So, you agree with me. Thank you
Well, then, explain me why everyone is still asking for CWs (even to do a 5 CW party) on P.E. and not, in example, TRs. I am really interested in this explanation.
Part of this is that people are still stuck on M3 class composition meta and some CWs are still stuck in the "I am the dps king" line of thought. I have two examples of this.
Did a run of FH on my GWF. The CW had twice the paingiver score of anyone else, mostly because he was using ice storm as a daily and no one else could get aggro or attack more than a few targets at a time. Everything was being scattered like crazy and naturally ran back straight to him becuase he had aggro. Our finish time was pathetic, I added him to my ignore list.
Did a TOS run on my CW. Rest of the party was two GWFs, 1 rogue, 1 DC. All of them were at the 12-13k level, my CW is just below 16k. My CW is control spec oppressor with high recovery. I use entangle on tab and sings for daily and freeze things in place with icy terrain and sudden storm, last encounter is COI for damage. With this spec I can very easily solo control a dungeon. It was as smooth a run as I have ever done in TOS. I was top pain giver with something like 15 mil and the GWFs were 2nd and 3rd with 13 mill and 12 mill. Let me repeat that, I solo controlled the entire dungeon like cake, and GWFs that were not NEARLY as well geared or skilled finished a couple of mill behind me. Now, if I went renegade and used a different encounter set-up I could do a good bit more damage, but not M3 damage. In my opinion the future of CWs lies in control and it would be better if everyone realized that sooner rather than later.
A lot of people think that the CW class still does M3 damage, it does not. The difference is M4 CW does all it's damage up-front as burst, because of how eye of the storm now works.
CW-class can MELT any other classes within seconds and, it they survive, can make the full single rotation to kill them for sure. (usually, Full RoF + Icy + SS is more than enough to kill anyone OR reducing their HP bars really a lot), so, again, something here must be wrong or mislead, because this is eactly what is happening right now on PvP... but seems like you only see (non existents) "contradictions" on my argumentation data, yet, you do almost constantly in yours
I'll show you a very "existent" contradiction in your statements right here, I might add you changed your tune after you realized you were wrong. You clearly do not have enough insight into the CW class to understand why they now "MELT" people.
CW-class is broken due a single skill which does most the damage of the whole class and which procs often than intended, IMO. And due "Perma CC"which, is totally wrong.
Can you explain "Reasonable"? Because i do not see anything "reasonable" on PERMA-CC vs players even with 20% of Tenacity
So far your balancing comments on the CW class targeted "severe reaction" the shield encounter, and storm spell. Severe reaction because of it's specific interaction with deep gash and GPF, which I do not understand how you can claim to be anything but biased. Nerfing shield would only make CWs weak in the ways that they are already weak, and do little to address they ways in which they are OP.
Storm spell is not what "melts" people. If anything it's eye of the storm. This is how I would "melt" a GWF sentinal on my CW, without using storm spell. Root him with icy rays, EOTS just auto procced on my first attack, and now every attack is a crit with a vorp enchant to boot, I then double beam ray of enfeeble, ice knife before he builds enough determination to unstoppable, hit him with COI and chill strike while he's still prone. If he did not sprint through my icy rays he is nearly dead or **** close to it, and again this is without SS. On my CW that rotation just did 100k+ damage in less than 10 seconds. 100k+ damage is not as OP as it sounds, becuase in pvp a lot of damage is mitigated, regened, deflected. I have seen videos of M3 GWFs mitigating/regening/deflecting 1mill+ damage in 1v1 matches. What's important in PVP is burst, and for CW that comes from EOTS, not SS. REMOVING SS ENTIRELY would not keep CWs from "melting" people, it would just keep them from doing it with ROF. Instead you would likely see them double beaming ROE like crazy as if this this game were a bad star wars knock off. Some of the best CWs I have seen in PVP in M4 DO NOT EVEN USE SS. They go for orb of imposition and EOTS, giving them both iron control and burst.
Sorry if i am repeating myself a lot. this being said, i will answer you with a question. How come that, in a PvP situation, is a 2 v CW (mod 4) seems fair and legit yet in a 2 vs GWF (mod 3) is not fair and legit? Can you explain this to me?
I would say that neither is legit, equally so, in different ways. My problem with YOU is that you seem to think M3 GWF was not OP, when clearly, it was, and this is why I call you a hypocrite.
Yes, that is why a lot of GWF-players, myself included, asked for a FIX for roar and its ability to pierce through CC inmunity (dodges and shield), but, again, if you being a CW, a TR or a HR had problems in brining down an OG GWF, then, the problem is not "from the GWF-class", but yours (and, as i said, a lot of playes on PvP are "newbies" [being gentle])... how come, then, that all GWF-players i have met and talked to them about this, agree on this? and the only ones who disagree with us were, in example, the CW-players whose stoon on a stop and only used "Q tab E R"??
Here again your in my opinion equating gear with skill. In other-words, other classes should have to have it, but the GWF class should not. You still want a root effect from a spam-able, fast activation, cone aoe(regardless of immunity pierce). You want the prone effect back on at least one encounter, which would make a IBS chain significantly easier to land, and deal damage through deflection. You want a buff to unstoppable (passive, very forgiving of mistakes) instead of sprint (active, involves skill).
I have some (sorry, i do not enter in domination as often as on mod3.... with any of my chars) Domination fights where my team had 0 CW but the enemy team had 2 and they lost that game, but, curious thing, they (both CWs) had the max kills of the matches... So, basically, you are saying the same thing as i did here
A "newbie" should never have the maximun kills on a PvP domination, yet this is what is happening on PvP right now.
CWs have always been top killers in pvp, due to ranged dps. The flip side is they also tend to die the most, becuase their defenses are weak. Even in M3, a CW left unmolested would often score the most kills. Molested, they would often spend as much time at the campfire as on a node. This is still true of M4 and would have still happened if the CW class had been PROPERLY balanced. MY experience has been that in a balanced match on my CW my K/D is usually even, it's positive if my team is stomping, and negative if my team is getting stomped. Even more interesting is that when I que with my rogue 4 out of 5 matches the opposing team's cw's have a negative K/D. As in they die more than they kill, sometimes 3 to 1.
IMHO, the broken one is ITC, not due it makes M.I. TR invulnerable to EVERYTHING, but due its time duration (5 seconds???).
Can't help but think this is a cheap shot directed at me.
Do I really need to point out that....... #1 ITC takes up a encounter slot. #2 It only make the TR "invulnerable" if he uses it from stealth, which a lot of semi-permas don't do in the first place. #3 Assailant, warped magics, and piercing blade ignore ITC. #4 ITC is STILL bugged so that it sometimes goes into cooldown without any effect. #5 If the rogue is caught by CC when his ITC is on CD he's dead.
Comments
Part of this is that people are still stuck on M3 class composition meta and some CWs are still stuck in the "I am the dps king" line of thought. I have two examples of this.
Did a run of FH on my GWF. The CW had twice the paingiver score of anyone else, mostly because he was using ice storm as a daily and no one else could get aggro or attack more than a few targets at a time. Everything was being scattered like crazy and naturally ran back straight to him becuase he had aggro. Our finish time was pathetic, I added him to my ignore list.
Did a TOS run on my CW. Rest of the party was two GWFs, 1 rogue, 1 DC. All of them were at the 12-13k level, my CW is just below 16k. My CW is control spec oppressor with high recovery. I use entangle on tab and sings for daily and freeze things in place with icy terrain and sudden storm, last encounter is COI for damage. With this spec I can very easily solo control a dungeon. It was as smooth a run as I have ever done in TOS. I was top pain giver with something like 15 mil and the GWFs were 2nd and 3rd with 13 mill and 12 mill. Let me repeat that, I solo controlled the entire dungeon like cake, and GWFs that were not NEARLY as well geared or skilled finished a couple of mill behind me. Now, if I went renegade and used a different encounter set-up I could do a good bit more damage, but not M3 damage. In my opinion the future of CWs lies in control and it would be better if everyone realized that sooner rather than later.
A lot of people think that the CW class still does M3 damage, it does not. The difference is M4 CW does all it's damage up-front as burst, because of how eye of the storm now works.
We agree on a lot of things, what we don't agree on is specific balancing changes to CW and GWF.
I'll show you a very "existent" contradiction in your statements right here, I might add you changed your tune after you realized you were wrong. You clearly do not have enough insight into the CW class to understand why they now "MELT" people.
So far your balancing comments on the CW class targeted "severe reaction" the shield encounter, and storm spell. Severe reaction because of it's specific interaction with deep gash and GPF, which I do not understand how you can claim to be anything but biased. Nerfing shield would only make CWs weak in the ways that they are already weak, and do little to address they ways in which they are OP.
Storm spell is not what "melts" people. If anything it's eye of the storm. This is how I would "melt" a GWF sentinal on my CW, without using storm spell. Root him with icy rays, EOTS just auto procced on my first attack, and now every attack is a crit with a vorp enchant to boot, I then double beam ray of enfeeble, ice knife before he builds enough determination to unstoppable, hit him with COI and chill strike while he's still prone. If he did not sprint through my icy rays he is nearly dead or **** close to it, and again this is without SS. On my CW that rotation just did 100k+ damage in less than 10 seconds. 100k+ damage is not as OP as it sounds, becuase in pvp a lot of damage is mitigated, regened, deflected. I have seen videos of M3 GWFs mitigating/regening/deflecting 1mill+ damage in 1v1 matches. What's important in PVP is burst, and for CW that comes from EOTS, not SS. REMOVING SS ENTIRELY would not keep CWs from "melting" people, it would just keep them from doing it with ROF. Instead you would likely see them double beaming ROE like crazy as if this this game were a bad star wars knock off. Some of the best CWs I have seen in PVP in M4 DO NOT EVEN USE SS. They go for orb of imposition and EOTS, giving them both iron control and burst.
I would say that neither is legit, equally so, in different ways. My problem with YOU is that you seem to think M3 GWF was not OP, when clearly, it was, and this is why I call you a hypocrite.
Here again your in my opinion equating gear with skill. In other-words, other classes should have to have it, but the GWF class should not. You still want a root effect from a spam-able, fast activation, cone aoe(regardless of immunity pierce). You want the prone effect back on at least one encounter, which would make a IBS chain significantly easier to land, and deal damage through deflection. You want a buff to unstoppable (passive, very forgiving of mistakes) instead of sprint (active, involves skill).
CWs have always been top killers in pvp, due to ranged dps. The flip side is they also tend to die the most, becuase their defenses are weak. Even in M3, a CW left unmolested would often score the most kills. Molested, they would often spend as much time at the campfire as on a node. This is still true of M4 and would have still happened if the CW class had been PROPERLY balanced. MY experience has been that in a balanced match on my CW my K/D is usually even, it's positive if my team is stomping, and negative if my team is getting stomped. Even more interesting is that when I que with my rogue 4 out of 5 matches the opposing team's cw's have a negative K/D. As in they die more than they kill, sometimes 3 to 1.
Can't help but think this is a cheap shot directed at me.
Do I really need to point out that....... #1 ITC takes up a encounter slot. #2 It only make the TR "invulnerable" if he uses it from stealth, which a lot of semi-permas don't do in the first place. #3 Assailant, warped magics, and piercing blade ignore ITC. #4 ITC is STILL bugged so that it sometimes goes into cooldown without any effect. #5 If the rogue is caught by CC when his ITC is on CD he's dead.