don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say hunters don't deserve such survivability. i'm also not talking about the millions of mobs in most dungeons.
what i meant was the fact that hunters have a choice to avoid attacks that can 1-shot them while melees have no choice but to tank/dodge it. hence the need for a superior form of survivability. like in shores of tuern with the guardians that have hit me for at least 28k hp whenever they enter melee range of me (so i avoid them like the plague), hunters rooting followed by a 1-shot (death if you can't daze, itc, or deflect it), drakes using fire spin (itc or dodge), and golems with their mega punch. things like that are what every ranged class has the option to avoid and continue attacking without being restricted.
About SoT - it can one shot my HR too. Boss and Golems do 350 000 damage. So nor deflect nor severity not Damage resistance can help us. only dodge. TR got it right imho in mod 5. But it may lead to more pvp problems as example. At least I do Expect whining about it.
The cause and effect is totally different, since it's not just deflect by itself that allows the combat HR to be a combat HR, ie, the game's fastest maneuvering, walking regen/LS tank. It's the net-web of multiple defense effects that rack up to its survivability, making it very difficult to take down without either a mega-high burst damage, or CCs, or both, as you already know.
With high deflect alone, things are a bit different. Without all of the chunks of defense, synergy-heals, buffs and etc., high deflect alone allows a more slower, controled rate of HP decline while under attack. It makes you tougher, but damage is still damage.
I see what you are saying. Well WM is nerfed in pvp in mod 5. even thought I don't expect it effect hard. yet -10 - 25% of heal in pvp. I guess we will see how all of this works live later
About SoT - it can one shot my HR too. Boss and Golems do 350 000 damage. So nor deflect nor severity not Damage resistance can help us. only dodge.
kinda exaggerating. they can't 1-shot through deflect at all except for the golem's sword slam. their attacks are generally 25-33k or so on non-deflects for me.
New mod5, the off-hand artifact weapon and its tenacious concealment related power, is going to give most TRs what they want -- IF they slot tencon.
No stealth depletion upon attack received. You can't force out a TR with damage any more. Also, stealth refills without depleting. It just stops momentarily when damage received.
So in a strange way, we sort of got what we wished for with stealth changes.
I am sure a saboteur would love that and find it useful. I don't see it as having any value for an executioner and little to none for a scoundrel (WK maybe, but not an MI) and only useful for PvP at that.
When I mentioned the HR it wasn't to have both classes more similar in skills and abilities, it was to set up a comparison that combat HRs are generally what TRs SHOULD be in regard to mobility, defensive tools and nimble combat.
Instead, the TR is slow, has very few defensive tools, and damage isn't too great either, all of it contributes to make it harder to survive a both in solo and group PVE.
Nature's Enhancement 5 When switching to Melee Stance, increase your Deflect Severity by 5/10/15/20/25% for 5 seconds
^knew there was a heroic feat for that
kinda exaggerating. they can't 1-shot through deflect at all except for the golem's sword slam. their attacks are generally 25-33k or so on non-deflects for me.
5% top. not 25% - read carefully. plus you don't switch stances that often unless you are trapper.
In sacrifase of enocounter damage or at-will damage. Does not worse it or crit.
boss hits 350k. got once in log. Golems area is 35k only. Sword for golems is one shot kill for HR too. even with 40% dr and 50% deflect severity. Don't remember number out of top of my had.
Like I sad before I love both classes. Just corection of wrong stuff you provide. Don't raise forum was out of this.
5% top. not 25% - read carefully. plus you don't switch stances that often unless you are trapper.
In sacrifase of enocounter damage or at-will damage. Does not worse it or crit.
boss hits 350k. got once in log. Golems area is 35k only. Sword for golems is one shot kill for HR too. even with 40% dr and 50% deflect severity. Don't remember number out of top of my had.
Like I sad before I love both classes. Just corection of wrong stuff you provide. Don't raise forum was out of this.
did they nerf that since the last time i tested a hunter out? was very sure that it existed like that in the beginning.
and i highly doubt 350k is possible. if it did, i wouldn't be able to tank garakas after the rest of my team died and even survived the occassional non-deflects when i messed up (hard to not make mistakes since it's a long fight to solo)
not trying to make a forum war but just making sure there is nothing but facts in here
edit: just recorded some logs
golem's punch did 68k base damage and it dropped down to 7.6k on a deflect
garakas hand blast did 53k base damage and it dropped down to 6k on a deflect
all i know is that's the normal damage i take regardless of party composition. based on logs, it seems that i have an actual mitigation of 89%.....
I'm still confused about some things, as an executioner most likely, whether to use BI corrupt or profound...Hopefully still profound. Or Df or GC with 10 points in Sabo. I think as executioner probably just stick with DF and only 5 points in sabo. Need to test more, doubt I'd even be able to notice profound bonus with how quickly stealth drains. GC is just painful, one slow steady strike is very boring for my TR, she is in adamant protest.
For an Executioner I see stealth as simply something you use to power up before a big attack, and so I would say no on profound and no on ICS as well. Any profound or ICS bonus will generally be far less than it shows. I am sure one can manage a few attacks with practice with stealth before a Lashing (or whatever) but you run the risk of blowing your stealth on at wills. I say this as a person who dislikes GC as the jerky motion of it can sometimes trigger my migraines (I like to pretend it is the annoying sound but I am sure it is the motion), I don't know how GC works with exe as I have not and will not be testing it.
A play style without stealth isn't so fun for me but I am PVE so exe is better...I already have 0 in ICS though. Some things to consider thanks for the insight
golem's punch did 68k base damage and it dropped down to 7.6k on a deflect
garakas hand blast did 53k base damage and it dropped down to 6k on a deflect
Out of curiosity what was your sheet DR and sheet deflect severity?
now that i think about it, they could give some aoe resist feat to scoundrels so they take even less damage regardless of whether they deflect or not. but that might be too much so idk.
did they nerf that since the last time i tested a hunter out? was very sure that it existed like that in the beginning.
and i highly doubt 350k is possible. if it did, i wouldn't be able to tank garakas after the rest of my team died and even survived the occassional non-deflects when i messed up (hard to not make mistakes since it's a long fight to solo)
not trying to make a forum war but just making sure there is nothing but facts in here
edit: just recorded some logs
golem's punch did 68k base damage and it dropped down to 7.6k on a deflect
garakas hand blast did 53k base damage and it dropped down to 6k on a deflect
all i know is that's the normal damage i take regardless of party composition. based on logs, it seems that i have an actual mitigation of 89%.....
well i solo him too. but cone he makes is deadly to me. same as golem sword drop. with 40% damage resistance.
it was 5% as soon as i remember. Maybe on beta of HR or so. But in end of mod 2 and 3 it was 5 %.
More testings with Tenacious Concealment, and the TenCon improvement off-hand artifact power.
...
The re-stealth issue is totally resolved. At least in PvE
Ofcourse, like all things it ain't for free. You have to work for it.
At least use as much brains to target and take out the ranged mobs first, and fast. From that point on most of the melee mobs can be easily kited around with dodges. No depletion from received attacks, constant small dodge recovery from feat, and a bit of kiting and voila -- easy restealth even without SS.
(ps) PotB destealth cheese is now officially, and perfectly countered.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
90% is not far different from 95% which however is still less than 100%. So i really dont think is problem is solved.
and trying to solving this throught gear is a wrong choice.
90% is not far different from 95% which however is still less than 100%. So i really dont think is problem is solved.
and trying to solving this throught gear is a wrong choice.
It's 100% stealth protection.
There is no stealth meter depletion no matter how much you are attacked. Every dodge refills stealth and it stays, never depleted. It is very noticeable even in PvP, particular against CW/HRs those would have your stealth go poof with all them DoTs.
Try it, and see for yourself before jumping to conclusions, bro.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
There is no stealth meter depletion no matter how much you are attacked. Every dodge refills stealth and it stays, never depleted. It is very noticeable even in PvP, particular against CW/HRs those would have your stealth go poof with all them DoTs.
Try it, and see for yourself before jumping to conclusions, bro.
if its really like that is a bug, the class feature is supposed to be increased of an additional 5% = 95%.
probably the remaining 5% is not enough to appreciate any kind of loss.
oh well good addition to my off hand for sure
if its really like that is a bug, the class feature is supposed to be increased of an additional 5% = 95%.
probably the remaining 5% is not enough to appreciate any kind of loss.
oh well good addition to my off hand for sure
I don't think it's a bug. TenCon is +30/+30/+30, and the feature adds extra 10. We all assumed it would be multiplicative like Cryptic math usually is, but in this case, a straight 10% additive -- giving stealth meter immunity to damage.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Where do I find more info about the artifact?
While I like that there's an option now, I think having it on a hard to get piece of gear really isn't the best approach.
I think stealth SHOULD be always recovering when outside of stealth, no needing any specific gear, that just makes it harder for those less equipped.
Where do I find more info about the artifact?
While I like that there's an option now, I think having it on a hard to get piece of gear really isn't the best approach.
I think stealth SHOULD be always recovering when outside of stealth, no needing any specific gear, that just makes it harder for those less equipped.
go on preview, bazaar, preview tab, buy your weapon...continue to buy it to see every class feature possible
Perma TR's more OP then eva. Gloaming Cut spam with 100% crit and 3 stealth regen encounters lmao. I predict gazillion cry nerf threads if this goes live.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Perma TR's more OP then eva. Gloaming Cut spam with 100% crit and 3 stealth regen encounters lmao. I predict gazillion cry nerf threads if this goes live.
This is what i have been saying several times, but my posts keep getting deleted.. Its gonna be a sad day for pvp if this goes live, 100% critchance in stealth is not a good idea.
Yeah I don't understand why they made an even easier perma stealth, especially when going through the aggravation of making at wills drain stealth. I am really left shaking my head in confusion over it. That is why I am going to play an executioner TR if this goes live. There will be less crying about them as it is basically a TR without stealth. Now they do hit hard -- not as hard as other classes -- but hard for a TR.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
I finally had a chance to take one of my WKs for a spin, and while I only had an hour or so to fiddle around with some IWD HEs, I had fun with it.
On live, this character is a WK executioner (dipped into scoundrel) with some wasted feat points into buffing VP, which I no longer use. I play him as hybrid ranged/melee, using Dish/DF, Blitz/Dazing Strike/Shadow Strike, and WoB/Hateful Knives. I've noticed people pooh-poohing feating HK, but it's actually been a nice lead-in to DF with the stealth refill. I didn't get a chance to see how it works out with the preview changes.
GS around 15k. Scavenger set, CN weapons, purple artifacts including a very ranked-up DC one in the active slot. Greater plague, lesser soul. Allure stone. Nothing extraordinary. I probably run with a bigger HP pool than a lot of PvE-focused players.
I purposely did not use my artifact and removed my dark enchants from utility slots to get a feel for basic mobility and AP gain.
I tried WK scoundrel with a dip into sab to be able to feat Dish.
For my dry run, I opted to change very little in my approach to playing this character, other than recognizing that tagging everything with Dish from stealth was out. Sometimes I'd have time for two strikes and then an encounter, maybe with WoB from stealth too if it was up.
I tested the new build on the 3-5 player undead encounters in Dwarven Valley. I did not have more trouble soloing these up to the same point that I can on the live server. Dazes effectively take on the defensive roll of stealth. Play is maybe slightly more demanding due to not always being able to daze every monster, but the clock ran out on me at around the same point it usually does if nobody else shows up to the encounter. I cannot take on the spawns of three deathlock wights without dying quickly, but that always was beyond me, so I'm not feeling cheated over it.
I was admittedly not that great at timing encounters to make the best possible use of Skullcracker, but I could see it made a big difference to my control when it was up and I made use of it as opposed to when it was up and my AoEs were still on cooldown. It was hard to tell if my DoTs were extending dazes. I was out of stealth a lot, using it for repositioning and ensuring Concussive triggers, and occasionally to escape getting swarmed.
I had a little bit more time to be able to change my armor set to a Master Duelist I had in reserve and clear a couple of the 2-3 person heroics, and this actually felt a bit punchier, since I wasn't trying to maintain stealth for long periods and the set bonus made up some of the loss of Dazzling Blades. I want to try this on the 3-5 player encounters.
Now I'm looking at making two pieces of black ice armor to do a mixed set with Draconic drops (have gotten the arms and boots twice over with this guy), just so I can try it out with glyphs... I'm actually thinking green ones.
i dont believe to this...
can you please tell me how many HP and how much dex/cha do you have to reach that 50% deflect?
raw deflect rating?
me with 16 charisma, 20 dex and 1500 deflect i m at about 28% deflect which isnt remotely comparable to other classes except cw.
cause charisma bonus damage does not work so those are points kinda wasted
It's true my tr can also get to 50+ deflection chance almost same stats as this guy above me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
This is what i have been saying several times, but my posts keep getting deleted.. Its gonna be a sad day for pvp if this goes live, 100% critchance in stealth is not a good idea.
Actually it's a great idea, for PVE. I posted in the very beginning of the feedback thread that auto-crit would be a great dividing factor for PVP/PVE. Or a global 15-30% damage debuff for the TR class in PVP. Either of these and stealth drain in pvp, but not PVE would balance rogue in those two areas. Which would allow some considerable improvement to the rogue class, which it still needs.
As much as some people would argue otherwise, perma-stealth isn't an issue in PVE, and it's not dead in preview anyway. So at-will stealth drain doesn't need to be there, it just cramps a lot of people's play-styles and makes a lot of at-wills much weaker or stronger depending on their stealth drain factor.
With stealth drain in pvp and gloaming included in this, and auto-crit removed, then the rogue class can get all those juicy stat buffs, deflection bonuses, encounter and daily improvements, move speed increases....... without being a complete monster in pvp. Right now we have the TR class still unforgivably weak in PVE, and verging on the edge of OP in PVP. Something has to give, something HAS to be different for the rogue class in PVP and PVE. They did it for GWF prones, why can't they do it for the TR class, it would make balancing the class so much easier.
Comments
About SoT - it can one shot my HR too. Boss and Golems do 350 000 damage. So nor deflect nor severity not Damage resistance can help us. only dodge. TR got it right imho in mod 5. But it may lead to more pvp problems as example. At least I do Expect whining about it.
I see what you are saying. Well WM is nerfed in pvp in mod 5. even thought I don't expect it effect hard. yet -10 - 25% of heal in pvp. I guess we will see how all of this works live later
Nature's Enhancement 5 When switching to Melee Stance, increase your Deflect Severity by 5/10/15/20/25% for 5 seconds
^knew there was a heroic feat for that
kinda exaggerating. they can't 1-shot through deflect at all except for the golem's sword slam. their attacks are generally 25-33k or so on non-deflects for me.
I am sure a saboteur would love that and find it useful. I don't see it as having any value for an executioner and little to none for a scoundrel (WK maybe, but not an MI) and only useful for PvP at that.
Instead, the TR is slow, has very few defensive tools, and damage isn't too great either, all of it contributes to make it harder to survive a both in solo and group PVE.
http://nwcalc.com/hr?b=cn4:13ydj4:13ydj4,1000000:100000:100000:100000&h=0&p=swd
I wish it was 25% .
5% top. not 25% - read carefully. plus you don't switch stances that often unless you are trapper.
In sacrifase of enocounter damage or at-will damage. Does not worse it or crit.
boss hits 350k. got once in log. Golems area is 35k only. Sword for golems is one shot kill for HR too. even with 40% dr and 50% deflect severity. Don't remember number out of top of my had.
Like I sad before I love both classes. Just corection of wrong stuff you provide. Don't raise forum was out of this.
did they nerf that since the last time i tested a hunter out? was very sure that it existed like that in the beginning.
and i highly doubt 350k is possible. if it did, i wouldn't be able to tank garakas after the rest of my team died and even survived the occassional non-deflects when i messed up (hard to not make mistakes since it's a long fight to solo)
not trying to make a forum war but just making sure there is nothing but facts in here
edit: just recorded some logs
golem's punch did 68k base damage and it dropped down to 7.6k on a deflect
garakas hand blast did 53k base damage and it dropped down to 6k on a deflect
all i know is that's the normal damage i take regardless of party composition. based on logs, it seems that i have an actual mitigation of 89%.....
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
Out of curiosity what was your sheet DR and sheet deflect severity?
resist = 34.7%
deflect severity = 75.2%
aoe resist = 20.3% (17% from dex)
now that i think about it, they could give some aoe resist feat to scoundrels so they take even less damage regardless of whether they deflect or not. but that might be too much so idk.
68*(1-.347)*(1-.203)*(1-.752) = 6.85
68*(1-.55)*(1-.752) = 7.59
68*(1-.347)*(1-.203)*(1-.752) = 8.7
I think you may have just proven AoE resist is additive to DR? Dunno. Never thought about.
it's 1 of those stats that are there but you never notice since it's overshadowed by everything else
well i solo him too. but cone he makes is deadly to me. same as golem sword drop. with 40% damage resistance.
it was 5% as soon as i remember. Maybe on beta of HR or so. But in end of mod 2 and 3 it was 5 %.
...
The re-stealth issue is totally resolved. At least in PvE
Ofcourse, like all things it ain't for free. You have to work for it.
At least use as much brains to target and take out the ranged mobs first, and fast. From that point on most of the melee mobs can be easily kited around with dodges. No depletion from received attacks, constant small dodge recovery from feat, and a bit of kiting and voila -- easy restealth even without SS.
(ps) PotB destealth cheese is now officially, and perfectly countered.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
and trying to solving this throught gear is a wrong choice.
It's 100% stealth protection.
There is no stealth meter depletion no matter how much you are attacked. Every dodge refills stealth and it stays, never depleted. It is very noticeable even in PvP, particular against CW/HRs those would have your stealth go poof with all them DoTs.
Try it, and see for yourself before jumping to conclusions, bro.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
if its really like that is a bug, the class feature is supposed to be increased of an additional 5% = 95%.
probably the remaining 5% is not enough to appreciate any kind of loss.
oh well good addition to my off hand for sure
I don't think it's a bug. TenCon is +30/+30/+30, and the feature adds extra 10. We all assumed it would be multiplicative like Cryptic math usually is, but in this case, a straight 10% additive -- giving stealth meter immunity to damage.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
While I like that there's an option now, I think having it on a hard to get piece of gear really isn't the best approach.
I think stealth SHOULD be always recovering when outside of stealth, no needing any specific gear, that just makes it harder for those less equipped.
go on preview, bazaar, preview tab, buy your weapon...continue to buy it to see every class feature possible
This is what i have been saying several times, but my posts keep getting deleted.. Its gonna be a sad day for pvp if this goes live, 100% critchance in stealth is not a good idea.
On live, this character is a WK executioner (dipped into scoundrel) with some wasted feat points into buffing VP, which I no longer use. I play him as hybrid ranged/melee, using Dish/DF, Blitz/Dazing Strike/Shadow Strike, and WoB/Hateful Knives. I've noticed people pooh-poohing feating HK, but it's actually been a nice lead-in to DF with the stealth refill. I didn't get a chance to see how it works out with the preview changes.
GS around 15k. Scavenger set, CN weapons, purple artifacts including a very ranked-up DC one in the active slot. Greater plague, lesser soul. Allure stone. Nothing extraordinary. I probably run with a bigger HP pool than a lot of PvE-focused players.
I purposely did not use my artifact and removed my dark enchants from utility slots to get a feel for basic mobility and AP gain.
I tried WK scoundrel with a dip into sab to be able to feat Dish.
For my dry run, I opted to change very little in my approach to playing this character, other than recognizing that tagging everything with Dish from stealth was out. Sometimes I'd have time for two strikes and then an encounter, maybe with WoB from stealth too if it was up.
I tested the new build on the 3-5 player undead encounters in Dwarven Valley. I did not have more trouble soloing these up to the same point that I can on the live server. Dazes effectively take on the defensive roll of stealth. Play is maybe slightly more demanding due to not always being able to daze every monster, but the clock ran out on me at around the same point it usually does if nobody else shows up to the encounter. I cannot take on the spawns of three deathlock wights without dying quickly, but that always was beyond me, so I'm not feeling cheated over it.
I was admittedly not that great at timing encounters to make the best possible use of Skullcracker, but I could see it made a big difference to my control when it was up and I made use of it as opposed to when it was up and my AoEs were still on cooldown. It was hard to tell if my DoTs were extending dazes. I was out of stealth a lot, using it for repositioning and ensuring Concussive triggers, and occasionally to escape getting swarmed.
I had a little bit more time to be able to change my armor set to a Master Duelist I had in reserve and clear a couple of the 2-3 person heroics, and this actually felt a bit punchier, since I wasn't trying to maintain stealth for long periods and the set bonus made up some of the loss of Dazzling Blades. I want to try this on the 3-5 player encounters.
Now I'm looking at making two pieces of black ice armor to do a mixed set with Draconic drops (have gotten the arms and boots twice over with this guy), just so I can try it out with glyphs... I'm actually thinking green ones.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It's true my tr can also get to 50+ deflection chance almost same stats as this guy above me.
Actually it's a great idea, for PVE. I posted in the very beginning of the feedback thread that auto-crit would be a great dividing factor for PVP/PVE. Or a global 15-30% damage debuff for the TR class in PVP. Either of these and stealth drain in pvp, but not PVE would balance rogue in those two areas. Which would allow some considerable improvement to the rogue class, which it still needs.
As much as some people would argue otherwise, perma-stealth isn't an issue in PVE, and it's not dead in preview anyway. So at-will stealth drain doesn't need to be there, it just cramps a lot of people's play-styles and makes a lot of at-wills much weaker or stronger depending on their stealth drain factor.
With stealth drain in pvp and gloaming included in this, and auto-crit removed, then the rogue class can get all those juicy stat buffs, deflection bonuses, encounter and daily improvements, move speed increases....... without being a complete monster in pvp. Right now we have the TR class still unforgivably weak in PVE, and verging on the edge of OP in PVP. Something has to give, something HAS to be different for the rogue class in PVP and PVE. They did it for GWF prones, why can't they do it for the TR class, it would make balancing the class so much easier.