I like the need = BOP/greed = BOE loot rule. I think that would cut down on a lot of griefing when it comes to need/greed loot rolls.
I also like the idea of hard dungeons dropping an item from the loot table, perhaps items that may not have dropped in other places before as BOE loot (like Black Ice Bracers).
But I don't like the "loot crystal" idea. It kills the whole story behind doing a dungeon in the first place. The whole idea is that in the depths of this deep dark dungeon lies hidden and powerful items, and that a party of intrepid adventurers gets the loot only after conquering the challenges of the dungeon. If the loot is just for sale at some vendor, then what's so special about a dungeon? Might as well just get rid of dungeons entirely in that case and put Loot Crystals for sale in the zen store or something. In that respect I'm not a big fan of how the loot at MC and VT is handled, but at least you can think of a plausible storyline for it, i.e., the elves of Sharandar will reward you with rare Elvish gear if you defeat Malabog (and bring back the Seals as proof). But just putting Black Ice Bracers or Draconic Main Hands for sale at some vendor - nah.
I like the need = BOP/greed = BOE loot rule. I think that would cut down on a lot of griefing when it comes to need/greed loot rolls.
I also like the idea of hard dungeons dropping an item from the loot table, perhaps items that may not have dropped in other places before as BOE loot (like Black Ice Bracers).
But I don't like the "loot crystal" idea. It kills the whole story behind doing a dungeon in the first place. The whole idea is that in the depths of this deep dark dungeon lies hidden and powerful items, and that a party of intrepid adventurers gets the loot only after conquering the challenges of the dungeon. If the loot is just for sale at some vendor, then what's so special about a dungeon? Might as well just get rid of dungeons entirely in that case and put Loot Crystals for sale in the zen store or something. In that respect I'm not a big fan of how the loot at MC and VT is handled, but at least you can think of a plausible storyline for it, i.e., the elves of Sharandar will reward you with rare Elvish gear if you defeat Malabog (and bring back the Seals as proof). But just putting Black Ice Bracers or Draconic Main Hands for sale at some vendor - nah.
The biggest reason something like that has to be in games like this is when players farm over and over and over and have no control over getting gear. Im not saying it should take 5 runs to buy any piece you want, but maybe 15-20 runs?
I remember farming my off hand on my GWF in MC, it took me 29 runs.... I saw COUNTLESS offhands for all other classes and it REALLY pissed me off and killed my motivation to play. If I knew I had RNG the entire way, and if THAT failed (bad luck, lost rolls or w.e) THEN I could rely on getting SOMETHING from each run it would make me feel ALOT better.
Imagine if each Epic HE dropped a special "coin" and with 20 coins you could buy bracers, and 30 could buy weapon. Then you would KNOW you can farm it.
This entire "RNG" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that doesnt even involve DUNGEONS is just SAD!
Bring back dungeons, bring back GOOD loot tables (Players HATE killing a boss and seeing NO GOOD DROPS) introduce a SLOWER method for farming gear that is guaranteed and players will be happy and farm ALL DAY LONG!
Oh and 1 last thing, Artifacts and Artifact gear should be Bound to Account. Period. Nothing kills desire to play more than one character than having to pay millions for artifacts and artifact gear..
maybe a good idea to also loot is something like this: every time you manage to complete the dungeon or an HE your individual loot grow something like 0.1% when the item finally drop - because his next of this loot 100% - it would automatically reset and the cycle would begin again. This in fact would encourage the farm, but guarantee a prize at the end of the cycle! Would not say how sad and indeed it is said! Furthermore I agree with everything you said and I hope the devs read this post, because this is so productive! congratulations!
I do agree, mod 3 introduced the dumbest loot drop system I have ever seen, should have been better thought out. I would do a full system update in-between mods to fix mod 3 and 4.
I do agree, mod 3 introduced the dumbest loot drop system I have ever seen, should have been better thought out. I would do a full system update in-between mods to fix mod 3 and 4.
This exactly.
What they should have done is have all the BASE blackice gear have the ability to drop from the epic skirmish. As well as purchased - but not for blackice.
Each heroic encounter and epic HE awards "coins" or "currency" upon completion. You use those + blackice to purchase the BASE blackice gear.
So now you have TWO methods. 1) Farm skirmish for RNG chance at the BASE gear - then upgrade it via professions. or 2) Farm HE and Epic HEs for Coins and then BUY the base gear.
This eliminates players from having to be lucky enough to FIND an Epic HE for a decent chance at the drop. It also allows players a true method of getting gear that gives incentive to run the skirmish AND do ALL the HEs - not just the Epic ones.
I'd rather wipe 1 month trying to down a boss that i know will drop something for one of the classes, and then after we get the tactics right he can be farmed once a week.
THEN mindlessly farming the same skrimrish/dungeon 100 times a day for two months until i get what i want.
Dr. Phil
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
I don't agree with 100% drops, and I think you will notice a flood of very cheap salvage value items on the AH if it was 100% + mark bought.
In terms of Need = BoP/ Greed = BoE, that has been suggested countless times in the past and isn't anything new
I don't agree with 100% drops, and I think you will notice a flood of very cheap salvage value items on the AH if it was 100% + mark bought.
Im not too sure about that. Even until very recent even CN weapons used to sell for over 1 mil. For a LONG time those have been BOE and for over a year were almost always selling at high prices.
Especially if they limit the number of time you can run the dungeon to a daily, that removes ALOT of the "Farm" issues. Also, out of 5 people high chance the item that drops will be needed. chances of dropping 2 of the same item in a row is pretty low and would take about 2 weeks on average in order to SELL a piece of gear - unless it was one of the 2 classes not represented.
Then you could imagine guild members would get for a discount for a while.
Let me ask this, is it better that they do 100% drop then having BIS gear players can farm themselves in HEs and buy gear with mindless grinding and NO dungeon runs?
Id rather them introduce a dungeon that is hard, with 100% loot, with the BOP/BOE - NEED/GREED system and start having BIS gear hit the market for a nice price in mod 5 than ANYTHING we have had out thus far....
Just my 2 cents.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
I read this, and it's great, seriously.
How about super long, super hard dungeon. Each boss has different item (so six bosses in all). Or alternatively make shorter dungeons in a pack of six. (might be better idea).
I LOVE garunteed drops. Let's go run ELOL and get 100 rings of pain! thanks for the RAD, i'll refine that in 2015.
The problem is THE CONTENT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE HARD. Not this stuff like CN - throw a million adds at you - we know how to figure that out.
Not like eLOL - make things one shot you. At some point, that actually becomes annoying.
Maybe make the mechanics harder? maybe combine adds and mechanics? I'm not sure.
But not something we can faceroll or two man, please.
nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
The difference is that you cannot buy CN weapons with Drake Seals or other currencies. If you could, demand would instantly plummet.
Also consider that most other items in CN (rings/amulet/belt) with few exceptions sell at salvage value since mod2.
The prices of them have dropped a lot previously as well, but have always been manipulated back by folks who hold the vast majority of AD in the game, who have an interest in keeping the price high (just as for many other items)
How about super long, super hard dungeon. Each boss has different item (so six bosses in all). Or alternatively make shorter dungeons in a pack of six. (might be better idea).
I LOVE garunteed drops. Let's go run ELOL and get 100 rings of pain! thanks for the RAD, i'll refine that in 2015.
The problem is THE CONTENT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE HARD. Not this stuff like CN - throw a million adds at you - we know how to figure that out.
Not like eLOL - make things one shot you. At some point, that actually becomes annoying.
Maybe make the mechanics harder? maybe combine adds and mechanics? I'm not sure.
But not something we can faceroll or two man, please.
Well You nailed it. Honestly a REALLY simple solution to the concern above AND yours is just this:
- take the existing T1 dungeons and turn them into 10 man versions. GUT the dungeons of mobs - basically just use the layout etc, and then re-fill it with actual challenging encounters.
Trash should drop rank 7 enchants.
Trash should also drop RP stones.
Bosses should be ALOT harder but again - Final boss is 100% drop chance. BOP/BOE - NEED/GREED rules apply.
Dungeon access is granted as a daily quest as a part of the campaign that switches each day.
Now the DAILY is the DUNGEON that takes 10 players to run, has REAL loot and REAL challenges, DONT need new lore or content, so you can put all the work into the encounters in the dungeon!!!!!!
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
oh yeah ghost, that's true. I've even done it before XD.
now CN prices are so low and the dungeon seems to get laggier and laggier it's become a what's the point dungeon? If i was going to run it i would 2 or 3 man it. Not worth the aggrivation. 5 of us spend 30-40 minutes in there, go ahead and kill draco, and it's a DC symbol worth 60k? GG.
The difference is that you cannot buy CN weapons with Drake Seals or other currencies. If you could, demand would instantly plummet.
Also consider that most other items in CN (rings/amulet/belt) with few exceptions sell at salvage value since mod2.
The prices of them have dropped a lot previously as well, but have always been manipulated back by folks who hold the vast majority of AD in the game, who have an interest in keeping the price high (just as for many other items)
Oh maybe I mis-wrote but if you BOUGHT the item with currency it would be BOP not BOE....
Also, again, you dont have to make them easy to get. If each boss dropped 1 and it took 25 or 30 to get an item. It just limits the max number needed to get a certain item that isnt dropping.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Well You nailed it. Honestly a REALLY simple solution to the concern above AND yours is just this:
- take the existing T1 dungeons and turn them into 10 man versions. GUT the dungeons of mobs - basically just use the layout etc, and then re-fill it with actual challenging encounters.
Trash should drop rank 7 enchants.
Trash should also drop RP stones.
Bosses should be ALOT harder but again - Final boss is 100% drop chance. BOP/BOE - NEED/GREED rules apply.
Dungeon access is granted as a daily quest as a part of the campaign that switches each day.
Now the DAILY is the DUNGEON that takes 10 players to run, has REAL loot and REAL challenges, DONT need new lore or content, so you can put all the work into the encounters in the dungeon!!!!!!
My only problem with 10 man raids is the amount of lag it causes. It can get really bad in IWD.
I would love to see legendary versions of T1s tho. I love the design and layouts of them, but there's no point in running them. Imagine if they were actually hard! that would be awesome.
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
Imagine a dungeon like this one:
Assault on the Cult Fortress:
A big map, say the size of Dwarven Valley. A huge fortress of the Dragon Cult.
When the party enters the fortress they get primary goal and one or more lesser goals. Say: stop the Dracolich evocation as primary, kill the Cult Overlord before he escapes and collect the Dracolich Bones around the map as secondaries. The Cult Overlord changes everytime and there is no way to pre-determine what he'll be.
Final loot table determined by overall performance on all objectives and the objectives themselves. Drops determined by the objectives. Dracolich Bones could be a crating material for some recipes, the Dragon Cult leader could drop something related to what he his, stopping the evocation may give campaign points.
Make a mini-campaign for each dungeon so that people can buy boons with Dungeon currency and make the boons related to the Dungeon theme.
This way it will be more interesting to play the dungeon many times, we'll stop seeing requests for the same party composition in LFG because the boss is changing everytime and evreybody will get rewards of different kind.
This would be far more interesting than what we have.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
My only problem with 10 man raids is the amount of lag it causes. It can get really bad in IWD.
I would love to see legendary versions of T1s tho. I love the design and layouts of them, but there's no point in running them. Imagine if they were actually hard! that would be awesome.
Yeah you definitely can notice some frame-rate issues. However thats with any game. IWD is a large zone and alot of times people exceed the population cap by inviting friends which causes massive strain on the servers. So there IS a difference there.
I think 10 man groups could work fine! I dont even think it would require too much "rework" on the Que system. All they really need to do is add a # to the Que POP. So you MAKE two teams of 5 players, both Que for the 10 man, and when the Que POPs it would say specifically what Instance # your going into. Then accept it as both groups or try again and re-Q. Its not ideal, but WOULD work - much like premades in PVP do it today, or much like we Que for GG as a guild.
Having access be a "daily" thing - once per day, helps alleviate not only farming but the grouping issues. Because casual players can fairly easily find groups for these dungeons. The only issue I see is some sort of "D/C" or "kick" where a player looses access to the dungeon somehow.
But I do like limiting it to once per day as the new daily and NOT having more boons!!!
The biggest reason something like that has to be in games like this is when players farm over and over and over and have no control over getting gear. Im not saying it should take 5 runs to buy any piece you want, but maybe 15-20 runs?
Too bad, so sad. Better luck next time.
No really. Good loot should be won by defeating some hard boss in a dungeon. Not for sale from a vendor.
Your idea is literally turning dungeons into the equivalent of a daily. Like the ToD ones that everyone here complains about. Something that you just have to slog through 100+ times to obtain the currency, whether it be Cult Secrets or Loot Crystals, to get the item that you want. You're trivializing and cheapening the meaning of dungeons more than the existence of easy faceroll mobs would.
I remember farming my off hand on my GWF in MC, it took me 29 runs.... I saw COUNTLESS offhands for all other classes and it REALLY pissed me off and killed my motivation to play. If I knew I had RNG the entire way, and if THAT failed (bad luck, lost rolls or w.e) THEN I could rely on getting SOMETHING from each run it would make me feel ALOT better.
OMG you had to run MC *twenty-nine times*? Would you like a tissue?
Imagine if each Epic HE dropped a special "coin" and with 20 coins you could buy bracers, and 30 could buy weapon. Then you would KNOW you can farm it.
Well if Cryptic ever did implement this idea, you know darn well it wouldn't be only 20 or 30 coins. It would be more like 500 coins. (Just look at the very large number of secrets/sigils needed for the ToD final boons.) PLUS, they would then nerf the boss loot drop rate, because - well, why should it be as high as it is now because you can instead just get the gear you want with the Loot Crystals? You are complaining about running MC *twenty-nine times* before you got your offhand. Well, try making that 500 times. Still want to do it?
Please, no 10-person raids. No no no. If you want hardcore raiding, then go play a hardcore raiding game. This game is not a hardcore raiding game. I don't want dungeons to turn into a 6-hour commitment.
PROPOSED LOOT SYSTEM:
What NEEDS to happen is this.
1) Create a NEW dungeon (or make harder versions of old ones) in which bosses drop the SAME item for EACH class.
Boss 1) has a chance to drop EVERY classes boots. Guaranteed SOMEONES boots will drop.
Boss 2) Gloves. 100% chance to drop A pair of gloves, again BOP.
ETC ETC
FINAL BOSS) Drops A weapon piece (much like CN) - could be off hand, could be main hand. But its a guaranteed drop of SOME sorts.
CHEST: Drops RP stones. GOOD ones, maybe some other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like potions or crapy T1 items for RP.
MARKS: Some type of currency ALSO drops off each boss. That with enough farming you can PURCHASE ANY item from the loot tables.
I like the idea, but I would only like to see it happen if the dungeons became x10 harder, with deadly traps, stronger bosses, unavoidable damage, red spots that are very hard to avoid.
I that won't happen, then your idea is = World of Babycraft.....everything drops, you gear up in 3 days....and you're bored in 1 week.
Please, no 10-person raids. No no no. If you want hardcore raiding, then go play a hardcore raiding game. This game is not a hardcore raiding game. I don't want dungeons to turn into a 6-hour commitment.
10 man dosent have to be hardcore.. This game is so far from hardcore, 10 man raids would just make it seem ****ing human. Everything in this game can be bough, from potions to gear with real life money. Making a 10 man raid with actually BoP loot would give the people a sense of accomplishment.
I like the idea, but I would only like to see it happen if the dungeons became x10 harder, with deadly traps, stronger bosses, unavoidable damage, red spots that are very hard to avoid.
I that won't happen, then your idea is = World of Babycraft.....everything drops, you gear up in 3 days....and you're bored in 1 week.
While I get your exaggerating, if you read any subsequent posts, the 10 man idea or this idea in general would be a "daily" so in 3 days the most that would happen is likely 3 people would have one piece of their gear.
technically it would take a minimum of 4 days and alot of luck to get 4/4. Since each day would be a revolving dungeon and a "daily" so you can only do it once per day.
Please, no 10-person raids. No no no. If you want hardcore raiding, then go play a hardcore raiding game. This game is not a hardcore raiding game. I don't want dungeons to turn into a 6-hour commitment.
Whats different than a 10 man versus a 5 man raid besides the number of players? They would be the same dungeons and most likely take the same time as the 5 man, but require 10 people. I bet some "PRO" players could even do 7/8 players with skill......
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited October 2014
I like some of the suggestions, but... can ya show the coding as a suggestion too?
I see (and admittedly) make sugestions on things for in game, but not the coding. If I knew the coding system used here then I would certainly include it myself to make the suggestion better AND save time in implementing/ fixing things.
Makes this dragoness a bit twitchy to NOT be able to post coding fixes. I do understand Cryptic's need for keeping coding to themselves though so nobody can steal stuff for no work, or start to go messing about worse than a gold spammager.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Whats different than a 10 man versus a 5 man raid besides the number of players? They would be the same dungeons and most likely take the same time as the 5 man, but require 10 people. I bet some "PRO" players could even do 7/8 players with skill......
What's different? Well, the dungeon would have to be much harder and much longer in difficulty. Once again I don't want dungeons in this game to turn into 6-hour commitments. I am quite glad that the dungeons here last no more than 1 hour for most runs. That is a reasonable amount of time to allocate per day for acquiring gear. But if you want to expect 10 people to spend 6+ hours in a dungeon in order to get gear.... well then go play another game.
You're missing one very important point - the gear should be freaking desirable. Look at the draconic gear. Even if they make a dungeon with loot system you suggested, would it be satisfying to get a guarantee draconic bracers and boots from the first and the second boss respectively? No way. Before changing the loot system, they have to learn how to make the gear people will want.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
You're missing one very important point - the gear should be freaking desirable. Look at the draconic gear. Even if they make a dungeon with loot system you suggested, would it be satisfying to get a guarantee draconic bracers and boots from the first and the second boss respectively? No way. Before changing the loot system, they have to learn how to make the gear people will want.
Well i know exactly why that is.
They are making new gear undesirable because they want to make Rank 10 and Artifacts more desirable, stuff that costs real life money. If they made gear with better stats and made it more desirable, they would have to follow that path with every module and eventually gear would make a bigger difference then enchants (OH NO ISENT THAT NORMAL???). That is actually they way it should be.
But unfortunately their idea of running a business is that they'd rather have a smaller playerbase that spends a lot of individual money then have a huge playerbase (which this game has the potential to get) that spends a normal amount of money. Its clear to see what model they went for, but it is wrong and as you can see, this game dosent have a lot of old players left, there are plenty of new ones who will soon realize the same. But as long as they spend money who the **** cares right?
Obviously because most players have a life outside Neverwinter. We don't live there. So, to keep it fair from everyone, gear should not be gated by something as "exclusive" as that. I would not object to an ever changing gauntlet-like dungeon in itself, but don't hide exclusive gear at the end unless you keep the length to something that's playable for everyone. If it has the same drops as anything else, I wouldn't care how long it takes. I'd run it for the challenge alone.
While you're at it, make a solo version of said dungeon as well. Right now 90% of my time is spent in the foundry. While I have absolutely no objection to that and love doing them, the foundry has limitations that a dev-created randomized dungeon does not.
Well why do those people have to do hardcore stuff? I mean the fact that i have probably the same gear as one who spends 90% of his time in foundrys is just wrong. I think they should have some options for both types of players. Not just the ones who like solo playing. This is after all a MMOrpg, which means Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, which means there should be stuff in the game that requires 5-10 or even 20 people to work together to accomplish.
If person A does not want to do a 6 hour dungeon, why does he have to do it? Even you are saying that its the players fault they are overgearing, so something like this would be really simple for you to avoid. Most current dungeons are clearable with 15k gs and by the looks of you posts, you are satisfied with that and happy with the current gear as well. But why are you against adding something for the people who want something more difficult they need to work together on? I really dont understand why you are against it, are you a little boy who wants to do everything everyone else does, but dont want people to have more opportunities then you so you spam this forum with posts that its the players own fault they overgear and want more challenges?
This game has catered well to both casual players and you can even say in early beta it catered pretty well to some hardcore players because it had CN that was pretty hard with 10k gs. But im not going to strip down naked to do a CN run just for the challenge of it, and i certainly dont think cryptic want us to stop focusing on spending that dime on enchants and refining artifacts. So the playerbase is simply asking them for some actual content, that YOU dont have to worry about since you are a casual player.
The only problem I see is in this part. 5 players could run the content a dozen times and be done as far as the new equipment goes. That's what I would do. Grab 4 friends and just repeat grind it until we were all geared.
And what would your problem be with that paradigm? That someone has four friends they run with? Or that are in a guild? Or that loot drops actually make sense to the class you're in?
Let's face it, loot drops in almost any MMO anyone can mention follow almost no rhyme or reason. You kill a guy using a bow and he drops a wizard staff. You kill a tank and he drops a bow. You kill a rat and it drops a kite shield...or my personal favorite; you kill 20 skeletons and you don't find any bones.
I wanted to Necro this thread instead of starting a NEW one and further the suggestion I have made here.
One SOLUTION to creating a true "RAID" experience could be this.
RAID DETAILS:
- 10 man dungeon
- TWICE the length of CN (5 bosses Total)
- Weekly Reset on boss loot potential.
The idea behind 5 bosses is 1 boss for each armor TYPE:
Boss 1) Boots - its a 100% guarantee drop that SOMEONES boots will drop.
Boss 2) Gloves - ETC
Boss 5) MH/OH - ETC.
ATLEAST 1 persons gear is GUARANTEED to drop, with a second "loot slot" open with a POTENTIAL second loot drop. So it would not be uncommon to get TWO items off a boss (two different Pairs of gloves for instance)
KEY TO NEVERWINTER RAIDING:
When a person kills a certain boss, say Boss #1, His loot potential from THAT BOSS becomes "locked" for the week. What this means is if he gets a group to do Boss #1 and #2, if the next day he runs Boss #1 again, he will NOT be eligible to roll for that loot - he wont even see it. He already had his loot drop for the week.
he could STILL run boss #3 and get loot - because he has not received loot that week.
Why this works:
Because now Cryptic doesnt have to keep track of specific INSTANCES but can track this on a character basis. Its much easier to track that way.
Also, You would need to create some type of "campfire" system for these raids, where players could re-zone into their version at a specific campfire (where they left off) or join someone elses instance and start wherever THAT players last save was.
This way you COULD get a player who hasnt done Boss 1,2,3 but gets invited to finish bosses 4/5 for the week - maybe he already has the first three pieces of loot and doesnt want anymore....
So at the end of the day, it really promotes PVE!!!
Comments
I also like the idea of hard dungeons dropping an item from the loot table, perhaps items that may not have dropped in other places before as BOE loot (like Black Ice Bracers).
But I don't like the "loot crystal" idea. It kills the whole story behind doing a dungeon in the first place. The whole idea is that in the depths of this deep dark dungeon lies hidden and powerful items, and that a party of intrepid adventurers gets the loot only after conquering the challenges of the dungeon. If the loot is just for sale at some vendor, then what's so special about a dungeon? Might as well just get rid of dungeons entirely in that case and put Loot Crystals for sale in the zen store or something. In that respect I'm not a big fan of how the loot at MC and VT is handled, but at least you can think of a plausible storyline for it, i.e., the elves of Sharandar will reward you with rare Elvish gear if you defeat Malabog (and bring back the Seals as proof). But just putting Black Ice Bracers or Draconic Main Hands for sale at some vendor - nah.
The biggest reason something like that has to be in games like this is when players farm over and over and over and have no control over getting gear. Im not saying it should take 5 runs to buy any piece you want, but maybe 15-20 runs?
I remember farming my off hand on my GWF in MC, it took me 29 runs.... I saw COUNTLESS offhands for all other classes and it REALLY pissed me off and killed my motivation to play. If I knew I had RNG the entire way, and if THAT failed (bad luck, lost rolls or w.e) THEN I could rely on getting SOMETHING from each run it would make me feel ALOT better.
Imagine if each Epic HE dropped a special "coin" and with 20 coins you could buy bracers, and 30 could buy weapon. Then you would KNOW you can farm it.
This entire "RNG" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that doesnt even involve DUNGEONS is just SAD!
Bring back dungeons, bring back GOOD loot tables (Players HATE killing a boss and seeing NO GOOD DROPS) introduce a SLOWER method for farming gear that is guaranteed and players will be happy and farm ALL DAY LONG!
Oh and 1 last thing, Artifacts and Artifact gear should be Bound to Account. Period. Nothing kills desire to play more than one character than having to pay millions for artifacts and artifact gear..
This exactly.
What they should have done is have all the BASE blackice gear have the ability to drop from the epic skirmish. As well as purchased - but not for blackice.
Each heroic encounter and epic HE awards "coins" or "currency" upon completion. You use those + blackice to purchase the BASE blackice gear.
So now you have TWO methods. 1) Farm skirmish for RNG chance at the BASE gear - then upgrade it via professions. or 2) Farm HE and Epic HEs for Coins and then BUY the base gear.
This eliminates players from having to be lucky enough to FIND an Epic HE for a decent chance at the drop. It also allows players a true method of getting gear that gives incentive to run the skirmish AND do ALL the HEs - not just the Epic ones.
THEN mindlessly farming the same skrimrish/dungeon 100 times a day for two months until i get what i want.
In terms of Need = BoP/ Greed = BoE, that has been suggested countless times in the past and isn't anything new
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?356661-Best-solution-is-the-need-bop-greed-boe
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?353912-BoP-Update-The-Elephant-in-the-Room
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?357862-Update-to-Proposed-End-Game-Loot-Changes
Seals allowing you to buy anything in the dungeon also isn't new and has been suggested many times previously on the forum.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?571721-2-simple-suggestions&p=6936081&viewfull=1#post6936081
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?536371-T1-2-Gear-vendor-and-endboss-Tokens
Im not too sure about that. Even until very recent even CN weapons used to sell for over 1 mil. For a LONG time those have been BOE and for over a year were almost always selling at high prices.
Especially if they limit the number of time you can run the dungeon to a daily, that removes ALOT of the "Farm" issues. Also, out of 5 people high chance the item that drops will be needed. chances of dropping 2 of the same item in a row is pretty low and would take about 2 weeks on average in order to SELL a piece of gear - unless it was one of the 2 classes not represented.
Then you could imagine guild members would get for a discount for a while.
Let me ask this, is it better that they do 100% drop then having BIS gear players can farm themselves in HEs and buy gear with mindless grinding and NO dungeon runs?
Id rather them introduce a dungeon that is hard, with 100% loot, with the BOP/BOE - NEED/GREED system and start having BIS gear hit the market for a nice price in mod 5 than ANYTHING we have had out thus far....
Just my 2 cents.
How about super long, super hard dungeon. Each boss has different item (so six bosses in all). Or alternatively make shorter dungeons in a pack of six. (might be better idea).
I LOVE garunteed drops. Let's go run ELOL and get 100 rings of pain! thanks for the RAD, i'll refine that in 2015.
The problem is THE CONTENT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE HARD. Not this stuff like CN - throw a million adds at you - we know how to figure that out.
Not like eLOL - make things one shot you. At some point, that actually becomes annoying.
Maybe make the mechanics harder? maybe combine adds and mechanics? I'm not sure.
But not something we can faceroll or two man, please.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Also consider that most other items in CN (rings/amulet/belt) with few exceptions sell at salvage value since mod2.
The prices of them have dropped a lot previously as well, but have always been manipulated back by folks who hold the vast majority of AD in the game, who have an interest in keeping the price high (just as for many other items)
Well You nailed it. Honestly a REALLY simple solution to the concern above AND yours is just this:
- take the existing T1 dungeons and turn them into 10 man versions. GUT the dungeons of mobs - basically just use the layout etc, and then re-fill it with actual challenging encounters.
Trash should drop rank 7 enchants.
Trash should also drop RP stones.
Bosses should be ALOT harder but again - Final boss is 100% drop chance. BOP/BOE - NEED/GREED rules apply.
Dungeon access is granted as a daily quest as a part of the campaign that switches each day.
Now the DAILY is the DUNGEON that takes 10 players to run, has REAL loot and REAL challenges, DONT need new lore or content, so you can put all the work into the encounters in the dungeon!!!!!!
now CN prices are so low and the dungeon seems to get laggier and laggier it's become a what's the point dungeon? If i was going to run it i would 2 or 3 man it. Not worth the aggrivation. 5 of us spend 30-40 minutes in there, go ahead and kill draco, and it's a DC symbol worth 60k? GG.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Oh maybe I mis-wrote but if you BOUGHT the item with currency it would be BOP not BOE....
Also, again, you dont have to make them easy to get. If each boss dropped 1 and it took 25 or 30 to get an item. It just limits the max number needed to get a certain item that isnt dropping.
My only problem with 10 man raids is the amount of lag it causes. It can get really bad in IWD.
I would love to see legendary versions of T1s tho. I love the design and layouts of them, but there's no point in running them. Imagine if they were actually hard! that would be awesome.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Assault on the Cult Fortress:
A big map, say the size of Dwarven Valley. A huge fortress of the Dragon Cult.
When the party enters the fortress they get primary goal and one or more lesser goals. Say: stop the Dracolich evocation as primary, kill the Cult Overlord before he escapes and collect the Dracolich Bones around the map as secondaries. The Cult Overlord changes everytime and there is no way to pre-determine what he'll be.
Final loot table determined by overall performance on all objectives and the objectives themselves. Drops determined by the objectives. Dracolich Bones could be a crating material for some recipes, the Dragon Cult leader could drop something related to what he his, stopping the evocation may give campaign points.
Make a mini-campaign for each dungeon so that people can buy boons with Dungeon currency and make the boons related to the Dungeon theme.
This way it will be more interesting to play the dungeon many times, we'll stop seeing requests for the same party composition in LFG because the boss is changing everytime and evreybody will get rewards of different kind.
This would be far more interesting than what we have.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Yeah you definitely can notice some frame-rate issues. However thats with any game. IWD is a large zone and alot of times people exceed the population cap by inviting friends which causes massive strain on the servers. So there IS a difference there.
I think 10 man groups could work fine! I dont even think it would require too much "rework" on the Que system. All they really need to do is add a # to the Que POP. So you MAKE two teams of 5 players, both Que for the 10 man, and when the Que POPs it would say specifically what Instance # your going into. Then accept it as both groups or try again and re-Q. Its not ideal, but WOULD work - much like premades in PVP do it today, or much like we Que for GG as a guild.
Having access be a "daily" thing - once per day, helps alleviate not only farming but the grouping issues. Because casual players can fairly easily find groups for these dungeons. The only issue I see is some sort of "D/C" or "kick" where a player looses access to the dungeon somehow.
But I do like limiting it to once per day as the new daily and NOT having more boons!!!
Too bad, so sad. Better luck next time.
No really. Good loot should be won by defeating some hard boss in a dungeon. Not for sale from a vendor.
Your idea is literally turning dungeons into the equivalent of a daily. Like the ToD ones that everyone here complains about. Something that you just have to slog through 100+ times to obtain the currency, whether it be Cult Secrets or Loot Crystals, to get the item that you want. You're trivializing and cheapening the meaning of dungeons more than the existence of easy faceroll mobs would.
OMG you had to run MC *twenty-nine times*? Would you like a tissue?
Well if Cryptic ever did implement this idea, you know darn well it wouldn't be only 20 or 30 coins. It would be more like 500 coins. (Just look at the very large number of secrets/sigils needed for the ToD final boons.) PLUS, they would then nerf the boss loot drop rate, because - well, why should it be as high as it is now because you can instead just get the gear you want with the Loot Crystals? You are complaining about running MC *twenty-nine times* before you got your offhand. Well, try making that 500 times. Still want to do it?
I like the idea, but I would only like to see it happen if the dungeons became x10 harder, with deadly traps, stronger bosses, unavoidable damage, red spots that are very hard to avoid.
I that won't happen, then your idea is = World of Babycraft.....everything drops, you gear up in 3 days....and you're bored in 1 week.
10 man dosent have to be hardcore.. This game is so far from hardcore, 10 man raids would just make it seem ****ing human. Everything in this game can be bough, from potions to gear with real life money. Making a 10 man raid with actually BoP loot would give the people a sense of accomplishment.
While I get your exaggerating, if you read any subsequent posts, the 10 man idea or this idea in general would be a "daily" so in 3 days the most that would happen is likely 3 people would have one piece of their gear.
technically it would take a minimum of 4 days and alot of luck to get 4/4. Since each day would be a revolving dungeon and a "daily" so you can only do it once per day.
Whats different than a 10 man versus a 5 man raid besides the number of players? They would be the same dungeons and most likely take the same time as the 5 man, but require 10 people. I bet some "PRO" players could even do 7/8 players with skill......
Stuff like in NWN Classic that would read:
// Turn pushing off
void main()
{
object oPC = GetPCSpeaker();
effect eGhost = EffectCutsceneGhost();
eGhost = SupernaturalEffect(eGhost);
ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_PERMANENT, eGhost, oPC);
}
Some such like that anyhow.
I see (and admittedly) make sugestions on things for in game, but not the coding. If I knew the coding system used here then I would certainly include it myself to make the suggestion better AND save time in implementing/ fixing things.
Makes this dragoness a bit twitchy to NOT be able to post coding fixes. I do understand Cryptic's need for keeping coding to themselves though so nobody can steal stuff for no work, or start to go messing about worse than a gold spammager.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
What's different? Well, the dungeon would have to be much harder and much longer in difficulty. Once again I don't want dungeons in this game to turn into 6-hour commitments. I am quite glad that the dungeons here last no more than 1 hour for most runs. That is a reasonable amount of time to allocate per day for acquiring gear. But if you want to expect 10 people to spend 6+ hours in a dungeon in order to get gear.... well then go play another game.
Oh no! Please cryptic no challenging PVE content! Help us!
How about this, you can worry about doing heroic encounters and dailies since you love doing that so much.
We on the other hand, will continue to suggest 10-man instanced raids so that we could do something in PVE.
Well i know exactly why that is.
They are making new gear undesirable because they want to make Rank 10 and Artifacts more desirable, stuff that costs real life money. If they made gear with better stats and made it more desirable, they would have to follow that path with every module and eventually gear would make a bigger difference then enchants (OH NO ISENT THAT NORMAL???). That is actually they way it should be.
But unfortunately their idea of running a business is that they'd rather have a smaller playerbase that spends a lot of individual money then have a huge playerbase (which this game has the potential to get) that spends a normal amount of money. Its clear to see what model they went for, but it is wrong and as you can see, this game dosent have a lot of old players left, there are plenty of new ones who will soon realize the same. But as long as they spend money who the **** cares right?
Well why do those people have to do hardcore stuff? I mean the fact that i have probably the same gear as one who spends 90% of his time in foundrys is just wrong. I think they should have some options for both types of players. Not just the ones who like solo playing. This is after all a MMOrpg, which means Massively multiplayer online role-playing game, which means there should be stuff in the game that requires 5-10 or even 20 people to work together to accomplish.
If person A does not want to do a 6 hour dungeon, why does he have to do it? Even you are saying that its the players fault they are overgearing, so something like this would be really simple for you to avoid. Most current dungeons are clearable with 15k gs and by the looks of you posts, you are satisfied with that and happy with the current gear as well. But why are you against adding something for the people who want something more difficult they need to work together on? I really dont understand why you are against it, are you a little boy who wants to do everything everyone else does, but dont want people to have more opportunities then you so you spam this forum with posts that its the players own fault they overgear and want more challenges?
This game has catered well to both casual players and you can even say in early beta it catered pretty well to some hardcore players because it had CN that was pretty hard with 10k gs. But im not going to strip down naked to do a CN run just for the challenge of it, and i certainly dont think cryptic want us to stop focusing on spending that dime on enchants and refining artifacts. So the playerbase is simply asking them for some actual content, that YOU dont have to worry about since you are a casual player.
And what would your problem be with that paradigm? That someone has four friends they run with? Or that are in a guild? Or that loot drops actually make sense to the class you're in?
Let's face it, loot drops in almost any MMO anyone can mention follow almost no rhyme or reason. You kill a guy using a bow and he drops a wizard staff. You kill a tank and he drops a bow. You kill a rat and it drops a kite shield...or my personal favorite; you kill 20 skeletons and you don't find any bones.
One SOLUTION to creating a true "RAID" experience could be this.
RAID DETAILS:
- 10 man dungeon
- TWICE the length of CN (5 bosses Total)
- Weekly Reset on boss loot potential.
The idea behind 5 bosses is 1 boss for each armor TYPE:
Boss 1) Boots - its a 100% guarantee drop that SOMEONES boots will drop.
Boss 2) Gloves - ETC
Boss 5) MH/OH - ETC.
ATLEAST 1 persons gear is GUARANTEED to drop, with a second "loot slot" open with a POTENTIAL second loot drop. So it would not be uncommon to get TWO items off a boss (two different Pairs of gloves for instance)
KEY TO NEVERWINTER RAIDING:
When a person kills a certain boss, say Boss #1, His loot potential from THAT BOSS becomes "locked" for the week. What this means is if he gets a group to do Boss #1 and #2, if the next day he runs Boss #1 again, he will NOT be eligible to roll for that loot - he wont even see it. He already had his loot drop for the week.
he could STILL run boss #3 and get loot - because he has not received loot that week.
Why this works:
Because now Cryptic doesnt have to keep track of specific INSTANCES but can track this on a character basis. Its much easier to track that way.
Also, You would need to create some type of "campfire" system for these raids, where players could re-zone into their version at a specific campfire (where they left off) or join someone elses instance and start wherever THAT players last save was.
This way you COULD get a player who hasnt done Boss 1,2,3 but gets invited to finish bosses 4/5 for the week - maybe he already has the first three pieces of loot and doesnt want anymore....
So at the end of the day, it really promotes PVE!!!