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Big Ticket BoE Drops

zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
edited December 2014 in General Discussion (PC)
This is supplement/part II to recent post that established a Maxed 60 Total AD takes well over 100,000,000 AD (http://tinyurl.com/lkz5vv8). There is nowhere in game to get that kind of AD. Castle Never was good D&D example model. The content was difficult enough that it could be tackled only by very well geared and well played crews, but the rewards in gear and sales were substantial with success.

Since most T2 drops now worthless and just overall situation, a huge chunk of the L60 community has quit running dungeons and a quiet cloud of boredom and discouragement is sinking over many many of us. Big ticket AH items in the entire game that can be gotten as unbound or Bind on Equip rare drops that fetch 500k or more are so few you can count them less than ten fingers now. Here they are:

BoE Drops, 500,000+ AD:..........................................Lowest current auction buyout (LCAB)

[Black Ice Beholder] (Artifact, Kessel's Retreat)...............................3,570,000 AD
[Emblem of the Seldarine] (Artifact, Malabog's Castle)......................4,500,000 AD
[Shard of Valindra's Crown] (Artifact, Valindra's Tower).....................2,000,000 AD
[Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting] (Artifact, eLoL).................................2,500,000 AD
[Tiamat's Orb of Majesty] (Artifact, Temple of Tiamat, Tier IV).............7,500,000 AD
[Rod of Imperial Restraint] (Artifact, Rothe/WhispCavern Dragons)........910,000 AD

Mod5 Cloaks have LCAB of 500,000 to 1,000,000 AD but soon to fall from this list since these are available with Linu:

[Cloak of Black Ice](Artifact Cloak, Well of Dragon Heroic Encounters)
[Cloak of the Seldarine](Artifact Cloak, Well of Dragon Heroic Encounters)
[Lathander's Cloak](Artifact Cloak, Well of Dragon Heroic Encounters)
[Imperial Dragon Cloak](Artifact Cloak, Well of Dragon Heroic Encounters)

Maybe there are a very few purple gear pieces left such as some Gauntlegrym pieces like Battlefield Skulker TR or possibly few CN pieces that fetch over 500k but then that's it. Everything else BoE of significant value comes from Zen store or from lockboxes.

We need [Legendary] versions of all dungeons (Cloak to Frozen Heart to ToS/Malabogs/VT etc) with adds that hit so hard it makes a 16k+ geared crew wet and mess themselves (Tiamat adds come to mind) but can be completed with strong group. Epic Temple of Spider can be solo'd. PvE content needs new legendary tier. Rewards can be sweet and include frequent Greater Mark of Potency drops, purple profession assets, select lockbox items, and lots of refining stones. This will greatly enrich the game and lift said cloud of boredom and discouragement .
Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

Post edited by zeusom on
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    zeusom wrote: »
    This is supplement/part II to recent post that established a Maxed 60 Total AD takes well over 100,000,000 AD (http://tinyurl.com/lkz5vv8).

    You're not suppose to "buy" your way to a maxed 60. You play your way there.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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    aggerethaggereth Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    zeusom wrote: »
    We need [Legendary] versions of all dungeons (Cloak to Frozen Heart to ToS/Malabogs/VT etc) with adds that hit so hard it makes a 16k+ geared crew wet and mess themselves (Tiamat adds come to mind) but can be completed with strong group. Epic Temple of Spider can be solo'd. PvE content needs new legendary tier. Rewards can be sweet and include frequent Greater Mark of Potency drops, purple profession assets, select lockbox items, and lots of refining stones. This will greatly enrich the game and lift said cloud of boredom and discouragement .

    Amen to that my friend !!!!!!! We do need it indeed !!!!!
    I don't suffer from insanity ! ..I enjoy every minute of it ![SIGPIC][/SIGPIc]
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    gerbilhurdlergerbilhurdler Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 418 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    You're not suppose to "buy" your way to a maxed 60. You play your way there.

    So how do you suggest you get the 100,000,000 ad?
    I would guess you would "play" to get it...
    ...so not sure what you are trying to say here.

    OP: 100,000,000 AD is way too much grind for me, I already gave up on this game. I will start playing again when they fix the RP drops for dragon's hoard enchants and when they get rid of the roflstoming OPness of the current trs.
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    pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yeah, getting one of the "big ticket" items to drop for you is kinda like winning the lottery. If you get it, you can substantially upgrade your character really quickly.

    But like in real life, "winning the lottery" is kinda rare, yet most people are able to progress with their daily lives even without winning the lottery. So it is in this game.

    For instance, in mod 4, I farmed two boon books by buying them from the vendor with 100 secrets/sigils each (they never dropped for me). I sold those for about 1 million AD each. Now that books have been dropping more frequently, I bought one for only 400k and finally got my fourth boon. So with the net profit I was able to do many things like upgrade enchants and upgrade a companion to epic. I didn't get a "big ticket" drop though.

    In order to get the rest of the boons, my plan is to use the secrets/sigils to make Dragon Hoard enchants and sell them, and then use that AD to buy boon books. The profit from each lesser is currently about 20k. Will it take a while to get enough AD for the fifth boon book? Well yeah. But I will get it eventually. No "big ticket" drop is required.

    I think the wealth-building model has to shift away from running dungeons in hopes of getting that one BIG THING to drop to make mega millions, and towards doing many many little things that generate small amounts of AD, which then all adds up.

    Off the top of my head, here is what people should be doing to make AD:
    - Selling Fey Blessings from Sharandar
    - Selling Dragon Hoards from ToD
    - Selling Slayer Rings and fashion items from IWD
    - Selling companions, dyes, mounts, etc. that drop during special events
    - Having multiple toons doing leadership
    - Selling glory caches, glory boosters, and grym coin caches from the PVP campaign
    - Running dungeons and transferring unbound epics to leadership mules to salvage for RAD that can be refined to bypass the 24k limit on one character
    - When leveling a new character, selling any lowbie blue gear that you find (it can be worth more than you think)
    - When leveling a profession other than leadership, selling the results of the 6/7/8 hour "Mass ____ Curing/Forging/Crafting" tasks, which you will accumulate a lot of while leveling the profession
    - Currently, because Jewelcrafting is the new hotness, selling the precursors to the personalized rings/belts/necklaces if you are still working to level it up to 20.
    - Selling a lot of the junk that is in the professions tab of your inventory, you probably have some stuff in there that you just pick up along the way that has no crafting value to you but may be worth something to others - this is especially true of the crafting mats that you pick up in IWD
    - If you use Alchemy to unlock professions slots, crafting the lowbie pots and selling those, because those don't drop very often in PVE and people need those to level up Alchemy - and with 2xXP weekend coming up, more people will be leveling up new chars and will want to unlock their professions slots on those, so now is a good time to start crafting those pots

    And none of this involves "flipping on the AH" or "arbitrage on the ZAX", which can also work too, but they require already having a lot of capital to start with.
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    zamajezamaje Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yes, I agree. We need legendary versions of these dungeons. Of all of our dungeons. But with these changes it could be even better.

    End chest has higher percentage rolls scaling with the number of adds killed. This promotes players actually appreciating the amount of art and design each dungeon has when they go looking for the adds they normally wouldn't kill due to speed runs.

    The AI of adds could be improved too, simple things such as the way adds target a unit. Mob groups could split focus so certain mobs only focused the dps'er and the other mobs focused the one with the highest amount of cc. It is a legendary dungeon after all. And with these measures, higher loot could be given out.
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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Yeah, getting one of the "big ticket" items to drop for you is kinda like winning the lottery. If you get it, you can substantially upgrade your character really quickly.

    I think the wealth-building model has to shift away from running dungeons in hopes of getting that one BIG THING to drop to make mega millions, and towards doing many many little things that generate small amounts of AD, which then all adds up.

    Right now there are lots of ways to make little piles of AD (your list above), there are a very few drops that make a big chunks of AD, but there is very little not much else in between few 1000s AD makers and ultrarare few 1,000,000 AD makers.
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    So how do you suggest you get the 100,000,000 ad?
    I would guess you would "play" to get it...

    See, you're missing the point. There's no machine you jam 100 million AD into to get your MAX card. Everything you do gets you one step closer. Every small enchantment drop, every blue item, every epic item, every leadership task, etc...it's a small stream of AD that starts to add up. But what some people lwant is more or less an "instant wealth" button. They're looking to get wealthy by winning the lottery, while the people who ARE wealthy got it one day at a time, little by little.

    That's how this works.

    But more to the point, we need harder content to challenge players to simply give them something fun to do.

    I think making a "legendary" version of all the T2 dungeons would be awesome. With as hard as the demons hit in Tiamat, it's clear that they have a method for up-scaling normal mobs. As for the loot, just up the stats and special abilities of the current T2 gear up to a "T3" level. And some overload slots and you're done. Call it "Ancient" whatever.

    Then you have new sets people can grab. Ancient High Vizier. Ancient High Templar. Ancient Berserker's, etc...

    Give people something additional to work for, that's not RP-bound Legendary gear.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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    animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    I agree that there just are no longer anything worthy as a drop anymore. Even the SW Accursed Diabolist armor is worthless now.

    What I really agree with, is they need to add that legendary version of the dungeons. But what would be the point other than the challenge? The rewards will most likely never amount to anything.
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    zekethesinnerzekethesinner Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 805 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ^ 2 boa marks of potency, and, like ironzerg said, ancient variation of t2 would be rly nice, or exp-refinable variation of t2 (from normal t2 at r1 to t4 at r60) but only exp-refinable (progressing with u while u r playing). IMO best solution.


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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    NW is very good from Level 1 to 60. There are ways to get everything you need by playing.
    NW is very good from Level 60 fresh to get 5/5/5/5 booned, Purple Artifact gear and Rank 8s and companion set.

    NW has an enormous gap and lack of content to go further from here to get all orange and Rank 10. This is 100 million AD gap. There is little to do and no way to farm the substantial refinement and AD generation to progress at a reasonable rate.

    <Insert Legendary tier dungeons here> desperately needed.

    Legendary dungeons can safely drop unbound refinement stones because they can not be bot farmed at all. Too difficult. Requires human party.

    Legendary dungeon loot tables can safely include many high value items, and perhaps even some lockbox or Zen items with rare RNG without hurting the economy at all. Only players who are in this above said 'dead zone' (something like 16k-18k+ gear score) will be geared enough to even complete them.

    Legendary dungeons can bring sexy back.

    BoE Ancient version gear (nice idea!)
    Rank 6, 7, even occasional Rank 8 Enchant drops
    Greater Marks of Potency, more frequent
    Lesser and Normal Weapon/Armor enchants
    Unbound refinement stone rewards
    Preservation wards & (occasional) Coalescent ward
    Ultrarare RNG Lockbox/Zen items
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    yah I guess more guaranteed rewards would be nice.

    They definitely need to give us more ways to gain Refinement items.
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    pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    zeusom wrote: »
    NW is very good from Level 1 to 60. There are ways to get everything you need by playing.
    NW is very good from Level 60 fresh to get 5/5/5/5 booned, Purple Artifact gear and Rank 8s and companion set.

    NW has an enormous gap and lack of content to go further from here to get all orange and Rank 10. This is 100 million AD gap. There is little to do and no way to farm the substantial refinement and AD generation to progress at a reasonable rate.

    Maybe you don't ever get to all orange and Rank 10's.

    Personally, on my main CW, I am going to stop at rank 9's. That is a big pain as it is right now.
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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    verdonix1 wrote: »
    The problem with all this, and it is great to think about, is that it puts the fate of the people "below" in the hands of the people "above" and I detest that.

    I understand, but don't see that happening at all. Most players are already at the mercy of some <1% filthy rich beta players who manipulate control the markets when they want.

    There is not much that could stop a dedicated player from eventually gearing up enough to be able to complete said Legendary runs. Most everything and AD needed to get to say a minimum build of all seven purple artifact and full set Rank 8 is honestly farmable in time.
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    cheesegromitcheesegromit Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    verdonix1 wrote: »
    The problem with all this, and it is great to think about, is that it puts the fate of the people "below" in the hands of the people "above" and I detest that. I honestly just see an even BIGGER AD gap between players then, putting the casual spender or *GASP* FTP player in a hole they can never get out of.

    I tend to agree with this. I accept that the game needs a way for people to earn by playing, that's part of the basic f2p model but I'd much prefer that it wasn't reliant of big ticket items, just a steady in-flow. Personally I'd rather see the cost of items/refinement etc reviewed (read decreased) and brought into line with current player income as opposed to adding big ticket items to compensate for the expense of current items/refinement etc.

    This may be a completely unrealistic view in the context of the games business model and history though.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    I love how people keep assuming the money earned from gear drops comes from thin air. The money for gear has to be earned from somewhere.

    Bottom line is that gear doesn't magically make money. It transfers wealth.

    Now I am not happy that tiered gear has dropped as much as it has but for a very different reason: it makes content less worthwhile to do. However it's hardly because of the reasoning in this thread. It is supposed to take a long time to earn BiS gear.

    With the changes to refinement stones I am also not happy with the requirements to artifacts.

    The drops from Tiamat and the increased cost and requirement for RP is something the community team are discussing with the developers.

    And as for the other thread...
    It was the most unrealistic thread ever put on these forums. It went as far as to even include the buy-past method of campaigns in the cost. It's common sense that you are not really supposed to do that. It's simply an option for those who want instant gratification.
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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I'd much prefer that it wasn't reliant of big ticket items, just a steady in-flow. Personally I'd rather see the cost of items/refinement etc reviewed (read decreased) and brought into line with current player income as opposed to adding big ticket items to compensate for the expense of current items/refinement etc.

    I agree. Legendary tier dungeon should have but not rely on big ticket items but should provide buildstage-appropriate refinement and AD income to players who have obtained a high level of gear but are not progress further. Current RP rate is fine for green to purple artifact but far too slow for getting purple to orange. Thus no reasonable means to traverse the enormous gap.

    So many Orange-aspiring players end up standing at mailboxes and watching AH more than playing. PWE/Cryptic will make far more money by keeping this player base alive, enticed, enjoying game, and logging on.

    And Zen store would sell boatloads more money on blood rubies if the price were 1/2 or 1/4 what they are now. Just as subway will make more far money selling $5 footlongs than $20 footlongs.
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    And as for the other thread... It was the most unrealistic thread ever put on these forums. It went as far as to even include the buy-past method of campaigns in the cost.

    Not true. Campaign prices were clearly indicated as for full play-through in OP (http://tinyurl.com/lkz5vv8) and reiterated again early in thread. Studies show that most criticism of authored work is from those who did not actually read the work.

    No soup for you! :)
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    unabletodisplayunabletodisplay Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Now I am not happy that tiered gear has dropped as much as it has but for a very different reason: it makes content less worthwhile to do. However it's hardly because of the reasoning in this thread. It is supposed to take a long time to earn BiS gear.

    Yes!
    Idea: Add counter like "Tiamat Hoard Reclamation" for dungeons (<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% completed?) to encourage full exploration. I play with folks who have been playing the game a long time and have never been to all the places in some of the dungeons (ToS / CN).

    Would be great to see new dungeons with the same design effort as the originals!!
    I would hope that more groups fulling appreciating the content would encourage the development team :)
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    lazaroth666lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Real big ticket BoE drops were AoW items (500k-1.5M) HV (800k-1M), HR items when that class was released (1m +/-) and the CN MH was around 3M, etc you could get a few everyday, there weren't many items that you needed to refine so you could focus in enchantments, companions and save a lot, now you can't get as much AD as before but instead you have to spend a lot more.
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    gerbilhurdlergerbilhurdler Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 418 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    See, you're missing the point. There's no machine you jam 100 million AD into to get your MAX card. Everything you do gets you one step closer. Every small enchantment drop, every blue item, every epic item, every leadership task, etc...it's a small stream of AD that starts to add up. But what some people lwant is more or less an "instant wealth" button. They're looking to get wealthy by winning the lottery, while the people who ARE wealthy got it one day at a time, little by little.

    That's how this works.

    But more to the point, we need harder content to challenge players to simply give them something fun to do.

    I think making a "legendary" version of all the T2 dungeons would be awesome. With as hard as the demons hit in Tiamat, it's clear that they have a method for up-scaling normal mobs. As for the loot, just up the stats and special abilities of the current T2 gear up to a "T3" level. And some overload slots and you're done. Call it "Ancient" whatever.

    Then you have new sets people can grab. Ancient High Vizier. Ancient High Templar. Ancient Berserker's, etc...

    Give people something additional to work for, that's not RP-bound Legendary gear.

    I have 45 days played on my main and 40 days played on my GWF.
    I get what you are saying about "it starts to add up", but the OP was trying to put into perspective the amount of AD that you need to "add up" to get one character fully geared, and the lack of ways to earn that anymore.
    And after playing for 80+ days, grinding all my accounts daily to earn my daily RaD and get a few purple drops to sell gets old.

    I do agree with you 100% there needs to be elite content that gives higher rewards once you get to 18k or so, or it isn't fun to progress anymore. I would much rather grind a hard dungeon for gear than switch instances and chase HEs for a miserably low chance at a drop that you then have to grind a couple hundred hours to upgrade to legendary.
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    zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ...you then have to grind a couple hundred hours to upgrade to legendary.

    Way more than a few hundred hours.
    Getting 3 Artifacts and 4 Artifact equipments to orange takes 30,000,000 refinement points.
    I got around 15,000 refinement points in an hour of solid hardcore open-world farming.

    That's 1000 hours if you save and use every single refinement point during 2x RP.
    If you farm RP for 1 hour each and every day it will take 3 years to get all orange, and the equipment you've refined will have been replaced with new best in slot several times over.
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

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    pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    zeusom wrote: »
    Way more than a few hundred hours.
    Getting 3 Artifacts and 4 Artifact equipments to orange takes 30,000,000 refinement points.
    I got around 15,000 refinement points in an hour of solid hardcore open-world farming.

    That's 1000 hours if you save and use every single refinement point during 2x RP.
    If you farm RP for 1 hour each and every day it will take 3 years to get all orange, and the equipment you've refined will have been replaced with new best in slot several times over.

    Okay, maybe you don't get all Orange gear.

    Artifact gear is, in a way, kind of a trap. Once you equip it, the gear becomes the master and you then become a slave to grinding RP for feeding your very hungry master.

    Personally, I have one legendary artifact, and an artifact weapon that is close to legendary (will become legendary in upcoming weekend, I hope). I will then work on getting the artifact offhand to at least epic, work on getting a second artifact to legendary, and then I might just stop with all of the RP nonsense. I might not get a belt or a cloak, and I don't think that would be such a terrible thing.
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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    I've done just fine without buying any of that. If one wants to take the quick and easy route, yeah it's going to cost a lot and in my opinion it should. Actually playing the game, like its meant to be, will get you there eventually. The most I've ever spent on one fresh 60 character to get them into T1/T2 gear to start earning their own gear, is around 500k.
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    kittykaboomboomkittykaboomboom Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I expected it but I'm still amazed at the amount of people who think all rank 10's and Orange gear is normal and should be easily attainable.

    welcome to post gold seller AH.
    also the reason no people are doing those dungeons, for the same reason that the standard dragons have very few 60's doing them.
    They are all farming for the new stuff.
    You introduce another tier, they will just shift to that. Same groups farming, same people making the money.
    also on the next level gear.
    as soon as it gets out, you will have threads , saying
    " how are we supposed to get that?"
    "now my other gear is worthless"
    "Now nobody will do XXXX"
    "the prices on this YYYY will drop"
    " we'll never catch up to longterm players"
    "new players/casual players will be at a disadvantage"
    "this isn't alt friendly"
    and the other standard responses to any changes.
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    henry404henry404 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The point is that legendary stuff *SHOULD* be painful to obtain, either through a huge amount of playing hours or a huge investment of AD or $$.
    Legendary is not everyday humdrum.
    If we could all get to legendary in a few weeks of playing then it wouldn't be worthy of the name.
    If we all have legendary stuff then it's not legendary, it's normal.
    And if we finally reach legendary, BiS, R10, perfect everything, what then?
    I'll tell you what then. We'll complain that we are bored and that there is nothing to do...
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    zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    kalindra wrote: »
    ...100+ mAD at 24kAD*char/day, that makes how many years to equip a single char?
    (Remember that you can no longer significant boost you income by running dungeon and selling loot.)

    If your statement were right, why can you buy Mod 1 & 2 progress for Zen?
    This hyperbole is missing the key element that you can obtain any gear needed to do any content just by playing and not spending a dime of AD or Zen. If one has to be so impatient, which is fine, then expect to pay a nominal price, which is also fine.

    Griping about not being able to afford to buy "the best of the best" and have instant gratification is just wrong. This later is a general statement and not aimed at any one in particular.
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    henry404henry404 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I find those campaign completion zen things quite amusing.
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