You are right, there are many ways to complete the same tasks. But in a Developers mind his goal is to have diversity and class roles, the GF's job is to protect the party and tank! Now if you wanna DPS race or CW stack, or go 5 GWFs thats fine too... But the class role for a CW is not to protect the party unless its to save your DC with a well timed CC. CW, is there to maintain control and keep groups together so the party can kill the group without running all over the dungeon.
Except that while the GF is better at that, they still can't tank unless they overgear the content. You guys are just buff bots that provide a mitigation buff and damage buffs, sort of like a DC. And honestly while running the new KV can you even lifesteal or regen enough to stay alive without a DC strapped to your hip?
Except that while the GF is better at that, they still can't tank unless they overgear the content. You guys are just buff bots that provide a mitigation buff and damage buffs, sort of like a DC. And honestly while running the new KV can you even lifesteal or regen enough to stay alive without a DC strapped to your hip?
No! Not unless we outgear content and maybe still no... If they made GF crit immune in PvE would help us substantially. Getting life steal on a GF is harder than other classes as its a subspec stat, regen is what we normally have and taking 20% damage even when blocking kinda kills the regen effect. Not dpsing we generate little lifesteal, however fighters Recovery and the new Enforced Threat is amazing.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
No! Not unless we outgear content and maybe still no... If they made GF crit immune in PvE would help us substantially.
That means that to be effective you need 2 slots, a GF and either a DC or Tempt SW. That means you are still extremely far from being effective in PvE as a tank.
Well thank you for acknowledging that there is a bug for GF guard! I know we've brought it up in the GF feedback thread but heard no news on the subject as if it was WAI... This is great news!
I also play a CW and in MOD 3 CW were tough in PvP as GWF were so over the top ridiculous and HR, we suffered trying to get off powers trying to kite to survive. Now classes are better balanced the CW like you said needs that control and I like the idea but may I suggest before changing ANY CW spells or chill stacking fix the GF guard first and lets see how that plays out?
We are really the only class that has no way to counter the freeze unless we manage to get off a Villians Menace that seems to take a long time to get off and we end up frozen in the animation anyway... So I think if GF can block ICY Rays or Entangling Force with a well timed block everything may be fine and no changes will be needed in PvP anyway.
Try to stay objective. What you said basically is " - fix my GF so he can fight CWs but dont nerf my CW so when Im on him I can still kill most of the other classes with ease ". The wizard's mega cc + mega dmg is problem for everyone, not just GFs.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GF isn't the only class having "trouble" with the freeze and roots. Icy roots is undodgable and as far as the freeze, from your OP:
Ya Rip often exhibits tunnel vision, "seeing" only what he wants to see at any given moment/topic
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited September 2014
Please do not over-adjust.. so many changes! CW needs to be viable in all areas of the game, Solo daily wise, pvp and DDs.
Do not just listen to non CWs only, please hear the correct feedback.
I know there are alot of really good ones out there who are honest, Ill leave it to them, but the amount of just off the wall feedback is just too much.
Try to stay objective. What you said basically is " - fix my GF so he can fight CWs but dont nerf my CW so when Im on him I can still kill most of the other classes with ease ". The wizard's mega cc + mega dmg is problem for everyone, not just GFs.
I got a 17k+ CW and a 19k+ GWF. My GWF wins 90% of the fights with CWs. My CW gets killed 1v1 against well geared GWFs or GFs, pathfinder HRs and perma TRs (if I dont respec for fighting them). DC cant kill anything wellgeared alone and I have not met enough decent SWs to come to an opinion there, but to say, that CWs are a problem for everyone is wrong.
Wait for pathfinder HRs to get their leg. artefact weapon with +30% melee dmg, than you can talk about a problem for everyone.
I dont play HR, a friend of mine has HR as main and said OMG +30%, followed by manic laughter. OFC he could have missread it. He told me twice about awsome new companions and he missed the 'buff applies to companion' note.^^
+30 dmg sounds more reasonable. I hope you are right.
Please do not over-adjust.. so many changes! CW needs to be viable in all areas of the game, Solo daily wise, pvp and DDs.
Do not just listen to non CWs only, please hear the correct feedback.
I know there are alot of really good ones out there who are honest, Ill leave it to them, but the amount of just off the wall feedback is just too much.
Thank you Devs in advance.
CW is in no danger of becoming unviable for anything PVE. They could potentially become not great again for PVP, but this change alone wouldn't do it. They'll still be a top class.
I play CW along with my HR.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited September 2014
I think the solution is much easier. Revert the change on freeze not breaking on damage. Instead, add to the Oppressor Capstone ability.
You then more clearly segregate the freezing control of Oppressor and the all out damage of the Thaumaturge. If you want to lock down targets, then you give up the damage potential of the Thaumaturge tree.
Right now, CW's don't really have to chose between damage and control, since a Thaumaturge using CoI in Tab and Icy Terrain/Storm Spell (feated) can freeze stuff instantly and nearly permanent.
I think the solution is much easier. Revert the change on freeze not breaking on damage. Instead, add to the Oppressor Capstone ability.
You then more clearly segregate the freezing control of Oppressor and the all out damage of the Thaumaturge. If you want to lock down targets, then you give up the damage potential of the Thaumaturge tree.
Right now, CW's don't really have to chose between damage and control, since a Thaumaturge using CoI in Tab and Icy Terrain/Storm Spell (feated) can freeze stuff instantly and nearly permanent.
You nailed it friend. That would be the perfect solution : Make unbreakable freeze part of the Oppressor Capstone Feat "Shatter Strike". Also move "Chilling Control" feat from tier 2 to tier 3,so that other paragon paths can't select it,and that's it. Oppressor now has absolute control, Thauma has absolute damage and Renegade has absolute................well a jack of all trades but master of none.
There are actually 2 problems here we are looking at.
Firstly, Guardian Block is not always blocking CC that comes in from the front like it is supposed to, so we are looking at that independent of Wizard CC potential.
Secondly, Wizards are getting a little *too* much chain CC potential. Given this we are looking at adding a duration after being frozen where you are immune to Chill Stacks. This duration will be related to how long you are controlled for. This will mean landing a successful Shatter Strike on the target will give them a little longer safe time before they can be controlled again.
The first iteration we are looking at is after being frozen from chill you will be immune to Chill stacks for 3 seconds after the freeze would have ended (before any strength and resistance get involved). After a successful shatter strike you will be immune for 3 seconds on players and 5 seconds on critters. This means that wizards can lock down a large number of foes but cannot do it forever. It is important to note that multiple wizards will SHARE this lockout, so it cannot be subverted by stacking more wizards.
We want controlling foes to be a powerful utility without totally disabling gameplay for everyone else.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
1. GWFs can stun you for much longer than CW.
2. HRs cannot CC you for long, but their stuns are instant. Faster than ANY encounter of any other class. They see your arm/head/leg move slightly to cast something, press a button: interrupted, cc'ed. Don't have to mention the fact that you're dead in the next 3 seconds after you're stunned due to the ridiculous piercing damage.
You broke enough. Revert all the changes back to Mod 3.
Try to stay objective. What you said basically is " - fix my GF so he can fight CWs but dont nerf my CW so when Im on him I can still kill most of the other classes with ease ". The wizard's mega cc + mega dmg is problem for everyone, not just GFs.
You speculate and interpret to much, I want the GF guard fixed however until Crush mentioned it was bugged we thought it was WAI. As for CW changing my CW is only 14.8k I cannot give true comment of how effective they are at top level pvp, only pugs... So I will not ask for anything other than what the thread was made for.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Ya Rip often exhibits tunnel vision, "seeing" only what he wants to see at any given moment/topic
I only play 2 classes at 60, I cannot comment on what I've not seen first hand. I know in matches the CWs seem to have a high kill ratio but also a pretty high death also. I know against a CW on my GF its a pain as my Guard doesn't block cc. I know on my CW I can kill people just as easy as I could in Mod 3! Not tunnel vision dude... I comment on my experience not the populous, thats why you guys are here.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
There are actually 2 problems here we are looking at.
Firstly, Guardian Block is not always blocking CC that comes in from the front like it is supposed to, so we are looking at that independent of Wizard CC potential.
Secondly, Wizards are getting a little *too* much chain CC potential. Given this we are looking at adding a duration after being frozen where you are immune to Chill Stacks. This duration will be related to how long you are controlled for. This will mean landing a successful Shatter Strike on the target will give them a little longer safe time before they can be controlled again.
The first iteration we are looking at is after being frozen from chill you will be immune to Chill stacks for 3 seconds after the freeze would have ended (before any strength and resistance get involved). After a successful shatter strike you will be immune for 3 seconds on players and 5 seconds on critters. This means that wizards can lock down a large number of foes but cannot do it forever. It is important to note that multiple wizards will SHARE this lockout, so it cannot be subverted by stacking more wizards.
We want controlling foes to be a powerful utility without totally disabling gameplay for everyone else.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This will not change anything .
First i block i will get icy ray "cannot be blocked" my legs are rooted then comes ray of frost (and if i have no daily "no VM to at least have a chance"i am dead cuz)
i am again frozen (controlled) with Rof for 2 sec "cannot be blocked" after i am an ICE berg next cw encounter EF another 2 sec(controlled) some rof mostly for proccing Storm and assailing +creepi & repel or chill strike (1 sec stun)or another 2 sec to catch up from the long ranged push then R&R i will get icy ray again and the "counter" can start again cuz this time (endlessly controlled) is way more then 3 sec . Any way 60k hp GF dont live enugh to see the second encounter blast mostly becuse CW has its daily is up in no time.
And even if i can hit CW he have tab shild so i will do no dmg.
CW can only be killed by a GF if he have 1' full daly and lucky crits or more then 2 ppl try to kill it ofc by surprize attack .
Any way i dont have any problem with CWs in dungeons and the nerf for GF KV wast necessary this have too much effect on pve . So this (chill) nerf for PVE is not necessary too!
The real problem is you cannot escape from cw in pvp.
Only 2 class can succesfull counter CW HR with her unlimited self heal and GWF with her nice CC resist but if he try to facetank CW he will be dead in no time (only suprize attack can help with full daily ofc).
So, ice clearly needs to break on damage. Absolutely. For both PvE and PvP balance that must happen.
However, regarding Oppressors capstone, Shatter already occurs just as something freezes which means that when they unfreeze Shatters stun has already worn off. Make the Oppressor Capstone apply when the ice actually shatters from damage and that will cover the only things that need to be changed. Shatter being applied when things are still frozen is a waste of time. You are effectively 'double stunning' them which completely makes the stun portion of Shatter useless.
Yes, ice must break from damage. But Oppressor needs to make some kind of use from that to keep things locked down. Dropping the hammer on freeze and crowd control in general is simply going to make absolutely everyone concentrate on nothing except Wizard damage because frankly there won't be anything left except for double-oppressive-force MoF builds for control.
That is just the way it is from my perspective. Frankly, in PvP I don't care. It will completely break the PvE game for Wizards who don't want to concentrate on nothing but damage. For people who only care about damage this doesn't really do anything to them at all.
Also, people blaming the Oppressor for near perma-freeze isn't the case. It's every CW spec and most egregiously the SS/Thaum using Chilling Control. This is the problem in a nutshell. CW do not need to choose CC or damage in their feats they can simply do both at the exact same time.
It was foolish to give Sudden Storm 5 instant stacks of chill and everyone said as much. I even have a topic devoted to this very issue. More than anything else this one easily obtained feat is to blame for the problems at hand for PvE.
Even more generally, the Paragon specific feats should not be second tier feats period. They should all be 3rd tier or higher given how they are supposed to be unique to that particular tree. If you can just grab them in builds that are not intended to utilize them you end up in this exact situation.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
1. GWFs can stun you for much longer than CW.
2. HRs cannot CC you for long, but their stuns are instant. Faster than ANY encounter of any other class. They see your arm/head/leg move slightly to cast something, press a button: interrupted, cc'ed. Don't have to mention the fact that you're dead in the next 3 seconds after you're stunned due to the ridiculous piercing damage.
You broke enough. Revert all the changes back to Mod 3.
Exactly mel, this is what virus and I have been saying even weeks before mod4 release, completely revert CW back to Mod3 because they completely broke the class with mod4
Don't waste my time.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
CW is in no danger of becoming unviable for anything PVE. They could potentially become not great again for PVP, but this change alone wouldn't do it. They'll still be a top class.
Unless they're renegades.
Oppressor now has absolute control, Thauma has absolute damage and Renegade has absolute................well a jack of all trades but master of none.
Jack **** is what they have. They went from the very top, if played well, to the very bottom with the TRs. There is no longer any use for a renegade in a group. Their damage is gone and their control, as always, is irrelevant.
You broke enough. Revert all the changes back to Mod 3.
Jack **** is what they have. They went from the very top, if played well, to the very bottom with the TRs. There is no longer any use for a renegade in a group. Their damage is gone and their control, as always, is irrelevant.
This is the only good solution.
It isn't even true that Oppressor has some sort of edge in crowd control. People saying that Thaum has 90% of their control is being generous. The endcap of Oppressor might as well not exist for all the good it's doing. The proposed changes aren't going to do anything at all about that. I rarely see anything live past the end of freeze anyway, and we'll still be able to two-shot freeze right off the bat. That, to me, is a bigger issue that how long or how easy it is to refreeze them.
EDIT: Quoted just because it seems that both Oppressor and Renegade are basically non-starters in PvE, so it's Thaum or go home until some kind of rework happens.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
OK, but why are you quoting me?
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited September 2014
At best Chilling Control needs to be changed to 20/40//60/80/100% chance to add ONE stack of Chill to targets hit by the primary strike of Sudden Storm. That's still a good feat, but not ridiculous.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited September 2014
Another, more simple solution is to make freeze break on damage, but the Oppressor Capstone Shatter event functions by stunning foes for 5 seconds when the freeze is broken by damage.
The first iteration we are looking at is after being frozen from chill you will be immune to Chill stacks for 3 seconds after the freeze would have ended (before any strength and resistance get involved). After a successful shatter strike you will be immune for 3 seconds on players and 5 seconds on critters. This means that wizards can lock down a large number of foes but cannot do it forever. It is important to note that multiple wizards will SHARE this lockout, so it cannot be subverted by stacking more wizards.
I feel that a five second immunity is a bit too much. Especially since it will affect feats like Alacrity, which reduces the Entangling Force cooldown - another major control power.
To compensate for the reduced chill stack uptime damage should be increased by moving Snap Freeze to the Oppresor tree. That would make perfect sense.
Please do not over-adjust.. so many changes! CW needs to be viable in all areas of the game, Solo daily wise, pvp and DDs.
Do not just listen to non CWs only, please hear the correct feedback.
I know there are alot of really good ones out there who are honest, Ill leave it to them, but the amount of just off the wall feedback is just too much.
Thank you Devs in advance.
YES. There are too many people in this thread who have an anti-CW agenda for whatever reason and they will happily present disingenuous arguments in support of any CW nerf of any shape or size even if - and especially if - it means nerfing CWs into the ground. If these are the people that the devs are listening to, then maybe we do need these class advocates after all to filter out this junk.
Comments
Except that while the GF is better at that, they still can't tank unless they overgear the content. You guys are just buff bots that provide a mitigation buff and damage buffs, sort of like a DC. And honestly while running the new KV can you even lifesteal or regen enough to stay alive without a DC strapped to your hip?
No! Not unless we outgear content and maybe still no... If they made GF crit immune in PvE would help us substantially. Getting life steal on a GF is harder than other classes as its a subspec stat, regen is what we normally have and taking 20% damage even when blocking kinda kills the regen effect. Not dpsing we generate little lifesteal, however fighters Recovery and the new Enforced Threat is amazing.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
nothing else?
That means that to be effective you need 2 slots, a GF and either a DC or Tempt SW. That means you are still extremely far from being effective in PvE as a tank.
Try to stay objective. What you said basically is " - fix my GF so he can fight CWs but dont nerf my CW so when Im on him I can still kill most of the other classes with ease ". The wizard's mega cc + mega dmg is problem for everyone, not just GFs.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Ya Rip often exhibits tunnel vision, "seeing" only what he wants to see at any given moment/topic
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Do not just listen to non CWs only, please hear the correct feedback.
I know there are alot of really good ones out there who are honest, Ill leave it to them, but the amount of just off the wall feedback is just too much.
Thank you Devs in advance.
I got a 17k+ CW and a 19k+ GWF. My GWF wins 90% of the fights with CWs. My CW gets killed 1v1 against well geared GWFs or GFs, pathfinder HRs and perma TRs (if I dont respec for fighting them). DC cant kill anything wellgeared alone and I have not met enough decent SWs to come to an opinion there, but to say, that CWs are a problem for everyone is wrong.
Wait for pathfinder HRs to get their leg. artefact weapon with +30% melee dmg, than you can talk about a problem for everyone.
I dont play HR, a friend of mine has HR as main and said OMG +30%, followed by manic laughter. OFC he could have missread it. He told me twice about awsome new companions and he missed the 'buff applies to companion' note.^^
+30 dmg sounds more reasonable. I hope you are right.
CW is in no danger of becoming unviable for anything PVE. They could potentially become not great again for PVP, but this change alone wouldn't do it. They'll still be a top class.
I play CW along with my HR.
You then more clearly segregate the freezing control of Oppressor and the all out damage of the Thaumaturge. If you want to lock down targets, then you give up the damage potential of the Thaumaturge tree.
Right now, CW's don't really have to chose between damage and control, since a Thaumaturge using CoI in Tab and Icy Terrain/Storm Spell (feated) can freeze stuff instantly and nearly permanent.
You nailed it friend. That would be the perfect solution : Make unbreakable freeze part of the Oppressor Capstone Feat "Shatter Strike". Also move "Chilling Control" feat from tier 2 to tier 3,so that other paragon paths can't select it,and that's it. Oppressor now has absolute control, Thauma has absolute damage and Renegade has absolute................well a jack of all trades but master of none.
1. GWFs can stun you for much longer than CW.
2. HRs cannot CC you for long, but their stuns are instant. Faster than ANY encounter of any other class. They see your arm/head/leg move slightly to cast something, press a button: interrupted, cc'ed. Don't have to mention the fact that you're dead in the next 3 seconds after you're stunned due to the ridiculous piercing damage.
You broke enough. Revert all the changes back to Mod 3.
If they start adding in those immunities, they're going to open up an entirely new can of worms.
You speculate and interpret to much, I want the GF guard fixed however until Crush mentioned it was bugged we thought it was WAI. As for CW changing my CW is only 14.8k I cannot give true comment of how effective they are at top level pvp, only pugs... So I will not ask for anything other than what the thread was made for.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I only play 2 classes at 60, I cannot comment on what I've not seen first hand. I know in matches the CWs seem to have a high kill ratio but also a pretty high death also. I know against a CW on my GF its a pain as my Guard doesn't block cc. I know on my CW I can kill people just as easy as I could in Mod 3! Not tunnel vision dude... I comment on my experience not the populous, thats why you guys are here.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
This will not change anything .
First i block i will get icy ray "cannot be blocked" my legs are rooted then comes ray of frost (and if i have no daily "no VM to at least have a chance"i am dead cuz)
i am again frozen (controlled) with Rof for 2 sec "cannot be blocked" after i am an ICE berg next cw encounter EF another 2 sec(controlled) some rof mostly for proccing Storm and assailing +creepi & repel or chill strike (1 sec stun)or another 2 sec to catch up from the long ranged push then R&R i will get icy ray again and the "counter" can start again cuz this time (endlessly controlled) is way more then 3 sec . Any way 60k hp GF dont live enugh to see the second encounter blast mostly becuse CW has its daily is up in no time.
And even if i can hit CW he have tab shild so i will do no dmg.
CW can only be killed by a GF if he have 1' full daly and lucky crits or more then 2 ppl try to kill it ofc by surprize attack .
Any way i dont have any problem with CWs in dungeons and the nerf for GF KV wast necessary this have too much effect on pve . So this (chill) nerf for PVE is not necessary too!
The real problem is you cannot escape from cw in pvp.
Only 2 class can succesfull counter CW HR with her unlimited self heal and GWF with her nice CC resist but if he try to facetank CW he will be dead in no time (only suprize attack can help with full daily ofc).
However, regarding Oppressors capstone, Shatter already occurs just as something freezes which means that when they unfreeze Shatters stun has already worn off. Make the Oppressor Capstone apply when the ice actually shatters from damage and that will cover the only things that need to be changed. Shatter being applied when things are still frozen is a waste of time. You are effectively 'double stunning' them which completely makes the stun portion of Shatter useless.
Yes, ice must break from damage. But Oppressor needs to make some kind of use from that to keep things locked down. Dropping the hammer on freeze and crowd control in general is simply going to make absolutely everyone concentrate on nothing except Wizard damage because frankly there won't be anything left except for double-oppressive-force MoF builds for control.
That is just the way it is from my perspective. Frankly, in PvP I don't care. It will completely break the PvE game for Wizards who don't want to concentrate on nothing but damage. For people who only care about damage this doesn't really do anything to them at all.
Also, people blaming the Oppressor for near perma-freeze isn't the case. It's every CW spec and most egregiously the SS/Thaum using Chilling Control. This is the problem in a nutshell. CW do not need to choose CC or damage in their feats they can simply do both at the exact same time.
It was foolish to give Sudden Storm 5 instant stacks of chill and everyone said as much. I even have a topic devoted to this very issue. More than anything else this one easily obtained feat is to blame for the problems at hand for PvE.
Even more generally, the Paragon specific feats should not be second tier feats period. They should all be 3rd tier or higher given how they are supposed to be unique to that particular tree. If you can just grab them in builds that are not intended to utilize them you end up in this exact situation.
Exactly mel, this is what virus and I have been saying even weeks before mod4 release, completely revert CW back to Mod3 because they completely broke the class with mod4
Unless they're renegades.
Jack **** is what they have. They went from the very top, if played well, to the very bottom with the TRs. There is no longer any use for a renegade in a group. Their damage is gone and their control, as always, is irrelevant.
This is the only good solution.
It isn't even true that Oppressor has some sort of edge in crowd control. People saying that Thaum has 90% of their control is being generous. The endcap of Oppressor might as well not exist for all the good it's doing. The proposed changes aren't going to do anything at all about that. I rarely see anything live past the end of freeze anyway, and we'll still be able to two-shot freeze right off the bat. That, to me, is a bigger issue that how long or how easy it is to refreeze them.
EDIT: Quoted just because it seems that both Oppressor and Renegade are basically non-starters in PvE, so it's Thaum or go home until some kind of rework happens.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I feel that a five second immunity is a bit too much. Especially since it will affect feats like Alacrity, which reduces the Entangling Force cooldown - another major control power.
To compensate for the reduced chill stack uptime damage should be increased by moving Snap Freeze to the Oppresor tree. That would make perfect sense.
Then what's the point of chill stacks if nothing actually freezes?
YES. There are too many people in this thread who have an anti-CW agenda for whatever reason and they will happily present disingenuous arguments in support of any CW nerf of any shape or size even if - and especially if - it means nerfing CWs into the ground. If these are the people that the devs are listening to, then maybe we do need these class advocates after all to filter out this junk.