Had to go with HR. I like it because it is complicated that's why I play it more than my other toons. Not just the tab mechanic butwith the new Trapper paths you have to pay attention to which feat is in which cycle to decide what power to use in which order depending on what the confrontation looks like.
WHAT?? i really have read that DC and HR are the hardest classes due Empower and stance change???? for real?????????? ROFL!!!!! Plating a thorn ward and fight inside it is really hard, yes... And play with a healer or DPS DC is... ufff... impossible, we need to be computers just to slot Bastion and Astral and let the enemies die alone... really hard and complex.
Yet, again, this is another reason that non-GWF-players thinks that GWF-class is OP or the easiest class to play at all in both PvE and PvP...
There's more to it than that. Lookmy best attack will always be with full serpent and master trapper up. But serpent is stance dependant and ranged dailies always count as ranged attack regardless of stance. So while I am in my head remembering where my encouters are and how far I am in the MT cooldown I have to watch my AP gain and track my stacks so that I will be at the right stack and MT active when I use the daily. This is of course while staying out of CC and making the rest of my attacks occur in the optimal order given the situation. Not saying GWF is simple M8, I have one. But stayin optimalon a trapper is kind of involved.....
WHAT?? i really have read that DC and HR are the hardest classes due Empower and stance change???? for real?????????? ROFL!!!!! Plating a thorn ward and fight inside it is really hard, yes... And play with a healer or DPS DC is... ufff... impossible, we need to be computers just to slot Bastion and Astral and let the enemies die alone... really hard and complex.
Yet, again, this is another reason that non-GWF-players thinks that GWF-class is OP or the easiest class to play at all in both PvE and PvP...
edit: nevermind. no point in this discussion about it. you have personal difficulties, individual expectations about what is a "good gwf/dc/mimimi" and ... the facts. the history of each class in this game.
this say what you need know about anny class.
for me gwf is a easy class in m2, if you use iv. m3 is simple more strong than the others. the previous sm need a lot of work and cancelation. this is much more than any class offers of difficulty in any time. the actual gwf like said other guy and me (i use the word "obsolete") is poorly designed. this is not complex, is a HAMSTER job.
if complexity is "you have the tools, but need to work hard." is ranger. if in terms of better (fun)internal mechanics, still consider the hr.
First, nothing in this game is that complicated. This is DnD for dummies. Everything is distilled down into basics & much of the gameplay (like multiclassing) is lost. Great fun & I love this version of Neverwinter, but the point remains.
Having run a gf/gwf/hr/sw/tr through over 90% of the game, I'd have to say GF. Mainly my point comes from the intricacies of dungeon runs. A bad gf or dc gets the party swamped pretty fast. These two classes are the hinges that the entire run swings on. Now, if you have a passable CW or HR to control the mobs, then you can do quite well. But go ahead & try to run a dungeon at minimum gs without a gf or dc, maybe just with someone who isn't that good at those two classes. Then we can talk about complicated.
HR & GWF are complex classes with very busy schedules during a mob encounter, but having the ability to accomplish a lot of things doesn't mean it is a complicated class. TR is tricky due to AoE attacks & having to dodge around so much in order to lay down some good hurt on the enemies. But the immunity frames & high deflect make this much easier. SW just watches his placement and lays some hard hitting nukes down, much like the CW's. But I can't speak to CW complications as I don't run one.
Again, nerf your gear & run some stuff at min gs. All of the game has been run like this at some point. It is possible. Maybe run some different classes as an experiment. When you are finally successful at this, the feeling is truly wonderful. Then true appreciation for complicated classes will blossom.
Again I have a GWF. DP stacks in a linear manner. Now if you lost stacks of destroyer when you went unstoppable to gain stacks of destroyers purpose and could only see 1/2 your timers when you were unstoppable but could see the other half when not unstoppable and the synergy between the two also affected your AP gain so you had to gauge whether or not your daily would be up at mnax stacks on either and you never had any CC immunity ever. Sure. It'd be about the same thing.....
First, nothing in this game is that complicated. This is DnD for dummies. Everything is distilled down into basics & much of the gameplay (like multiclassing) is lost. Great fun & I love this version of Neverwinter, but the point remains.
Having run a gf/gwf/hr/sw/tr through over 90% of the game, I'd have to say GF. Mainly my point comes from the intricacies of dungeon runs. A bad gf or dc gets the party swamped pretty fast. These two classes are the hinges that the entire run swings on. Now, if you have a passable CW or HR to control the mobs, then you can do quite well. But go ahead & try to run a dungeon at minimum gs without a gf or dc, maybe just with someone who isn't that good at those two classes. Then we can talk about complicated.
HR & GWF are complex classes with very busy schedules during a mob encounter, but having the ability to accomplish a lot of things doesn't mean it is a complicated class. TR is tricky due to AoE attacks & having to dodge around so much in order to lay down some good hurt on the enemies. But the immunity frames & high deflect make this much easier. SW just watches his placement and lays some hard hitting nukes down, much like the CW's. But I can't speak to CW complications as I don't run one.
Again, nerf your gear & run some stuff at min gs. All of the game has been run like this at some point. It is possible. Maybe run some different classes as an experiment. When you are finally successful at this, the feeling is truly wonderful. Then true appreciation for complicated classes will blossom.
I more or less agree with you. If the question was difficult I would have to go GF as I never played a DC. For complexity I go with HR over GWF and there specifically the Trapper. Other builds are more straightforward. I am a bit of a purist so I make my toons grind their own gear so I have played all of them at low GS. Honestly I don't think you can learn to play properly if you walk in wearing T2s and R7s your main bought.
First, nothing in this game is that complicated. This is DnD for dummies. Everything is distilled down into basics & much of the gameplay (like multiclassing) is lost. Great fun & I love this version of Neverwinter, but the point remains.
Well the only complicated aspect of the game is a PVP premade between two top PVP guilds and the strategy, rotation, 2v2s, 1v2s that comes with it.
For me trapper HR and DC are the two that I would say have the most 'fiddly' mechanics. Trapper because you're switching back and forwards between two sets of encounter powers. DC for the two separate charge mechanics, divinity and empowerment. PvE only.
People voted for GWF, really? Am I missing something
I thought the same thing. They would really be in for a shock if the tried an HR/DC (not that they are that hard, but compared to the GWF it is leaps and bounds more complex).
Yes, GWF needs to get up lots of stacks, but still, there isn't much you can do to make it work any other way. To gain stacks you have to attack and nothing more. It's tedious as hell but they are not the reason why playing a GWF is complicated.
I do believe PvE GWF requires skill/knowledge to perform at best but it's more related to gameplay aspects. For example, tanking without having enough defense capabilities at eLoL or eSoT, knowing when is it better to aim for big targets and kite them away from the party and when it's better to focus on AoE DPS, slotting Daring Shout instead of Resto Strike or another hitting encounter for party utility, etc. It isn't really hard but at least it means something vs button smashing from CW or TT/DT spamming with a SW. Even empowerement mechanics aren't a big deal since there isn't almost any bad option as a cleric: You spam at-wills for divinity, you spam divine encounters to gain empowerement stacks and then you use them. Once you get used to it, micromanagement isn't as bad as it seems.
The same logic I follow when I claim that using a PvE Archery HR is "complicated". RoA is our main hitting encounter and it is a freaking pain. in. the. ***. Unless it's an stationary target such as Lostmauth, using your encounters only to find them missing everytime a CW/GWF/DC push them is frustrating. StS turns useless when targets are under permanent CC (not that it's a bad thing) and we lack hard hitting reliable dailies, since Seismic Shot tends to bug out and miss even if you use it in front of a lot of targets in CN.
But if OP means complicated as in "number of keys needed to use when you play" well yes, DC/Trapper HR are the most complicated.
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited December 2014
Most people won't be able to answer this poll in an objective way because is necessary that a player had already played every class with equal equipment in almost every aspect in the game for a minimum amount of time during which he has been able to understand every mechanic. There are two kind of players: Those who smash buttons and those who follow a specific order when using encounters/dailies/At-Wills, etc. I.E Some people say that SW is just TT and DT, whoever comment this and those who do it are part of the button smashers group, yeah it will work just two buttons very easy and you will deal damage! but is not going to be optimal and these kind of comments doesn't give any idea about how complicated is the class, if you play a SW and you want to use the TT properly you need to select specific targets by cursing them, use rebuke/wb before TT in order to maximize the damage, you have to know when to use the daily, don't lose your DT getting cc'd or you just wasted a daily, which skills are better for a specific fight, etc, and like this example every class have his own specific mechanic even that one that look very, very simple for you.
Do not find any class overly complicated, like I have seen in other games. If I had to vote, I find my Archer HR most complicated, but I also find it the funnest for me.
Any class if played with brain off is braindead. Now let's see what makes GWF hard to play:
1. Melee. You can't roflstomp everyone and everything from a 80 ft range.
2. No dodge immunity. That + above point makes playing gwf a challenge in epic dungeons / skirmishes. As you can get 1 shot even if you dodge in time.
3. Tanking with sub par survivability. Ever seen a GWF main tanking eSoT or eLoL boss? It's a dance of death. One wrong move and you're dead.
4. Threat generation. Always a challenge when pretty much every class generates more threat in general than a feated sentinel GWF
5. Accumulating a billion of stacks. Is there any other class that needs - mark + 5 stacks of weapon master + 3 stacks of destroyer + 20 stacks of destroyer's purpose in order to start dealing damage? Most mobs die before you can generate half that and by the time you reach another mob the stacks are already gone.
6. Sprint dance in PvP. Ask pando to come to PvP with you and you'll see what I mean. Only a few people are capable of doing what he's doing.
7. Hardest class to level till ~lvl 50.
So please, you have no idea what you're talking about.
LOL man, with the exception of ESOT or ELOL it's "run up to mob, hold left click, hit tab occasionally"
Never went that far with my CW. I got to ArchMage and realized that regardless the mobs would never stually hit me so it did not matter.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited December 2014
ok, for clarification, I have all 7 classes well geared and played almost all the content out there. Many people haven't done this.
Let me explain quickly:
HR - you have FOUR at wills and SIX encounters with two separate cool downs. I think it is easy to be competent (go archery and attack from distance) but to get 100% out of your character is very, very difficult. I admire those combat HR who are actually good as that requires a lot of skill
TR - Your AOE is weak, you die easily, your strongest at-will can move you into dragon breath, your dailies can move you into dragon breath, your stealth can get bugged, and one mistake and dead easily. Actually a pain to play well.
DC - empowered mechanic is difficult to use properly. Sure you can spam and be decent, but to really get the most out of that it's a bit difficult to manage.
CW - can be squishy at low gear levels. Diffulct to master timing and positioning in terms of improving team performance, requires exceptional awareness
GF - positioning can be difficult, especially against multiple mobs. However in group content it is keep up KV, spam ITF, keep aggro, block.
SW - Use rotation. TT. Deatheft on big mob. Things die. (easymode)
GWF - Run up to mobs. swing big sword. hit tab. CW win paingiver. go to forum. whine, complain, repeat. -_-''
I find HR to be a more advanced class. For someone new to the game, it would almost be a little too much IMO. In order to maximize your DPS, you need to work with both melee and ranged to reach the HR's maximum potential. That means knowing how to stance dance and when to use each encounter. There is certainly a learning curve since the game does not have a built in timer to let you know when one encounter is ready when you're in once stance and not the other.
I've played all classes besides GF and HR has been to date the most fun and complicated (which I enjoy) for me.
GWF - Run up to mobs. swing big sword. hit tab. CW win paingiver. go to forum. whine, complain, repeat. -_-''
Hmmm, ya' know...I kinda' feel like Paingiver complaints belong to the CWs...but maybe that's just me...actually, seems like they complain about everything-
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited December 2014
I have an alt of every class, and I think HR is the hardest.
My main is a GWF, and I gotta say GWF is easy to learn, but would take a little time to get better at it (learning the combos and cancelling skills), then takes a bit more to know how to distribute your stats (very important) and then even more reading to know how to utilize your build against your ability score+gear+play style or even team pvp builds. A simply fact, even with a bunch of GWFs wearing BiS Black Ice gears, you can still differentiate who are easy kills and who are unstoppable
Comments
Bwahahhahhahah (sorry for laughing disabled people)
There's more to it than that. Lookmy best attack will always be with full serpent and master trapper up. But serpent is stance dependant and ranged dailies always count as ranged attack regardless of stance. So while I am in my head remembering where my encouters are and how far I am in the MT cooldown I have to watch my AP gain and track my stacks so that I will be at the right stack and MT active when I use the daily. This is of course while staying out of CC and making the rest of my attacks occur in the optimal order given the situation. Not saying GWF is simple M8, I have one. But stayin optimalon a trapper is kind of involved.....
Hard and complicated are not synonymous.
You know we're talking about opinions, right?
If you think the GWF mechanics are the most complex and complicated to perform, well, that's you.
this say what you need know about anny class.
for me gwf is a easy class in m2, if you use iv. m3 is simple more strong than the others. the previous sm need a lot of work and cancelation. this is much more than any class offers of difficulty in any time. the actual gwf like said other guy and me (i use the word "obsolete") is poorly designed. this is not complex, is a HAMSTER job.
if complexity is "you have the tools, but need to work hard." is ranger. if in terms of better (fun)internal mechanics, still consider the hr.
Having run a gf/gwf/hr/sw/tr through over 90% of the game, I'd have to say GF. Mainly my point comes from the intricacies of dungeon runs. A bad gf or dc gets the party swamped pretty fast. These two classes are the hinges that the entire run swings on. Now, if you have a passable CW or HR to control the mobs, then you can do quite well. But go ahead & try to run a dungeon at minimum gs without a gf or dc, maybe just with someone who isn't that good at those two classes. Then we can talk about complicated.
HR & GWF are complex classes with very busy schedules during a mob encounter, but having the ability to accomplish a lot of things doesn't mean it is a complicated class. TR is tricky due to AoE attacks & having to dodge around so much in order to lay down some good hurt on the enemies. But the immunity frames & high deflect make this much easier. SW just watches his placement and lays some hard hitting nukes down, much like the CW's. But I can't speak to CW complications as I don't run one.
Again, nerf your gear & run some stuff at min gs. All of the game has been run like this at some point. It is possible. Maybe run some different classes as an experiment. When you are finally successful at this, the feeling is truly wonderful. Then true appreciation for complicated classes will blossom.
I more or less agree with you. If the question was difficult I would have to go GF as I never played a DC. For complexity I go with HR over GWF and there specifically the Trapper. Other builds are more straightforward. I am a bit of a purist so I make my toons grind their own gear so I have played all of them at low GS. Honestly I don't think you can learn to play properly if you walk in wearing T2s and R7s your main bought.
Well the only complicated aspect of the game is a PVP premade between two top PVP guilds and the strategy, rotation, 2v2s, 1v2s that comes with it.
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
I thought the same thing. They would really be in for a shock if the tried an HR/DC (not that they are that hard, but compared to the GWF it is leaps and bounds more complex).
I do believe PvE GWF requires skill/knowledge to perform at best but it's more related to gameplay aspects. For example, tanking without having enough defense capabilities at eLoL or eSoT, knowing when is it better to aim for big targets and kite them away from the party and when it's better to focus on AoE DPS, slotting Daring Shout instead of Resto Strike or another hitting encounter for party utility, etc. It isn't really hard but at least it means something vs button smashing from CW or TT/DT spamming with a SW. Even empowerement mechanics aren't a big deal since there isn't almost any bad option as a cleric: You spam at-wills for divinity, you spam divine encounters to gain empowerement stacks and then you use them. Once you get used to it, micromanagement isn't as bad as it seems.
The same logic I follow when I claim that using a PvE Archery HR is "complicated". RoA is our main hitting encounter and it is a freaking pain. in. the. ***. Unless it's an stationary target such as Lostmauth, using your encounters only to find them missing everytime a CW/GWF/DC push them is frustrating. StS turns useless when targets are under permanent CC (not that it's a bad thing) and we lack hard hitting reliable dailies, since Seismic Shot tends to bug out and miss even if you use it in front of a lot of targets in CN.
But if OP means complicated as in "number of keys needed to use when you play" well yes, DC/Trapper HR are the most complicated.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
LOL man, with the exception of ESOT or ELOL it's "run up to mob, hold left click, hit tab occasionally"
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
This is true, it if you have gear and some competency (read my guide) CW can be good.
However there are very few great CWs out there. Most players are too used to just spamming OF to understand the nuances of timing and positioning.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Let me explain quickly:
HR - you have FOUR at wills and SIX encounters with two separate cool downs. I think it is easy to be competent (go archery and attack from distance) but to get 100% out of your character is very, very difficult. I admire those combat HR who are actually good as that requires a lot of skill
TR - Your AOE is weak, you die easily, your strongest at-will can move you into dragon breath, your dailies can move you into dragon breath, your stealth can get bugged, and one mistake and dead easily. Actually a pain to play well.
DC - empowered mechanic is difficult to use properly. Sure you can spam and be decent, but to really get the most out of that it's a bit difficult to manage.
CW - can be squishy at low gear levels. Diffulct to master timing and positioning in terms of improving team performance, requires exceptional awareness
GF - positioning can be difficult, especially against multiple mobs. However in group content it is keep up KV, spam ITF, keep aggro, block.
SW - Use rotation. TT. Deatheft on big mob. Things die. (easymode)
GWF - Run up to mobs. swing big sword. hit tab. CW win paingiver. go to forum. whine, complain, repeat. -_-''
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I've played all classes besides GF and HR has been to date the most fun and complicated (which I enjoy) for me.
Hmmm, ya' know...I kinda' feel like Paingiver complaints belong to the CWs...but maybe that's just me...actually, seems like they complain about everything-
My main is a GWF, and I gotta say GWF is easy to learn, but would take a little time to get better at it (learning the combos and cancelling skills), then takes a bit more to know how to distribute your stats (very important) and then even more reading to know how to utilize your build against your ability score+gear+play style or even team pvp builds. A simply fact, even with a bunch of GWFs wearing BiS Black Ice gears, you can still differentiate who are easy kills and who are unstoppable
icydrake
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)