Now a days though there is less of a "trade off" and more of "have everything" so the builds become MUCH less about stats/gear and more about powers/skills/feats
The issue with THAT is that alot of the builds (like CW) have had their hand FORCED because of all the nerfs/changes and ontop of that, turned the class into a MUCH less "skill required" thing.
Builds aren't always supposed to be about stats and gear, but that's just me. I see it more as an interplay of all the available tools we have to personalize our play style. Most builds tend to have "stats" as their prominent feature, which are easy to stack in most games, specially Neverwinter. But it is preferable to go beyond just stats.
Some players may feel "forced" to play a certain build, but this is an experience that happens to players who like to play in the most optimal manner possible. Theorycrafting in my opinion, however, isn't always about what's optimal and what's not.
We seem to be seeing two very different things right now. I just see build creation and theorycrafting as a challenge in innovation and creating new play styles, rather than a challenge in "skill" or creating elaborate methods of executing something which one could have done easier in another manner. But that's just me.
...If you want people to excel at theory craft, there had to be a REASON and AVENUES to express that theory craft. Once you theory a cool new build then what? Run around in PE?
IDK, man. Share it, let the others enjoy it and possibly improve it, then jump to the next build, I guess. The act of exploring our capabilities has been pretty much my main reason in playing MMOs. Some people play MMOs for the adventure, or to clash blades with other players. But in my opinion, the content can wait and shouldn't be rushed. But of course, this is coming from a non-hardcore gamer who merely like to build things and theorycraft.
Tyranny of Dragons is a different story, though. The thing is just too d*mn long.
We've got a lot of those coming so I'm not too worried about it. It's slow, but it will come. People will always be hungry for new content.
I for one believe that the Foundry should be significantly improved. We have a whole dang salvo of creative Foundry Artists, and it's so wrong not to give them the means to provide their fellow players with a challenging and rewarding experience using the Foundry.
Cryptic can release some sort of Creators Pack for the Foundry Artists. Creators Pack can contain additional Foundry Functions and Content such as Boss Fights, better end-chest loot, additional creatures one can only encounter in the Foundry, additional textures such as Desert Terrain, additional animations and environmental effects, the ability to create PVP maps; sky's the limit!
From my knowledge, hardcore RP-ers (and there are a lot of them too) would be more than willing to pay for the abilities to create such content.
I for one, however, would settle for a REAL SOLO challenge. Playing in groups is nice, but I'd prefer to tackle an entire dungeon by myself if it's possible. It'd be a challenge for end-game players too.
1) Boons - reduce boons to +100 of each stat and cut in HALF the things LIKE 10% stamina regen (sharandar capstone). This brings back limitations for builds because stats become more scarce - less of a chance to softcap everything.
2) Class Overhaul - Again, ALOT can be said about this. So I wont get into it.
3) New PVE dungeons and Tier gear - instead of NEW BAD dungeons, just redo the old ones, make them 10 man raids with magic immune monsters, physical immune monsters, un-controllable monsters, Monsters that HIT for 40-50k+ Making them truly require tanks/healers/skill to play against. ETC. With this, T3 gear with overload slots, brings back the old T1/T2 armor we loved. An additional idea here could be to create tenacity "re-inforcement kits" to allow players to put tenacity on PVE gear if they chose.
4) Re-fining - is a joke.
5) PVP needs new maps and gamtypes. Seriously, its getting old. Matchmaking is a joke. Its not ELO thats broken its the way they use ELO. SAME two maps are stale, same domination play is stale.
Decided to post my replies on your suggestions on a different post, so things would be clear.
1. Good idea. Or, if possible, just change all the stats that Boons provide to the exotic ones we do not have access to from gear alone such as Action Point Gain, Control Resist/Penetration, Incoming Healing etc. Those stats are highly situational and is hard to stack to kingdom high unlike the ones we usually see in our gear.
3. Yep, redesigning the current content to be more challenging would be nice. PVPVE dungeons, anyone? Adding a whole new element of danger in dungeons would introduce a new dimension to both PVP and PVE.
4. Yes. Overly tedious and uncreative.
5. Not much to say here. I just want new maps myself, preferably maps with creative layouts that would inspire different strategies and team plays.
Decided to post my replies on your suggestions on a different post, so things would be clear.
1. Good idea. Or, if possible, just change all the stats that Boons provide to the exotic ones we do not have access to from gear alone such as Action Point Gain, Control Resist/Penetration, Incoming Healing etc. Those stats are highly situational and is hard to stack to kingdom high unlike the ones we usually see in our gear.
3. Yep, redesigning the current content to be more challenging would be nice. PVPVE dungeons, anyone? Adding a whole new element of danger in dungeons would introduce a new dimension to both PVP and PVE.
4. Yes. Overly tedious and uncreative.
5. Not much to say here. I just want new maps myself, preferably maps with creative layouts that would inspire different strategies and team plays.
Why are you only "former"-community moderator. you seem like an awesome guy and should have continued. Anyway, im not an RP fan and i like playing with other people and doing parties.
This game fooled me a little because its an "MMOrpg". but really it caters mostly to solo players like you. Usually i would tell you to l2p and go play another game, but it looks like most of the NW players are solo players and im worried they will never offer anything to end game players (mix/maxers).
PvP is kinda lost and forgotten and the PvE dungeons are so easy now since our stats is 10x times higher then what it was when the dungeons were made. I will just call them Addgeons from now on, because of the adds.
If the addgeons get adjusted in difficulty, it would be great to scale the gear up for the next module so enchants/artifact/boons dosent mean 90% of your stats. I've made an easy suggestion in this thread which would IMO close the gap a bit from old players and new players and we would get some competitive PvP again. And if the addgeons got adjusted abit(alot) in difficulty it wouldent matter much with greater stats on gear because everything would be easily balanced out.
Dailies are not endgame content. Dailies are work to get to the endgame content.
So where is the endgame content?
Dungeons don't give good loot and depend on RNG of the artifact weapon chest.
Open world pvp is dead.
Heroic encounters give you the same reward for AFKing and participating.
We still have 2 maps and no new pvp modes
Does cryptic really want to wait 2 more modules before introducing new endgame content?
Why are you only "former"-community moderator. you seem like an awesome guy and should have continued. Anyway, im not an RP fan and i like playing with other people and doing parties.
This game fooled me a little because its an "MMOrpg". but really it caters mostly to solo players like you. Usually i would tell you to l2p and go play another game, but it looks like most of the NW players are solo players and im worried they will never offer anything to end game players (mix/maxers).
PvP is kinda lost and forgotten and the PvE dungeons are so easy now since our stats is 10x times higher then what it was when the dungeons were made. I will just call them Addgeons from now on, because of the adds.
If the addgeons get adjusted in difficulty, it would be great to scale the gear up for the next module so enchants/artifact/boons dosent mean 90% of your stats. I've made an easy suggestion in this thread which would IMO close the gap a bit from old players and new players and we would get some competitive PvP again. And if the addgeons got adjusted abit(alot) in difficulty it wouldent matter much with greater stats on gear because everything would be easily balanced out.
Thank you very much, Abecassis! The game isn't actually too friendly for us solo players as well. We have very limited means to truly tackle anything solo, and it takes a lot of effort to experience the challenge of soloing an epic dungeon nowadays, as compared to before. I'd love to be able to challenge myself with soloing dungeons again, but it's just not possible right now.
Sometimes I think of how dungeons would be if we aren't able to see the red splats on the ground whenever our enemies are about to use powerful skills. Part of me is wishing to see this luxury removed from the game. It's what making dungeons so easy, and removes the need to have any semblance of defense because the red splats allows us to "see the future," giving us all the time we need to act accordingly and move out of range.
By having the telegraphs removed, PVE players would need to be more attentive about details, enemy movements and their behaviors rather than relying on the red splats to tell them what to do next. It's a simple idea but could breath new life unto PVE.
I do think that there are some people around here who have a rather narrow view of what "endgame content" ought to be.
I have not played other MMOs, but from reading their descriptions here, it seems as if other MMOs have endgame that consist of:
fight a dungeon --> get good gear --> fight hard dungeon --> get better gear --> fight harder dungeon --> get even better gear --> fight even harder dungeon --> etc.
So it's a very linear progression path.
This game, it seems, takes more of a buffet approach. Do the endgame content that you wish; you don't need to have the tippy-top best gear to do it all, you just need reasonable gear, in order to explore a variety of content. Foundries, PVP, kill dragons, do HE's in IWD, etc.
Also, Cryptic appears to have made the conscious decision that most of the endgame content ought to be accessible to most of the playerbase, even the casuals, even those who aren't hardcore min/maxers. Apparently this is different than other MMOs, where only the top elite got to experience the true endgame. I rather like the more egalitarian approach in this game actually, but I can understand how others would not.
I do think that there are some people around here who have a rather narrow view of what "endgame content" ought to be.
I have not played other MMOs, but from reading their descriptions here, it seems as if other MMOs have endgame that consist of:
fight a dungeon --> get good gear --> fight hard dungeon --> get better gear --> fight harder dungeon --> get even better gear --> fight even harder dungeon --> etc.
So it's a very linear progression path.
This game, it seems, takes more of a buffet approach. Do the endgame content that you wish; you don't need to have the tippy-top best gear to do it all, you just need reasonable gear, in order to explore a variety of content. Foundries, PVP, kill dragons, do HE's in IWD, etc.
Also, Cryptic appears to have made the conscious decision that most of the endgame content ought to be accessible to most of the playerbase, even the casuals, even those who aren't hardcore min/maxers. Apparently this is different than other MMOs, where only the top elite got to experience the true endgame. I rather like the more egalitarian approach in this game actually, but I can understand how others would not.
Dead open world PVP could've been an endgame
More PVP maps and modes could've been an endgame
Gauntylgrym being for more than 1 hour could've been an endgame
This new dungeon not being dependent on being crazy enough to do dailies over and over again as well as the RNG could've been an endgame.
Decided to post my replies on your suggestions on a different post, so things would be clear.
1. Good idea. Or, if possible, just change all the stats that Boons provide to the exotic ones we do not have access to from gear alone such as Action Point Gain, Control Resist/Penetration, Incoming Healing etc. Those stats are highly situational and is hard to stack to kingdom high unlike the ones we usually see in our gear.
3. Yep, redesigning the current content to be more challenging would be nice. PVPVE dungeons, anyone? Adding a whole new element of danger in dungeons would introduce a new dimension to both PVP and PVE.
4. Yes. Overly tedious and uncreative.
5. Not much to say here. I just want new maps myself, preferably maps with creative layouts that would inspire different strategies and team plays.
I still think they should revisit the soft cap and scaling of stats. I also think that they should factor DOWN (scale back) all stat gains and give it a much less harsh curve. Right now once you hti the soft cap, it hurts HARD. If they diminished the amount each stat gave and then straightened out the curve more that could work really well.
Let's talk about this one. What exactly do you want with regards to Open World PVP as viable end game content? I mean, it's there. You can do whatever you wish with it. What would make it more appealing?
I recall, before mod3, lots of PVPers on the forums wanting something like Open World PVP. Well, here it is. Why aren't more PVPers using it? Sure the restriction on instance switching can be annoying. But it's there for a good reason, otherwise you will have 200 AB's ganking every single TT that happens along. I can understand Cryptic not wanting this result. But is that something you would want?
Having better rewards? (nobody needs black ice anymore now that they introduced overpowered glyphs)
Being able to switch instances at will?
Not having too many instances?
Having a mode that isn't an exact duplicate of the PVP domination we have now?
You know why players get ganked easily? Because the instances are always dead so a party of 3-4players easily translates to a huge force and imbalanced ganking
Let's talk about this one. What exactly do you want with regards to Open World PVP as viable end game content? I mean, it's there. You can do whatever you wish with it. What would make it more appealing?
I recall, before mod3, lots of PVPers on the forums wanting something like Open World PVP. Well, here it is. Why aren't more PVPers using it?
Perhaps a reason better then to just go and smash something or someone? Like they have in dungeons, some kind of rewards? There can be so many things if they actually want to come up with something. And yes, the only encounter that ever happens to be there is a domination I mean lol? we can just que for dominations give us a break and find something better to keep your customers from getting bored.
Perhaps a reason better then to just go and smash something or someone? Like they have in dungeons, some kind of rewards?
Why do there have to be rewards? Why does the activity have to be structured at all? It's OPEN WORLD. You can do whatever you like.
You don't have to do Domination at all. You can just beat each other up. Isn't that its own reward?
This is what I mean about thinking more broadly. You still seem to be stuck in this linear mode of "do something --> get rewards --> do something harder --> get better rewards --> etc."
Why do there have to be rewards? Why does the activity have to be structured at all? It's OPEN WORLD. You can do whatever you like.
You don't have to do Domination at all. You can just beat each other up. Isn't that its own reward?
This is what I mean about thinking more broadly. You still seem to be stuck in this linear mode of "do something --> get rewards --> do something harder --> get better rewards --> etc."
I get your point, but tell me this, if even I run all the time at open world pvp, how many others are there like me who would just want to kill for no reason at all? Don't many of the people play games to have achievements as well as fun? everyone wants to do a dungeon for what? killing a boss and that's it? No they want the reward and a reason to do what they do. Then why not pvp'ers?
Do you really think I would just want to kill people at open world all day and be happy with that ..
Let's talk about this one. What exactly do you want with regards to Open World PVP as viable end game content? I mean, it's there. You can do whatever you wish with it. What would make it more appealing?
I recall, before mod3, lots of PVPers on the forums wanting something like Open World PVP. Well, here it is. Why aren't more PVPers using it? Sure the restriction on instance switching can be annoying. But it's there for a good reason, otherwise you will have 200 AB's ganking every single TT that happens along. I can understand Cryptic not wanting this result. But is that something you would want?
Ill dive into this. Players dont JUST want open world PVP. They want competitive open world PVP. Two games that I have experience with that exemplified this very well were: Runescape and WoW (Vanilla).
Open world PVP was something that had a PURPOSE to putting yourself in danger. In Runescape you had the ability to kill someone and get the items they had equipped. In WoW, part of the open world appeal was the danger involved in going to an enemy faction and "ganking" which due to instance swapping cannot be replicated in NW.
So what WOULD make Open World work here? To be frank, you would need to introduce an entire PVP activated ZONE. Not just a certain PVP area. You also need to create higher rewards for the higher risks. This could be fairly well done by having things such as faster respawn timers on the Epic HEs such as Remo and Beho. You could also create a better drop chance for items in the PVP zone, you could also give more BI for the PVP instances.
Forsure what needs to happen though to make it worth while is: Less # of PVP zones, along with the entire instance being PVP active (aside from camp fires) along with increased reward.
You could even theoretically do this with the new mod 4 system as well. Create a PVP version of that zone for leveling purposes too. Have players sign up with a faction (either GG related, TT/AB related or a different one altogether) then the balance should be done on a zone by zone basis. So if the # of players is capped at 30, only a MAX of 15 could be from any side. Period.
Another aspect that RUINED OW pvp is Pets. Its a joke in the PVP community when players HAVe to say lets 1v1 but dismiss your pets. Its TOO large an advantage and not applicable in "real" PVP - Domination, so its a deterrant for trying to get fair fights.
Another issue with OW Domination is you have no way of knowing when its going to POP and because there are SO many versions of maps, rarely can you even get a team together for it AND rarely can you ever get fair fights - its usually a zerg fest. How they could fix this, again, is only have a select number of 100% PVP enabled zones, and in these zones they have a timer for the BI domination. These PVP zones would also be played with pets dismissed and healing Depression active 100% (basically treats them like domination maps).
I think overall the risk/reward is part of the issue, in domination there is no way to "force" a fair matchup so its not ever really competative... It seems to me, an easy thing they could do, is take the two OW domination maps, "seal" them off and allow you to Que for them like you do in domination.
How this would work:
1) PVE zones - the PVP area is no longer a PVP area, free to roam/farm etc.
2) Select Number of instance #s (maybe only 1 or 2 - again depending on population) would be 100% PVP enabled 24/7. These zones have: better BI deposits, faster respawns on Epic HEs such as Beho, and possibly better chance of getting rewards from them too - at the risk of being ganked! PVP areas would naturally be pvp areas STILL With very little going on in there - NO more PVP domination.
3) Open World Domination would now be converted to MAPS for PVP Domination. You Que for PVP, Now you have FOUR maps to choose from (randomly of course). If you get one of the OW Dom maps, it basically creates an "invisible" wall where the PVP barrier is. Thus sealing off the map outside the PVP area.
Now youve created:
1) PVE only IDW/DV zones - so PVE players can be happy.
2) Limited number of PVP ONLY zones so PVPers can go and find a fight AND have the reward for their risk detailed above.
3) 2 NEW PVP Domination maps - that would be LOVED by the PVP community.
Ill dive into this. Players dont JUST want open world PVP. They want competitive open world PVP.
Well, in your lengthy response, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Why would having an entire map PVP-active suddenly make it "competitive PVP", when having a map that is only partially PVP active somehow doesn't make it "competitive"?
Another aspect that RUINED OW pvp is Pets.
You are free not to use companions if you wish.
Another issue with OW Domination is you have no way of knowing when its going to POP
You are free not to even participate in a Domination mode if you don't want to. Rivenscar/Hotenow are much better for that anyway.
It seems as if people want structured open-world PVP. Which in my mind seems like an oxymoron.
If you only care about gear then once you've got the best gear, take a break from the game and come back in a few months or so because they will introduce new gear.
Well, in your lengthy response, your conclusion does not follow from your premise. I think it does and I think you missed the point. Maybe Competative is not the correct word, but I think you may see my point below.
Why would having an entire map PVP-active suddenly make it "competitive PVP", when having a map that is only partially PVP active somehow doesn't make it "competitive"? Because it removed PVP from the other zones and created (for example) ONE Instance where PVP is enabled 24/7 - across the ENTIRE map not just one small "area". The reason this works is it forces the PVPers into a more DENSE area. Where right now you may have say 4-5 people in 15 different instance #s who are PVPers looking to PVP. If you condense them all to ONE or TWO pvp instances where PVP is enabled for the ENTIRE instance and not just a small area, now you have 25 PVPers in 2 instances. Chances are there WILL be blood and FUN PVP. Also you remove the PVP/PVE blend where PVE-ers can go and use their PVE pots/buffs/pets in their PVE ONLY instance #s but the PVP instances stay more PURE to PVP where HD is active 24/7, PVE pots dont work. Pets dont work, etc. Basically makes the game "hard mode and copies domination but in open world.
Also, If I am LOOKING for a fight. I know I can zone to one of the ONE or TWO PVP instance #s active and find a fight fairly quickly, might even need to bring a friend or THREE! One the current system, chances are itll be 10 minutes + before I find some ONE to fight and chances are again ill probably crush them. Either that or itll be 1v5 and ill get stomped or stomp the ONE with my factions 5 because there are no teammates nearby.
You are free not to use companions if you wish. Again you miss the point. If player A is using a cockatrice and Player B isnt, its not even close to a fair fight. Its also much LESS about real skill or balance or anything and pets cause a MASSIVE MASSIVE balance problem for PVP. Players dont want to go to OW PVP to lose to a pet battle, they want to fight the player not their pet buffs.... If pets ONL offered stats, that could work fine, but pets offer ALOT of advantages like Evoker for example that just SHREDS TRs.
You are free not to even participate in a Domination mode if you don't want to. Rivenscar/Hotenow are much better for that anyway. Thats the issue, I WANT To participate, but its RARELY ever fun. I purposefully farm BI in PVP zones and almost NEVER even see someone from the opposing faction, let alone find players to fight. Its either 3-5 players on my faction who ROFL stomp some random opposer, or I am the random and get stomped by 3-5 on their faction. Its nowhere near a fun experience. If the entire zone was PVP enabled, you would know there will be alot of players in the zone. Also when I chance a OW domination spawn while farming, its usually a ROFL stomp and 3 cap almost instantly because there are no opponents. This is why Domination should be removed from "OW" and removed from a "random spawn" and those two maps should be placed into the PVP Que. Just wall off the rest of the zone, heck even just remove the rest of the zone and snip out that PVP area(for dominantion). You can leave the "area" in ALL the instances - it wouldnt serve much purpose but to extend the maps and also players could potentially "scout out" the maps, or organize pvp in those areas. who knows! - still would be the PVP quests in the PVP instance #s that would involve those areas too BTW.
It seems as if people want structured open-world PVP. Which in my mind seems like an oxymoron.
Players dont necessarily want structured OW PVP, they want LESS instance #s so it forces a more "dense" population of PVPers in areas. Having ONE or TWO PVP 24/7 zones makes it much more chaotic but much more fun because youll constantly have players battling eahoother, either randomly during quests, small teams ganking people, large guild versus guild battles ETC. Removing pets makes it MUCH more fun and less about pets too.
I cant tell you how many times our guild would JUMP when we heard another guild was in a PVP zone to go battle. Players would drop what they were doing to go PVP. Sadly this rarely happens and part of the reason is all the issues above:
1) Pets
2) Easy to run away out of PVP
3) Number of instances spreads the PVP players out too much
4) No incentive to go into PVP zones.
Address the issues above by:
1) Removing Pets from the PVP Instance #s
2) Its an entire INSTANCE so you cant just run to "safe zones" You can only zone out, out of combat, campfires dont remove you from PVP, so you cant just run away.
3) Shrink the Instance #s that have PVP only to 1 or 2 (again based on population). Keep a LARGE number open for PVE only. Restrict number of each faction IN THE ZONE, not on a large basis. And dont let players get around the zone caps. Forced a more dense pop and more frequent LARGE scale battles
4) Incentive to GO TO PVP instance #s due to faster respawns on Epic HEs, better BI deposits, better rewards ETC.
Now you would see ALOT of PVP in OW.
Then remove DOm maps and put those in Domination Que, PVP community would be VERY happy with two new maps to play!!!
I dont 'very much' like the open world pvp but since they made it, might as well make it fun and satisfying. Leaving it be halfway is no excuse to say 'we tried'.
There maybe many little reasons I don't find it that fun, but the most disappointing for me was to discover that you get nothing but some xp with the only few quests we have for open world pvp. I am lv 60. fun.
Even low level pvp has that one quest to award rough ad's for 1 domination, something close that doesnt need to be the same reward would do too.
~We need more PvP types. Tired of Dominations!~
0
arontimesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
One idea I suggested in another thread is to only allow one set of boons to be active, in the same way that you can have only one weapon enchantment and one armor enchantment per character. Selecting a boon set would enable all if the boons you unlocked for that set and disable all other boons. For example, if you want PvP specific advantages, you would activate the PvP Boon set or perhaps the IWD set. This way, unlocking boons from different modules doesn't give you raw power but rather more options. Essentially, sidegrades instead of upgrades.
The various boon sets would have to be rebranded or even condensed to make them competitive with each other instead of there being one clear choice. This change would limit power creep not just in the game today, but for all future modules as well.
This thread was started by a non experienced mmorpg player.
Anyone who has spent a serious amount of time in the grinding games knows better.
Take your time. Experience the game.
You young bucks want to rush out, buy up everything you can get so you can have the most uber gear, brag to your friends how cool you are because you can beat up someone with twice as less gear as you. You kids make me laugh.
Way to waste all your money on a f2p game and now you have nothing to do.
This thread was started by a non experienced mmorpg player.
Anyone who has spent a serious amount of time in the grinding games knows better.
Take your time. Experience the game.
You young bucks want to rush out, buy up everything you can get so you can have the most uber gear, brag to your friends how cool you are because you can beat up someone with twice as less gear as you. You kids make me laugh.
Way to waste all your money on a f2p game and now you have nothing to do.
In the voice of Nelson < HA HA >
Thank you for your input but i have played plenty of MMO games. Even one of the biggest i played for 7 years. In that MMO the mind-numbing grinding was there as well. But that was only grinding for gold and pots so we could attempt to clear the PvE dungeons/content/end game. It made sense to grind for gold and pots and repair bills, because thats what you needed to do if you want to try to clear some of most difficult content.
In this game on the other hand, the grinding is the content. Thats whats wrong about it. Im not grinding for repair bills or pots after a all night raid where loot is going to drop for 1 of the 7 classes if you are pro enough to kill the boss. No, here the grinding is the endgame and the boss is RNG.
Well I think a lot of people would take exception to your PVP model. What you basically want is a gankzone. Which is why Cryptic was very wise in forbidding instance switching in IWD.
But here's the thing. As things currently stand, you and your buddies can run around IWD and gank the other PVPers. You can have what you profess to desire right now. You just can't force everyone else to be ganked by you.
So if your idea of "real endgame content" in the context of Open World PVP is just a gankfest, then yeah, I don't think that's a reasonable request.
I get your point, but tell me this, if even I run all the time at open world pvp, how many others are there like me who would just want to kill for no reason at all? Don't many of the people play games to have achievements as well as fun? everyone wants to do a dungeon for what? killing a boss and that's it? No they want the reward and a reason to do what they do. Then why not pvp'ers?
Do you really think I would just want to kill people at open world all day and be happy with that ..
Why do you queue for PVP Domination? Do you (still) do it for the glory?
Cryptic has decided that their idea of "endgame content" is to provide a menu of options, instead of one narrow progression path. People seem to be complaining that there isn't any structure to the menu. I find that to be a strength, not a weakness.
Thank you for your input but i have played plenty of MMO games. Even one of the biggest i played for 7 years. In that MMO the mind-numbing grinding was there as well. But that was only grinding for gold and pots so we could attempt to clear the PvE dungeons/content/end game. It made sense to grind for gold and pots and repair bills, because thats what you needed to do if you want to try to clear some of most difficult content.
In this game on the other hand, the grinding is the content. Thats whats wrong about it. Im not grinding for repair bills or pots after a all night raid where loot is going to drop for 1 of the 7 classes if you are pro enough to kill the boss. No, here the grinding is the endgame and the boss is RNG.
Yep, but we are talking about NWN, it's not a serious MMORPG, Cryptics make games for casual people and just that, so, if you are searching for a serious game where you enjoy defeating a hard dungeon instead of farming for nothing, leave.
This thread was started by a non experienced mmorpg player.
Anyone who has spent a serious amount of time in the grinding games knows better.
Take your time. Experience the game.
You young bucks want to rush out, buy up everything you can get so you can have the most uber gear, brag to your friends how cool you are because you can beat up someone with twice as less gear as you. You kids make me laugh.
Way to waste all your money on a f2p game and now you have nothing to do.
People like to experience the game in different ways. Some people like dailies, others want the endgame that MMOs provide. A lot of people hate dailies so why should they be subjected into spending a lot of time "experiencing" it?
Also, do not assume that just because people are well-geared that means they spent money. Neverwinter has been out for more than a year now. People have gotten rich legit and otherwise. It is not that hard to be rich if you've been a player for a long time.
Well I think a lot of people would take exception to your PVP model. What you basically want is a gankzone. Which is why Cryptic was very wise in forbidding instance switching in IWD.
But here's the thing. As things currently stand, you and your buddies can run around IWD and gank the other PVPers. You can have what you profess to desire right now. You just can't force everyone else to be ganked by you.
So if your idea of "real endgame content" in the context of Open World PVP is just a gankfest, then yeah, I don't think that's a reasonable request.
Im not sure what your getting at, noone is asking for a gank fest, thats what is WRONG with the current model. All that happens in IWD or DV PVP zones is a random group occasionally runs across a single person from the other faction, kills them instantly, he respawns and runs away to another zone/area or instance #.
Noone would force anyone to join the PVP dedicated instance #s, so there is no "gank fest" as you call it. What it IS though is ONE instance where all the PVP players go, with PVP active in the entire zone.
It would be the exact opposite of what it is now. Players would zone in, MOST likely try and party with a few players to be able to compete. Youd have big pvp battles over the Epic HEs, with players on both sides trying to not only kill/complete the HE but also kill the opposing faction.
There wouldnt be "ganking" unless you call "ganking" big scale PVP battles... Its ONE instance where ALL the PVP happens, so you know everytime you go there, its gonna be some chaotic battles either way.
Maybe it will be a numbers game, although I dont think so, I watched a TR (guild mate) yesterday take on 5 guys and kill them all. YOu would 110% have to disable pets in this entire zone though to make it more fair. Also, again, hardcap the player count AND faction count. Then you have the luxury of NOT having to "cap" each faction like they have now. Anyone could join any faction.
You could even have a special "zone-in" from the PVP battlemaster guys in KaerConig who would transport you to either THE PVP instance or if its full a second PVP instance. So it would have a MINIMUM number of players at all times.
Maybe the "hard cap" is 30 for each instance, but open hitting 20 PVP players in PVP instance #1 youd open a second one, and start filling that.
I would almost guarantee that youd see a HUGE HUGE lift in world PVP going on.
Also, removing the Open World Domination (again which IS currently a true gank fest) you take those two maps and put them into the PVP Domination Que. You could even put the PVP quests INTO that domination so it would be like OW PVP, Maybe THIS would be a 10vs10 - something weve ALL been asking for!
So youd have 5v5: PVP Domination
10vs10: IWD/DV PVP domination
20vs20: GG
And open world PVP in the PVP dedicated instance. You pretty much HAVE to remove PVP from the PVE instances or else you wont get the desired effect of "condensing" the population of players who want to PVP into one or two instances.
Why do there have to be rewards? Why does the activity have to be structured at all? It's OPEN WORLD. You can do whatever you like.
You don't have to do Domination at all. You can just beat each other up. Isn't that its own reward?
This is what I mean about thinking more broadly. You still seem to be stuck in this linear mode of "do something --> get rewards --> do something harder --> get better rewards --> etc."
Well clearly in needs fixing because it is DEAD. How do you fix it? Lessen the instances to avoid 3-man ganks and increase the chances of 15v15 wars. Give more rewards to give incentive to run it.
You put rewards in open world to incentive players to participate in it. Lots of players in open world and you don't need to increase rewards anymore. Did your brain understand that now?
Comments
Builds aren't always supposed to be about stats and gear, but that's just me. I see it more as an interplay of all the available tools we have to personalize our play style. Most builds tend to have "stats" as their prominent feature, which are easy to stack in most games, specially Neverwinter. But it is preferable to go beyond just stats.
Some players may feel "forced" to play a certain build, but this is an experience that happens to players who like to play in the most optimal manner possible. Theorycrafting in my opinion, however, isn't always about what's optimal and what's not.
We seem to be seeing two very different things right now. I just see build creation and theorycrafting as a challenge in innovation and creating new play styles, rather than a challenge in "skill" or creating elaborate methods of executing something which one could have done easier in another manner. But that's just me.
IDK, man. Share it, let the others enjoy it and possibly improve it, then jump to the next build, I guess. The act of exploring our capabilities has been pretty much my main reason in playing MMOs. Some people play MMOs for the adventure, or to clash blades with other players. But in my opinion, the content can wait and shouldn't be rushed. But of course, this is coming from a non-hardcore gamer who merely like to build things and theorycraft.
Tyranny of Dragons is a different story, though. The thing is just too d*mn long.
We've got a lot of those coming so I'm not too worried about it. It's slow, but it will come. People will always be hungry for new content.
I for one believe that the Foundry should be significantly improved. We have a whole dang salvo of creative Foundry Artists, and it's so wrong not to give them the means to provide their fellow players with a challenging and rewarding experience using the Foundry.
Cryptic can release some sort of Creators Pack for the Foundry Artists. Creators Pack can contain additional Foundry Functions and Content such as Boss Fights, better end-chest loot, additional creatures one can only encounter in the Foundry, additional textures such as Desert Terrain, additional animations and environmental effects, the ability to create PVP maps; sky's the limit!
From my knowledge, hardcore RP-ers (and there are a lot of them too) would be more than willing to pay for the abilities to create such content.
I for one, however, would settle for a REAL SOLO challenge.
Decided to post my replies on your suggestions on a different post, so things would be clear.
1. Good idea. Or, if possible, just change all the stats that Boons provide to the exotic ones we do not have access to from gear alone such as Action Point Gain, Control Resist/Penetration, Incoming Healing etc. Those stats are highly situational and is hard to stack to kingdom high unlike the ones we usually see in our gear.
3. Yep, redesigning the current content to be more challenging would be nice. PVPVE dungeons, anyone? Adding a whole new element of danger in dungeons would introduce a new dimension to both PVP and PVE.
4. Yes. Overly tedious and uncreative.
5. Not much to say here. I just want new maps myself, preferably maps with creative layouts that would inspire different strategies and team plays.
Why are you only "former"-community moderator. you seem like an awesome guy and should have continued. Anyway, im not an RP fan and i like playing with other people and doing parties.
This game fooled me a little because its an "MMOrpg". but really it caters mostly to solo players like you. Usually i would tell you to l2p and go play another game, but it looks like most of the NW players are solo players and im worried they will never offer anything to end game players (mix/maxers).
PvP is kinda lost and forgotten and the PvE dungeons are so easy now since our stats is 10x times higher then what it was when the dungeons were made. I will just call them Addgeons from now on, because of the adds.
If the addgeons get adjusted in difficulty, it would be great to scale the gear up for the next module so enchants/artifact/boons dosent mean 90% of your stats. I've made an easy suggestion in this thread which would IMO close the gap a bit from old players and new players and we would get some competitive PvP again. And if the addgeons got adjusted abit(alot) in difficulty it wouldent matter much with greater stats on gear because everything would be easily balanced out.
Dailies are not endgame content. Dailies are work to get to the endgame content.
So where is the endgame content?
Dungeons don't give good loot and depend on RNG of the artifact weapon chest.
Open world pvp is dead.
Heroic encounters give you the same reward for AFKing and participating.
We still have 2 maps and no new pvp modes
Does cryptic really want to wait 2 more modules before introducing new endgame content?
Thank you very much, Abecassis! The game isn't actually too friendly for us solo players as well. We have very limited means to truly tackle anything solo, and it takes a lot of effort to experience the challenge of soloing an epic dungeon nowadays, as compared to before. I'd love to be able to challenge myself with soloing dungeons again, but it's just not possible right now.
Sometimes I think of how dungeons would be if we aren't able to see the red splats on the ground whenever our enemies are about to use powerful skills. Part of me is wishing to see this luxury removed from the game.
By having the telegraphs removed, PVE players would need to be more attentive about details, enemy movements and their behaviors rather than relying on the red splats to tell them what to do next. It's a simple idea but could breath new life unto PVE.
You hit the dragon once and you go to a safe spot and AFK. That is not very hard.
I do think that there are some people around here who have a rather narrow view of what "endgame content" ought to be.
I have not played other MMOs, but from reading their descriptions here, it seems as if other MMOs have endgame that consist of:
fight a dungeon --> get good gear --> fight hard dungeon --> get better gear --> fight harder dungeon --> get even better gear --> fight even harder dungeon --> etc.
So it's a very linear progression path.
This game, it seems, takes more of a buffet approach. Do the endgame content that you wish; you don't need to have the tippy-top best gear to do it all, you just need reasonable gear, in order to explore a variety of content. Foundries, PVP, kill dragons, do HE's in IWD, etc.
Also, Cryptic appears to have made the conscious decision that most of the endgame content ought to be accessible to most of the playerbase, even the casuals, even those who aren't hardcore min/maxers. Apparently this is different than other MMOs, where only the top elite got to experience the true endgame. I rather like the more egalitarian approach in this game actually, but I can understand how others would not.
Dead open world PVP could've been an endgame
More PVP maps and modes could've been an endgame
Gauntylgrym being for more than 1 hour could've been an endgame
This new dungeon not being dependent on being crazy enough to do dailies over and over again as well as the RNG could've been an endgame.
It is not as linear as you pointed it out to be.
I still think they should revisit the soft cap and scaling of stats. I also think that they should factor DOWN (scale back) all stat gains and give it a much less harsh curve. Right now once you hti the soft cap, it hurts HARD. If they diminished the amount each stat gave and then straightened out the curve more that could work really well.
Let's talk about this one. What exactly do you want with regards to Open World PVP as viable end game content? I mean, it's there. You can do whatever you wish with it. What would make it more appealing?
I recall, before mod3, lots of PVPers on the forums wanting something like Open World PVP. Well, here it is. Why aren't more PVPers using it? Sure the restriction on instance switching can be annoying. But it's there for a good reason, otherwise you will have 200 AB's ganking every single TT that happens along. I can understand Cryptic not wanting this result. But is that something you would want?
Players actually being there?
Having better rewards? (nobody needs black ice anymore now that they introduced overpowered glyphs)
Being able to switch instances at will?
Not having too many instances?
Having a mode that isn't an exact duplicate of the PVP domination we have now?
You know why players get ganked easily? Because the instances are always dead so a party of 3-4players easily translates to a huge force and imbalanced ganking
Why do there have to be rewards? Why does the activity have to be structured at all? It's OPEN WORLD. You can do whatever you like.
You don't have to do Domination at all. You can just beat each other up. Isn't that its own reward?
This is what I mean about thinking more broadly. You still seem to be stuck in this linear mode of "do something --> get rewards --> do something harder --> get better rewards --> etc."
Do you really think I would just want to kill people at open world all day and be happy with that ..
Ill dive into this. Players dont JUST want open world PVP. They want competitive open world PVP. Two games that I have experience with that exemplified this very well were: Runescape and WoW (Vanilla).
Open world PVP was something that had a PURPOSE to putting yourself in danger. In Runescape you had the ability to kill someone and get the items they had equipped. In WoW, part of the open world appeal was the danger involved in going to an enemy faction and "ganking" which due to instance swapping cannot be replicated in NW.
So what WOULD make Open World work here? To be frank, you would need to introduce an entire PVP activated ZONE. Not just a certain PVP area. You also need to create higher rewards for the higher risks. This could be fairly well done by having things such as faster respawn timers on the Epic HEs such as Remo and Beho. You could also create a better drop chance for items in the PVP zone, you could also give more BI for the PVP instances.
Forsure what needs to happen though to make it worth while is: Less # of PVP zones, along with the entire instance being PVP active (aside from camp fires) along with increased reward.
You could even theoretically do this with the new mod 4 system as well. Create a PVP version of that zone for leveling purposes too. Have players sign up with a faction (either GG related, TT/AB related or a different one altogether) then the balance should be done on a zone by zone basis. So if the # of players is capped at 30, only a MAX of 15 could be from any side. Period.
Another aspect that RUINED OW pvp is Pets. Its a joke in the PVP community when players HAVe to say lets 1v1 but dismiss your pets. Its TOO large an advantage and not applicable in "real" PVP - Domination, so its a deterrant for trying to get fair fights.
Another issue with OW Domination is you have no way of knowing when its going to POP and because there are SO many versions of maps, rarely can you even get a team together for it AND rarely can you ever get fair fights - its usually a zerg fest. How they could fix this, again, is only have a select number of 100% PVP enabled zones, and in these zones they have a timer for the BI domination. These PVP zones would also be played with pets dismissed and healing Depression active 100% (basically treats them like domination maps).
I think overall the risk/reward is part of the issue, in domination there is no way to "force" a fair matchup so its not ever really competative... It seems to me, an easy thing they could do, is take the two OW domination maps, "seal" them off and allow you to Que for them like you do in domination.
How this would work:
1) PVE zones - the PVP area is no longer a PVP area, free to roam/farm etc.
2) Select Number of instance #s (maybe only 1 or 2 - again depending on population) would be 100% PVP enabled 24/7. These zones have: better BI deposits, faster respawns on Epic HEs such as Beho, and possibly better chance of getting rewards from them too - at the risk of being ganked! PVP areas would naturally be pvp areas STILL With very little going on in there - NO more PVP domination.
3) Open World Domination would now be converted to MAPS for PVP Domination. You Que for PVP, Now you have FOUR maps to choose from (randomly of course). If you get one of the OW Dom maps, it basically creates an "invisible" wall where the PVP barrier is. Thus sealing off the map outside the PVP area.
Now youve created:
1) PVE only IDW/DV zones - so PVE players can be happy.
2) Limited number of PVP ONLY zones so PVPers can go and find a fight AND have the reward for their risk detailed above.
3) 2 NEW PVP Domination maps - that would be LOVED by the PVP community.
Well, in your lengthy response, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Why would having an entire map PVP-active suddenly make it "competitive PVP", when having a map that is only partially PVP active somehow doesn't make it "competitive"?
You are free not to use companions if you wish.
You are free not to even participate in a Domination mode if you don't want to. Rivenscar/Hotenow are much better for that anyway.
It seems as if people want structured open-world PVP. Which in my mind seems like an oxymoron.
Make or play foundries.
If you only care about gear then once you've got the best gear, take a break from the game and come back in a few months or so because they will introduce new gear.
I cant tell you how many times our guild would JUMP when we heard another guild was in a PVP zone to go battle. Players would drop what they were doing to go PVP. Sadly this rarely happens and part of the reason is all the issues above:
1) Pets
2) Easy to run away out of PVP
3) Number of instances spreads the PVP players out too much
4) No incentive to go into PVP zones.
Address the issues above by:
1) Removing Pets from the PVP Instance #s
2) Its an entire INSTANCE so you cant just run to "safe zones" You can only zone out, out of combat, campfires dont remove you from PVP, so you cant just run away.
3) Shrink the Instance #s that have PVP only to 1 or 2 (again based on population). Keep a LARGE number open for PVE only. Restrict number of each faction IN THE ZONE, not on a large basis. And dont let players get around the zone caps. Forced a more dense pop and more frequent LARGE scale battles
4) Incentive to GO TO PVP instance #s due to faster respawns on Epic HEs, better BI deposits, better rewards ETC.
Now you would see ALOT of PVP in OW.
Then remove DOm maps and put those in Domination Que, PVP community would be VERY happy with two new maps to play!!!
There maybe many little reasons I don't find it that fun, but the most disappointing for me was to discover that you get nothing but some xp with the only few quests we have for open world pvp. I am lv 60. fun.
Even low level pvp has that one quest to award rough ad's for 1 domination, something close that doesnt need to be the same reward would do too.
The various boon sets would have to be rebranded or even condensed to make them competitive with each other instead of there being one clear choice. This change would limit power creep not just in the game today, but for all future modules as well.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
Anyone who has spent a serious amount of time in the grinding games knows better.
Take your time. Experience the game.
You young bucks want to rush out, buy up everything you can get so you can have the most uber gear, brag to your friends how cool you are because you can beat up someone with twice as less gear as you. You kids make me laugh.
Way to waste all your money on a f2p game and now you have nothing to do.
In the voice of Nelson < HA HA >
Thank you for your input but i have played plenty of MMO games. Even one of the biggest i played for 7 years. In that MMO the mind-numbing grinding was there as well. But that was only grinding for gold and pots so we could attempt to clear the PvE dungeons/content/end game. It made sense to grind for gold and pots and repair bills, because thats what you needed to do if you want to try to clear some of most difficult content.
In this game on the other hand, the grinding is the content. Thats whats wrong about it. Im not grinding for repair bills or pots after a all night raid where loot is going to drop for 1 of the 7 classes if you are pro enough to kill the boss. No, here the grinding is the endgame and the boss is RNG.
Well I think a lot of people would take exception to your PVP model. What you basically want is a gankzone. Which is why Cryptic was very wise in forbidding instance switching in IWD.
But here's the thing. As things currently stand, you and your buddies can run around IWD and gank the other PVPers. You can have what you profess to desire right now. You just can't force everyone else to be ganked by you.
So if your idea of "real endgame content" in the context of Open World PVP is just a gankfest, then yeah, I don't think that's a reasonable request.
Why do you queue for PVP Domination? Do you (still) do it for the glory?
Cryptic has decided that their idea of "endgame content" is to provide a menu of options, instead of one narrow progression path. People seem to be complaining that there isn't any structure to the menu. I find that to be a strength, not a weakness.
Yep, but we are talking about NWN, it's not a serious MMORPG, Cryptics make games for casual people and just that, so, if you are searching for a serious game where you enjoy defeating a hard dungeon instead of farming for nothing, leave.
People like to experience the game in different ways. Some people like dailies, others want the endgame that MMOs provide. A lot of people hate dailies so why should they be subjected into spending a lot of time "experiencing" it?
Also, do not assume that just because people are well-geared that means they spent money. Neverwinter has been out for more than a year now. People have gotten rich legit and otherwise. It is not that hard to be rich if you've been a player for a long time.
Im not sure what your getting at, noone is asking for a gank fest, thats what is WRONG with the current model. All that happens in IWD or DV PVP zones is a random group occasionally runs across a single person from the other faction, kills them instantly, he respawns and runs away to another zone/area or instance #.
Noone would force anyone to join the PVP dedicated instance #s, so there is no "gank fest" as you call it. What it IS though is ONE instance where all the PVP players go, with PVP active in the entire zone.
It would be the exact opposite of what it is now. Players would zone in, MOST likely try and party with a few players to be able to compete. Youd have big pvp battles over the Epic HEs, with players on both sides trying to not only kill/complete the HE but also kill the opposing faction.
There wouldnt be "ganking" unless you call "ganking" big scale PVP battles... Its ONE instance where ALL the PVP happens, so you know everytime you go there, its gonna be some chaotic battles either way.
Maybe it will be a numbers game, although I dont think so, I watched a TR (guild mate) yesterday take on 5 guys and kill them all. YOu would 110% have to disable pets in this entire zone though to make it more fair. Also, again, hardcap the player count AND faction count. Then you have the luxury of NOT having to "cap" each faction like they have now. Anyone could join any faction.
You could even have a special "zone-in" from the PVP battlemaster guys in KaerConig who would transport you to either THE PVP instance or if its full a second PVP instance. So it would have a MINIMUM number of players at all times.
Maybe the "hard cap" is 30 for each instance, but open hitting 20 PVP players in PVP instance #1 youd open a second one, and start filling that.
I would almost guarantee that youd see a HUGE HUGE lift in world PVP going on.
Also, removing the Open World Domination (again which IS currently a true gank fest) you take those two maps and put them into the PVP Domination Que. You could even put the PVP quests INTO that domination so it would be like OW PVP, Maybe THIS would be a 10vs10 - something weve ALL been asking for!
So youd have 5v5: PVP Domination
10vs10: IWD/DV PVP domination
20vs20: GG
And open world PVP in the PVP dedicated instance. You pretty much HAVE to remove PVP from the PVE instances or else you wont get the desired effect of "condensing" the population of players who want to PVP into one or two instances.
Well clearly in needs fixing because it is DEAD. How do you fix it? Lessen the instances to avoid 3-man ganks and increase the chances of 15v15 wars. Give more rewards to give incentive to run it.
You put rewards in open world to incentive players to participate in it. Lots of players in open world and you don't need to increase rewards anymore. Did your brain understand that now?