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How long will Neverwinter be able to use the D&D title if....
demonmonger
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
Ask yourself one question.
Why did you join neverwinter online?
Most of us joined this game because we have long been fans of D&D.
http://community.wizards.com/forums/103451 - class handbook
You can read all about the skills of D&D if you do not know how they are supposed to be.
We have had nerf after nerf after modification after nerf of all our encounters and at wills.
The question again... How long will Neverwinter be able to use the D&D title without following the D&D rules?
How long will wizards of the coast allow their name to be used in conjuction to a game that is not following the basic rules.
Neverwinter might as well be using pokeballs and pokemon and calling itself D&D4e.
Too many people are fed up with the games current direction.
They return to check out the new mods and vanish again in less than 14 days.
Hope brings them back...
Many players here want to just run through the game and gain max power then pvp against underpowered people all day to feed their ego.
The real D&D players here know that we used to sit all day with our dice and pencils playing the game we loved and we did not rush things like these MMO kids want to do. The thing that makes D&D enjoyable is seeing how players find ways to solve problems and defeat monsters with their creative power. However, the players here instead of using their creative abilities, come cry on forums that someone is overpowered. Instead of using their minds to solve issues they use their salty virtual tears. The devs have a flask under the eyes of all players it seems, and each time a player fills up their flask with tears a nerf is bound to happen.
How about let D&D remain D&D?
Let the nerf puppies move on and find other games (like they always do)
I see the nerf puppies as nothing more than a plague of locusts that fly down on as many games as they can, destroying the wonderful crop of a game we have, then flying off to ruin another game somewhere.
What do you think?
Neverwinter is called D&D let it be D&D.
Demonmonger
Why did you join neverwinter online?
Most of us joined this game because we have long been fans of D&D.
http://community.wizards.com/forums/103451 - class handbook
You can read all about the skills of D&D if you do not know how they are supposed to be.
We have had nerf after nerf after modification after nerf of all our encounters and at wills.
The question again... How long will Neverwinter be able to use the D&D title without following the D&D rules?
How long will wizards of the coast allow their name to be used in conjuction to a game that is not following the basic rules.
Neverwinter might as well be using pokeballs and pokemon and calling itself D&D4e.
Too many people are fed up with the games current direction.
They return to check out the new mods and vanish again in less than 14 days.
Hope brings them back...
Many players here want to just run through the game and gain max power then pvp against underpowered people all day to feed their ego.
The real D&D players here know that we used to sit all day with our dice and pencils playing the game we loved and we did not rush things like these MMO kids want to do. The thing that makes D&D enjoyable is seeing how players find ways to solve problems and defeat monsters with their creative power. However, the players here instead of using their creative abilities, come cry on forums that someone is overpowered. Instead of using their minds to solve issues they use their salty virtual tears. The devs have a flask under the eyes of all players it seems, and each time a player fills up their flask with tears a nerf is bound to happen.
How about let D&D remain D&D?
Let the nerf puppies move on and find other games (like they always do)
I see the nerf puppies as nothing more than a plague of locusts that fly down on as many games as they can, destroying the wonderful crop of a game we have, then flying off to ruin another game somewhere.
What do you think?
Neverwinter is called D&D let it be D&D.
Demonmonger
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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You think this is a joke?
It's coming, folks... get ready.
.
.
.
Okay maybe I am kidding a little bit.
This is MMO.
Badly balanced MMO - Casually balanced for casual player that what to press just 3 buttons - kill 3/3 and keep to drink their milk.
Where all that is matters is how big your GS against his/her.
to get it you spent zen.
I wish I could see more stuff where I had to make a whole build where everything mattered to shine at the end. Like it was in Neverwinter. Neverwinter Nights. I wish I could see more close to source skills and builds instead of - you use it too much if you use it again in 10 seconds effect will be halfed.
Idea behind making Neverwinter MMO was great. And it seemed very nice - both in balance for free stuff/ money and class balance at beta. I dropped this game after beta went live. Came back for HR. Now I have nice challanging HR in mod 3 and joke of 3 buttons in mod 4.
Take this example, you have two 12k gs players and a 16k gs person. One 12k gs player significantly plays better than the 16k gs players and can beat him 1 on one. The other one can't. Does that mean that it's the losing 12k gs person's fault for losing? No, because he/she is at a significant gear disadvantage even with a similar or slightly better skill level. With imbalances the same situation happens. Classes with imbalances will beat players with the same skill and gear level. Yes it's possible to counter imbalances. But some imbalances require more skill to counter to even the ground and some imbalances are far to prevalent.
Are you kidding me? You think in a game where each class has a tonne of variables a bugs that some won't naturally have an advantage over others? Also what do you mean balancing will never happen. They've been doing tonnes of balancing changes. Perfect balance will never happen though. As you say that only baddies ask for balance, you can say that only no skillers that relied on broken things cry about nerfs. People cried when the mc artifact was fixed for example. Tonnes of competitive games balance, and they don't do it for the hell of it. It's just over those other games they actually have better competitive systems than the basic flawed system here.
Another thing for other repliers, true class balance in a D&D game is impossible because classes were designed to let them use each one's unique ability, cooperate together, and complete the goal. If you try to make all classes nearly the same, you are destroying the nature of D&D class diversity.
D&D is about cooperative gameplay, NOT competitive (aka PvP), and the fact that technically ALL player classes are overpowered is a main element of the game design - an Ork NPC enemy with only levels in the 'Monster' class might be a pushover, but once it is a multiclassed Monster/Fighter, and thus has access to Fighter abilities and feats, it turns into a miniboss, but it is still balanced out by being mainly a 'Monster'.
The fact that NW has PvP is basically just to dodge the inevitable whining of PvP Enthusiasts that want to PvP in a game never designed for it.
I totally agree....PVP ( which is the life-spring of all the whining for nerfs ) needs to go off into their little sandbox and beat one another up
all ...by...themselves
This game is more D&D than MMO because WotC has pretty tight control over the D&D content. The D&D aspect is what drew me to the game - nothing else. I tried WoW (and others) and hated it very much. It is really more complicated than this, but I currently don't feel the need to engage in detailed analysis.
True D&D is NOT balanced across classes. It relies on a TEAM of people using their specific skills to complete adventures. Anyone that played the PnP version back in the old days can attest to the absolute need for a group - solo attempts were scary undertakings that few could survive.
It is the PvPers with their unrelenting complaining that ultimately seem to have been pushing this game away from a true D&D feel. Sad really, but I enjoy what is still here the best I can.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
+1 to that. It actually wouldn't even be all that hard to do within the current game's framework. Just set a flag upon character creation that designates that character as PVP-only or PVE-only. If you PVP, then you don't get to PVE, and vice-versa. You could even have the encounters and abilities work differently for PVP-flagged characters than for PVE-flagged characters, so for example, TRs could have awesome single target burst damage in PVE, but then in PVP, that could be toned down in the name of "balance" or whatever.
Everything for a d&d expirience is f2p in this game, every content.
Its not te fault of the devs that you lack the creativity to make it happen.
Do you complain to WotC and their PH1 release that they didnt packed a full ready group of players in their book?
U see how absurd that complain would be.
Every dungeon in this game is doable with every composition of races and classes. If you want true D&D feeling, make it happen. There are dozens of great locations to actually do creative roleplaying.
I don't disagree with your post, but can we all get past the "us versus them" mentality when it comes to PvPers and PvErs? It creates needless drama and isn't even relevant.
The thing that most people seem to forget is that PvPers are not developing the game. They aren't doing the coding. They don't decide what content or changes are added and made. I have played plenty of games where there has been massive outcry from the PvP community about one thing or another and the devs have said, "Nope" because they understood the impact and had a strong vision.
Also, believe it or not, the "PvP community" is not fully represented by those that you see on the forums in the same way that the PvE community is not. Judging the size of the iceberg by what you see above the surface is idiotic. I don't assume that the PvE community is a bunch of whiney carebears that simply want to make their monotonous grinding of the same endgame content day in and day out a little easier to faceroll.
The main thing is this is NOT DND. if you want to play DND go get together with some friends and roll some dice. This is a computer game set in a DND setting. Nothing in the game is even remotely close to actual dice chucking and role playing. from the website:
Neverwinter is a free-to-play, action MMORPG based on the acclaimed Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game
Notice that they do not state that it is DND. It is an action MMORPG. they dont even use the DND Title like the OP states.
This game incorporates the (probably) biggest setting in DND and uses the history of that to provide and entertaining game to play. If this game was exactly the same except set in the WOW world would you be complaining that people are wrecking your DND game? No you would be either enjoying the game for what it is or not playing.
Well said.
I created foundry missions and have my ways of bringing my familiar d&d experience to the game. You assume too much about me while you know very little if not next to nothing.
Enough said...
(Laughs) this is not about balance it's more of a learn to play issue. Speak to me about the importance of balance when you understand the difference between thw two.
There is no way that this game will ever be balanced. You can scream balance until you are blue in the face but nothing will change. For every skill that gets nerfed out, another skill becomes more viable and over powered according to the people who cry.
+1 you understand the meaning of this post.
It is more of a D&D players vs Random MMO players that have no clue what a d20 and thaco is.
I really cant understand what you are trying to saying... basically just because of nerfs in a attempt to balance the game you call this game has no dnd feeling?? Is it a joke or a way to hide your complaints about your class being nerfed?
Let him who has eyes to see... see..
I am not complaining about nerfs to my class.
I am asking that we remember what D&D is before it is forgotten.
I am reminding certain people to follow the yellow brick road.
There is no joke here.
1)IF
you do not understand the post = true
THEN
msgbox32 "this post is not for you"
END IF
2)goto 1
I think you need to remember what D&D is.
I think you also need to remember what a PC port is.
Heres some help for you:
D&D is a pen and paper, turn based, group based (you can't play it alone) game.
Neverwinter is an Action Combat MMO presented on a PC platform controlled with either a Keyboard and Mouse, or a Game Controller, that is BASED on the Forgotten Realms D&D Pen and Paper Game.
If you believe that these two things are completely interchangeable and that no modifications should have to be made for it to work on both PnP platform and PC platform than you sir are part of the problem.
I don't understand what you people actually want.... Do you want the game to go text based and operate like a turn based RPG? Because that is the only way you could apply some of the PnP rules to this game.
Its a COMPROMISE... Deal with it or go PnP by yourself.
ORRRRR!!! Use some of that imagination you guys are always bragging about, and make the best of it.
Maybe that's because the devs keep making huge changes that affect both pvp and pve constantly tipping the scales. Other developers have no problem fine tuning their game in an attempt to make for a fairer game. No game get perfect balance with enough variables, but some of them do a much better job than others. Of course you need to know who to listen to. Some people really don't know what they're talking about or make terrible suggestions even if they mean well or are just completely biased to what they want rather than what is or isn't fair. It sounds to me like you're the one who doesn't want to adjust.
Again, I don't disagree, but the issue is that as soon as a thread starts or devolves into one faction of players calling another faction of players out over something they disagree on (and exaggerating bad characteristics that do not represent the whole of that faction), then it regresses into a bunch of back and forth slurs and posturing.
If you really want a game that more truly reflects DnD gameplay (and this game is definitely not that at the moment), then you should direct your attention to where the real issue lies. Do you blame children for acting badly in the presence of their parents? No, you blame the parents for indulging them. But I really do think that this game is less about DnD rules, and more about DnD environments and "feel". It's "based on", after all.
This man is wise. Listen to him.
However, for the sticklers to the Rules: It's been stated by Cryptic Studios CEO Jack Emmert that "While the game is based off of 4th edition, it is technically its own edition."
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
YES, so much this.
There are too many people around here who want "class balance" in the name of PVP, but their idea of "balance" would completely destroy the cooperative nature of D&D. Their idea of "balance" is that, given equal skill and gear, any class should be able to beat any other class. And that simply shouldn't be the case at all when you have classes that have different abilities that are needed to carry the group through the adventure.
PVP is inherently in opposition to PVE because the nature of PVP wants to homogenize the classes so that they are all equal, but the nature of PVE wants to diversify the classes so that each brings their own unique and necessary abilities to conquer a dungeon. The two can't exist simultaneously.
Well said Zebular, thanks for laying it out reasonably, and politely
I agree!
However, the set of rules people are talking about here are anything but random. The rules people are talking about here are in fact the reason this game exists at all. D&D is, at its heart, a set of rules governing cooperative gameplay. Those rules are D&D.
In this vast tabletop which is the Neverwinter MMO, Cryptic/PW/WoTC are the DM and can ultimately do as they please.
Of course, if you're truly a D&D fan you know what can happen when the DM loses his mind and goes nuclear on his players
The game is fun BECAUSE of the imbalances. Wizards invoke magic and Rogues hit single targets hard. Their damage dealing abilities SHOULDN'T be the same. Otherwise, what's the point of having a wizard class and a rogue class in the first place?
And your flippant attitude towards D&D is part of the entire problem.
To me there are plenty of qq'ers, whiners and nerfers to spread the blame around on both side. Stop trying to pin it in any one set of people.
I think a lot of reasonable people on both sides, asked for slight adjustments, not massive wave changes. Due to the schedule, they also released this before it was ready. Many people pointed out the issues involved before that final release, including the op on some of the CW skills.
I suspect sometimes in the next month to see a few more things adjusted around.
BTW, there is literally no way you are going to make a MMO to follow rules on a paper game.. I mean just no way.
Also, Ive never played a game in 20 years of MMO play that was balanced.. on either side.. I mean my Warden in Lotro could solo elite landscape , do all pve group quests and solo intro epic dungeons ten levels lower.. was that balanced? When my Loremaster couldnt do any of that...
Was it balanced that my troll warrior in EQ could stompfest anything in early days of EQ pvp land?
This has been going on forever..
Some suggestions to improve forums.
1. PVP should have its own forum thread.
2. ALL classes should have their own thread, please remove the GWF and GF combo threads, its really bad for both classes.
3. <snip - contact Moderators via PM to discuss the Rules please. Thanks!>
What makes D&D are the characters we get to create and play based on the D&D rules.
If the CEO Jack Emmert truly is a fan of D&D as he said at GEN CON, he will not allow all this destruction of the core D&D skills / at wills / encounters. If Jack Emmert wants to keep his D&D fans (not the ones that sat down to play him and had no clue what to do with the dice), then let's see how much this game will embody the actual characters allowed in D&D within the next 6 months.
. . . The Community Team is pushing for 1 & 2. Hopefully soon! Contact me to discuss #3 as we cannot discuss the Forum Rules here. Thanks!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]