Ehm... Did y even read my post? Or saw "cw" and started to type? Pve is a joke in this game. For any class if ppl know what they are doing. Devs tried to make WoD lairs a little bit harder. Result - ppl whining bosses in there are overpowered. We wont ever get anything with that attitude. That's my point.
Ehm... Did y even read my post? Or saw "cw" and started to type? Pve is a joke in this game. For any class if ppl know what they are doing. Devs tried to make WoD lairs a little bit harder. Result - ppl whining bosses in there are overpowered. We wont ever get anything with that attitude. That's my point.
As has been said many times, challenge is just fine. However, nothing short of an epic dungeon boss should be doing the sort of spike damage to one shot someone unlucky to be caught on the edge of a splat. Period. There are simply too many "ifs" to the lair boss mechanics to ensure that any one strategy will work for anyone, unless they are massively overgeared for the content and can laugh off 30k+ hits.
And while the game may be "forgiving to deaths" as has been said, deaths eat up injury kits and frustrate players when they have to start the fight from the beginning.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Again guys it is learning curve. While I have not died on these yet after a couple runs I am taking less damage and eating less pots and getting CCed less. Remember when people were having problems with Ghost Stories? Anybod die running it lately?
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited November 2014
Those guard drakes' tail whip is a real nuisance as well. I also wish the devs moved away from making every boss a fighter of some sort - the guy is supposed to be an alchemist, but has heavy armor on and wields a sword. Why not have him do more in the way of throwing potions/vials and such, (iirc, he does have 1 potion throw attack though). Maybe have him try to get to various storage racks to chug potions to bolster himself - which you can take out first if you're quick.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Honestly query I did just yesterday on my 10k SW. Died 3 times at the first big pull. Rage quit SW.
Tried diff techniques. I think im just not overly engaged with my SW like I was with all my other classes.
I, uhh, look I am not trying to be overly critical here but how did you get through enough campaigns to be in WoD and still only have 10k GS? I was 10k in blues when my SW hit 60. Took a bit to get her proper T2s and moved her to through the campaigns (never finished IWD, did the first part of ToD) and she's sitting at a little under 15.
I, uhh, look I am not trying to be overly critical here but how did you get through enough campaigns to be in WoD and still only have 10k GS? I was 10k in blues when my SW hit 60. Took a bit to get her proper T2s and moved her to through the campaigns (never finished IWD, did the first part of ToD) and she's sitting at a little under 15.
Uhh I failed Ghost stories lolololol
Remember when people were having problems with Ghost Stories? Anybod die running it lately?
And the requirement for Ghost Stories is I dont think there is a requirement except be lvl whatever for Neverdeath. Maybe I just read that above quoted part incorrectly.
Also I dont think WoD has any requirement except 10k GS. Which Is why I find people asking for scaling dragons kind of funny. 20 people 10k GS != 20 people 18k GS. So how is that going to work heh.
Oh I was not talking about GS requirements just how you got that far through the campaign without just ending up with better gear. I mean I have most classes at basic L60 gear and the lowest is around 14K. Admittedly when I am figuring out whether or not I like a class I usually bother to get it T2 gear (except my CW which is still redonkulous in ArchMage) just a bit confused that you could play it enough to get through ToD and still be 10K....
Oh I was not talking about GS requirements just how you got that far through the campaign without just ending up with better gear. I mean I have most classes at basic L60 gear and the lowest is around 14K. Admittedly when I am figuring out whether or not I like a class I usually bother to get it T2 gear (except my CW which is still redonkulous in ArchMage) just a bit confused that you could play it enough to get through ToD and still be 10K....
O um. Idk. Shes my most recent 60 maybe couple weeks. Havent really focused on any gear.
Shes in a full t1 set. Diabolist one. Some grand jewelry, BUT i think its the weapon and OF. they OF is just one of those dragon grimmores that lvl with you blue. and the mh is just some random blue weapon. I think thats the problem. Just not enough DPS/damage to work my way through. but yah full t1 set and grand jewelry will only get you 10k. W/o epic weapon/oh/shirt/pants.
and yah I know how to gear my characters I can run them all comfortably with little trouble cept my baby SW.
The Big drake stagger attack is cheap I admit but I've cleared this and the other new dungeon on my GF, TR, DC, CW, GWF, HR all solo between 14-17k GS and non of them came close to dying. Maybe lok specifically has a disadvantage in this fight, I dunno, mine is basically leadership and log since I have a CW. But I do know I wouldn't run the beam attack with those drakes, same reason I don't run steal time on my CW.
Red circles should always one shot you despite what dungeon you're running. Its the easiest tell in the world of gaming. I personally hate them, I think proper animation is tell enough for power moves, but that;s me.
I'm all for challenge, sure, but let's take a serious look at the Drake Pens final boss: the Master Alchemist.
If you're unfortunate enough to be stuck in the splat he opens with--while simultaneously dodging two rage drakes, and you have less than 28k HP....pray that your Soulforged is up because you're going to be kissing dirt. Even with the temp HP boost from Vampiric Embrace.
My 14.6 gs, 23k HP mono-target CW won the fight by spamming cc spells, though with the no-target fights of NWO it's not easy coz' the stupid IA tends to choose a foe which is already cc-ed.
Complacency was what almost did for my CW. I just dived in with casual confidence, like I do with most stuff, and soulforged popped almost immediately. That woke me up a bit and, yes, it's quite tight for space when you are trying to buy yourself a bit of quality potion time hehe.
I scraped by in the end and the second time I went in I showed that mob the respect it deserves, and thus had an easier time of it. I'm sure it will become routine in anotehr couple of attempts.
But, yes, loving that initial challenge and, yes, it does remind me of Ghost Stories where I initially died quite a lot thanks to those cruel green dragondudes.
I find it fairly easy on my (admittedly fairly geared) fury lock, as long as I pop TT right before I agro the room. Kf, wb, then DT boss, run in a circle to kite.
Collect loot.
I find it easier on my WK Sab pve rogue for some reason though, even though he is less geared. Just run in, stealth, smoke, stealth, blitz, lashing. Boss will usually be alone and less than 1/4 health at this point.
That is EXACTLY how to complete it easily. Avoid the warden while killing mobs, then focus on warden. Same holds true for the Master Alchemist in the other dungeon.
I think this is the mistake I've been making with my SW. I'm so used to strolling up to a lair boss and ignoring the adds while I smoke him with ease that I've been trying the same base strategy and she isn't well geared enough to get away with it. Time to change tactics methinks...
Oh I was not talking about GS requirements just how you got that far through the campaign without just ending up with better gear. I mean I have most classes at basic L60 gear and the lowest is around 14K. Admittedly when I am figuring out whether or not I like a class I usually bother to get it T2 gear (except my CW which is still redonkulous in ArchMage) just a bit confused that you could play it enough to get through ToD and still be 10K....
Level 60 and 10k GS is the only prerequisite for Well of Dragons, and level 60 the only one for Ghost Stories. It is quite possible to go into these as a fresh 60 and get squished like a bug. Definitely worse if you're not experienced with the class you're playing.
Edit: Agree that it's very important in all the lairs now that I've tried all three to deal with adds while avoiding the boss. Hit the bosses with AoE at the same time if you can, but the adds will paste you if you try to boss-burn while ignoring them.
I had not realized this. To be honest I always consider the boon trees to be post-60 leveling and had assumed you needed ToD to get WoD and hence had done Shara/ Dred....
Well I tried the Warden again last night on my 13k Fury SW and still died twice. Which is honestly better than I had been doing. I just don't have enough AoE DPS in my standard optimal rotation to burn down the 4 Black Dragonwings before they Hulk out. In the end I slotted every AoE skill I could and that did the trick.
It's frustrating as heck but I'm enjoying the challenge. Really highlights any deficiencies in your build and/or playstyle.
Agree that it's very important in all the lairs now that I've tried all three to deal with adds while avoiding the boss. Hit the bosses with AoE at the same time if you can, but the adds will paste you if you try to boss-burn while ignoring them.
And just when all the players have learned the golden rule of "adds first", that's when they introduce the boss who heals his adds.
Yes, I am talking about you, Guild Wars 1...
But, yes, loving that initial challenge and, yes, it does remind me of Ghost Stories where I initially died quite a lot thanks to those cruel green dragondudes.
Tsk, tsk, tsk... ...those are dragon_chicks_... ...even have female voice acoustics.
O um. Idk. Shes my most recent 60 maybe couple weeks. Havent really focused on any gear.
Shes in a full t1 set. Diabolist one. Some grand jewelry, BUT i think its the weapon and OF. they OF is just one of those dragon grimmores that lvl with you blue. and the mh is just some random blue weapon. I think thats the problem. Just not enough DPS/damage to work my way through. but yah full t1 set and grand jewelry will only get you 10k. W/o epic weapon/oh/shirt/pants.
and yah I know how to gear my characters I can run them all comfortably with little trouble cept my baby SW.
So, in brief, you were trying to kill a daily dungeon boss w/o ArmorPen, with low-ish damage and prbly low-ish power...
Just did this quest for the first time. Used my fresh 60 TR that's still in the process of gearing up. Complete annihilation. The drakes, the Alchemist, the adds whose presence I ignored (mostly due to being unaware that they were even there), they fell like flies. Maybe it's due to the immense damage that rogues can put out now, but I was expecting something... more.
Biggest issue i have with these fights is that apparently their strongest swings are not flagged in the usual way.
Both the warden and the alchemist have done massive hits to me that was barely indicated by them lifting the hilt above their head.
But then i also find the green cultists a right pain because their "wave motion" shot varies from a tickle to a wrecking ball, often in the very same fight. This makes it hard to know if i am in over my head or not.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
I'm all for challenge, sure, but let's take a serious look at the Drake Pens final boss: the Master Alchemist.
If you're unfortunate enough to be stuck in the splat he opens with--while simultaneously dodging two rage drakes, and you have less than 28k HP....pray that your Soulforged is up because you're going to be kissing dirt. Even with the temp HP boost from Vampiric Embrace.
And that's the easy stage of the fight. The adds...oh, the adds. FOUR more Rage Drakes? Elite level mobs...seriously? That's just waves one and two.
The final wave throws in an interrupt-happy Guard Drake, so if you're a SW like me, Dreadtheft is a mission to pull off its full duration--so you're left with your biggest gun either unusable or severely gimped. Did I mention the size of the room limits maneuverability?
I have 15k GS. Took me four tries to handle it solo. Now, there are those that are gonna say "lol, get a group then." Fine. This is a daily, though. A group should be needed if you want to get it done fast, but it should at most be a moderate challenge to get it done solo. I've seen epic dungeon bosses less challenging.
Either the adds should be toned down a notch or the power of the boss should be dialed back by 30 or so percent. You'd think he was packing napalm in whatever it is he throws at you.
HEHE i beat him with my 11 k SW the key is not to use DT and WB. ( w/o enchant and stone or healing pet)
Use Vampiric Embrace and curse your target always before use use this .
Next use Blades Harrowed storm or killing flame .( both VE and Blades are necrotic also i figth in close combat with HB)
And save your AP for the boss figth.
With TR is this super easy Smoke + PoB +hide GC (if MI and DS if WK) if you run out of steath use Sstrike.
Its super easy . W/O stone and healing pets.
MY CW DC HR GWF have zero problem to Desintegrate the boss on sigth GF have only time issue 8 min minimum for one instance and he is conq.
Just did this quest for the first time. Used my fresh 60 TR that's still in the process of gearing up. Complete annihilation. The drakes, the Alchemist, the adds whose presence I ignored (mostly due to being unaware that they were even there), they fell like flies. Maybe it's due to the immense damage that rogues can put out now, but I was expecting something... more.
If you're using smoke bomb, most of the waves of adds are not control immune, and have low hitpoints. They don't last very long. Whatever else you're doing with your rogue is basically gravy after that.
I haven't timed myself on my Tactician GF... definitely longer than on a DPSier character, but he still feels fine in there. Fighter's Recovery was needed and I did almost lose it once due to an irksome interrupt while trying to cast the daily. Henry-the-Alchemist helped out by kiting some of the adds for me. I love that little guy.
onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited November 2014
I'm hunting for repentant cultist keys, so I run these lairs daily on 9 toons spread across 6 classes. These boss fights require thought and decent gear, but every single class can solo them without problems or dying.
These are extremely well designed fights. My compliments to the designers.
...so give us the !(@#*& option to raise the difficulty of instances, like CoH or CO had.
Higher the difficulty, higher the mob toughness, damage, resistance to CC, spawn numbers, etc..
Higher the difficulty, higher the grade of average drops (at least blues, frequent purples)
Higher the difficulty, higher the rewards (so we can finish those !(#8@! campaigns a little bit more faster).
...and make that "higher difficulty" count, the highest difficulty almost being on par with Epic SoT in mob levels, so that people can actually try and find/make teams for dailies to do it together, and earn both bigger loots and bigger rewards. This will also discourage the poorly equipped BOT freaks from abusing the system, since no BOT is going to be able to clear higher difficulty alone.
Is that not an excellent way to promote more PvE and community cooperation??
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
What's the point in nerfing PvE content with whole new sets, artifacts and other stuff which makes it easy - too easy to be honest.
T1 and T2 dungeons should already scale to your party gearscore to make it fun again.
This minidungeon is quite difficult and praise the devs it is. Finally you need to move or use some potions. There should be more of it. You fight with a mob, you should avoid his attacks and not just stand there, hit and laugh.
0
gipsylassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 61
It's not fine, there's something wrong and it feels like a bug or even multiple bugs. I should not be getting one shot, by anything but an Epic Boss. Period. Add that the skills I am specifically trained in do not function properly and the health bar bug and the confined space in one, there's just far too many issues right now for these battles for my CW. Heck, I even got one shot while casting Maelstrom... I've never even been killed by an Epic Boss in one shot while casting Maelstrom... Then the next try, one of them interrupted my Maelstrom.... No, it's not fine. So, please stop saying it is.
I absolutely agree. Tried this quest today for the first time and gave up after being killed 4 times. I'm a CW with medium gear. I'd be fine if any of my control skills worked but none of them do as the boss (and some dragons) are immune to all of them.
Sure I could ask others for help but i shouldn't be *required* to do so.
I understand that some top equipped folks want challenge as well but this shouldn't be at the cost of medium equipped folks who are still trying to gear up.
This is extremely frustrating and I surely hope that something will be done about it.
It was a little tough, but I did it after dying once to that big splash attack which definitely does hit like a truck. Just gotta make sure to avoid damage as much as possible and try to deal with those adds since they can be pretty nasty while most of his damage is avoidable. 12k GS on a DC specced for healing. I slot in different powers and features for soloing, but none of my feats were really helpful here and I did it.
Comments
As has been said many times, challenge is just fine. However, nothing short of an epic dungeon boss should be doing the sort of spike damage to one shot someone unlucky to be caught on the edge of a splat. Period. There are simply too many "ifs" to the lair boss mechanics to ensure that any one strategy will work for anyone, unless they are massively overgeared for the content and can laugh off 30k+ hits.
And while the game may be "forgiving to deaths" as has been said, deaths eat up injury kits and frustrate players when they have to start the fight from the beginning.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Tried diff techniques. I think im just not overly engaged with my SW like I was with all my other classes.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I, uhh, look I am not trying to be overly critical here but how did you get through enough campaigns to be in WoD and still only have 10k GS? I was 10k in blues when my SW hit 60. Took a bit to get her proper T2s and moved her to through the campaigns (never finished IWD, did the first part of ToD) and she's sitting at a little under 15.
Uhh I failed Ghost stories lolololol
And the requirement for Ghost Stories is I dont think there is a requirement except be lvl whatever for Neverdeath. Maybe I just read that above quoted part incorrectly.
Also I dont think WoD has any requirement except 10k GS. Which Is why I find people asking for scaling dragons kind of funny. 20 people 10k GS != 20 people 18k GS. So how is that going to work heh.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
O um. Idk. Shes my most recent 60 maybe couple weeks. Havent really focused on any gear.
Shes in a full t1 set. Diabolist one. Some grand jewelry, BUT i think its the weapon and OF. they OF is just one of those dragon grimmores that lvl with you blue. and the mh is just some random blue weapon. I think thats the problem. Just not enough DPS/damage to work my way through. but yah full t1 set and grand jewelry will only get you 10k. W/o epic weapon/oh/shirt/pants.
and yah I know how to gear my characters
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Red circles should always one shot you despite what dungeon you're running. Its the easiest tell in the world of gaming. I personally hate them, I think proper animation is tell enough for power moves, but that;s me.
My 14.6 gs, 23k HP mono-target CW won the fight by spamming cc spells, though with the no-target fights of NWO it's not easy coz' the stupid IA tends to choose a foe which is already cc-ed.
I scraped by in the end and the second time I went in I showed that mob the respect it deserves, and thus had an easier time of it. I'm sure it will become routine in anotehr couple of attempts.
But, yes, loving that initial challenge and, yes, it does remind me of Ghost Stories where I initially died quite a lot thanks to those cruel green dragondudes.
I find it fairly easy on my (admittedly fairly geared) fury lock, as long as I pop TT right before I agro the room. Kf, wb, then DT boss, run in a circle to kite.
Collect loot.
I find it easier on my WK Sab pve rogue for some reason though, even though he is less geared. Just run in, stealth, smoke, stealth, blitz, lashing. Boss will usually be alone and less than 1/4 health at this point.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Level 60 and 10k GS is the only prerequisite for Well of Dragons, and level 60 the only one for Ghost Stories. It is quite possible to go into these as a fresh 60 and get squished like a bug. Definitely worse if you're not experienced with the class you're playing.
Edit: Agree that it's very important in all the lairs now that I've tried all three to deal with adds while avoiding the boss. Hit the bosses with AoE at the same time if you can, but the adds will paste you if you try to boss-burn while ignoring them.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It's frustrating as heck but I'm enjoying the challenge. Really highlights any deficiencies in your build and/or playstyle.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And just when all the players have learned the golden rule of "adds first", that's when they introduce the boss who heals his adds.
Yes, I am talking about you, Guild Wars 1...
Tsk, tsk, tsk... ...those are dragon_chicks_... ...even have female voice acoustics.
So, in brief, you were trying to kill a daily dungeon boss w/o ArmorPen, with low-ish damage and prbly low-ish power...
...how could this possibly not work on first try?
Both the warden and the alchemist have done massive hits to me that was barely indicated by them lifting the hilt above their head.
But then i also find the green cultists a right pain because their "wave motion" shot varies from a tickle to a wrecking ball, often in the very same fight. This makes it hard to know if i am in over my head or not.
HEHE i beat him with my 11 k SW the key is not to use DT and WB. ( w/o enchant and stone or healing pet)
Use Vampiric Embrace and curse your target always before use use this .
Next use Blades Harrowed storm or killing flame .( both VE and Blades are necrotic also i figth in close combat with HB)
And save your AP for the boss figth.
With TR is this super easy Smoke + PoB +hide GC (if MI and DS if WK) if you run out of steath use Sstrike.
Its super easy . W/O stone and healing pets.
MY CW DC HR GWF have zero problem to Desintegrate the boss on sigth GF have only time issue 8 min minimum for one instance and he is conq.
If you're using smoke bomb, most of the waves of adds are not control immune, and have low hitpoints. They don't last very long. Whatever else you're doing with your rogue is basically gravy after that.
I haven't timed myself on my Tactician GF... definitely longer than on a DPSier character, but he still feels fine in there. Fighter's Recovery was needed and I did almost lose it once due to an irksome interrupt while trying to cast the daily. Henry-the-Alchemist helped out by kiting some of the adds for me. I love that little guy.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
These are extremely well designed fights. My compliments to the designers.
Higher the difficulty, higher the mob toughness, damage, resistance to CC, spawn numbers, etc..
Higher the difficulty, higher the grade of average drops (at least blues, frequent purples)
Higher the difficulty, higher the rewards (so we can finish those !(#8@! campaigns a little bit more faster).
...and make that "higher difficulty" count, the highest difficulty almost being on par with Epic SoT in mob levels, so that people can actually try and find/make teams for dailies to do it together, and earn both bigger loots and bigger rewards. This will also discourage the poorly equipped BOT freaks from abusing the system, since no BOT is going to be able to clear higher difficulty alone.
Is that not an excellent way to promote more PvE and community cooperation??
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
T1 and T2 dungeons should already scale to your party gearscore to make it fun again.
This minidungeon is quite difficult and praise the devs it is. Finally you need to move or use some potions. There should be more of it. You fight with a mob, you should avoid his attacks and not just stand there, hit and laugh.
I absolutely agree. Tried this quest today for the first time and gave up after being killed 4 times. I'm a CW with medium gear. I'd be fine if any of my control skills worked but none of them do as the boss (and some dragons) are immune to all of them.
Sure I could ask others for help but i shouldn't be *required* to do so.
I understand that some top equipped folks want challenge as well but this shouldn't be at the cost of medium equipped folks who are still trying to gear up.
This is extremely frustrating and I surely hope that something will be done about it.