Hmmm... a lot to ponder in this thread.....not sure where to begin. Perhaps making all encouters and at-wills do only 10% of there standard damage would be better so that we can actually play through a game and not be an instant kill. Then go from there on 'class balancing' as well as have more stringent match making process that matches based on the most vital stats such as power, armor pen, defense, deflect as well as matching classes better. One team has 1 DC, 2 CW, and 2 TR the other team has the exact same.
I think if our devs were given the resources and creative flexibility of the wow devs we would be quite happy with neverwinter pvp.
Considering every trip to their forums I've ever made, the forums were full of nerf X rage threads just like ours, I don't think they even managed it. Because you can't balance pvp and pve in the same game.
I want honest opinions from players about if pvp will ever be fixed. By fixed I mean will they fix matchmaking so you fight/team with people of roughly the same gearscore? That is the single worst problem with level 60 pvp at the moment. Class balance issues and everything are secondary.
I no longer enjoy the pve elements of the game. In fact I hate that part of the game. But I enjoy the pvp gameplay. Pvp however, seems to be a sidenote to this game. Which is ok. But really the people who pretty much "only pvp" and grind pve for the sake of pvp...are they simply in the wrong game?
Level 10-59 pvp is vastly more competitive, has more parity among players, than level 60 pvp. With level 60 gearscores ranging from 5k to 25k, level 60 pvp is pretty exactly what level 10-59 pvp would be if they did not separate lvls 10-59 into five brackets according to level.
You can only level so many characters to 60, get to level 60 pvp, decide you don't want to marry the game (spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours grinding pve for boons and so on) in order to achieve 18k+ gs to be competitive.
People do this (continually level new characters) hoping that eventually they will fix level 60 pvp. But the devs have said there are no big pvp plans on the horizon, and the situation only gets worse and worse and worse. Crushing low gs players 9 out of 20 matches and having one competitive match is no more fun than being crushed 9 out of 10 matches and having that one competitive match.
GS did not used to matter as much as it does now, when the only thing around 20k that you would see is a geared gf conq spec with a full shield meter, when 15k meant you could compete. 5k gs differential is not impossible to overcome. 10-15k gs differential should not even be in the same bracket. Seriously.
So, does anyone think they will fix pvp in the next few months?
they should add something like "elo"were u find in games like league of legends or dota, pretty simple. the more you pvp, the harder opponents u face. so the ppl doing pvp every day are going to be in the higher match brackets due to their skill/GS. you could make the pvp titles the ranking system, so if you want to have rank invincible overlord u have to pvp enough and earn the rank and will make it harder for pvpers to get to high ranks but also more fun
Hmmm... a lot to ponder in this thread.....not sure where to begin. Perhaps making all encouters and at-wills do only 10% of there standard damage would be better so that we can actually play through a game and not be an instant kill. Then go from there on 'class balancing' as well as have more stringent match making process that matches based on the most vital stats such as power, armor pen, defense, deflect as well as matching classes better. One team has 1 DC, 2 CW, and 2 TR the other team has the exact same.
No dmg and healing reduction by 90%.
Look what happened to RIFT pvp.
They reduced all dmg and healing by 85% and removed PVP gear from the game, so now if there are 2 or more healer in one group then they can't be killed. Back then a year ago I was hunting healers in that game from 3-4 hits I could take them down(was satisfying) and I was dead from the same ammount too, but now I can't deal any dmg, also if I target a healer like 10 palyer will focus me to protect the guy, which is 2 mins of boring fighting because of this dmg reduction.
If they did not ruin it I would be still playing that game and not this.
However CC system could take some rework, just like the dodging.
No more CC lock and avoid dmg when dodging.
they should add something like "elo"were u find in games like league of legends or dota, pretty simple. the more you pvp, the harder opponents u face. so the ppl doing pvp every day are going to be in the higher match brackets due to their skill/GS. you could make the pvp titles the ranking system, so if you want to have rank invincible overlord u have to pvp enough and earn the rank and will make it harder for pvpers to get to high ranks but also more fun
News flash...there's already an ELO system in place. However, that isn't without its own flaws.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
if there is then it is not working properly, or atleast i dont seem to notice the elo too much :S, the match making needs to be more defined though imo cuz currently its not that great of a elo system tho
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited January 2015
its the same story for over many months again and again. pvp population declining and declining, cryptic do nothing or make things worse and when somebody ask they say there is not enough people play pvpp, so its not worth do something with it. and now you have nowaday.... only solution to start improving pvp is make longer queue times for better matchmaking. at least a bit. otherwise there is no hope ....
I want honest opinions from players about if pvp will ever be fixed. By fixed I mean will they fix matchmaking so you fight/team with people of roughly the same gearscore? That is the single worst problem with level 60 pvp at the moment. Class balance issues and everything are secondary.
I would argue the worst problem in pvp is stuns.
Game need diminishing returns on stuns. Which has been a concept and widely used in mmorpgs for the last 8 years. It solves TONS of balance issues.
In fact, I think they have created more work by not having diminishing returns on stuns. Bunch of quick fixes like halving hunter roots on players. Then not halving them with rogues.
In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds your dead.
Gear score would still be a bit of an issue but not as much. In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds or back to back against same GS you wont die. You get CC against someone double your GS your dead. Dminishing returns means you still get CC but for not as long so you can then dodge, run, or kite - it gives you the opportunity to use some tactics against your stronger foe.
Biggest problem with CC is its so annoying.
In a measure of fun - CC decreases fun more than Gear score decreases fun.
there is a tipping point with gear score and its when the enemy is so strong that if they stand still - you can't even kill them. But that is an issue with how game mechanics work. ie: in combat regeneration, lifesteal, etc...
I no longer enjoy the pve elements of the game. In fact I hate that part of the game. But I enjoy the pvp gameplay. Pvp however, seems to be a sidenote to this game. Which is ok. But really the people who pretty much "only pvp" and grind pve for the sake of pvp...are they simply in the wrong game?
Wrong game? no.
That's what the game is. Or rather its a casual mmorpg. You can grind if you want to. Or you can skip the grind with Zen.
If you take away gear then you just have a skill based game like a first person shooter.
The whole point of having an opponent with better stats and better gear is so that its a challenge to beat them.
Level 10-59 pvp is vastly more competitive, has more parity among players, than level 60 pvp. With level 60 gearscores ranging from 5k to 25k, level 60 pvp is pretty exactly what level 10-59 pvp would be if they did not separate lvls 10-59 into five brackets according to level.
yes it is alot of fun to play low level pvp. I do.
People do this (continually level new characters) hoping that eventually they will fix level 60 pvp. But the devs have said there are no big pvp plans on the horizon, and the situation only gets worse and worse and worse. Crushing low gs players 9 out of 20 matches and having one competitive match is no more fun than being crushed 9 out of 10 matches and having that one competitive match.
Do you have a source of the devs saying no big pvp plans?
And what does 'big' even mean. Example, having a regular pvp que and an epic pvp que system could fix alot of issues with gs pvp. It literally is a small addition to the game, easy to program and implement(already there for pve dungeons), so technically a small change.
I would make a post and suggeest a few changes to pvp that are easy to implement but i don't see a suggestion forum on here.
if there is then it is not working properly, or atleast i dont seem to notice the elo too much :S, the match making needs to be more defined though imo cuz currently its not that great of a elo system tho
I don't think that there are enough people PvPing for ELO to work--in a way where people wouldn't have wait extremely long times to get into a match.
Perhaps they could just give us a choice to que and get in quick, or que and wait, but get in with people of equal ELO.
I still think the big surprise is that they will standardized player's gear in PvP, that would make so many people angry, but I don't think that they would care. Yes I know, drow set in on PTR but, we've been waiting months for it now.
they should add more maps too! that would be very fun to pvp on a new map
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
The answer to the pvp dilemma is arenas. Pic 4 mates, go to the arena menu and challenge other group if they accept you fight if they nuke you because they have tons of GS you challenge another team until you find and adequate match
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
The answer to the pvp dilemma is arenas. Pic 4 mates, go to the arena menu and challenge other group if they accept you fight if they nuke you because they have tons of GS you challenge another team until you find and adequate match
that does seem to be how quite a few people do when they get 24k gear scores. team with other 24k gear scores 'hunting for an adequate match' yet in the process smash thru lower gear scores hitting invincible overlord in the process.
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
Umm are you seriously calling the bridges an exploit..........lol
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
Yeah, the rare times I do PvP and I see someone on a bridge or pillar, I laugh at them and just run out of their line of sight or range. I mean, I rarely even PvP any it's a no brainer to me that those who go up there are a) wasting the time and effort of their team and b) making a win easier for the opposing team.
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
Are you kidding? I've seen CWs go up there and just rain down death from above.
Please consider that not everyone who reads your advice is in the 20k++++++ club.
My Archery HR gets the most mileage out of Aimed Shot, and it's really hard to cast Aimed Shot while standing on a node. Much better to do so from a pillar or bridge.
I think that if you are a squishy range character and you want to be helpful for your team, standing on the pillar or bridge is better than standing on a node and getting one-shot by a TR's lashing blade.
Are you kidding? I've seen CWs go up there and just rain down death from above.
Please consider that not everyone who reads your advice is in the 20k++++++ club.
My Archery HR gets the most mileage out of Aimed Shot, and it's really hard to cast Aimed Shot while standing on a node. Much better to do so from a pillar or bridge.
I think that if you are a squishy range character and you want to be helpful for your team, standing on the pillar or bridge is better than standing on a node and getting one-shot by a TR's lashing blade.
better to die on the node for after one second and have it contested for that long. If you aren't on a node, you might as well be afk.
Are you kidding? I've seen CWs go up there and just rain down death from above.
Please consider that not everyone who reads your advice is in the 20k++++++ club.
My Archery HR gets the most mileage out of Aimed Shot, and it's really hard to cast Aimed Shot while standing on a node. Much better to do so from a pillar or bridge.
I think that if you are a squishy range character and you want to be helpful for your team, standing on the pillar or bridge is better than standing on a node and getting one-shot by a TR's lashing blade.
Archery HR in PVP?
Son, I've got sum bad news.
At least buff up your team mates with Stag Heart (interracts with many class feats due to temp HP) or Oak Skin. You will provide nothing for the team with your 5K Aimed Shots (assuming the opposite team aren't 9K GS but equally geared and has tenacity).
I hate seeing Archery people trying to snipe from distance and doing mediocre DPS while fighting off node, it contributes nothing. But I actually PM people saying "Thanks for using Stag Heart/Oak Skin" when I see them using it. So if you want to be at least a little useful, slot one of these, then you can die over and over again and I wouldn't even mind.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I would argue the worst problem in pvp is stuns.
Game need diminishing returns on stuns. Which has been a concept and widely used in mmorpgs for the last 8 years. It solves TONS of balance issues.
In fact, I think they have created more work by not having diminishing returns on stuns. Bunch of quick fixes like halving hunter roots on players. Then not halving them with rogues.
In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds your dead.
Gear score would still be a bit of an issue but not as much. In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds or back to back against same GS you wont die. You get CC against someone double your GS your dead. Dminishing returns means you still get CC but for not as long so you can then dodge, run, or kite - it gives you the opportunity to use some tactics against your stronger foe.
Biggest problem with CC is its so annoying.
In a measure of fun - CC decreases fun more than Gear score decreases fun.
there is a tipping point with gear score and its when the enemy is so strong that if they stand still - you can't even kill them. But that is an issue with how game mechanics work. ie: in combat regeneration, lifesteal, etc...
Wrong game? no.
That's what the game is. Or rather its a casual mmorpg. You can grind if you want to. Or you can skip the grind with Zen.
If you take away gear then you just have a skill based game like a first person shooter.
The whole point of having an opponent with better stats and better gear is so that its a challenge to beat them.
yes it is alot of fun to play low level pvp. I do.
Do you have a source of the devs saying no big pvp plans?
And what does 'big' even mean. Example, having a regular pvp que and an epic pvp que system could fix alot of issues with gs pvp. It literally is a small addition to the game, easy to program and implement(already there for pve dungeons), so technically a small change.
I would make a post and suggeest a few changes to pvp that are easy to implement but i don't see a suggestion forum on here.
Indeed. We need a Geneva convention on smoke bombs - that would make it less 'toxic'
I have to honestly say that my opinion is "evolving" on this issue. Granted, I play a fotm class and I pay to avoid grind as much as I can without going crazy. I have probably played about 200 matches in the past 10 days or so since I got my fotm character to 60, and at 13k (yes only 13k) I am at any given time between pages 220 and 320 on the leaderboard. This SOLELY through pugging alone. I can win against a horrible team and lose pages or lose against a great team and gain pages, so ya the elo is working. I am grinding my dr and wod boons, am picking up my pvp and gg boons, will just buy my shar boons and will soon be into iwd boons. Soon also I will have enough glory/seals for a full profound set but will wait to see whats up with the drow set first. I had to adjust how I play my character in pvp. I am enjoying myself again with this game. A bad pug team I can solo most of that team and kill them, but I hate that because I lose pages on the board even with a win. Sometimes I end up as the fifth guy on an in house pvp guild premade and THAT is a lot of fun!
With real PARITY and no reliance on fotm builds to do well, the pvp in this game would be awesome and would attract a lot of new players. As it is now, the game is like a dirty habit- I enjoy it sometimes but really am too embarrassed to suggest it to gamer friends as the game has a wretched reputation among pvp games. PWE games in general do. Neverwinter could change all that. But so far it is not.
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
It isn't an exploit it is a feature of the map. You can have an advantage fighting from a bridge but you are not contesting a node as you do so, and the game being domination, that style of play is fail.
Lol the only time i use that pillar is when the node is camped like hell so I can just drop down from bellow and surprise them :DD
In pugs it can be fun on the hotenow map to run up there and drop through the hole onto 2 in stealth and one shot sometone, but in a serious premade vs premade teamates are gonna be like, "wtf are you doing".
Comments
Since these are the very things that plagues our PvP scene, perhaps our Devs can take some notes from the interview.
I think if our devs were given the resources and creative flexibility of the wow devs we would be quite happy with neverwinter pvp.
Considering every trip to their forums I've ever made, the forums were full of nerf X rage threads just like ours, I don't think they even managed it. Because you can't balance pvp and pve in the same game.
No dmg and healing reduction by 90%.
Look what happened to RIFT pvp.
They reduced all dmg and healing by 85% and removed PVP gear from the game, so now if there are 2 or more healer in one group then they can't be killed. Back then a year ago I was hunting healers in that game from 3-4 hits I could take them down(was satisfying) and I was dead from the same ammount too, but now I can't deal any dmg, also if I target a healer like 10 palyer will focus me to protect the guy, which is 2 mins of boring fighting because of this dmg reduction.
If they did not ruin it I would be still playing that game and not this.
However CC system could take some rework, just like the dodging.
No more CC lock and avoid dmg when dodging.
News flash...there's already an ELO system in place. However, that isn't without its own flaws.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I would argue the worst problem in pvp is stuns.
Game need diminishing returns on stuns. Which has been a concept and widely used in mmorpgs for the last 8 years. It solves TONS of balance issues.
In fact, I think they have created more work by not having diminishing returns on stuns. Bunch of quick fixes like halving hunter roots on players. Then not halving them with rogues.
In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds your dead.
Gear score would still be a bit of an issue but not as much. In pvp you get CC for 3 seconds or back to back against same GS you wont die. You get CC against someone double your GS your dead. Dminishing returns means you still get CC but for not as long so you can then dodge, run, or kite - it gives you the opportunity to use some tactics against your stronger foe.
Biggest problem with CC is its so annoying.
In a measure of fun - CC decreases fun more than Gear score decreases fun.
there is a tipping point with gear score and its when the enemy is so strong that if they stand still - you can't even kill them. But that is an issue with how game mechanics work. ie: in combat regeneration, lifesteal, etc...
Wrong game? no.
That's what the game is. Or rather its a casual mmorpg. You can grind if you want to. Or you can skip the grind with Zen.
If you take away gear then you just have a skill based game like a first person shooter.
The whole point of having an opponent with better stats and better gear is so that its a challenge to beat them.
yes it is alot of fun to play low level pvp. I do.
Do you have a source of the devs saying no big pvp plans?
And what does 'big' even mean. Example, having a regular pvp que and an epic pvp que system could fix alot of issues with gs pvp. It literally is a small addition to the game, easy to program and implement(already there for pve dungeons), so technically a small change.
I would make a post and suggeest a few changes to pvp that are easy to implement but i don't see a suggestion forum on here.
Indeed. We need a Geneva convention on smoke bombs - that would make it less 'toxic'
I don't think that there are enough people PvPing for ELO to work--in a way where people wouldn't have wait extremely long times to get into a match.
Perhaps they could just give us a choice to que and get in quick, or que and wait, but get in with people of equal ELO.
I still think the big surprise is that they will standardized player's gear in PvP, that would make so many people angry, but I don't think that they would care. Yes I know, drow set in on PTR but, we've been waiting months for it now.
yea some new maps for pvp would be awesome especially ones that don't have exploits built in like the pillars and areas at the very top where you can have a ranged character hanging out barraging people with damage but never really taking any.
that does seem to be how quite a few people do when they get 24k gear scores. team with other 24k gear scores 'hunting for an adequate match' yet in the process smash thru lower gear scores hitting invincible overlord in the process.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Not sure if srs.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Please consider that not everyone who reads your advice is in the 20k++++++ club.
My Archery HR gets the most mileage out of Aimed Shot, and it's really hard to cast Aimed Shot while standing on a node. Much better to do so from a pillar or bridge.
I think that if you are a squishy range character and you want to be helpful for your team, standing on the pillar or bridge is better than standing on a node and getting one-shot by a TR's lashing blade.
Archery HR in PVP?
Son, I've got sum bad news.
At least buff up your team mates with Stag Heart (interracts with many class feats due to temp HP) or Oak Skin. You will provide nothing for the team with your 5K Aimed Shots (assuming the opposite team aren't 9K GS but equally geared and has tenacity).
I hate seeing Archery people trying to snipe from distance and doing mediocre DPS while fighting off node, it contributes nothing. But I actually PM people saying "Thanks for using Stag Heart/Oak Skin" when I see them using it. So if you want to be at least a little useful, slot one of these, then you can die over and over again and I wouldn't even mind.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I have to honestly say that my opinion is "evolving" on this issue. Granted, I play a fotm class and I pay to avoid grind as much as I can without going crazy. I have probably played about 200 matches in the past 10 days or so since I got my fotm character to 60, and at 13k (yes only 13k) I am at any given time between pages 220 and 320 on the leaderboard. This SOLELY through pugging alone. I can win against a horrible team and lose pages or lose against a great team and gain pages, so ya the elo is working. I am grinding my dr and wod boons, am picking up my pvp and gg boons, will just buy my shar boons and will soon be into iwd boons. Soon also I will have enough glory/seals for a full profound set but will wait to see whats up with the drow set first. I had to adjust how I play my character in pvp. I am enjoying myself again with this game. A bad pug team I can solo most of that team and kill them, but I hate that because I lose pages on the board even with a win. Sometimes I end up as the fifth guy on an in house pvp guild premade and THAT is a lot of fun!
With real PARITY and no reliance on fotm builds to do well, the pvp in this game would be awesome and would attract a lot of new players. As it is now, the game is like a dirty habit- I enjoy it sometimes but really am too embarrassed to suggest it to gamer friends as the game has a wretched reputation among pvp games. PWE games in general do. Neverwinter could change all that. But so far it is not.
In pugs it can be fun on the hotenow map to run up there and drop through the hole onto 2 in stealth and one shot sometone, but in a serious premade vs premade teamates are gonna be like, "wtf are you doing".
Now that we've got the trollish advice out of the way for Archery HR, any real advice?
And if your only advice is going to be "use Thorn Ward and Split the Sky" then it doesn't matter if I stand on or off the node, does it?