don't expect any differences as it gets higher.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by abaddon523 on
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The result is that 393.5 Defense will grant 1% Damage Resistance.
Lifesteal
The result is that 964 Lifesteal will grant 1% of damage returned as HP.
Regeneration
The result is that 700 Regeneration will result in a 1% increase in incoming healing and healing out of combat.
Deflection
The result is that 574 Deflect adds 1% deflection chance.
This thread will need to be stickied sooner rather than later.
Thanks yet again, abaddon.
I personally would have liked a new 'clean' system though, because this feels like yet another workaround instead of a solid 1-70 overhaul. And there is no way you can balance 60- and 61+ at the same time now. Boons are completely underpowered at 61+, but you can't just raise them to adjust to the new stat curve, because then they'd be OP at 60-. What about the massive LS a combat HR gets from feats? Doesn't it need to be tuned down? Doesn't the Warlock need more? What about powers, feats and other stuff that are relying on Crit? Reinforcement kits were downgraded, ability scores upgraded.
In my eyes each and every facet of balancing has to be looked at and rebalanced to fit the new system. And since I don't see signs they are trying to adjust at all, for now this feels awfully half-baked.
I'd find it incredibly odd that they would use two wildly different stat calculations for 1-60, and 61-70.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Got forbid they would actually do something about the stat inflation and decrease gap between pay to win players and the rest...
As far as i understood from the twitch stream and posts, they added modifiers to the new curves, so actually
60 will be one curve, 61-69 another and 70 is again another.
To be more correct I think there is a level based modifier that makes some sort of linear (or curved) transition from 60 curve to 70 curve at levels 61-69, so actually each level will have it's own curve that is somewhere in between those two (60,70) main curves.
power is getting a nerf, chilling presence needs to be adjusted.
crit is getting a nerf, remove eye of the storm.
defense is getting nerfed, tone down cw shield and gf one. 50%-80% too much.
what about removing both CW and TR critical boosts?
That's almost exactly what they've done. The curves for level 1-60 on preview are the same as on live. Once you cross to level 61 you transition to a new set of curves which appear, at this point, to be linear and significantly below the level 1-60 curves. And actually you don't "progress" back up to level 70. The slope of the lines actually gets less and less with every subsequent level. So the higher your level, the worse returns you get from your stats.
There are two exceptions to this: Armor penetration and HP. The curve for Armor Penetration (which I haven't done extensive data gathering on yet) actually gets a huge boost. And HP continues to grow as you level up.
The Devs stated reason for this massive overhaul is that new enemies are going to have significantly more Damage Resistance (they said up to 85-90% in the Livesteam). Giving back Armor Penetration will be how they expect Level 61+ characters to out-perform lower level characters in the new areas.
What they haven't said, but what I believe to really be going on, is that they've come to the correct conclusion that too many classes are just flat-out overpowered and the easiest solution to rein them all back in is to take the nerf-hammer to everyone simultaneously. I think that's a worthy goal. I just want to make sure it is done correctly. That's why I'm going to document the changes to the curves (whenever the server is back up) and let the rest of the community have a look and try and spot potential problems. For example, one mistake I think they've made is that they made the Movement curve completely useless. There's no way to get above ~3% which is not even noticeable and makes the stat pretty much pointless.
Let's all be honest though, some adjustment needs to happen. As a 22k CW I can run into the middle of 30+ enemies start spamming spells with no fear of dying and everything will be dead at my feet in 1 or 2 rotations. There's only so much the devs can do to make enemies tougher. They have to take back some of the massive power creep that has taken place. That's the only real way to restore anything resembling class roles and anything resembling challenging PvE content.
thats not gonna happen, pvp domination gives exp
Nope, lvl 60 domination doesn't reward you with exp atm.
I wonder, if this will finally introduce some kind of brackets like in SC II. A separated system for 60th and +60th?!
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that is not the point i guess
1 - the devs never turn back in their decisions.
2 - what more we talk here in this forum? "mimimi, there is a big difference between new and old players." well, what the new player see when enter in this game is a long-time player, absolutely accommodated with your set, passing the car in dungeons (yes, + because of reworks and experience than the gear... but nevermind).
therefore, the obvious consequence is that he is willing to sacrifice the current playerbase hoping to get a new one. ie the hypothetical new player who feel attracted by the new module, will find a playerbase that will be "beginning" too.
the sacrifice mentioned in the playerbase is obvious. some players are never satisfied in having a purely competitive class, other, below the level of competitiveness, expected a buff ... will come a general nerf in respost and not a expectative - or solid promise, i the situation will be better (or change).
1. That is a problem with CWs, not with everyone in general. I have nothing atm that can stand in the middle of 30 mobs and clear everything in 2 rotations.
2. Not everyone is at 22k. If they nerf everything to bring high end players down to earth, content will be way too difficult for the average player. New players will give up in frustration.
The correct solution is to make harder dungeons and harder enemy factions, gated behind high GS or whatever they're choosing to call it now.
Concerning 1.: I'm a 22k CW with BiS everything. Yet I'm the third best DPS class. A good SW and a good TR will beat me in dishing out damage just about every time. This isn't just a broken CW problem. If I deal such ridiculous damage that I never fear for my life you can be certain that those players don't either. I'm working on making a good TR and so far he's GS 17k, basically never dies, and can destroy PvE content the way a 10-year-old can destroy an anthill. Every DD people treat Epic Pirate King's lair like it's a track meet where you have only to swat some flies out of your way to reach the end chest. And that's true whether you have five CW's in your party or zero. The last few VT runs I've been a part of everyone completely ignored the caskets and just burned Valindra to a crisp before she could do anything remotely threatening. That's a problem. That's not how the game was intended to be played.
Concerning 2.: Considerations like this are exactly why I'm looking into this. What will happen when a new player without much in the way of gear crosses to level 61? Will the experience be extremely frustrating? That stuff needs to be addressed. But the community can't give the devs coherent feedback on the changes when we're not sure what they even are. That's the whole point of the thread. Find the flaws in their changes so we can suggest improvements.
That's not remotely true. I can point you to dozens of places where changes made to the CW class were scaled back, modified, or abandoned entirely based on documented, reasoned, coherent feedback from the community.
Not to put the cart before the horse, but I think they've gotten rid of diminishing returns in the curves themselves. They've made the curves a linear y=mx+b form (at least the ones I've looked into so far). So going from 1000 to 2000 crit will give the same crit chance increase as going from 0 to 1000 does. Something like Recovery will have diminishing returns because of the formula they use for cooldown times, but it won't be as bad as when the Recovery curve itself also had diminishing returns built in.
Basically, there will be value in getting stats other than power over 3k unlike before Mod 6. But at the same time the value of all of your stats (save Armor Penetration) will be less than before Mod 6.
that will be interesting to see, though atm there is not as much difference between 12k and 22k after 61, also the greens you get are on level of lvl 60 epics(quest reward weapon is about as good as legendary) so that might soften the blow
overall these changes is just what was needed(minus the proc based life steal), they probably left 1~60 as is simply so they dont have to rebalance all leveling content, they may do it in the future if these stat changes work as good as they seem to do now
in essence gear doesnt mean as much, but you never run in diminishing returns(at least as hard as now)
and they said that they want dungeon bosses to have 90% DR at the end of these stat curves(probably some mod 10++), so well have much more stats
Although you are aiming only CWs, it's precisely my point. Everything giving raw % is way more powerful under the new system.
Well, they won't tell us. That doesn't mean we won't know. This is a little charade we apparently have to engage in--where they can't tell us anything, but we're free to find out for ourselves and share the results with others while they don't interfere.
It probably has to do with company policies. They probably have to sign contracts that state they won't leak coding information as a condition of employment, or something along those lines; and stat curves probably qualify as coding information. So they can't tell us, but probably don't care if we figure it out for ourselves. After all, it's not like I could take their stat curve equations and launch my own MMO and get rich off the profits with that information alone.
I also am concerned about this. How do you balance the 100% crit of a TR from stealth? Do you balance tr from the stealth based play (sab) or from the non stealth based play (scoundrel) -- and what happens if a person plays the path non typical? I am curious if they have even considered this aspects of it.
* cw can be aways the max expression of the pve problems but, this time, he is not alone.
the main problem is this big area of dots instead to a melee dps and a range bursts rotation OR When the control Become slow / freeze / daze enemies in all the extremes of stages instead to "pass the enemy in the point b to the point C". dont let forget that hyper super mega feets inaugurated to "balance gwfs" instead to fix first some basic problems.
back in time is, after fix all the broken cw feets, and do to other classes a small proportion of what is giving in theses modules, launch hard version to the same dungeons if you have gear/skill to try this. nothing more.
anyway. what can happens is the game found a new "vibe" like this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about "if you hit enemies in your back, have a effect x".
i think they mentioned 36% on stream, considering ArP is easiest stat to gain and many classes get it from stats its not so far from where we are now
the 90% i mentioned is probably a year or 2 away