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Honest question: Will they fix pvp?
overdriver13
Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
I want honest opinions from players about if pvp will ever be fixed. By fixed I mean will they fix matchmaking so you fight/team with people of roughly the same gearscore? That is the single worst problem with level 60 pvp at the moment. Class balance issues and everything are secondary.
I no longer enjoy the pve elements of the game. In fact I hate that part of the game. But I enjoy the pvp gameplay. Pvp however, seems to be a sidenote to this game. Which is ok. But really the people who pretty much "only pvp" and grind pve for the sake of pvp...are they simply in the wrong game?
Level 10-59 pvp is vastly more competitive, has more parity among players, than level 60 pvp. With level 60 gearscores ranging from 5k to 25k, level 60 pvp is pretty exactly what level 10-59 pvp would be if they did not separate lvls 10-59 into five brackets according to level.
You can only level so many characters to 60, get to level 60 pvp, decide you don't want to marry the game (spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours grinding pve for boons and so on) in order to achieve 18k+ gs to be competitive.
People do this (continually level new characters) hoping that eventually they will fix level 60 pvp. But the devs have said there are no big pvp plans on the horizon, and the situation only gets worse and worse and worse. Crushing low gs players 9 out of 20 matches and having one competitive match is no more fun than being crushed 9 out of 10 matches and having that one competitive match.
GS did not used to matter as much as it does now, when the only thing around 20k that you would see is a geared gf conq spec with a full shield meter, when 15k meant you could compete. 5k gs differential is not impossible to overcome. 10-15k gs differential should not even be in the same bracket. Seriously.
So, does anyone think they will fix pvp in the next few months?
I no longer enjoy the pve elements of the game. In fact I hate that part of the game. But I enjoy the pvp gameplay. Pvp however, seems to be a sidenote to this game. Which is ok. But really the people who pretty much "only pvp" and grind pve for the sake of pvp...are they simply in the wrong game?
Level 10-59 pvp is vastly more competitive, has more parity among players, than level 60 pvp. With level 60 gearscores ranging from 5k to 25k, level 60 pvp is pretty exactly what level 10-59 pvp would be if they did not separate lvls 10-59 into five brackets according to level.
You can only level so many characters to 60, get to level 60 pvp, decide you don't want to marry the game (spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours grinding pve for boons and so on) in order to achieve 18k+ gs to be competitive.
People do this (continually level new characters) hoping that eventually they will fix level 60 pvp. But the devs have said there are no big pvp plans on the horizon, and the situation only gets worse and worse and worse. Crushing low gs players 9 out of 20 matches and having one competitive match is no more fun than being crushed 9 out of 10 matches and having that one competitive match.
GS did not used to matter as much as it does now, when the only thing around 20k that you would see is a geared gf conq spec with a full shield meter, when 15k meant you could compete. 5k gs differential is not impossible to overcome. 10-15k gs differential should not even be in the same bracket. Seriously.
So, does anyone think they will fix pvp in the next few months?
Post edited by overdriver13 on
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Even if some improvements come, it will not be a solid, competitive, balanced environment. It just isn't that game.
Then why do you play a game that revolves around elves and wizards?
I don't understand why people who don't like dungeons and don't like dragons are playing a game BASED on dungeons and dragons.
It's like someone who is allergic to fish going to a seafood restaurant. WHY???
they claim theres not enough ppl playing to split queue, at least thats what they say
imho they should do some up to 16k~17k GS queue and make it impossible to switch gear after joining
or simply add room system to PvP
i think they said there will be some stuff for PvP in mod6
Read the original post. I like well done high fantasy like grr martin and tolkein. The quality of dnd can be no greater than the dm or game designer. Neverwinter is pastiche as far as this genre goes, but quality aside, it is also an issue of quantity. Not just poor voice acting coming from poorly rendered characters within an incredibly mediocre context of story and atmosphere, but just HOW MUCH of that you have to endure in the course of grinding.
They offer a lot of excuses, but ultimately it is their responsibility to put out a competitive product. Neverwinter pvp is the absolute worst pvp of any mmo in its generation. It is not "if more people played pvp they would fix pvp" it is "if they would fix pvp, more people would play it."
All of the negative criticism of neverwinter aside, the single great strength of this game is how good it is as an action combat game. Any game whos only real strength is action-combat needs to focus a lot on pvp or ultimately fail miserably.
I have played since beta, and have watched que times get longer and longer and longer.
i have been goofing around on a 14K alt with low ELO, solo quing, and it takes 5-10 minutes to get in...And it is against people all 20k+, yesterday i hit a whole 24K + team after waiting 10 mins, primetime..this tells me that there are not enough people pvping to ever split the que.
1 - Leave TRs as they are
2 - Leave DCs as they are
3 - Leave CWs as they are
4 - Roll GFs back to either Mod 1 or Mod 4 (before Glyphs and the KV trolls ruined them)
5 - Roll GWFs back to Mod 3, with the Roar fix though.
6 - Roll HRs back to Mod 4
7 - Pray for the SW
I still believe it is a vicious circle.
People no longer queue because bracketing was never in place in the first place. Why queue for PVP now when you know your 14k alt is gonna have train run on it by a crew of 24kers? People are scared of PVP because of past experiences.
I am so glad that people like you don't get to do any jobs on MMO balance and are only being thrown at designing rogue classes.
i actually think thestaggy is on to something
if you think about it, his point is mostly valid
tr/dc/cw are currently op because the other classes have been nerfed or left in the dust (sw/gwf)
before the changes to tr/dc/cw, you had gfs/gwf/hr being OP, in their respective modules, with the other classes being underpowered (tr/dc/cw)
it's pretty insane to think that each mod has made one or two classes incredibly op, with the next mod or two dialing back to square one, albeit changing the class's gameplay
so, while i don't think everyone will be "one shotting" each other, i do think, with all those reverts (as impossible and unlikely as it is, they'd have undo code or recode everything back), on top of these "changes", i think they should STILL boost tenacity and remove piercing and damage that ignores all defenses *cough* SE *cough*
tl;dr - classes were op once because the other classes weren't, and so, they were nerfed because of this, they need to break the cycle, since they will probably nerf dc/tr/cw back to the ground and make gf/gwf/hr/sw OP, it's a terribly vicious cycle they're currently in
this is exactly my point
all this current matchmaking system is doing right now is scaring players away from PVP
because believe me, the action combat in this game is AMAZING
it's really a shame that so many people are missing out because of the simple sad fact that matches between 24ks and 12ks happen....when they shouldn't.....but they do.....because of the lack of "pvp population"....and it's lacking because of the same reason people don't want to join.....vicious, vicious cycle
idk how many times it's been said, joining a match against a team or a few players that double your GS is just NOT fun.....NOT FUN AT ALL
it would be amazing if they added pvp rooms, or foundry pvp, or even gear neutral pvp....but, the latter would probably cause revenue to come down from zen
Oh calm down. It is quite clear that incremental changes and balances are not the MO here, so may as well leave everyone at godmode. Alongside that you could also introduce a boost to tenacity, fix some of the silly double/OP procs on certain feats, maintain the Unstoppable disparity between Destroyers and Sents and get rid of that 100% crit in stealth.
If a game ever wants to have class balance, then PvP is a must. That's the only way to gather true feedback for balancing. For some that have given up on balancing the most common and lamest excuse they tend to give is "the game is PvE". Yet class OPness spillover into PvE as much as PvP. Don't ever forget that.
Except what is needed for pve and pvp balance can be polar opposites. For instance TR's are perfect for pve atm. That is why you never should try to balance both as one thing. Each power needs separate numbers and sometimes effects in pvp and pve. As this rarely happens my personal view is that games need to just decide if they are pvp or pve and never attempt the other.
Yes, but a class can be OP in one mode and not OP in another. Take for example the CW 2 or 3 mods ago, CW has always been either at the top or darn well near it in PVE and yet some times it is not there in PVP. In pve you could have called it, "OP" back then and in PVP you could call it, "balanced". Just because a class performs well in one game type means it will perform well in the other and PVP is not the be all, end all way of properly balancing classes. Classes can be perfectly balanced in PVE whilst being unbalanced in PVP and the same is true in reverse, so don't just jump to the conclusion that, "without pvp, classes will never be balanced in this game."
because i have all 7 classes at 60 and play all of them in pvp with the same gear scores almost
i've played pvp heavily in other games, i'm pretty good at learning weakness/strengths, especially when i play all the classes
i don't need to explain why or how they're OP, or have been OP, look at the many many threads surrounding you
if you can honestly sit there and try to say they're NOT op, then you don't play any of the other classes
You can quote me on that.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
For ItC, I never really understood the function of it. It's called Impossible to CATCH, not Impossible to HIT. It's supposed to be a panic button, in a sense, and TRs use it to evade damage/control. It's also one of the main reasons why TRs choose MI over WK- that and SE. I would expect ItC to give a huge move speed bonus when activated and a modest amount of damage reduction that scales to the amount of life missing (similar to Unstoppable in a sense), maybe 15-30% or even 25-50% would be fine. Either that or no damage resist and CC resist instead. Maybe not even 100% control resist- maybe just 50% for half duration. Still effective. Guaranteed deflection should be the only pro to breaking stealth. I won't say that ItC is like enabling god mode- more like demigod mode- but it does entirely too much and needs reworked a bit.
Rework ItC. Change the crit bonus value in stealth. Leave SE alone. Also, the Dazes from Scoundrel seem to be a little... long, especially on players. Dial that daze duration back a bit to prevent some ridiculous stun locks and I think the TR would still be a huge asset to any team but not an instant-win character if they're well-geared.
Right now I think all classes are sitting pretty well except TR and SW. I play TR, and when I see a SW/GWF/GF I think "easy kill" because they can't dodge SE. GFs can block it- 4k SE crits are disappointing- so you daze them first. GWF and SW... At least GWF can tank. SWs just plain suck in PvP because they can't avoid damage and aren't tanky enough to take it. However, by incorporating some of those changes (no guaranteed crits), SE hurts but it won't be an instant-kill button in stealth. Now it all comes down to the SW needing some love (mainly something for survivability) and PvP becomes a little more competitive.
Just my opinion, but it seems a little more intuitive than "TRs are OP- NERF!"
I think matchmaking problems far outweigh "op tr" problems.
Sometimes it's impossible to fight the op/huge gs gap team, especially one side all dps and the other side has 1 or 2 dc.
I cant understand how the forum can be full of "nerf class" threads instead of "freakin fix this game or im out" threads.
True balance isn't necessary, just parity. Every team when going into a domination match should have a fighting chance to win, almost every time. But they don't. The chance to win even if all the players play to their full potential, is at best 50/50 due to poor matchmaking.
50/50 sounds like fairly phenomenal matchmaking.
I don't disagree with much of this but GF most definitely needs attention along with SW. GWF could use a little love also but not as much as sw or gf.