Thats not even the problem its Storm spell class feat it procs way to much and dose a insane amount of dmg.
Haha, yes it does do a lot of damage against weak players. So I will tell you a story about me vs one of the top HR, but first I will mention the best KDR is held by a TR with like 1k kills and 19 deaths. My rotation that will destroy your pathetic TR did about .5% damage of his hp. Me and the other cw focused solely on killing this guy. 2v1, guess how much damage we "OP" class people did vs this obviously inferior class? I'm not sure but he didn't break a sweat, we prob took about 1/3 of his life. My Icy rays crit for 6k and spell storm crit for 1k damage. Spell storm procs 20% of the time to any of you good at math, that's a lot of time for that HR to kill both me and my companion.
I don't know what is going on, but have you noticed how everything is dying so fast now, regardless of defensive stats? My GF has 40k HP, 47% DR, 26% deflec and 20% Tenacity and he can barely tank a node anymore. Not just CWs, but ranged HRs can easily drive me off of a node. 3 - 4 hits from them and I am in serious trouble. After last night I started missing the days of holding off a Mod 3 GWF in a prolonged melee scrap. Now, everything just melts. I can wreck things in a rotation, CWs still melt me after the patch, HRs can snipe you to death in 3 - 4 hits, I don't know what is going on. Fights last 10 seconds.
Oh, I swear you guys had some kind of shield that stops damage. You're also prone lock extraordinaires, unlike the Thaum CW running around. You're complaining that you can no longer tank against a CW and HR focusing on you? That's cute. I've fought GF that could similarly kill me in 2-3 hits, it has actually been like that for a while. If I get hit with bulls rush, pretty good chance Im not gonna make it. My advice is to work with your team more. When you step on a node with backup from ranged DPS classes, they will be the first targets, not you. Use that to your teams advantage, attack whoever is doing the most damage..basically attack their ranged dps unless their tanks are bothering your team. Teamwork + a bit of luck in who the que put you against = win every time.
Well, HRs are more deadly now because our survival feats got nerfed, so we all switched over to glass cannon mode again. Bye bye dots, hello crits. If everyone hadn't whined, we'd still be creeping round nodes trying not to die while our crappy damage, dots and cc whittled you down. Now, if you don't close the distance in time, you're toast in 10 seconds flat.
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
Regardless of what has been said to the current 'OPness' of CWs, I dont want to see these weak mod3 CWs again. In module 3 CWs were on disadvantage against many other classes.
Did a couple of PvP matches now and so far I can not see that CWs are THAT superior as many posters claim. I think most of them believe they should be as weak as in module 3 and are wondering why they can not faceroll CWs anymore. Granted, some things may need adjustments, but IMO these should be minor changes at best.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Regardless of what has been said to the current 'OPness' of CWs, I dont want to see these weak mod3 CWs again. In module 3 CWs were on disadvantage against many other classes.
Did a couple of PvP matches now and so far I can not see that CWs are THAT superior as many posters claim. I think most of them believe they should be as weak as in module 3 and are wondering why they can not faceroll CWs anymore. Granted, some things may need adjustments, but IMO these should be minor changes at best.
That's exactly what they want, to mop the floor with CW's like they loved to do. The tables have turned and now CW's have the luxury of returning the favor.
wow, With this kind of answers, someone newbie could think that CW-class could only kill DC-class... and only if the CW had a lot of luck and the DC-player had 0 skill...
My brother played CW since forever, and in module 3 he had crazy KDA and 70% win rate because he was smart enough to not fight people 1 vs 1 but stick to his allies and sniping easy kills.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Everyone was complaining that CW was underpowered in Pvp, but that is obvious, a controller class can't be powerfull when a lot of classes have dodges/immune. This is why his damages got increased, but too much.
From a GF's perspective, the difference between a Mod 3 GWF and a Mod 4 CW;
I could survive the GWF's troll rotation of Roar-Takedown-IBS, get up and fight back. CW's can now bring me out of guard and perma lock me to death. Mod 4 CWs are killing me faster than any Mod 3 GWF ever did.
Broken class is broken.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
From a GF's perspective, the difference between a Mod 3 GWF and a Mod 4 CW;
I could survive the GWF's troll rotation of Roar-Takedown-IBS, get up and fight back. CW's can now bring me out of guard and perma lock me to death. Mod 4 CWs are killing me faster than any Mod 3 GWF ever did.
Broken class is broken.
Also should be noted that GFs are quite a bit stronger now but the CW's ability doesnt discriminate: weak or strong you eat those Storm Spell procs and fall all the same.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
From a GF's perspective, the difference between a Mod 3 GWF and a Mod 4 CW;
I could survive the GWF's troll rotation of Roar-Takedown-IBS, get up and fight back. CW's can now bring me out of guard and perma lock me to death. Mod 4 CWs are killing me faster than any Mod 3 GWF ever did.
Broken class is broken.
well, your class was better equipped to actually withstand a gwf though. rest of us tend to die outright from prone combos.
just like how rogues have an easier time against wizards. 1 class isn't guaranteed to reliably win against every class.
I got a 19k GWF and a 17k CW. My GWF kills 90% of the CWs and my CW kills 90% of the GWFs 1v1. There are still HRs, TRs or GF out there killing both.
The problem is, that to be viable for PvP a GWF, TR or HR needs PvP specs and good gear. CWs are viable for PvP in decent gear with PvE spec, so it seems, that CW is OP now, bc 90% of the player base has PvE specs and/ or at max. decend gear.
HRs pircing blade still ignores DR, but one of 30 HRs in PvP is running in PvP spec with good gear, killing you in seconds. A PvP TR or SW can kill you just as easy as a HR (TR taking more time). Considering BIS geared PvP toons CW is not the OP class many are claiming.
In a normal PUG PvP group without BIS PvP players CWs seem to be OP bc 90% of PUGs are no BIS PvP players.
I got a 19k GWF and a 17k CW. My GWF kills 90% of the CWs and my CW kills 90% of the GWFs 1v1. There are still HRs, TRs or GF out there killing both.
The problem is, that to be viable for PvP a GWF, TR or HR needs PvP specs and good gear. CWs are viable for PvP in decent gear with PvE spec, so it seems, that CW is OP now, bc 90% of the player base has PvE specs and/ or at max. decend gear.
HRs pircing blade still ignores DR, but one of 30 HRs in PvP is running in PvP spec with good gear, killing you in seconds. A PvP TR or SW can kill you just as easy as a HR (TR taking more time). Considering BIS geared PvP toons CW is not the OP class many are claiming.
In a normal PUG PvP group without BIS PvP players CWs seem to be OP bc 90% of PUGs are no BIS PvP players.
When votes are cast its the popular majority that counts. If 90% of the player base is all about average gear and casual PVP then the game should be balanced for them. The rest can go do whatever they want, it matters not. So when a single class can easily dominate any other class without having top gear and skill, it has to be toned down in some way. This is how it works
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
When votes are cast its the popular majority that counts. If 90% of the player base is all about average gear and casual PVP then the game should be balanced for them. The rest can go do whatever they want, it matters not. So when a single class can easily dominate any other class without having top gear and skill, it has to be toned down in some way. This is how it works
No, they may have to change some feats or something else, but NOT tone it down. IF they would tone it down, CW would not be viable in PvP anymore and you would again have HRs TRs etc. ruling PvP and farming CWs.
No, they may have to change some feats or something else, but NOT tone it down. IF they would tone it down, CW would not be viable in PvP anymore and you would again have HRs TRs etc. ruling PvP and farming CWs.
The exact wording is subject to discussions and change the results however must be definitive. You cant have a class ( any class ) dominating PVP in PVE gear period. People like to use Mod 3 GWFs as an excuse for the current mages but the GWF never dominated in PVE gear thanks to auto procs from 50 feet away while keeping you perma CCed. Simple as that
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well, that is what Perma-TR-build is for... for both M.I. (pam pam pampampampam tiruriiiii) and W.K. . I do not understand the problem here, TBH.
I'll tell you the problem.
SM has no threatening rush, so he's behind IV in gap-closing. What are you gonna use? Battle Fury? Punishing Charge? MIGHTY LEAP? You just waste an encounter while the vanguard gap closes with an at-will. And did I forget the mark? SM has no mark unless you slot Daring Shout, which makes you waste a 2nd encounter slot. Not so practical is it?
Not even 2 days ago I watched my two friends practice. GWF VS CW (On preview)
GWF started with Iron Vanguard, CW kept teleproting away, but a combination of sprint and threatening rush gap-closed him. He kept stunlocking him to death until he killed him (took 2-3 rotations because of shield). But it was an easy Victory for the GWF since he kept 60% of his HP
Then he tried SwordMaster twice (One with Flourish, IBS, Daring Shout), the other with (Flourish, IBS, Battle fury) And I've never seen someone struggle so hard, he couldn't even get close to the CW, the CW just CCed him in distance while the GWF was like a helpless child. Mind you the CW waited for his sprint to end and rooted him with Icy Rays then he nuked him. He did that when he was Vanguard too but Threatening Rush broke him free (Yes, the at-will breaks you free from Icy ray's root if you're close enough to the CW).
If they do that again I'll record it for you. Or you can PM me in-game and I'll get you to fight a CW with your SM build while my Vanguard GWF friend also tries him.
Haha not at all. I think TR is completely pathetic (Check my other posts)
We were cornered into perma stealth. Even when soloing in module 4... (Ghost Stories is a NIGHTMARE for TR's).
Anyways, you choose your path, I can't convince you to go Iron Vanguard lol. Just pray that one day they make it on par with Vanguard (Just like GF, SwordMaster is amazing on GF now).
I also have a TR from Mod 1. XDDDD (other classes came on mod 2) So, i understand your pain on this too. XD
And yes, that is a thing i told to devs: they were just focussing on I.V. path, leaving SM path "powerless" (for a messed class) but they did some "stealthed buffs" which made it a bit more viable. I keep telling them what to improve to the SM Path... i hope they listen to me and make the changes i asked!! they will make SM a really viable build on PvP again. (Right now, is "viable" due me. XDDDD [sounds egocentric, i know, but is true... and not due "i am the only SM Destroyer on PvP" but it helps a lot. XDD])
lol I have a few suggestions that would make SM viable:
- CC immuntiy and faster activation on Flourish. "Stab them with BLINDING SPEED". I always laugh when I read Flourish's description because it's so wrong.
- CC immunity when using Punishing Charge
- FIX Steel Defense (Doesn't work in Domiantion at all... works in IWD)
- Buff Steel Grace to 20% at tier1, rank 2 and 3 are still 10%
i see that a bunch of CW-players are the only ones who are justifiying by a lot of means the OPness of the class.
You can talk all you want with your fellow CW-players partners all day and night long about how "balance" the CW class is right now and how noobs are the "rest".
"most of GWF, CW, GF, HR, DC, SW and TR players i have talk so far agree on this, then, making the 'population study about this matter' will not have a significant (more than 20%) "curve of error".
most of CW-players whose want to justify their points to let their class as it is right now have a PvP geared Iron Vanguard GWF-character from mod 3 (now, lets see how many of you take this back and/or delete the "GWF" char from your signatures)... And, the other one, is really funny see how a lot of non-GWF-players want to teach us, GWF-players, how to play with our own class and how it should be.
Is really funny that you are telling me "i suck with Sprint"... well, my 16k GS full Sentinel set with around 35k HP is melted, basically, by RoF + SS (obviously, CW uses other encounters too when i get closer) even if i sprint the whole ray (is not what i usually do, but it servers correctly for this explanation)(now, im pretty sure you will change your argument here, telling me that, then, i do not know how to use Unstop or my encounters [Battle fury, Takedown and IBS] or my class-feats [Focused Destroyer and bravery])
Also, and again, reading all this stuff coming from a CW-player.
Biased much? First of all, a ton of people have cws, in fact, if your going to make an alt and play it, the top pick is probably CW, mostly for their use in PVE, and not so much for pvp, furthermore the third pick would probably be GWF, for pvp and pve. And many, probably play both classes in pve and pvp. So you just directly contradicted yourself, because a lot of "CW players" ARE "GWF players". I get the distinct feeling you do not have a CW, but it's just a feeling. You on the other hand keep calling me a "CW player". You have no idea how much I'm laughing right now. My main is a TR, and I have invested about 10x the amount of effort into him as I have my CW. I am having 0 troubles with CWs on my TR, in fact, I am often killing them 2vs1. It doesn't happen that often, but yes, sometimes you run into good CWs in pug matches, and I kill those CWs too. If you want to classify me as anything it would be a "TR player" and it's the class I que the most domination matches with, and win with, and kill with, by far.
As I said before, M4 CW is really easy to play, and GF, HR, and DC have reason to complain. But as far as GWF and TR goes those classes played to their maximum potential have the edge on CW, that has been MY experience. If they do end up getting nerfed, then your looking at equally geared and well played TRs and GWFs beating the snot out of them, the key here being well-played. Kind of like, oh, I don't know a well played CW or TR beating an equally geared GWF in M3, but, without the edge. This may be appropriate if you consider GWF and TR to be counters to the CW class, just like the CW class is a counter to GF and DC, but at the same time they shouldn't return to M3, it would make me feel bad, beating the living snot out of them, even if it's my job, even when it's clear that THEY are as skilled as I am - this was M3.
If a good GWF faces a good CW then things are relatively balanced, if anything, I would give the edge to the GWF, by a large degree. If a bad GWF faces a bad CW then 9 times out of ten the GWF will lose. In a two vs two with skill variances, the majority of the time two cws will beat two GWFs. This is where the balance issue comes into play, especially in a pug match and that the cws will also beat the other classes easily.
My point is not that the CW class is not OP, it's that YOU of all people have absolutely no right to complain. Both because your(i'm assuming) main class was in the exact same position in M2 and M3, and also because YOU have the option to adapt, overcome, and beat the snot out of them even if they are OP. From what I see in your comments you just want things to be easy again, in fact in a earlier thread you said that the GWF class was balanced in M2 and M3. Last time I checked the leaderboards I saw every class represented on the first three pages, which is more than could be said for most of M3. When I say L2P, it means quit whining and adapt and overcome. But maybe you don't have what it takes.
When I said "You suck with sprint" maybe that was a bit harsh. Let me put things into perspective. Coming out of Mod 1 rogue was nerfed into the ground. Many people abandoned the class, but some persisted. They by and large sucked, but they adapted, overcame, and eventually came up with a build that was actually quite effective and polished their skills in the ways they could, in order to compete. The basic strength of the rogue class is actually very very weak. You see new and mid level rogues in pvp matches getting facerolled all the time. It is the multiplicative factor of stealth + flurry + skill that allows the rogue class to be played at all, and compete at the highest levels. I'm talking about combat here, not node contesting. It didn't happen overnight, and people take it for granted and call it "balanced" when really it is not. There are posts in this forum from the early days that said using flurry in pvp couldn't be done, and yet look at things today.
The basic strength of the GWF class is now below GF and CW and HR, but the potential for skill as a factor is higher than ever.
As an example if i'm on my GWF and I encounter a equally geared GF in terms of basic strength I'm at a disadvantage. He has more HP, he can block more damage and he hits just as hard. If I try to face tank him I'm probably going to lose, which more often than not, was not the case in M3. If, however I target lock him, zip around his block and nail him in the back with take down, chop him with a few sure strikes and then zip around again to my original position and drop a IBS on his head when he tries to reorient himself, I have negated his basic advantage over me with skill. I'll be the first to admit that I could be a lot better at it, and currently I can do this about 50% of the time. Now, against a really good GF this might not work, but one thing will not change, I control that fight, and I get to make all the first moves. I do this in fact a lot against every class, just to mess up their targeting, and people often have a very hard time dealing with it. Kind of like how people STILL have a very hard time dealing with flurry from stealth, even tho it's really not that hard to avoid.
There is no TR in PVE and so that's what my CW and GWF were for. I made both my GWF and CW in M2. I didn't play CW or GWF much in pvp, but I did play them, maybe around 5-6 matches a week. Did not much enjoy getting ganked as a CW, and found GWF to be far too simple. Just chain prone and kill, there were not really any skill shots. When your dying or cced, just pop unstoppable. This is not what I wanted out of my pvp experience.
Most of my friends and guild mates are actually GWFs and HRs. And I see some of them dropping those classes, which is a real shame. I keep telling them to adapt and mix things up and try stuff out, and offer to practice with them on my 23k hp, no tenacity, pve CW.
Because I am enjoying the hell out of M4 GWF. M4 PVP not quite as much. Fighting 40 soul puppets, and getting triple ganked by ranged classes, which ALL do quite a bit of damage now, SW and archery HR included, part of this is that the fix to arm pen made everyone hit harder, I'm seeing a 20% increase in damage on all my attacks on TR, which experienced no other change other than a nerf to wicked reminder. I do not think that people fully appreciate how powerful the new sprint is, in my opinon it is way better than the old unstoppable ever was. In a 1v1 sprint is more powerful than stealth ever was, and the basic strength of the M4 GWF is much higher than TR. Not so much in a pug match. People seem more than happy to sit on a node looking after there own skins and take pot shots rather than really support me as I get ganked 3vs1 when I close on the ranged classes, as I must. When I do manage to catch a CW in a 1v1 I tend to "beat the snot out of them". If I were to loosely classify cw players as bad, pve level, good, and finally elite. I would say I have beaten players at the "good" level. I remember I had a 1v1 with a tham CW with a Pvorp, he HURT, but I still killed him, with 5% HP left lol. I have also zipped around a corner with 20% HP left and seen a CW at full HP, and killed him in one rotation.
And I'm doing all this on a GWF with 600 tenacity, 29k HP, rank 6 enchants, and blue artifacts. He has a P terror, why? Because I made one for my rogue and then necrotic damage got nerfed, and I've been too lazy to sell it. I never invested much in my GWF, and now I wish I had.
I am destroyer, and IV. I went with 10 pts in sentinel for the mark damage. I use the same encounter set-up that you do, that is BF, TD, and IBS. The key to killing a CW is pressure, especially in the first 6 seconds. Even If I start from max range of 80ft I can cover that full distance in a couple of seconds and lose maybe 30% of my hp at most. The CW will barely have time to land more than one encounter or 3 ticks of ray of frost. At the end of my sprint I pop BF and start twitch sprinting. That is, I watch the CW, read when he is going to attack, twitch sprint through that attack and land take down during that window when he can't dodge. This requires anticipation and reading a CWs attacks, as most of them have delays, a given CW usually likes to open up with certain encounters as well. If you never paid attention to this in M3, it's hurting you now.
I have been playing GWF in pvp since M2, but I do main a TR, so if you want to say that i'm not a "GWF player" that's fine. Either way I have always and still do play my GWF in pvp far more often than my CW. If you get CCed in the first 10 seconds, your doing it wrong. If you run out of sprint before your battle fury comes off cooldown, your doing it wrong. Take down is not FLS or roar. It has activation time, it has short range, it has a small hitbox, in other words its a skill shot. I might add it's not 1/10th of the skill shot that duelist flurry is. That's not where the skill in playing a M4 GWF comes from, it comes from sprint. Having said that, you DO need to be able to land it. If your really having that much trouble hitting the CW you might be better off going with flouish, or FLS in the IV path rather than IBS. With regards to deep gash it is not what it once was and if your relying on a DOT to kill a CW who is super bursty that might be a bad idea, and for this reason, I dropped it, favoring +10% damage to at wills. The problems may be with your build I don't know, all I can say is how effective I am as a destroyer/IV, and I can kill most CWs at the same gear level in seconds. But I would say, you should still be able to take out a CW fairly well as long as your good with sprint. I only actually chain my TD and IBS when my target is low health. Otherwise I takedown then sure strike, gap close when the target breaks free and then land another skill shot, IBS, without the stun. This makes up for the dps I lost by swapping out FLS for BF. I can also build weapon mastery or destroyer stacks this way without needing a GPF, and maintain them with threatening rush. That's basically the jist of it. If you can't land IBS without a stun, frankly, I don't think your that good, although landing IBS is made possible by - you guessed it, the new sprint.
If you want it easy you should go play the new FOTM, CW. Likely, you are not doing this because you don't have one, and don't want to gear one either. You want the glory days of being on top while having it easy, which is exactly where CW is now, the difference being, that as a GWF you can beat the snot out of them even if they are good, if you are good. Even if CW gets nerfed into the ground, you would then complain about GF, HR, and probably TR as well. Because you can no longer beat them with faceroll tactics like you used to(post pathfinder the exception to this). As a rogue who has been wanting viable changes to his class for MONTHS now and only receiving nerf after nerf, when you just demand biased changes right after the mod hit like it's your entitled to it and flame the entire CW community like its the fault of every CW player now owning you, because you never learned how to hit with attacks that didn't have a half second activation time and 30x10 ft spreads or auto track and stun from insane distances (flourish) or any defense other than the one button press activation of unstoppable, I get a little hot under the collar. I saw skilled GWF players in M3 and respected them, and respect even more anyone sticking with the class and working to adapt rather than just complain. I predict that in the coming months these players are going to adapt and polish their skills and you are going to see some real MONSTER GWFS in pvp. Class imbalance is at this point on par with NW history and rogues were one of the first culprits, and GWFs one of the first victims. I see M4 as no worse than M3, just different, with a different class on top which might, indeed, actually be SW and CW once people finish gearing them and learning how to play them, in both PVP and PVE.
Now, with regards to pvp how would you feel about the following. CW continues to be the OP class for all of M4 and M5 and things only change in M6, in which CW is finally balanced and DC is now made the OP class hands down. Meanwhile, in M4 GWF gets nerfed again. Daily damage is reduced, unstoppable is removed, and sprint is buffed to "you take no damage while sprinting" and a second stamina refill encounter is added. No longer able to unstoppable anymore a GWF finds himself perma cced and killed by the OP CWs any time he stops sprinting. With certain feats, and pumping int to reduce stamina refill encounters CDs, some how GWF players figure out how to sprint all the time and find they are able to kill by very carefully slicing people up with sure strike, in-between sprints. Other players complain about the sprint and call you a coward, when in reality it's the only way you can survive against being perma-cced and killed by the OP CWs. Then, after M6 hits you go to the forums and you see a CW posting "DCs are so OP, they own everyone, their divine doohickey and righteousness splats are out of control" "CWs need their perma CC and unmitigated damage back" "CWs were just fine and balanced in M4 and M5" "Here are some facts and figures, pretty charts, and videos of 1v1s." In M6 it turns out that CWs are actually one of the best counters to DCs, but with shard and sudden storm. Now, what would you think of the CW in question?
0
isammaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited August 2014
CWs are perfectly balanced right now. End of story.
Comments
Haha, yes it does do a lot of damage against weak players. So I will tell you a story about me vs one of the top HR, but first I will mention the best KDR is held by a TR with like 1k kills and 19 deaths. My rotation that will destroy your pathetic TR did about .5% damage of his hp. Me and the other cw focused solely on killing this guy. 2v1, guess how much damage we "OP" class people did vs this obviously inferior class? I'm not sure but he didn't break a sweat, we prob took about 1/3 of his life. My Icy rays crit for 6k and spell storm crit for 1k damage. Spell storm procs 20% of the time to any of you good at math, that's a lot of time for that HR to kill both me and my companion.
Oh, I swear you guys had some kind of shield that stops damage. You're also prone lock extraordinaires, unlike the Thaum CW running around. You're complaining that you can no longer tank against a CW and HR focusing on you? That's cute. I've fought GF that could similarly kill me in 2-3 hits, it has actually been like that for a while. If I get hit with bulls rush, pretty good chance Im not gonna make it. My advice is to work with your team more. When you step on a node with backup from ranged DPS classes, they will be the first targets, not you. Use that to your teams advantage, attack whoever is doing the most damage..basically attack their ranged dps unless their tanks are bothering your team. Teamwork + a bit of luck in who the que put you against = win every time.
To end this
Fix Spell (mouse and others are so right about it): it dose x2 more damage..and procs nonstop.
Leave the bigger CC durations on...its fair for a cw.
Do somthing with assialing as well.
Change eye of Storm....8 seconds of 100% Crit chance...with CD of 20 seconds..aint normal.
Did a couple of PvP matches now and so far I can not see that CWs are THAT superior as many posters claim. I think most of them believe they should be as weak as in module 3 and are wondering why they can not faceroll CWs anymore. Granted, some things may need adjustments, but IMO these should be minor changes at best.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
That's exactly what they want, to mop the floor with CW's like they loved to do. The tables have turned and now CW's have the luxury of returning the favor.
My brother played CW since forever, and in module 3 he had crazy KDA and 70% win rate because he was smart enough to not fight people 1 vs 1 but stick to his allies and sniping easy kills.
I could survive the GWF's troll rotation of Roar-Takedown-IBS, get up and fight back. CW's can now bring me out of guard and perma lock me to death. Mod 4 CWs are killing me faster than any Mod 3 GWF ever did.
Broken class is broken.
Also should be noted that GFs are quite a bit stronger now but the CW's ability doesnt discriminate: weak or strong you eat those Storm Spell procs and fall all the same.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
well, your class was better equipped to actually withstand a gwf though. rest of us tend to die outright from prone combos.
just like how rogues have an easier time against wizards. 1 class isn't guaranteed to reliably win against every class.
The problem is, that to be viable for PvP a GWF, TR or HR needs PvP specs and good gear. CWs are viable for PvP in decent gear with PvE spec, so it seems, that CW is OP now, bc 90% of the player base has PvE specs and/ or at max. decend gear.
HRs pircing blade still ignores DR, but one of 30 HRs in PvP is running in PvP spec with good gear, killing you in seconds. A PvP TR or SW can kill you just as easy as a HR (TR taking more time). Considering BIS geared PvP toons CW is not the OP class many are claiming.
In a normal PUG PvP group without BIS PvP players CWs seem to be OP bc 90% of PUGs are no BIS PvP players.
When votes are cast its the popular majority that counts. If 90% of the player base is all about average gear and casual PVP then the game should be balanced for them. The rest can go do whatever they want, it matters not. So when a single class can easily dominate any other class without having top gear and skill, it has to be toned down in some way. This is how it works
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
No, they may have to change some feats or something else, but NOT tone it down. IF they would tone it down, CW would not be viable in PvP anymore and you would again have HRs TRs etc. ruling PvP and farming CWs.
The exact wording is subject to discussions and change the results however must be definitive. You cant have a class ( any class ) dominating PVP in PVE gear period. People like to use Mod 3 GWFs as an excuse for the current mages but the GWF never dominated in PVE gear thanks to auto procs from 50 feet away while keeping you perma CCed. Simple as that
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GWF had even more CC as CWs have now lol with that Roar bugged and prone chaining.
Lmao, WK destroys a CW 99.99% of the time. Because I never come visible at ALL. I don't need ITC.
Ask a forumite here who has met me in-game. He kept Pming me saying "Such a d0uchebag build".
This, WK's only weakness is that if he's caught. He's dead, period.
I'll tell you the problem.
SM has no threatening rush, so he's behind IV in gap-closing. What are you gonna use? Battle Fury? Punishing Charge? MIGHTY LEAP? You just waste an encounter while the vanguard gap closes with an at-will. And did I forget the mark? SM has no mark unless you slot Daring Shout, which makes you waste a 2nd encounter slot. Not so practical is it?
Not even 2 days ago I watched my two friends practice. GWF VS CW (On preview)
GWF started with Iron Vanguard, CW kept teleproting away, but a combination of sprint and threatening rush gap-closed him. He kept stunlocking him to death until he killed him (took 2-3 rotations because of shield). But it was an easy Victory for the GWF since he kept 60% of his HP
Then he tried SwordMaster twice (One with Flourish, IBS, Daring Shout), the other with (Flourish, IBS, Battle fury) And I've never seen someone struggle so hard, he couldn't even get close to the CW, the CW just CCed him in distance while the GWF was like a helpless child. Mind you the CW waited for his sprint to end and rooted him with Icy Rays then he nuked him. He did that when he was Vanguard too but Threatening Rush broke him free (Yes, the at-will breaks you free from Icy ray's root if you're close enough to the CW).
If they do that again I'll record it for you. Or you can PM me in-game and I'll get you to fight a CW with your SM build while my Vanguard GWF friend also tries him.
TL;DR: Life's a struggle for SwordMaster
Haha not at all. I think TR is completely pathetic (Check my other posts)
We were cornered into perma stealth. Even when soloing in module 4... (Ghost Stories is a NIGHTMARE for TR's).
Anyways, you choose your path, I can't convince you to go Iron Vanguard lol. Just pray that one day they make it on par with Vanguard (Just like GF, SwordMaster is amazing on GF now).
lol I have a few suggestions that would make SM viable:
- CC immuntiy and faster activation on Flourish. "Stab them with BLINDING SPEED". I always laugh when I read Flourish's description because it's so wrong.
- CC immunity when using Punishing Charge
- FIX Steel Defense (Doesn't work in Domiantion at all... works in IWD)
- Buff Steel Grace to 20% at tier1, rank 2 and 3 are still 10%
Biased much? First of all, a ton of people have cws, in fact, if your going to make an alt and play it, the top pick is probably CW, mostly for their use in PVE, and not so much for pvp, furthermore the third pick would probably be GWF, for pvp and pve. And many, probably play both classes in pve and pvp. So you just directly contradicted yourself, because a lot of "CW players" ARE "GWF players". I get the distinct feeling you do not have a CW, but it's just a feeling. You on the other hand keep calling me a "CW player". You have no idea how much I'm laughing right now. My main is a TR, and I have invested about 10x the amount of effort into him as I have my CW. I am having 0 troubles with CWs on my TR, in fact, I am often killing them 2vs1. It doesn't happen that often, but yes, sometimes you run into good CWs in pug matches, and I kill those CWs too. If you want to classify me as anything it would be a "TR player" and it's the class I que the most domination matches with, and win with, and kill with, by far.
As I said before, M4 CW is really easy to play, and GF, HR, and DC have reason to complain. But as far as GWF and TR goes those classes played to their maximum potential have the edge on CW, that has been MY experience. If they do end up getting nerfed, then your looking at equally geared and well played TRs and GWFs beating the snot out of them, the key here being well-played. Kind of like, oh, I don't know a well played CW or TR beating an equally geared GWF in M3, but, without the edge. This may be appropriate if you consider GWF and TR to be counters to the CW class, just like the CW class is a counter to GF and DC, but at the same time they shouldn't return to M3, it would make me feel bad, beating the living snot out of them, even if it's my job, even when it's clear that THEY are as skilled as I am - this was M3.
If a good GWF faces a good CW then things are relatively balanced, if anything, I would give the edge to the GWF, by a large degree. If a bad GWF faces a bad CW then 9 times out of ten the GWF will lose. In a two vs two with skill variances, the majority of the time two cws will beat two GWFs. This is where the balance issue comes into play, especially in a pug match and that the cws will also beat the other classes easily.
My point is not that the CW class is not OP, it's that YOU of all people have absolutely no right to complain. Both because your(i'm assuming) main class was in the exact same position in M2 and M3, and also because YOU have the option to adapt, overcome, and beat the snot out of them even if they are OP. From what I see in your comments you just want things to be easy again, in fact in a earlier thread you said that the GWF class was balanced in M2 and M3. Last time I checked the leaderboards I saw every class represented on the first three pages, which is more than could be said for most of M3. When I say L2P, it means quit whining and adapt and overcome. But maybe you don't have what it takes.
When I said "You suck with sprint" maybe that was a bit harsh. Let me put things into perspective. Coming out of Mod 1 rogue was nerfed into the ground. Many people abandoned the class, but some persisted. They by and large sucked, but they adapted, overcame, and eventually came up with a build that was actually quite effective and polished their skills in the ways they could, in order to compete. The basic strength of the rogue class is actually very very weak. You see new and mid level rogues in pvp matches getting facerolled all the time. It is the multiplicative factor of stealth + flurry + skill that allows the rogue class to be played at all, and compete at the highest levels. I'm talking about combat here, not node contesting. It didn't happen overnight, and people take it for granted and call it "balanced" when really it is not. There are posts in this forum from the early days that said using flurry in pvp couldn't be done, and yet look at things today.
The basic strength of the GWF class is now below GF and CW and HR, but the potential for skill as a factor is higher than ever.
As an example if i'm on my GWF and I encounter a equally geared GF in terms of basic strength I'm at a disadvantage. He has more HP, he can block more damage and he hits just as hard. If I try to face tank him I'm probably going to lose, which more often than not, was not the case in M3. If, however I target lock him, zip around his block and nail him in the back with take down, chop him with a few sure strikes and then zip around again to my original position and drop a IBS on his head when he tries to reorient himself, I have negated his basic advantage over me with skill. I'll be the first to admit that I could be a lot better at it, and currently I can do this about 50% of the time. Now, against a really good GF this might not work, but one thing will not change, I control that fight, and I get to make all the first moves. I do this in fact a lot against every class, just to mess up their targeting, and people often have a very hard time dealing with it. Kind of like how people STILL have a very hard time dealing with flurry from stealth, even tho it's really not that hard to avoid.
There is no TR in PVE and so that's what my CW and GWF were for. I made both my GWF and CW in M2. I didn't play CW or GWF much in pvp, but I did play them, maybe around 5-6 matches a week. Did not much enjoy getting ganked as a CW, and found GWF to be far too simple. Just chain prone and kill, there were not really any skill shots. When your dying or cced, just pop unstoppable. This is not what I wanted out of my pvp experience.
Most of my friends and guild mates are actually GWFs and HRs. And I see some of them dropping those classes, which is a real shame. I keep telling them to adapt and mix things up and try stuff out, and offer to practice with them on my 23k hp, no tenacity, pve CW.
Because I am enjoying the hell out of M4 GWF. M4 PVP not quite as much. Fighting 40 soul puppets, and getting triple ganked by ranged classes, which ALL do quite a bit of damage now, SW and archery HR included, part of this is that the fix to arm pen made everyone hit harder, I'm seeing a 20% increase in damage on all my attacks on TR, which experienced no other change other than a nerf to wicked reminder. I do not think that people fully appreciate how powerful the new sprint is, in my opinon it is way better than the old unstoppable ever was. In a 1v1 sprint is more powerful than stealth ever was, and the basic strength of the M4 GWF is much higher than TR. Not so much in a pug match. People seem more than happy to sit on a node looking after there own skins and take pot shots rather than really support me as I get ganked 3vs1 when I close on the ranged classes, as I must. When I do manage to catch a CW in a 1v1 I tend to "beat the snot out of them". If I were to loosely classify cw players as bad, pve level, good, and finally elite. I would say I have beaten players at the "good" level. I remember I had a 1v1 with a tham CW with a Pvorp, he HURT, but I still killed him, with 5% HP left lol. I have also zipped around a corner with 20% HP left and seen a CW at full HP, and killed him in one rotation.
And I'm doing all this on a GWF with 600 tenacity, 29k HP, rank 6 enchants, and blue artifacts. He has a P terror, why? Because I made one for my rogue and then necrotic damage got nerfed, and I've been too lazy to sell it. I never invested much in my GWF, and now I wish I had.
I am destroyer, and IV. I went with 10 pts in sentinel for the mark damage. I use the same encounter set-up that you do, that is BF, TD, and IBS. The key to killing a CW is pressure, especially in the first 6 seconds. Even If I start from max range of 80ft I can cover that full distance in a couple of seconds and lose maybe 30% of my hp at most. The CW will barely have time to land more than one encounter or 3 ticks of ray of frost. At the end of my sprint I pop BF and start twitch sprinting. That is, I watch the CW, read when he is going to attack, twitch sprint through that attack and land take down during that window when he can't dodge. This requires anticipation and reading a CWs attacks, as most of them have delays, a given CW usually likes to open up with certain encounters as well. If you never paid attention to this in M3, it's hurting you now.
I have been playing GWF in pvp since M2, but I do main a TR, so if you want to say that i'm not a "GWF player" that's fine. Either way I have always and still do play my GWF in pvp far more often than my CW. If you get CCed in the first 10 seconds, your doing it wrong. If you run out of sprint before your battle fury comes off cooldown, your doing it wrong. Take down is not FLS or roar. It has activation time, it has short range, it has a small hitbox, in other words its a skill shot. I might add it's not 1/10th of the skill shot that duelist flurry is. That's not where the skill in playing a M4 GWF comes from, it comes from sprint. Having said that, you DO need to be able to land it. If your really having that much trouble hitting the CW you might be better off going with flouish, or FLS in the IV path rather than IBS. With regards to deep gash it is not what it once was and if your relying on a DOT to kill a CW who is super bursty that might be a bad idea, and for this reason, I dropped it, favoring +10% damage to at wills. The problems may be with your build I don't know, all I can say is how effective I am as a destroyer/IV, and I can kill most CWs at the same gear level in seconds. But I would say, you should still be able to take out a CW fairly well as long as your good with sprint. I only actually chain my TD and IBS when my target is low health. Otherwise I takedown then sure strike, gap close when the target breaks free and then land another skill shot, IBS, without the stun. This makes up for the dps I lost by swapping out FLS for BF. I can also build weapon mastery or destroyer stacks this way without needing a GPF, and maintain them with threatening rush. That's basically the jist of it. If you can't land IBS without a stun, frankly, I don't think your that good, although landing IBS is made possible by - you guessed it, the new sprint.
If you want it easy you should go play the new FOTM, CW. Likely, you are not doing this because you don't have one, and don't want to gear one either. You want the glory days of being on top while having it easy, which is exactly where CW is now, the difference being, that as a GWF you can beat the snot out of them even if they are good, if you are good. Even if CW gets nerfed into the ground, you would then complain about GF, HR, and probably TR as well. Because you can no longer beat them with faceroll tactics like you used to(post pathfinder the exception to this). As a rogue who has been wanting viable changes to his class for MONTHS now and only receiving nerf after nerf, when you just demand biased changes right after the mod hit like it's your entitled to it and flame the entire CW community like its the fault of every CW player now owning you, because you never learned how to hit with attacks that didn't have a half second activation time and 30x10 ft spreads or auto track and stun from insane distances (flourish) or any defense other than the one button press activation of unstoppable, I get a little hot under the collar. I saw skilled GWF players in M3 and respected them, and respect even more anyone sticking with the class and working to adapt rather than just complain. I predict that in the coming months these players are going to adapt and polish their skills and you are going to see some real MONSTER GWFS in pvp. Class imbalance is at this point on par with NW history and rogues were one of the first culprits, and GWFs one of the first victims. I see M4 as no worse than M3, just different, with a different class on top which might, indeed, actually be SW and CW once people finish gearing them and learning how to play them, in both PVP and PVE.
Now, with regards to pvp how would you feel about the following. CW continues to be the OP class for all of M4 and M5 and things only change in M6, in which CW is finally balanced and DC is now made the OP class hands down. Meanwhile, in M4 GWF gets nerfed again. Daily damage is reduced, unstoppable is removed, and sprint is buffed to "you take no damage while sprinting" and a second stamina refill encounter is added. No longer able to unstoppable anymore a GWF finds himself perma cced and killed by the OP CWs any time he stops sprinting. With certain feats, and pumping int to reduce stamina refill encounters CDs, some how GWF players figure out how to sprint all the time and find they are able to kill by very carefully slicing people up with sure strike, in-between sprints. Other players complain about the sprint and call you a coward, when in reality it's the only way you can survive against being perma-cced and killed by the OP CWs. Then, after M6 hits you go to the forums and you see a CW posting "DCs are so OP, they own everyone, their divine doohickey and righteousness splats are out of control" "CWs need their perma CC and unmitigated damage back" "CWs were just fine and balanced in M4 and M5" "Here are some facts and figures, pretty charts, and videos of 1v1s." In M6 it turns out that CWs are actually one of the best counters to DCs, but with shard and sudden storm. Now, what would you think of the CW in question?