Does he need to present it in such a condescending manner? NO
Oh really? Do you think I *like* repeating myself godhric? Do you think I relish saying the same stuff over and over to people who REPEATEDLY post something along the lines of:
...(insert "I have been playing this class since beta/I am a good DC player/I have been playing dozens of MMOs" opening) blahblahblah (insert "Therefore, this is how the DC class should be fixed argument") blahblahblah (insert extremely stupid tidbit that makes it obvious that the person doesn't even know what he's talking about).
Did you even bother to read the entire thread? Do you really think only dignified/honorable players can post in these forums? I'm pretty sure I pointed out at some point that some of these people, despite their apparently staggering character credentials, don't even know how Hallowed Ground works - and yet they expect everyone else to treat them seriously.
If you're gonna start flinging around the "holier-than-thou" thing you should probably take the time to check whether it was actually deserved.
Don't ramble too many things (that is beside the point btw), people get headache...
And if you had bothered to read the rest of the thread you'd know that comment was aimed at Clericalist, not you.
For PvE virtuous, it is kinda flawed in that it restrict encounter usage. You can never slot good defensive spells like AS/HW into offensive rotation, or Divine Glow/Sunburst to healing/defensive rotation without interfering Cycle of Change. It just isnt a maximized setting and too much restriction on the tree.. add that with Daunting Light feat which are good to have and HAVE to be used (which is divinity exhaustive btw), otherwise it is wasted.
Virtuous was designed for the attacking cleric and it works because attacking allows for maximum AP/DP generation. The design of Virtuous allows it to complement the attacking DC essentially by powering up its heals - this was done since DCs of all stripes are ultimately leaders and yet as far as this DC-type is concerned, the less healing powers slotted, the better (hence the Soothing Light focus, since you can't exactly unslot Soothing Light). People who have actually played as a Virtuous DC (and who play it as advertised) will notice that Virtuous is an especially capable burst healer. This is what refracted0dawn is reporting (think significantly buffed up Soothing Light crits + constant Healer's Lore due to Disciple of Divine Lore + more DP/AP thanks to slotting more offense powers, among other things like +power feats and the new Cycle of Change, and potentially higher power/crit/rec simply because of the playstyle).
Numbers-wise atm Virtuous essentially just gives +10% more damage, better burst healing and, as a result of its playstyle, faster dailies (attacking powers give more AP/DP esp. with Holy Fervor). It was a lot better in mod 2 numbers-wise (+20% encounter power damage). Kaelac reported a modest damage increase for all DCs between mod 2 and mod 3 which may explain the Cycle of Change change, but overall Virtuous' damage was nerfed.
As for restricting encounter usage, that's only if you take Nimbus of Light. One thing to bear in mind is that any time you can afford to use Daunting Light you don't need the 10% mitigation debuff.
HRs/TRs/CWs are only "glass cannons" in the sense that if they decide to stand still and not do anything while you try to kill them then they can be quite squishy.
As far as actual combat is concerned though any of these classes can be just as (or even more) difficult to kill than a GF/GWF. For DCs, its the other way round. We look good defense-wise on paper but we are squishy in PvP. At this point it should be obvious that the difference comes down to class mechanics/powers/feats.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
The Virtuous/Righteous DO is my 12th character. He became my Main and is the only one that did all the quests more or less in order. I also bought cheap blue gear for him from the AH every 10 levels or so, and with PuGs in PVP he got 23 kills a few times before he hit level 60. I much prefer playing PvP in the wee small hours, as there are more Europeans playing, who tend to be modestly geared and less skilled. Most of the Big Spenders tend to be from the US. And now they can get all the Dread Rind and Sharandar boons for 10,000 Zen.
There seems to be a quite short-tempered dispute going on, but surely those of us who played AD&D since First Edition and played basic rule red box D&D before that can agree that the DC in Neverwinter both does dreadful damage and also poor healing?
A potion does 8000 hp healing instantly. What does Bastion of Health do? And that is supposed to be the strongest Area healing spell. The only pure healing spells are Soothing Light, Healing Word and Bastion of Health, and they are pretty poor, except for a 3-stack Cycle of Change Soothing Light as a single Target heal on a very badly wounded character with a Virtuous/Righteous build. All the other spells are buffs or debuffs or Regeneration and buffs, rather than Healing per se.
It always annoys me when people call my Dwarf "Healer". He's a Battle Berserker War Priest. He buffs and debuffs in ways they cannot even imagine.
I only started playing in February, but a lot of open beta testers seem to think all the classes were well-balanced at that point; but various nerfs have some in and screwed everything up. I do know that my second Halfling TR could tank pretty well until Mod 3. She never used anything even approaching Perma-Stealth and I stopped actively campaigning with her at about level 25-30 and she became a leadership mule. She only used Stealth to get things like guaranteed Crits. Then, in PvP, we see TRs with perma-Stealth but hardly any damage, GWFs with broken Roar and perma-prones from 30 feet away with a 6 foot Great Sword, CWs not just freezing and paralysing but now disintegrating you in seconds.
So Mod 5 is meant to re-balance the TR and DC. I don't know whether to look forward to it or cry.
~
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arandompandaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 107Arc User
edited September 2014
I suspect that the DC will have significant, strong competition eventually for even that role (party-wide buffer/debuffer) when new classes get introduced.
...but surely those of us who played AD&D since First Edition and played basic rule red box D&D before that can agree that the DC in Neverwinter both does dreadful damage and also poor healing?
It wasn't always that way, but atm yes. Though, as a I pointed out back in the first page of this thread or so, healing done is a poor indication of how well a DC is doing. The simple fact is that if you're doing so well that you're spamming mitigation left and right then you'll obviously be doing less healing. Meanwhile warlocks (and everyone else with good burst damage and high lifesteal) is constantly overhealing.
Which is why I brought up, back in the page 2 or so, that part of what people here are essentially fighting for is a better dungeon/skirmish meter function. Perhaps one that measures overall party efficiency and compares it to the rate at which other parties are clearing the same dungoen/skirmish.
Agree the digital DC doesn't resemble the tabletop DC as much as one might expect, old or new.
Speaking only for myself I wish Kaelac had not introduced the term "leader" for DC and which the Neverwinter wiki duly included (almost certainly picked up from him). A better descriptor of the DC role is "multiplier". We make all the other classes better (but ourselves better at whatever it is - the least) from any distance (close or far).
I suspect that the DC will have significant, strong competition eventually for even that role (party-wide buffer/debuffer) when new classes get introduced. Especially strong contenders for party buff/mitigator role imo will be Bard (party-wide buffs/debuffs from any range making them a "leader" too per Kaelac's definition) and Paladin (GWF with various DC-ish debuff multiplier abilities and one or more CC tacked on - which would make them stand out from GWF and possibly more valuable than GWFs for dungeon runs over the long haul).
Case in point.
So, the DC apparently doesn't resemble the tabletop DC? How about Goldmoon from the Dragonlance series? Or any of other the usually evil cleric NPCs who prefer to fight at range and use magic?
And for someone who casually throws around words like "tabletop" and "old and new", you apparently have no idea that it was your very own WotSC who came up with "character roles" in 4th edition D&D: controller, defender, leader and striker. Oh and as much as I respect Kaelac, the last time I checked he was not WotSC.
Mitigation is essentially passive healing, and healing is what defines the D&D cleric as a leader class. So the other leader classes will simply have less access to mitigation.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
This is a bit depressing as a cleric, I know we sitll have our buffs and debuffs but still feels so dishearting
What feels dishartening is that debuffing is the last thing clerics can do. New dungeons have npcs not doing any sustained damage. And when you're not in red you don't take any serious damage. The class isn't broken it's just the game being too easy to require any kind of healing. Clerics are just fine, they buff and heal, but npcs don't hit hard enough to make the "healing" part required. New content with higher GS requirement should wipe teams having no (or a terrible) healer. The truth is it doesn't happen. Just dodge red zones and you'll be perfectly fine. NPCs might have a range or a melee attack for the lulz but it's nowhere near a threat. Man I miss the times when an unprepared team could die to an at-will from a few npcs.
Also, high damage and high lifesteal values don't help either.
But can the Warlock buff like a DC and mitigate damage?
I'm sorry, but my fellow DCs need to see the light; we are not healers anymore, that ship done gone sailed, we are buffers, debuffers and damage mitigators that can do decent healing., and in that respect no class can compete.
When I am on my GF I'd take a DC all day because between the DC and my KV nobody has to touch a health pot in CN except for maybe me during Xivros and Draco fights. SWs can't give my GF a 136k crit hit with Anvil and he's not a Conqueror.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
0
clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
But can the Warlock buff like a DC and mitigate damage?
I'm sorry, but my fellow DCs need to see the light; we are not healers anymore, that ship done gone sailed, we are buffers, debuffers and damage mitigators that can do decent healing., and in that respect no class can compete.
When I am on my GF I'd take a DC all day because between the DC and my KV nobody has to touch a health pot in CN except for maybe me during Xivros and Draco fights. SWs can't give my GF a 136k crit hit with Anvil and he's not a Conqueror.
If that is the case then at least Cryptic should be made aware of this. They should stop making armour sets that mostly provide healing bonuses and they should not have so many feats that are healing oriented. Also if the warlock can get both monster healing and high dps, then give the cleric something similar where it can boost dps and buff/debuff with higher stats, the more powerful a cleric is the more buff/debuff it provides and also the more dps it provides for itself.
Regarding the x3 healing with the same gear, I have have counted 4 Shores of Tuern where the warlocks were getting around 600k healing vs 150k for me and they were all lower gears than me. I also did a TOS of a spider where he did x5 healing, and that was a 10k gs vs my 16k gs (ok, I was mostly doing buffing, but still that is a huge difference). It seems that its way beyond x3 healing that they can achieve with the same gs.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited September 2014
Either some of the meta needs to change or the DC needs a rework, since I dont think they will rework meta now, the DC really needs the rework.
I dont know what all the argumants are about really.. man its getting to be a long thread.
Simply put, with the addition of all the range style classes, small aoe hot spots of damage, buffing, healing need to go, they need to be moved to party wide (within a certain game meters.)
Choosing AC needs to have a new boost, defense is ridicoulos stat in this new meta, and its not even half of what deflect is at the moment, since I doubt they will boost defense, then they need to give AC something else, how about feated part wide exultation and also a increase to it?
Change some of the animation speeds.. realy BoB is stupid slow, decrease it 100% and just put a small cooldown between casts, that is much more feasible.
Shield and Divine Glow need to be changed to part wide buffs. Exult, feat for party wide. Increase animation speeds on certain slow skils, rework our paragon and heroic feats.. (STOP stacking small incremental healing buffs and give some significant return) and then change the paragon lines into true dps/healing/buffing(survive) lines and give us a reason to cap lines.
This will fix the dc into what it needs to be for this meta.
There has to be a way not to make the DC overpowering , but allow it to compete in the same context to do solo work with.. I mean I never felt disadvantaged until Mod 3, so I know its possible.
Divinely Channeled Exaltation needs a much longer period of damage immunity and also CC immunity added. What is it now? 2 seconds? Should be 6 seconds.
Invigorated Healing should buff healing more strongly. It is not exactly overwhelming at the moment.
And all the Feat Trees really need to be sorted out.
In one patch, they drastically reduced the amount of healing temp hp you get from Ancient Warding, making Anointed Army much less attractive against Hallowed Ground with Moon Touched.
My AC's Ioun Stone has purple gear, Rank 8 runes and enchants and the character has Grim Faithful gear and Silvery enchants. In the MotH skirmish and with various Feats proccing she gets well over 4000 Recovery and >45% Recharge and about 58% AP Gain.
That may be well into the diminishing returns, but in PvP with no companions and just the Dragonborn artifact, Lantern of Revelation and Waters of Elah'zad, she has only 3.2k Recovery. But 4.3k Power and 2.7k Defence. But her ArPen is <400, her Crit and Regeneration <800.
DC Epic armour should have some sort of Regeneration on it. Much better than the paltry Deflect.
Let's just patiently wait until they finally decide to give us more Paragon options.
For the more "combat" oriented preferences, the Templar and the Warpriest Paragon options would fit better... as these paragon options are often considered "classic cleric" - ie. the general imagery of the "heavily armored, battle priests wielding mace weapons, shield, and divine spells" befalling to these paragons, and not the ones we have, which are considered more of spellcaster-types.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If that is the case then at least Cryptic should be made aware of this. They should stop making armour sets that mostly provide healing bonuses and they should not have so many feats that are healing oriented. Also if the warlock can get both monster healing and high dps, then give the cleric something similar where it can boost dps and buff/debuff with higher stats, the more powerful a cleric is the more buff/debuff it provides and also the more dps it provides for itself.
Regarding the x3 healing with the same gear, I have have counted 4 Shores of Tuern where the warlocks were getting around 600k healing vs 150k for me and they were all lower gears than me. I also did a TOS of a spider where he did x5 healing, and that was a 10k gs vs my 16k gs (ok, I was mostly doing buffing, but still that is a huge difference). It seems that its way beyond x3 healing that they can achieve with the same gs.
I agree that the DC - and TR - need a significant rework a la Mod 4 GFs. A more battle-centric path needs to be added and Mod 4 proved that Cryptic will not be averse to completely overhauling paths. I'd give up on asking for gear in pursuit of changes as GFs have been asking for changes in that area for months, but nothing, so any changes to the way a DC plays will be via heavy path tweaks. One simple tweak would be allowing a % of recovery to be converted to arpen, making a more DPS-orientated DC possible. The GWF has two feats that convert one stat into another.
The GF has set a precedent whereby a key stat - DR - can be converted into a massive party benefit - 75% of DR into party DPS via Into the Fray - so I agree, allowing the DC to use one of its major stats to enhance buffs seems reasonable.
DPS - Healing - Buff are the three paths I think Mod 5 DCs should aim at.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I agree that the DC - and TR - need a significant rework a la Mod 4 GFs. A more battle-centric path needs to be added and Mod 4 proved that Cryptic will not be averse to completely overhauling paths. I'd give up on asking for gear in pursuit of changes as GFs have been asking for changes in that area for months, but nothing, so any changes to the way a DC plays will be via heavy path tweaks. One simple tweak would be allowing a % of recovery to be converted to arpen, making a more DPS-orientated DC possible. The GWF has two feats that convert one stat into another.
The GF has set a precedent whereby a key stat - DR - can be converted into a massive party benefit - 75% of DR into party DPS via Into the Fray - so I agree, allowing the DC to use one of its major stats to enhance buffs seems reasonable.
DPS - Healing - Buff are the three paths I think Mod 5 DCs should aim at.
Yep, thought there would be some radical changes. Looking forward to it.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Because Clerics have been consistently FUBAR'd over and over.
But it is true that people who think DC = Healer are wrong. It's a myth. That is just one specialist build you can have. But the Warlock Paragon paths are so much better put together than the DC Paragons.
Also, they out-heal us because a Warlock's healing is based on dps and Life Steal. It relies on hitting many mobs with Infernal, Dark Magicks, rather than Divine Power granted by a deity of Light.
And because the Temptation Paragon feats are specifically designed to boost healing from Life Steal.
And Warlocks are not subjected to Healing Depression and Righteousness. And my Dragonborn blood gives her a bonus to incoming healing from all sources to boot!
Field Medic is also based on how many of YOUR hp have been healed, not just other people's. That is why you can see a GWF near the top, as they have been chugging potions and using Restoring Strike, and Feats that heal when they activate Unstoppable.
Field Medic should only count healing you have given to party members.
And they should have some other measures such as Champion Buffer, Champion Debuffer etc.
My Warlock often gets an ENORMOUS stack of temporary hp, even when she is barely damaged. It can be a quarter to a third of her health bar.
I have four DCs, three level 60 and one level 57.
I have one Warlock, level 27. The difference is dazzlingly noticeable.
So what happened to this rationale that if Clerics got full healing from their powers, they would be immortal, unkillable and never need to use a potion, and never need to use Stones of Life, much less buy them?
What about the Warlock?
And, really, since when in AD&D has the by far, far, far most powerful healing come from a vial of alchemical concoction, while Priests have been so weak? AND have lousy damage?
Seriously, in the last 10 days or so I have taken my Warlock from the beach to PE to Cragmire Crypt and Storm the Keep, via PvP and all the daily skirmishes, dungeons, main quests and daily Foundry quests, and I have not had to drink a single healing Potion yet (except the Battle Healing potions in PvP).
I am not joking.
And she is not even a Temptation build!
And my 13k GS Grim Faithful Tiefling, high INT, high CHA, high Power and Recovery Healer Build Anointed Champion is NEVER going to get ANY Triple Kills in PvP, never mind 40. She has enough trouble getting a Single Kill, much less a Double.
Even my 15k GS Profound Righteous/Virtuous Dwarven Battle Berserker War Priest Divine Oracle has been stuck on 9 Triple Kills for ages.
Seriously, developers, as much as i like the Warlock, the Cleric needs some serious rethinking.
~
I totally agree with refracted0dawn.
When I realized the Scourge Warlocks were actually doing more healing than me after completing Epic quests on more than 1 occasion I started questioning myself why the heck I bothered to pick a DC when the SWs and other classes are capable of healing than me.
abishai3705 is correct. One major problem is that it is difficult to track a DC's actual contribution to overall damage done by the party. Going by the posts in this thread it's clear that there even other DC players who are unaware of just how powerful DC buffs are. [...] It definitely doesn't help that there's no meter for mitigation, either. Mitigation allows people to survive potential 1-hit-KOs. It allows strikers to play more freely or even aggressively. It is a survivability multiplier far, FAR more effective than lifesteal.
This is exactly how I feel presently. Before starting playing Neverwinter, I was healing on a restoration Shaman in WoW and this was exactly the same problem. The actual contribution to the raid was not as explicit as other healer classes. In the end, the devs went a long way to address this issue, because it's just so depressing for the users playing these classes.
I think the little board that pop ups at the end of dungeons and skirmishes is hurting our class in the long run, because it suggests to the average knowledgeable player that we are useless compared to other classes since our dps is low, and our healing on the meter is not exceptional since most of our contribution to overall dps and healing are hidden.
Just remove the pop up window at the end of dungeons and skirmishes, and it will save a lot of grumble imo. If you can't put together a good dps/healing meter that shows the real picture, better to remove it completely.
Comments
...(insert "I have been playing this class since beta/I am a good DC player/I have been playing dozens of MMOs" opening) blahblahblah (insert "Therefore, this is how the DC class should be fixed argument") blahblahblah (insert extremely stupid tidbit that makes it obvious that the person doesn't even know what he's talking about).
Did you even bother to read the entire thread? Do you really think only dignified/honorable players can post in these forums? I'm pretty sure I pointed out at some point that some of these people, despite their apparently staggering character credentials, don't even know how Hallowed Ground works - and yet they expect everyone else to treat them seriously.
If you're gonna start flinging around the "holier-than-thou" thing you should probably take the time to check whether it was actually deserved.
And if you had bothered to read the rest of the thread you'd know that comment was aimed at Clericalist, not you.
Virtuous was designed for the attacking cleric and it works because attacking allows for maximum AP/DP generation. The design of Virtuous allows it to complement the attacking DC essentially by powering up its heals - this was done since DCs of all stripes are ultimately leaders and yet as far as this DC-type is concerned, the less healing powers slotted, the better (hence the Soothing Light focus, since you can't exactly unslot Soothing Light). People who have actually played as a Virtuous DC (and who play it as advertised) will notice that Virtuous is an especially capable burst healer. This is what refracted0dawn is reporting (think significantly buffed up Soothing Light crits + constant Healer's Lore due to Disciple of Divine Lore + more DP/AP thanks to slotting more offense powers, among other things like +power feats and the new Cycle of Change, and potentially higher power/crit/rec simply because of the playstyle).
Numbers-wise atm Virtuous essentially just gives +10% more damage, better burst healing and, as a result of its playstyle, faster dailies (attacking powers give more AP/DP esp. with Holy Fervor). It was a lot better in mod 2 numbers-wise (+20% encounter power damage). Kaelac reported a modest damage increase for all DCs between mod 2 and mod 3 which may explain the Cycle of Change change, but overall Virtuous' damage was nerfed.
As for restricting encounter usage, that's only if you take Nimbus of Light. One thing to bear in mind is that any time you can afford to use Daunting Light you don't need the 10% mitigation debuff.
HRs/TRs/CWs are only "glass cannons" in the sense that if they decide to stand still and not do anything while you try to kill them then they can be quite squishy.
As far as actual combat is concerned though any of these classes can be just as (or even more) difficult to kill than a GF/GWF. For DCs, its the other way round. We look good defense-wise on paper but we are squishy in PvP. At this point it should be obvious that the difference comes down to class mechanics/powers/feats.
There seems to be a quite short-tempered dispute going on, but surely those of us who played AD&D since First Edition and played basic rule red box D&D before that can agree that the DC in Neverwinter both does dreadful damage and also poor healing?
A potion does 8000 hp healing instantly. What does Bastion of Health do? And that is supposed to be the strongest Area healing spell. The only pure healing spells are Soothing Light, Healing Word and Bastion of Health, and they are pretty poor, except for a 3-stack Cycle of Change Soothing Light as a single Target heal on a very badly wounded character with a Virtuous/Righteous build. All the other spells are buffs or debuffs or Regeneration and buffs, rather than Healing per se.
It always annoys me when people call my Dwarf "Healer". He's a Battle Berserker War Priest. He buffs and debuffs in ways they cannot even imagine.
I only started playing in February, but a lot of open beta testers seem to think all the classes were well-balanced at that point; but various nerfs have some in and screwed everything up. I do know that my second Halfling TR could tank pretty well until Mod 3. She never used anything even approaching Perma-Stealth and I stopped actively campaigning with her at about level 25-30 and she became a leadership mule. She only used Stealth to get things like guaranteed Crits. Then, in PvP, we see TRs with perma-Stealth but hardly any damage, GWFs with broken Roar and perma-prones from 30 feet away with a 6 foot Great Sword, CWs not just freezing and paralysing but now disintegrating you in seconds.
So Mod 5 is meant to re-balance the TR and DC. I don't know whether to look forward to it or cry.
~
Which is why I brought up, back in the page 2 or so, that part of what people here are essentially fighting for is a better dungeon/skirmish meter function. Perhaps one that measures overall party efficiency and compares it to the rate at which other parties are clearing the same dungoen/skirmish.
Case in point.
So, the DC apparently doesn't resemble the tabletop DC? How about Goldmoon from the Dragonlance series? Or any of other the usually evil cleric NPCs who prefer to fight at range and use magic?
And for someone who casually throws around words like "tabletop" and "old and new", you apparently have no idea that it was your very own WotSC who came up with "character roles" in 4th edition D&D: controller, defender, leader and striker. Oh and as much as I respect Kaelac, the last time I checked he was not WotSC.
Mitigation is essentially passive healing, and healing is what defines the D&D cleric as a leader class. So the other leader classes will simply have less access to mitigation.
What feels dishartening is that debuffing is the last thing clerics can do. New dungeons have npcs not doing any sustained damage. And when you're not in red you don't take any serious damage. The class isn't broken it's just the game being too easy to require any kind of healing. Clerics are just fine, they buff and heal, but npcs don't hit hard enough to make the "healing" part required. New content with higher GS requirement should wipe teams having no (or a terrible) healer. The truth is it doesn't happen. Just dodge red zones and you'll be perfectly fine. NPCs might have a range or a melee attack for the lulz but it's nowhere near a threat. Man I miss the times when an unprepared team could die to an at-will from a few npcs.
Also, high damage and high lifesteal values don't help either.
I'm sorry, but my fellow DCs need to see the light; we are not healers anymore, that ship done gone sailed, we are buffers, debuffers and damage mitigators that can do decent healing., and in that respect no class can compete.
When I am on my GF I'd take a DC all day because between the DC and my KV nobody has to touch a health pot in CN except for maybe me during Xivros and Draco fights. SWs can't give my GF a 136k crit hit with Anvil and he's not a Conqueror.
If that is the case then at least Cryptic should be made aware of this. They should stop making armour sets that mostly provide healing bonuses and they should not have so many feats that are healing oriented. Also if the warlock can get both monster healing and high dps, then give the cleric something similar where it can boost dps and buff/debuff with higher stats, the more powerful a cleric is the more buff/debuff it provides and also the more dps it provides for itself.
Regarding the x3 healing with the same gear, I have have counted 4 Shores of Tuern where the warlocks were getting around 600k healing vs 150k for me and they were all lower gears than me. I also did a TOS of a spider where he did x5 healing, and that was a 10k gs vs my 16k gs (ok, I was mostly doing buffing, but still that is a huge difference). It seems that its way beyond x3 healing that they can achieve with the same gs.
I dont know what all the argumants are about really.. man its getting to be a long thread.
Simply put, with the addition of all the range style classes, small aoe hot spots of damage, buffing, healing need to go, they need to be moved to party wide (within a certain game meters.)
Choosing AC needs to have a new boost, defense is ridicoulos stat in this new meta, and its not even half of what deflect is at the moment, since I doubt they will boost defense, then they need to give AC something else, how about feated part wide exultation and also a increase to it?
Change some of the animation speeds.. realy BoB is stupid slow, decrease it 100% and just put a small cooldown between casts, that is much more feasible.
Shield and Divine Glow need to be changed to part wide buffs. Exult, feat for party wide. Increase animation speeds on certain slow skils, rework our paragon and heroic feats.. (STOP stacking small incremental healing buffs and give some significant return) and then change the paragon lines into true dps/healing/buffing(survive) lines and give us a reason to cap lines.
This will fix the dc into what it needs to be for this meta.
There has to be a way not to make the DC overpowering , but allow it to compete in the same context to do solo work with.. I mean I never felt disadvantaged until Mod 3, so I know its possible.
Divinely Channeled Exaltation needs a much longer period of damage immunity and also CC immunity added. What is it now? 2 seconds? Should be 6 seconds.
Invigorated Healing should buff healing more strongly. It is not exactly overwhelming at the moment.
And all the Feat Trees really need to be sorted out.
In one patch, they drastically reduced the amount of healing temp hp you get from Ancient Warding, making Anointed Army much less attractive against Hallowed Ground with Moon Touched.
My AC's Ioun Stone has purple gear, Rank 8 runes and enchants and the character has Grim Faithful gear and Silvery enchants. In the MotH skirmish and with various Feats proccing she gets well over 4000 Recovery and >45% Recharge and about 58% AP Gain.
That may be well into the diminishing returns, but in PvP with no companions and just the Dragonborn artifact, Lantern of Revelation and Waters of Elah'zad, she has only 3.2k Recovery. But 4.3k Power and 2.7k Defence. But her ArPen is <400, her Crit and Regeneration <800.
DC Epic armour should have some sort of Regeneration on it. Much better than the paltry Deflect.
For the more "combat" oriented preferences, the Templar and the Warpriest Paragon options would fit better... as these paragon options are often considered "classic cleric" - ie. the general imagery of the "heavily armored, battle priests wielding mace weapons, shield, and divine spells" befalling to these paragons, and not the ones we have, which are considered more of spellcaster-types.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I agree that the DC - and TR - need a significant rework a la Mod 4 GFs. A more battle-centric path needs to be added and Mod 4 proved that Cryptic will not be averse to completely overhauling paths. I'd give up on asking for gear in pursuit of changes as GFs have been asking for changes in that area for months, but nothing, so any changes to the way a DC plays will be via heavy path tweaks. One simple tweak would be allowing a % of recovery to be converted to arpen, making a more DPS-orientated DC possible. The GWF has two feats that convert one stat into another.
The GF has set a precedent whereby a key stat - DR - can be converted into a massive party benefit - 75% of DR into party DPS via Into the Fray - so I agree, allowing the DC to use one of its major stats to enhance buffs seems reasonable.
DPS - Healing - Buff are the three paths I think Mod 5 DCs should aim at.
I'm just trying to get the word out: your wish has already been granted for both Clerics and Rogues - we should know what the changes are in about two weeks or so:
https://twitter.com/CrypticGMC/status/509401780803731456
Yep, thought there would be some radical changes. Looking forward to it.
I totally agree with refracted0dawn.
When I realized the Scourge Warlocks were actually doing more healing than me after completing Epic quests on more than 1 occasion I started questioning myself why the heck I bothered to pick a DC when the SWs and other classes are capable of healing than me.
That's one more dejected DC in the list.
This is exactly how I feel presently. Before starting playing Neverwinter, I was healing on a restoration Shaman in WoW and this was exactly the same problem. The actual contribution to the raid was not as explicit as other healer classes. In the end, the devs went a long way to address this issue, because it's just so depressing for the users playing these classes.
I think the little board that pop ups at the end of dungeons and skirmishes is hurting our class in the long run, because it suggests to the average knowledgeable player that we are useless compared to other classes since our dps is low, and our healing on the meter is not exceptional since most of our contribution to overall dps and healing are hidden.
Just remove the pop up window at the end of dungeons and skirmishes, and it will save a lot of grumble imo. If you can't put together a good dps/healing meter that shows the real picture, better to remove it completely.