Most complicated class

hefisdo

What's the class that you consider the most complex to manage currently? What class looks like it's the hardest to pull all of its potential?

If possible, vote looking generally, and then point out which one is the most complex on PvP and which one is the most complex on PvE in your opinion (also saying the one you voted).

katamaster81899

I think that it needs to be specified whether this PVP or PVE, because GWF is far easier in PVE than in PVP. Whereas TR is somewhat harder in PVE than PVP.

godlysoul2

I would lean towards TR. I would say HR is up there as well, but not since the release of the second paragon path. People are going to be mad and say it doesn't require skill or is easy because it is currently OP, but it has always been the most involved. It is very fragile and relies heavily on movement/anticipation. It is the one class that has extremely low bounds on its potential, meaning if played right, it has the most opportunity to out-perform any other classes in similar disadvantaged situations depending on how it is played, unlike other classes which are always exposed and very limited in their capabilities when things start to get rough.

Despite TR taking less skill this mod due to a variety of changes, it still remains at the top for these reasons.

As far as "most complicated", I'm not entirely sure what qualifies for that. However, I will claim that TR is the most involved, and requires the most skill to maximize its potential.

koalazebra1

"most complicated"

I think its GWFs because its been 5 mods and devs still don't know what to do with the class ROFLMAO its been nerf-buff-nerf-buff-nerf-buff and so on. The class description doesn't match the actual play-style.

ychiaki

PvE: Archery HR. GWF is easy to play but hard to be really good.

PvP: Warlocks, because they lack cheesy mechanics.

chemboy613

I can't belive people are saying GWF. I think GWF is relatively brain-dead.

Voted HR. Two stances makes it very very difficult to get most out of your class.

I think SW and GWF are easiest.

angrysprite

chemboy613 wrote: »

I can't belive people are saying GWF. I think GWF is relatively brain-dead.

Voted HR. Two stances makes it very very difficult to get most out of your class.

I think SW and GWF are easiest.

Agreed.

I think it's a toss-up between HR with two stances and the new mechanics of DC with the Empowered management.

vverg

Suprises me that people vote the TR, while in PvP and PvE it is the most easy class to play.

But PvE: Archery HR (they are really in bad spot, also in PvP a very hard path)
PvP: SW (if you aren't geared up, there just too many classes that can beat you. Especially against TR's but most classes have a hard time against this class if the TR is not a complete ****)

ryugasirius

angrysprite wrote: »

Agreed.

I think it's a toss-up between HR with two stances and the new mechanics of DC with the Empowered management.

Well, I tried my DC (12k GS, not really well geared), and I was melting content (i.e. much of IwD) I struggled with when playing other classes. Without even using divinity or empowerment! While managing the empowered mechanic might be a bit complicated, I'd say it's mostly unneeded.

lerdocix

HR and DC, both because they got more encounters to use then other classes HR and his stances and DC with empowered encounters with different effects, both offering extreme flexibility and adaptation to the situation.
Then, far behind is CW and at rock bottm(aka EZ mode to play) rest of the classes.

zvieris

chemboy613 wrote: »

I can't belive people are saying GWF. I think GWF is relatively brain-dead.

Voted HR. Two stances makes it very very difficult to get most out of your class.

I think SW and GWF are easiest.

Any class if played with brain off is braindead. Now let's see what makes GWF hard to play:
1. Melee. You can't roflstomp everyone and everything from a 80 ft range.
2. No dodge immunity. That + above point makes playing gwf a challenge in epic dungeons / skirmishes. As you can get 1 shot even if you dodge in time.
3. Tanking with sub par survivability. Ever seen a GWF main tanking eSoT or eLoL boss? It's a dance of death. One wrong move and you're dead.
4. Threat generation. Always a challenge when pretty much every class generates more threat in general than a feated sentinel GWF
5. Accumulating a billion of stacks. Is there any other class that needs - mark + 5 stacks of weapon master + 3 stacks of destroyer + 20 stacks of destroyer's purpose in order to start dealing damage? Most mobs die before you can generate half that and by the time you reach another mob the stacks are already gone.
6. Sprint dance in PvP. Ask pando to come to PvP with you and you'll see what I mean. Only a few people are capable of doing what he's doing.
7. Hardest class to level till ~lvl 50.

So please, you have no idea what you're talking about.

tarftgm

zvieris wrote: »

Any class if played with brain off is braindead. Now let's see what makes GWF hard to play:
1. Melee. You can't roflstomp everyone and everything from a 80 ft range.
2. No dodge immunity. That + above point makes playing gwf a challenge in epic dungeons / skirmishes. As you can get 1 shot even if you dodge in time.
3. Tanking with sub par survivability. Ever seen a GWF main tanking eSoT or eLoL boss? It's a dance of death. One wrong move and you're dead.
4. Threat generation. Always a challenge when pretty much every class generates more threat in general than a feated sentinel GWF
5. Accumulating a billion of stacks. Is there any other class that needs - mark + 5 stacks of weapon master + 3 stacks of destroyer + 20 stacks of destroyer's purpose in order to start dealing damage? Most mobs die before you can generate half that and by the time you reach another mob the stacks are already gone.
6. Sprint dance in PvP. Ask pando to come to PvP with you and you'll see what I mean. Only a few people are capable of doing what he's doing.
7. Hardest class to level till ~lvl 50.

So please, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Agreed, but then again that guy is an easymode CW, he doesn't understand how nerfed GWF is.

Sentinel : you need to stack very high power and MUST have Perfect Vorpal to use a NERFED intimidation, which means you sacrificed defensive stats and HP, which makes you a squishy sentinel. +DPS "Out-threats" sentinel threat.

Destroyer : "DPS" tree, poverty weak unstoppable, HAMSTER poor damage, need a billion stacks.

Insitgator : Worst tree, lower DPS than Destroyer, crappier survavibility than Sentinel. Also has the crappy Unstoppable.


Oh and I forgot: GWF without Intimidation in PVP is almost as worse as Warlock.

angrysprite

ryugasirius wrote: »

Well, I tried my DC (12k GS, not really well geared), and I was melting content (i.e. much of IwD) I struggled with when playing other classes. Without even using divinity or empowerment! While managing the empowered mechanic might be a bit complicated, I'd say it's mostly unneeded.

Good point (needed management) - but I was answering the "complicated" question, not the "how easy to play" question. I think they're all relatively easy to play once you get it down right (play style you like best).

But in term of "complication" to play: that HR stance-swapping can be tricky to do it right (at the right time, in the right situation) and that Empowered mechanic of DC literally triples the number of different power abilities one (may want) to keep track of, then actually using it all effectively. So the question of "complicated" falls to these two in my mind.

Te me: the question of "complicated" boils down to the complexity of maintaining an efficient combat character.

Unknown

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umsche

You're just mixing complicated with weak...

The poll is about how easy mechanics are to understand, not how easy it to destroy things with your toon.
GWF is simple.

thefabricant

I am going for DC, with the new empowerment. It is by no means the GWF as this is not about how underpowered or overpowered a class is, its about how complex the mechanics are and GWF's mechanics are by no means as complex as the dc's. Even if the dc handles well in both PVP and PVE, to properly manage the DC's mechanics in the most optimal way is more complex then managing a GWF.

burkaanc

koalazebra1 wrote: »

"most complicated"

I think its GWFs because its been 5 mods and devs still don't know what to do with the class ROFLMAO its been nerf-buff-nerf-buff-nerf-buff and so on. The class description doesn't match the actual play-style.

it was more like nerf - buff - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - somebody got high and said intimidation is a good idea - nerf - nerf - nerf

jeffro9000

I am also surprised to see people think gwf is complicated/difficult.

I don't think gwf is overpowered, but they do not really take any careful thought or tactics to fight against different classes or in different situations.

There is only one build, intimidation sent, so no difficult decision there. You don't even have to look at your target with 2 out of the 3 encounters you will be using, so no challenge there. On top of that gwf have unstoppable to break all cc and mitigate a ton of damage, an easy "oh HAMSTER" button that you just pretty much mash on. If things get really tough, gwf can run as fast or faster than a 110% mount to grab a potion or whatever. Does that sound like a class that needs a mastermind behind the wheel?

hefisdo

Updated the OP to make things more clear.

I voted on DC because it's kinda hard to master the Empowered mechanic, but HR is just as complicated as it, because of the tab mechanic.

On PvP, I consider HR the hardest; and on PvE I think DC is the hardest.

I don't think voting for the weakest class is correct because buffs come, nerfs come... and mechanics, in the other hand, rarely change.

lerdocix

burkaanc wrote: »

it was more like nerf - buff - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - nerf - somebody got high and said intimidation is a good idea - nerf - nerf - nerf

In case it was hard to understand 10 people before you-its NOT about which class is the weakest/stronges, but which one is HARDEST to play.

And its definitely not GWF, unless you consider pressing unstoppable at full or at half bar is harder choice then managing divine and empowered of DC or stances and cooldowns of HR.

burkaanc

zvieris wrote: »

5. Accumulating a billion of stacks. Is there any other class that needs - mark + 5 stacks of weapon master + 3 stacks of destroyer + 20 stacks of destroyer's purpose in order to start dealing damage? Most mobs die before you can generate half that and by the time you reach another mob the stacks are already gone.

you forgot AoW stacks

umsche wrote: »

You're just mixing complicated with weak...

The poll is about how easy mechanics are to understand, not how easy it to destroy things with your toon.
GWF is simple.

GWF is simple to learn, its much harder to master, there are a lot of thing that cant be noticed without playing a lot of GWF. HR and DC just have annoying mechanics, its not that hard

+
playing weak class to be on par is harder than do same thing with balanced or OP class.

for PvE
GWF is a squishy melee class without immunity frames(i have 23k hp, and i have 2 artifacts that give HP, probably some 2k+ hp from them), unstoppable has delay, sprint has huge delay and you can be easily 1shot, even smth like barbarians in eSoT can kill you in 2 hits @ 10k~15k/hit, even full unstoppable + sprint doesnt guarantee you will survive larger hits, not like press a button and become immune to everything for 0.x seconds.
Unstoppable is bugged since launch and there is a ton of attacks that ignore CC immunity, few attacks knock you down and about any boss attack + spinning dragon-wannabe-gwfs, and a ton of other mobs knock you back through unstoppable, so even while you do get hit for a bit less damage and have reduced cc duration you still are ccd.
Timing all the moronic stacks, you wonder why GWF's run ahead of pt in dungeons, and, sometimes, die because of that ? its because of those stupid stacks
Jumping with threatening through an attack that would knock you back

lazaroth666

Obviously hardest to play is CW, keep in mind that their class feature "Storm Spell" is at least 34% of his total damage, passive dmg FTW.

/Sarcasm off.

thefabricant

burkaanc wrote: »

you forgot AoW stacks


GWF is simple to learn, its much harder to master, there are a lot of thing that cant be noticed without playing a lot of GWF. HR and DC just have annoying mechanics, its not that hard

+
playing weak class to be on par is harder than do same thing with balanced or OP class.

for PvE
GWF is a squishy melee class without immunity frames(i have 23k hp, and i have 2 artifacts that give HP, probably some 2k+ hp from them), unstoppable has delay, sprint has huge delay and you can be easily 1shot, even smth like barbarians in eSoT can kill you in 2 hits @ 10k~15k/hit, even full unstoppable + sprint doesnt guarantee you will survive larger hits, not like press a button and become immune to everything for 0.x seconds.
Unstoppable is bugged since launch and there is a ton of attacks that ignore CC immunity, few attacks knock you down and about any boss attack + spinning dragon-wannabe-gwfs, and a ton of other mobs knock you back through unstoppable, so even while you do get hit for a bit less damage and have reduced cc duration you still are ccd.
Timing all the moronic stacks, you wonder why GWF's run ahead of pt in dungeons, and, sometimes, die because of that ? its because of those stupid stacks
Jumping with threatening through an attack that would knock you back

CW is also easy to learn but hard to master...The class that I think has the highest skill cap though is dc.

zvieris

umsche wrote: »

You're just mixing complicated with weak...

The poll is about how easy mechanics are to understand, not how easy it to destroy things with your toon.
GWF is simple.

Please read up. I've pointed the main things that makes GWF a hard to maintain class.

jeffro9000 wrote: »

I am also surprised to see people think gwf is complicated/difficult.

I don't think gwf is overpowered, but they do not really take any careful thought or tactics to fight against different classes or in different situations.

There is only one build, intimidation sent, so no difficult decision there. You don't even have to look at your target with 2 out of the 3 encounters you will be using, so no challenge there. On top of that gwf have unstoppable to break all cc and mitigate a ton of damage, an easy "oh HAMSTER" button that you just pretty much mash on. If things get really tough, gwf can run as fast or faster than a 110% mount to grab a potion or whatever. Does that sound like a class that needs a mastermind behind the wheel?

- There are 3 GWF builds. Just because one is better than the other two, it doesn't mean that no-one plays em. For example, destroyer is still better than sentinel in PvE and early PvP due to how much of an investment intimidation build needs now. Anything bellow 8k power is simply a chore.
- Now go into PvP and try to hit someone 'without even looking'. What a dumb excuse.
- You need to lose HALF your HP to get into unstoppable state for 8 seconds max. How does that help against anyone? You can as well be kited for those 8 seconds and then get CCd and one shot the moment you return to normal.
- Yeah, GWF can run alright. But he has no 2 second dodge immunity that every other class but SW and GF (but hey, SW has range and GF has block, which beats unstoppable anytime). And that means a lot for a melee class. I lost the count of how many times I got 1-2 shot in epic dungeons even when sprinting.

You obviously haven't really played a GWF, have you?

silverkelt

I think complicated is different then difficult. Clearly people are voting for GWF due to how weak they are at the moment, as compared to other classes that is, and depending somewhat on build.

I believe all classes in this game are less complicated then say , some of the other MMO's ive played, since you only have so many combinations to remember, some other games Ive played had up to 30-40 different ones involved and you would literally be clicking or keyboard binding dozens of things to get through them.

GWF is clearly the weakest class atm, but wouldn't say the most complicated.
SW , then maybe TR, HR. CW has lots of encounters that are useful, so you kind of need to know what to do with it.

jeffro9000

zvieris wrote: »

You obviously haven't really played a GWF, have you?

http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char%28Jeffrina%20Jones@jeffro9000%29/charactersheet

Haven't played her for a while, but I would say I have played it enough to understand the class.

benskix2

People seem to be confusing poorly designed with complicated to play in this poll. Changing your build to account for absurd class changes might be complicated, but GWF gameplay is not complicated at all.

My vote goes for the current DCs. Encounters have 3 versions and you have to constantly switch in and out of divine mode to take advantage of the zero cooldown divinity powers. People think DCs are OP now and most aren't even scratching the surface of the classes current skill cap.

zvieris

jeffro9000 wrote: »

http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char%28Jeffrina%20Jones@jeffro9000%29/charactersheet

Haven't played her for a while, but I would say I have played it enough to understand the class.

Well then, have you played Intimidation or a sentinel GWF for that matter? Because you wouldn't kill a fly with 3k power let alone "without even looking".

zacazu

benskix2 wrote: »

People seem to be confusing poorly designed with complicated to play in this poll.

you have a point. but against certain stereotype, my vote is for gwf (in a balanced utopic world ,ranger).

edit for dont reply more than necessary: zan is the most complex charater of street of rage, but... you know.

helpimblindinrl

I don't have cerebral palsy so I'm going to say none of them. Good Luck guys, hang in there.

avengingangel93

vverg wrote: »

But PvE: Archery HR (they are really in bad spot, also in PvP a very hard path)

I'm an archery spec in PvE, I don't PvP anymore because of the way things are and they're just too squishy now. I dislike combat and trapper HR specs, and I don't play any other class religiously anymore, so HR all the way for me!

I picked TR. The mechanics of a stealth-based class have always flummoxed me.