zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited September 2014
Currencies in Neverwinter need to be transitioned just like they did with Assets (STO's equivalent of NW's currencies) in Star Trek Online: As a list of all game currencies with a number next to them displaying how many you have. This would solve all these issues in Neverwinter, just like it did there.
Currencies in Neverwinter need to be transitioned just like they did in Star Trek Online: As a list of all game currencies with a number next to them displaying how many you have. This would solve all these issues in Neverwinter, just like it did there.
I totally concur with this.
Rhyon Cawdorian GWF | Opa Loka TR | Cormac Argentus III DC | Annika Thornblade GF | Aerys Skydark HR | Bartin Findlor TR | Aellia Baalthrall CW | Lucan Hawkmoon CW | Opa Brahk GWF | Korzbyrk DC | Den Kruk GWF | Jherek Skarsin CW |
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited September 2014
That is a perfect solution as well but more time consuming than I think the devs are willing to spend ATM.
My only stance is the solution is not discarding. That's an effect of not having enough currency space or having nothing to use said currency on.
They can keep the current system and add more space (either slots or increasing max stacks) and add reasons to spend currency...
Or they can revamp the system to be variable rather than item bound such as STO (which will still require increasing maximum quantities and adding reasons to spend currencies)
But pointing the finger at wanting to discard them is wrong.
But pointing the finger at wanting to discard them is wrong.
First, why? If I want to get rid of junk I do not need, I should be able to. Second, having something to spend currencies on would be better ofc (unless they'll introduce another "spend 10k ad to get junk you can only salvage for 5k ad" idiocy) but we need SOME way to get rid ot it. Bigger stacks are welcome, but would be only a temporary solution.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited September 2014
"I want to do what I want" isn't a reason to do something.
Would you take money out of your pocket and just throw it on the ground? Not likely.
Think..seriously...
There's no reason you should want to discard currency. The problem is NOT that you want to discard it and can't. The problem is that you shouldn't want to discard it to begin with. That's why.
There's no good reason you should want to discard it. If you do that is a problem. Excuse me right now as I beat my head into my desk for being a broken record.
At this point I want to start removing all these redundant and shortsighted "I don't like being told I can't throw away money by the devs" comments but I can not do that. You can't always do what you want to do. Sometimes it's to protect you and sometimes it's to protect others but you can't walways do what you want.
The thing is you all need to think passed the "I want to discard something" desire and consider why you want to discard it. This is rule number one when solving a problem; fix the cause and not the effect.
Problem: We have nothing we want to spend the currency on.
Effect: Some people want to discard the currency.
Problem: Ambi is hitting his head into his desk
Effect: Ambi has a headache.
Taking tylonol won't solve the problem. Sure my headache might diminish but as long as I am bashing my head into my desk the headache will continue. Fix the problem. Period.
Why can't you discard currency? Ideally it is a currency and you should not want to discard it. While you may want to discard certain currencies I am sure there are plenty of others ones in there that you would scream bloody murder about if you discarded.
Currencies should have not had limited slots in the first place, they should use counters and not slots (they should be all like some currencies, black ice, AD, companion tokens... they don't use any "physical" space and there's no reason they should be "tangible" at all, since you can't really trade them, mail them, discard them, or do anything at all that requires dragging them around)
OK, I do agree with more slots or up the stack to 1000. This should be OK until the devs find a solution to we spend all those overflow itens.
But I still think the discard should be an option. Because for example; I have 3 petals and 2 favor tokens from that summer festival event in my inventory, and I didn't like that event, so I should be able to discard those 4 useless itens from my inventory, do you agree with that? I'm not talking about herd dragons untill be full of coins and flush them away. Maybe a daily limit to discard, as the daily AD refinement. Could be someone in town, or a chest of destruction where you can discard 10 "other currencies" each 24 hours.
As some GM suggest increasing the format of some ítems to 999 should solve the problem for the time until they decide to do something but as its now i cant do anything. i reach a point in whitch i cant store more things neither discharge and there are some ítems i dont want to spent right now. In my opinión its not very difficult to change the store format. they did before with other elements so why dont they do right now? I really cant understand.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
That is a perfect solution as well but more time consuming than I think the devs are willing to spend ATM.
That is beside the point in my opinion and irrelevant, as this was coded in the Cryptic Engine prior to Neverwinter and can be seen to exist in Neverwinter right now. Any other change or fix would actually be more time consuming in the long run, as we'd just eventually get to this issue again and again. The best and most reasonable solution is to do as the Cryptic engine is already coded to do, stack them as a list and not graphic items.
We can already see the code exists and is in use right now as we speak in Neverwinter for this just by browsing the Campaigns, Seal Vendors, Professiom Vendor (Alchemical Extravaganza) and so on - where it shows currencies as a list/number format. All that would need to be done is transition these displays to the Currency tab, remove the Currency Bag as a Graphic "Item" display, and remove the item cap limit for currencies.
Currencies in Neverwinter need to be transitioned just like they did with Assets (STO's equivalent of NW's currencies) in Star Trek Online: As a list of all game currencies with a number next to them displaying how many you have. This would solve all these issues in Neverwinter, just like it did there.
Something needs to be done about the dragon hoard coins, that's for sure, but the STO method certainly won't work for Neverwinter. We have too many currencies. You have all the bounty items in every single zone, you have all the various currencies that apply to each of the special event zones, then you have the tokens for gaining high quality items, etc etc etc. The currency tab would be over bloated or you would end up filling up the precious space in our normal bags even more with the random junk items that we hardly use, such as the bounty tokens.
The currency tab would be over bloated or you would end up filling up the precious space in our normal bags even more with the random junk items that we hardly use, such as the bounty tokens.
If you're picturing just a static, linear list... perhaps. However, if one thinks more along the lines of intuitive interfacing; it could be done in a way that minimizes and organizes their display, such as collapsible sections, columns, and such. The currency tab could even further be sorted by having its own tabs. Such as a "Campaign" tab, a "Seal Tab" and so forth and so on. Just going through STO's interfaces shows how compact and still aesthetically pleasing Cryptic can make things.
If you're picturing just a static, linear list... perhaps. However, if one thinks more along the lines of intuitive interfacing; it could be done in a way that minimizes and organizes their display, such as collapsible sections, columns, and such. The currency tab could even further be sorted by having its own tabs. Such as a "Campaign" tab, a "Seal Tab" and so forth and so on. Just going through STO's interfaces shows how compact and still aesthetically pleasing Cryptic can make things.
The word "intuitive" and "list" never go together. From each campaign you have 3 to 5 different tokens alone, not including the base tokens you get from leveling up, and that isn't even including the dungeon tokens the bounties and any other future additions to said list that will come along with each new campaign.
If the idea of intuitive is collapsible, that isn't intuitive that just adds more needless clicking then. A better solution is needed. For starters making those dragon hoard coins usable to be spent on something would have been a good start or even just let me toss them. After all why did we need to be gifted so many with no reason to spend them but maybe once or twice in the entire campaign?
Oh and if they really want to fix the coins let them stack past 100 say up to 10,000.
Why not a fast and temporary solution: Double the space of the currency bag.
What i don't understand: Why does this take so much time to change it? I mean, it's not like you(PWE) lose money because we wouldn't buy bags, because it's a whole different storage. But you will lose money if player stops playing because their currency bags are overflowing...
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Something needs to be done about the dragon hoard coins, that's for sure, but the STO method certainly won't work for Neverwinter. We have too many currencies. You have all the bounty items in every single zone, you have all the various currencies that apply to each of the special event zones, then you have the tokens for gaining high quality items, etc etc etc. The currency tab would be over bloated or you would end up filling up the precious space in our normal bags even more with the random junk items that we hardly use, such as the bounty tokens.
There are way too many currencies for a simple static list, true, and it needs a few tweaks to be usable, but it's not that pretty even now, actually it's terrible and totally mixed up with no practical sense. If you consider many currencies have very similar icons (some have the same icon with a slightly different color), you can see how bad it is if you need to check anything at a glance.
If you're picturing just a static, linear list... perhaps. However, if one thinks more along the lines of intuitive interfacing; it could be done in a way that minimizes and organizes their display, such as collapsible sections, columns, and such. The currency tab could even further be sorted by having its own tabs. Such as a "Campaign" tab, a "Seal Tab" and so forth and so on. Just going through STO's interfaces shows how compact and still aesthetically pleasing Cryptic can make things.
If you're picturing just a static, linear list... perhaps. However, if one thinks more along the lines of intuitive interfacing; it could be done in a way that minimizes and organizes their display, such as collapsible sections, columns, and such. The currency tab could even further be sorted by having its own tabs. Such as a "Campaign" tab, a "Seal Tab" and so forth and so on. Just going through STO's interfaces shows how compact and still aesthetically pleasing Cryptic can make things.
I can't remember how STO works since I only played it briefly but the collapsable list style is what I recall from LotRO.
Is it as user friendly as it could be, probably not but I'd argue the root problem is the sheer number of currencies in the first place and also their value to the player.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited September 2014
If you've got all the Dragon coins, spend them on Artifacts (at 25,920 RP each [and they only take 8 hrs time to collect]).
I actualy got riches tab full with items that cant be sold nor discarded (dragon coins mostly).
Now I can't loot any chests not campain stuff that goes into riches tab, says "inventory full".
With enormous dragon coins farming I guess soon all will have that problem and this is not minor bug, this is really the game breaker one.
Don't even want to start asking how that one slipped and why there is non-discardable stuff in there.
Wanting to discard is a problem, not a solution. Sorry but that is not debatable no matter how much you want to say "I want to do whatever I want." Saying discarding is the solution is ignoring the cause: nothing to buy.
currencies were never made to be actual currencies. they were made to time-gate content. nobody really cares for any currency because that's simply all it is.
only the seals for killing epic bosses have value since it's the only currency that can be traded for purples without a gold/ad price-tag overlapping it. easy salvaging option if you don't feel like dungeoning on that character everyday. black ice is somewhat valuable if the sets mean anything to you, but the luck-shot on dropping the weapon/gloves can be depressing (hence y i don't farm).
i actually feel bad for the people who buy those overpriced ad purples which is shocking because i didn't even think someone was willing to do so.
the saddest part is the discard option being suspiciously close to the refine option for artifacts that you have EQUIPPED! if there was ever a real rogueish trap, it's definitely that.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
If you've got all the Dragon coins, spend them on Artifacts (at 25,920 RP each [and they only take 8 hrs time to collect]).
That's not good advice - you need a dragon gem/bone/steel too, and it is much more profitable just to sell that on the AH and buy peridots or resonance stones instead.
Anyhow....by the time you can make dragon hoard enchants, that will eat up 75 per day.
We are a full of sugestions and solutions here but by any way they are passed to the developement team? How is it done? I know that in game we must send a ticket, wich we always get an automatic reply. But how it works from here? How do we get the info about if the development team is aware of the situation and what they are (if they are) doing to solve it?
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
We are a full of suggestions and solutions here but by any way they are passed to the developement team?
The devs have basically said there is too much feedback for them to sift through, which is why they came up with the "advocacy" position (although strictly speaking it is more like a "class-specific feedback collector" position). That does not solve the issue of feedback that is not specific to particular classes.
They do, however, pay attention to bug feedback on the preview thread, related to changes currently being tested - and sometimes they act on that feedback (example DC Draconian armor stats), and sometimes they ignore the feedback completely (random artifact weapons).
Older issues seem to be more consistently ignored, however.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I totally concur with this.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
My only stance is the solution is not discarding. That's an effect of not having enough currency space or having nothing to use said currency on.
They can keep the current system and add more space (either slots or increasing max stacks) and add reasons to spend currency...
Or they can revamp the system to be variable rather than item bound such as STO (which will still require increasing maximum quantities and adding reasons to spend currencies)
But pointing the finger at wanting to discard them is wrong.
First, why? If I want to get rid of junk I do not need, I should be able to. Second, having something to spend currencies on would be better ofc (unless they'll introduce another "spend 10k ad to get junk you can only salvage for 5k ad" idiocy) but we need SOME way to get rid ot it. Bigger stacks are welcome, but would be only a temporary solution.
Would you take money out of your pocket and just throw it on the ground? Not likely.
Think..seriously...
There's no reason you should want to discard currency. The problem is NOT that you want to discard it and can't. The problem is that you shouldn't want to discard it to begin with. That's why.
There's no good reason you should want to discard it. If you do that is a problem. Excuse me right now as I beat my head into my desk for being a broken record.
At this point I want to start removing all these redundant and shortsighted "I don't like being told I can't throw away money by the devs" comments but I can not do that. You can't always do what you want to do. Sometimes it's to protect you and sometimes it's to protect others but you can't walways do what you want.
The thing is you all need to think passed the "I want to discard something" desire and consider why you want to discard it. This is rule number one when solving a problem; fix the cause and not the effect.
Problem: We have nothing we want to spend the currency on.
Effect: Some people want to discard the currency.
Problem: Ambi is hitting his head into his desk
Effect: Ambi has a headache.
Taking tylonol won't solve the problem. Sure my headache might diminish but as long as I am bashing my head into my desk the headache will continue. Fix the problem. Period.
Currencies should have not had limited slots in the first place, they should use counters and not slots (they should be all like some currencies, black ice, AD, companion tokens... they don't use any "physical" space and there's no reason they should be "tangible" at all, since you can't really trade them, mail them, discard them, or do anything at all that requires dragging them around)
I understand you better now.
OK, I do agree with more slots or up the stack to 1000. This should be OK until the devs find a solution to we spend all those overflow itens.
But I still think the discard should be an option. Because for example; I have 3 petals and 2 favor tokens from that summer festival event in my inventory, and I didn't like that event, so I should be able to discard those 4 useless itens from my inventory, do you agree with that? I'm not talking about herd dragons untill be full of coins and flush them away. Maybe a daily limit to discard, as the daily AD refinement. Could be someone in town, or a chest of destruction where you can discard 10 "other currencies" each 24 hours.
We can already see the code exists and is in use right now as we speak in Neverwinter for this just by browsing the Campaigns, Seal Vendors, Professiom Vendor (Alchemical Extravaganza) and so on - where it shows currencies as a list/number format. All that would need to be done is transition these displays to the Currency tab, remove the Currency Bag as a Graphic "Item" display, and remove the item cap limit for currencies.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Something needs to be done about the dragon hoard coins, that's for sure, but the STO method certainly won't work for Neverwinter. We have too many currencies. You have all the bounty items in every single zone, you have all the various currencies that apply to each of the special event zones, then you have the tokens for gaining high quality items, etc etc etc. The currency tab would be over bloated or you would end up filling up the precious space in our normal bags even more with the random junk items that we hardly use, such as the bounty tokens.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
1. to make the currencies a list
2. to give us something viable to spend them on
3. to make the currencies discard-able
Maybe is time for us to find what is a coder / developer point of view about it. Which will be the best solution ?
Maybe they don't consider it an issue and then we should forget our little party here
The word "intuitive" and "list" never go together. From each campaign you have 3 to 5 different tokens alone, not including the base tokens you get from leveling up, and that isn't even including the dungeon tokens the bounties and any other future additions to said list that will come along with each new campaign.
If the idea of intuitive is collapsible, that isn't intuitive that just adds more needless clicking then. A better solution is needed. For starters making those dragon hoard coins usable to be spent on something would have been a good start or even just let me toss them. After all why did we need to be gifted so many with no reason to spend them but maybe once or twice in the entire campaign?
Oh and if they really want to fix the coins let them stack past 100 say up to 10,000.
What i don't understand: Why does this take so much time to change it? I mean, it's not like you(PWE) lose money because we wouldn't buy bags, because it's a whole different storage. But you will lose money if player stops playing because their currency bags are overflowing...
There are way too many currencies for a simple static list, true, and it needs a few tweaks to be usable, but it's not that pretty even now, actually it's terrible and totally mixed up with no practical sense. If you consider many currencies have very similar icons (some have the same icon with a slightly different color), you can see how bad it is if you need to check anything at a glance.
I've suggested something like that in another thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?738871-Currencies-bag-urgent-attention-needed-please&p=8795271&viewfull=1#post8795271
I can't remember how STO works since I only played it briefly but the collapsable list style is what I recall from LotRO.
Is it as user friendly as it could be, probably not but I'd argue the root problem is the sheer number of currencies in the first place and also their value to the player.
currencies were never made to be actual currencies. they were made to time-gate content. nobody really cares for any currency because that's simply all it is.
only the seals for killing epic bosses have value since it's the only currency that can be traded for purples without a gold/ad price-tag overlapping it. easy salvaging option if you don't feel like dungeoning on that character everyday. black ice is somewhat valuable if the sets mean anything to you, but the luck-shot on dropping the weapon/gloves can be depressing (hence y i don't farm).
i actually feel bad for the people who buy those overpriced ad purples which is shocking because i didn't even think someone was willing to do so.
the saddest part is the discard option being suspiciously close to the refine option for artifacts that you have EQUIPPED! if there was ever a real rogueish trap, it's definitely that.
That's not good advice - you need a dragon gem/bone/steel too, and it is much more profitable just to sell that on the AH and buy peridots or resonance stones instead.
Anyhow....by the time you can make dragon hoard enchants, that will eat up 75 per day.
We are a full of sugestions and solutions here but by any way they are passed to the developement team? How is it done? I know that in game we must send a ticket, wich we always get an automatic reply. But how it works from here? How do we get the info about if the development team is aware of the situation and what they are (if they are) doing to solve it?
The devs have basically said there is too much feedback for them to sift through, which is why they came up with the "advocacy" position (although strictly speaking it is more like a "class-specific feedback collector" position). That does not solve the issue of feedback that is not specific to particular classes.
They do, however, pay attention to bug feedback on the preview thread, related to changes currently being tested - and sometimes they act on that feedback (example DC Draconian armor stats), and sometimes they ignore the feedback completely (random artifact weapons).
Older issues seem to be more consistently ignored, however.
But this is not a minor issue, I guess they will need to pay atention on it soon.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?742751-Tyranny-of-Dragons-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-25-20140820a-4&p=8827551&viewfull=1#post8827551
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Yup. Again, you must PAY 5k AD to remove 50 of the coins you farmed off of around 10-17 dragons.
They better fix this within the week, else even more people are going to fill up on all of their currencies.