aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited January 2015
Striker is our secondary role.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited January 2015
Doesn't seem very secondary from the damage output.
By the way this also applies to TRs with SoD now, possibly even in much higher degree. There is no way a non executioner TR will ever reach that level of damage output.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited January 2015
As so many have just recently said, we don't do great single target damage, compared to some other classes.
As our main role is to control, shard is even better as stuns for longer.
Who cares about little less damage if mobs cannot attack us because of shard, then we can do even more damage from damage–buffed Steal Time, that Overall makes us even better damage.
As our main role is to control, shard is even better as stuns for longer.
Who cares about little less damage if mobs cannot attack us because of shard, then we can do even more damage from damage–buffed Steal Time, that Overall makes us even better damage.
In summary, combo Shard then Steal Time makes now more damage than Shard then Steal Time before.
Shard is not better. It may prone but without the damage to kill foes it makes things worse the knockback it does. Now you give them a papercut with shard and scatter them. Run something like IT, ST, CoI, SS. No shard, no scattered mobs, everyone is happy. Any move that does a microscopic knockback and doesn't kill the mob is bad option to use.
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beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
edited January 2015
No damage? Scattered? Are we talking about the same spell?
Its pure damage + prone, so both control and damage that makes the adds to be in one place, so any other AoE skill will impact them all, while without shard, they will just run around and killing them will take much longer.
Maybe you just got offended that devs nerfed its damage and you came up with the state that shard is no longer BiS, cause of it got "damage nerfed" (while it`s control is buffed aswell).
BTW When I run with some PUG/LFG CW that does not use shard, it usually takes longer as with much decreased control, he cannot survive and with aggro, begins running away, making 2nd group of adds so it takes about 2 times longer to kill them.
I can`t imagine about running without shard nowadays, too much control and too much damage.
FtF > IT > Shard > ST > FI. And nobody will even attack you if you are skilled enough.
If you run the 2nd paragon, you have much worse daily and can cast it much less frequently, but still can control for over 80% of the time.
Nobody wants to run after every add to kill them alone, this is what CW role is. To control.
You're very, very off here. At least speaking for groups >13k GS and having some very basic understanding of the game. What you say might have been a solid approach some mods ago but nowadays this is just sub optimal. One CW with CoI(tab), IT, ST, OF (Sing/FI in special cases) can provide all the control you'll ever need. Even the formerly meta with feated Sudden Storm instantly freezing enemies is outdated.
Edit: Just to get things straight. I don't want to tell you how to play. At all. If you like playing that way and your party members don't ahve issues with scattered mobs (yes they will be scattered. Unless you cast IF after each shard hit) - by any means go for it. Just be aware that shard's severe damage reduction and mostly unacceptable scattering are nothing made up by some poster above but a sad fact.
And to that point, the paingiver says nothing about DPS, only total damage done.
People think it's the same thing. :rolleyes:
is the same thing; no games here: "paingiver" is the guy that, hypothetically, would be able to clear a room faster, that is, would be less exposed to danger or make the party less exposed to the danger. in fact, the record of "damage taken" is fake, because, the point about defence is: Meanwhile they have been exposed to danger, who was the Person responsible for the survival of the group? the record of damage taken?
of course, dont forget: damage=defence, but defense is not = damage.
obviously Iam not speak about 'fake damages " like executioner styles. If you have the best offensive capability and the best of the one spectrum of a defensive capability, my friend, your class is very, very unbalanced. this is not theoretical: it is the history of the game. now is too late for that, but... my god, how much relativism people need to justify a obscenity? oh, but and the bosses spamming adds? dont need a single target? yeah... yeah...
i seriously dont get why cws say they lack single target.
seriously let's talk about it.
i m not that good at english and for the sake of summarizing i will going on for points:
1) storm spell proc from every source of damage, it's subjected to buffs/debuffs and multiplier such as vorpal, power, chilling presence.
for example a pvp cw (with no stone and about 6k power ) can crit up to 14k to my full pvp tenacity HR with no internal cooldown.
2) CW base damages are the highest upon all classes
3) CW cooldowns are the lowest upon all classes.
4) CW has 1 more encounter slot.
5) a way common renegade CW ( ray of enfeeblement feated ) debuffs for 50% increased damages while using one of their best single target encounter.
6) ray of frost is probably the best at will in game ( 100% sure in pvp, probably slightly less desiderable in pve compared to duelist flurry)
so...for the mentioned reasons i really dont feel like CWs lack single target damages
edit: 7) they have a feat to deal 30% increased single target damages.
0
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
i seriously dont get why cws say they lack single target.
Because they can't do as much damage as an Executioner TR spamming Duelist's Flurry. But don't worry, I'm sure they will whine enough to get this "fixed" in next mod.
am not a top cw, but lets go. the point of being a single target is mechanically be conducive to that.
the overall performance in pve, falls if you set up your class to be a single target. say that the single target of cw is weak is a demagogy , but you can not optimize the cw for single target without sacrificing their basic functions.
On the other hand, a debuff for a cc class is bizarre. iam forget that. top damage/best cc and part of the party damage IS cw damage?
is so sad... players of this class should have shame to suggest nerfs for other classes.
to have a good single target perfomance, cw needs reduce your overall performance. ie "sacrifice". however, this sacrifice brings a good result .
I dont say anything about cw be top in single target too (although this single target debuff is very unbalanced).
2 - There is an obvious moral difference between ask nerfs to unbalanced classes, ask for nerfs to comparative proposes (i do a lot of it. ) and ask for nerfs to sustain a status quo.
for example, during m3, came a cw reports an extra amount of 13% in destroyer damage, but in this time, cw had feets / class features that individually gave 3/4 more bonus than it should. what do you expect?
I'm not saying that every cw player is a **** (2 of my best game friends are main cws) but this class have a strange "sex appeal" to certain public.
but the point of the entire thread is: cw damage come to passives. "but shard" old shard damage is broken. "but cw have low defense", no; have the best cc+range. "cw have low single target". no. that is the cw. the total picture.
personally, i think is too late to fix the game through cw. but if the rumor of life steal is true, so partys of cw. again, will dominated the game instead of bringing balance. the experience seens dont bring solutions for devs, but confusions.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited January 2015
4) CW has 1 more encounter slot.
That places us 3rd on the list of most encounters. HRs have 6 encounters: 3 archery and 3 combat. DCs have virtually limitless encounters, as long as you throw some at wills in.
i seriously dont get why cws say they lack single target. seriously let's talk about it.
Mainly because every other class, except GF and maybe GWF does more than us. I don't have a warlock, but they seem to have the best, with the possible exception of TRs. Even my DC blows me out of the water when it comes to single target damage. Maybe it would be different if I had Focused Wizardry, but I don't. I'm an AE wizard.
They buffed shard
That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read here.
"but cw have low defense", no
Yes. Everything is easier when you outgear the content, but we have still have less defense than most other classes.
have the best cc+range
Best CC, yes. Best range, I think not. I do much more damage up close. My main powers, Steal Time, Sudden Storm and Icy Terrain, have to be cast up close, in the middle of everything. OF is another. That's three quarters of my encounters and half of my dailies. That leaves Warlocks and archery rangers way ahead of us. Even my DC can do better at range, though I don't play him that way.
That places us 3rd on the list of most encounters. HRs have 6 encounters: 3 archery and 3 combat. DCs have virtually limitless encounters, as long as you throw some at wills in.
Mainly because every other class, except GF and maybe GWF does more than us. I don't have a warlock, but they seem to have the best, with the possible exception of TRs. Even my DC blows me out of the water when it comes to single target damage. Maybe it would be different if I had Focused Wizardry, but I don't. I'm an AE wizard.
That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read here.
Yes. Everything is easier when you outgear the content, but we have still have less defense than most other classes.
Best CC, yes. Best range, I think not. I do much more damage up close. My main powers, Steal Time, Sudden Storm and Icy Terrain, have to be cast up close, in the middle of everything. OF is another. That's three quarters of my encounters and half of my dailies. That leaves Warlocks and archery rangers way ahead of us. Even my DC can do better at range, though I don't play him that way.
.
your point is invalid, 3 encounters out of 6 are utilities and the highest base damage they do is 3k
I don't have a warlock, but they seem to have the best, with the possible exception of TRs.
.
I pretty much only play my SW since the introduction of artifact gear. A few TR's are the only ones that give me a run for my money with ST damage. CW's don't even come close as you said. That assumes of course that the SW knows what they are doing of course. I've seen so many bad SW powers fired off in Tiamat that those that think that CW's come close are probably running with those.
This thread has quite outlived its usefulness. Please abide by the Rules of Conduct when posting and if you haven't anything civil to say to each other, do not post until you do.
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Comments
By the way this also applies to TRs with SoD now, possibly even in much higher degree. There is no way a non executioner TR will ever reach that level of damage output.
They buffed shard.
+1
As our main role is to control, shard is even better as stuns for longer.
Who cares about little less damage if mobs cannot attack us because of shard, then we can do even more damage from damage–buffed Steal Time, that Overall makes us even better damage.
Comparation (1141×2430 px)
In summary, combo Shard then Steal Time makes now more damage than Shard then Steal Time before.
Shard is not better. It may prone but without the damage to kill foes it makes things worse the knockback it does. Now you give them a papercut with shard and scatter them. Run something like IT, ST, CoI, SS. No shard, no scattered mobs, everyone is happy. Any move that does a microscopic knockback and doesn't kill the mob is bad option to use.
Its pure damage + prone, so both control and damage that makes the adds to be in one place, so any other AoE skill will impact them all, while without shard, they will just run around and killing them will take much longer.
Maybe you just got offended that devs nerfed its damage and you came up with the state that shard is no longer BiS, cause of it got "damage nerfed" (while it`s control is buffed aswell).
BTW When I run with some PUG/LFG CW that does not use shard, it usually takes longer as with much decreased control, he cannot survive and with aggro, begins running away, making 2nd group of adds so it takes about 2 times longer to kill them.
I can`t imagine about running without shard nowadays, too much control and too much damage.
FtF > IT > Shard > ST > FI. And nobody will even attack you if you are skilled enough.
If you run the 2nd paragon, you have much worse daily and can cast it much less frequently, but still can control for over 80% of the time.
Nobody wants to run after every add to kill them alone, this is what CW role is. To control.
You just spout nonsense.
You're very, very off here. At least speaking for groups >13k GS and having some very basic understanding of the game. What you say might have been a solid approach some mods ago but nowadays this is just sub optimal. One CW with CoI(tab), IT, ST, OF (Sing/FI in special cases) can provide all the control you'll ever need. Even the formerly meta with feated Sudden Storm instantly freezing enemies is outdated.
Edit: Just to get things straight. I don't want to tell you how to play. At all. If you like playing that way and your party members don't ahve issues with scattered mobs (yes they will be scattered. Unless you cast IF after each shard hit) - by any means go for it. Just be aware that shard's severe damage reduction and mostly unacceptable scattering are nothing made up by some poster above but a sad fact.
Do we even respond to that?
is the same thing; no games here: "paingiver" is the guy that, hypothetically, would be able to clear a room faster, that is, would be less exposed to danger or make the party less exposed to the danger. in fact, the record of "damage taken" is fake, because, the point about defence is: Meanwhile they have been exposed to danger, who was the Person responsible for the survival of the group? the record of damage taken?
of course, dont forget: damage=defence, but defense is not = damage.
obviously Iam not speak about 'fake damages " like executioner styles. If you have the best offensive capability and the best of the one spectrum of a defensive capability, my friend, your class is very, very unbalanced. this is not theoretical: it is the history of the game. now is too late for that, but... my god, how much relativism people need to justify a obscenity? oh, but and the bosses spamming adds? dont need a single target? yeah... yeah...
seriously let's talk about it.
i m not that good at english and for the sake of summarizing i will going on for points:
1) storm spell proc from every source of damage, it's subjected to buffs/debuffs and multiplier such as vorpal, power, chilling presence.
for example a pvp cw (with no stone and about 6k power ) can crit up to 14k to my full pvp tenacity HR with no internal cooldown.
2) CW base damages are the highest upon all classes
3) CW cooldowns are the lowest upon all classes.
4) CW has 1 more encounter slot.
5) a way common renegade CW ( ray of enfeeblement feated ) debuffs for 50% increased damages while using one of their best single target encounter.
6) ray of frost is probably the best at will in game ( 100% sure in pvp, probably slightly less desiderable in pve compared to duelist flurry)
so...for the mentioned reasons i really dont feel like CWs lack single target damages
edit: 7) they have a feat to deal 30% increased single target damages.
the overall performance in pve, falls if you set up your class to be a single target. say that the single target of cw is weak is a demagogy , but you can not optimize the cw for single target without sacrificing their basic functions.
On the other hand, a debuff for a cc class is bizarre. iam forget that. top damage/best cc and part of the party damage IS cw damage?
is so sad... players of this class should have shame to suggest nerfs for other classes.
Do you want ACT shots where SWs are outdpsing CWs on single target and multiple targets btw on Tiamat?
Noone beats GWfs in that area!
1- I said:
to have a good single target perfomance, cw needs reduce your overall performance. ie "sacrifice". however, this sacrifice brings a good result .
I dont say anything about cw be top in single target too (although this single target debuff is very unbalanced).
2 - There is an obvious moral difference between ask nerfs to unbalanced classes, ask for nerfs to comparative proposes (i do a lot of it. ) and ask for nerfs to sustain a status quo.
for example, during m3, came a cw reports an extra amount of 13% in destroyer damage, but in this time, cw had feets / class features that individually gave 3/4 more bonus than it should. what do you expect?
I'm not saying that every cw player is a **** (2 of my best game friends are main cws) but this class have a strange "sex appeal" to certain public.
but the point of the entire thread is: cw damage come to passives. "but shard" old shard damage is broken. "but cw have low defense", no; have the best cc+range. "cw have low single target". no. that is the cw. the total picture.
personally, i think is too late to fix the game through cw. but if the rumor of life steal is true, so partys of cw. again, will dominated the game instead of bringing balance. the experience seens dont bring solutions for devs, but confusions.
That places us 3rd on the list of most encounters. HRs have 6 encounters: 3 archery and 3 combat. DCs have virtually limitless encounters, as long as you throw some at wills in.
Mainly because every other class, except GF and maybe GWF does more than us. I don't have a warlock, but they seem to have the best, with the possible exception of TRs. Even my DC blows me out of the water when it comes to single target damage. Maybe it would be different if I had Focused Wizardry, but I don't. I'm an AE wizard.
That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read here.
Yes. Everything is easier when you outgear the content, but we have still have less defense than most other classes.
Best CC, yes. Best range, I think not. I do much more damage up close. My main powers, Steal Time, Sudden Storm and Icy Terrain, have to be cast up close, in the middle of everything. OF is another. That's three quarters of my encounters and half of my dailies. That leaves Warlocks and archery rangers way ahead of us. Even my DC can do better at range, though I don't play him that way.
.
your point is invalid, 3 encounters out of 6 are utilities and the highest base damage they do is 3k
I pretty much only play my SW since the introduction of artifact gear. A few TR's are the only ones that give me a run for my money with ST damage. CW's don't even come close as you said. That assumes of course that the SW knows what they are doing of course. I've seen so many bad SW powers fired off in Tiamat that those that think that CW's come close are probably running with those.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com