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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › The Moonstone Mask (PC)

What's Lesser Indominable Runestone's "alignment"?

ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
edited August 2014 in The Moonstone Mask (PC)
From roleplaying's viewpoint, Lesser Tranquil Enchentment and Lesser Serene Runestone apparently are good-aligned/positive because of their peaceful names.

And Lesser Tenebrous Enchantment, as it deals Necrotic damage to foes and drops from Nightmare Lockbox, is a negative/necrotic thing.

How about Lesser Indomitable Runestone? Its description says it deals Physical damage, and that's neutral. However, since it drops from Nightmare Lockbox, it might be negative, too.

Is there a background story about Lesser Indomitable Runestone?

Btw, these enchantments and runestones really need to have their own background stories, imho.



P.S. I mis-typed "Indomitable" as "Indominable" in the original thread title.
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
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Comments

  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Dude just make it up yourself. The dev's don't and shouldn't spell out everything for you. /smh
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Dude just make it up yourself. The dev's don't and shouldn't spell out everything for you. /smh
    This is a RPG so players should be able to know the basic information of anything.

    Players shouldn't be told to spell out everything by themselves. That's not RP.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    This is a RPG so players should be able to know the basic information of anything.

    Players shouldn't be told to spell out everything by themselves. That's not RP.
    No actually you're completely wrong. This is why:

    1) When you RP you are creating a story. It's a story you are making with others but the opinions of the character come from you. When the dev's spell out everything, you are no longer creating your own story, you are reading someone else's. You are no longer RP'ing you are reading a novel.

    2) Knowing everythings alignment is meta-data. Your character shouldn't know everything, they're not omniscient. When you start asking for and using meta-data you aren't role-playing anymore.

    Because of these two reasons the dev's should never ever list all this information that you want.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    No actually you're completely wrong. This is why:

    1) When you RP you are creating a story. It's a story you are making with others but the opinions of the character come from you. When the dev's spell out everything, you are no longer creating your own story, you are reading someone else's. You are no longer RP'ing you are reading a novel.

    2) Knowing everythings alignment is meta-data. Your character shouldn't know everything, they're not omniscient. When you start asking for and using meta-data you aren't role-playing anymore.

    Because of these two reasons the dev's should never ever list all this information that you want.
    RP mainly focuses on your character's reactions with the environment, in short, you decide your character to be good or evil. It doesn't focus on creating stories of the environment. If you are creating stories of the environment, you are a DM, not a RP'er.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    RP mainly focuses on your character's reactions with the environment, in short, you decide your character to be good or evil. It doesn't focus on creating stories of the environment. If you are creating stories of the environment, you are a DM, not a RP'er.

    Even if I give you that, it doesn't take away number 2 and it shouldn't be done on that reason alone. I still disagree on point one, but I'll give that as debatable.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Even if I give you that, it doesn't take away number 2 and it shouldn't be done on that reason alone. I still disagree on point one, but I'll give that as debatable.
    Actually I'm not asking to be omniscient. But at least I should be able to infer/speculate an item's internal. Take Lesser Tranquil Enchentment for example, although it doesn't clearly say it's good, I can infer it is because it has a peaceful and safe name. But Lesser Indomitable Runestone is just unclear and vague.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    Actually I'm not asking to be omniscient. But at least I should be able to infer/speculate an item's internal. Take Lesser Tranquil Enchentment for example, although it doesn't clearly say it's good, I can infer it is because it has a peaceful and safe name. But Lesser Indomitable Runestone is just unclear and vague.
    And that is all your character should ever know and all you should ever know.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    And that is all your character should ever know and all you should ever know.
    If it had a background description (like Lesser Fey Blessing Enchantment has) which says something like: "No one knows where this mysterious runestone comes from. All you know is it sometimes protects its owner by dealing damage to foes." I would accept that. Since it doesn't even have a background description, I personally still consider that the story/content designer was being lazy.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Man the things you get upset about, in all seriousness take a deep breath. If this kind of stuff bothers you, you should work on that as I'd be worrying that you're going to drop from a heart attack or some other form of heart disease, it's kind of scary.
  • myles08807myles08807 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I believe this same thread-starter was going on a while back about not wanting to have Life Steal as a stat because it sounded subtly "evil" to him. We must try to be tolerant of a wide variety of play styles, I guess...but we have an "ignore player" feature in-game for a variety of very, very good reasons.
  • cookiecrisp15cookiecrisp15 Banned Users Posts: 532 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    ./inserts facepalm
  • dragoness10dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Tranquil - An evil person could be very tranquil whilst doing some very bad things. Charles Manson always looked very chilled.

    Sererne - Again this is not an indication of alignment, but rather a state of mind. Think Kill Bill and the charecter of Bill. He was so zen, and yet such a very bad man too.

    Tenebrous - This is an adjective that means "dark, gloomy, obscure". Professor Severus Snape from Harry Potter fits this bill, but he ended up being Harry's watcher caring for him and his mother very much.

    Indomitable - I do like this word. "Adjective; that cannot be subdued or overcome, as persons, will, or courage; unconquerable". That can be any alignment.


    My long prattling point on all of this is that assigning an "alignment" to an adjective to apply to your charecter is illogical. Use what you need, and then make that need fit the RP. You invent your own RP so why make it more difficult for yourself (or others) to enjoy the game by such nitpicking?
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  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If given the choice between debating with Ian, or bashing my head against a concrete wall. I would choose the wall. I simply have a much greater chance of getting through it, and in the end, it would actually hurt less.
  • exandresexandres Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 15
    edited August 2014
    myles08807 wrote: »
    I believe this same thread-starter was going on a while back about not wanting to have Life Steal as a stat because it sounded subtly "evil" to him. We must try to be tolerant of a wide variety of play styles, I guess...but we have an "ignore player" feature in-game for a variety of very, very good reasons.

    I believe he didn't want to use "Steal Time" because it was stealing! And he didn't want to complete his daily Dread Ring because he was supposed to "steal" something. :D

    sockmunkey wrote: »
    If given the choice between debating with Ian, or bashing my head against a concrete wall. I would choose the wall. I simply have a much greater chance of getting through it, and in the end, it would actually hurt less.

    Yeah, this guy is bad. Ya know, no social life, only game, so he wants to make this game into his reality. And to do this his needs to know origin of everything, take moral dilemmas into freaking MMO...

    Nooo, he MUST be a troll. I mean you can't be so... you know... zebular will delete this word anyway...
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm a full time Rper. BUt I find Ian's demands and requests outright ridiculous.

    The first few times it was funny because of disbeleif, that funny wore off about 2 threads of his ago.
  • crazymikeecrazymikee Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Dude just make it up yourself. The dev's don't and shouldn't spell out everything for you. /smh

    You're suppost to be "playing a roll" in the game (RP), and that means immersing yourself in the already lore of the game, not making it up as you go along. /goml
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  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Until such time as the devs add a "detect alignment" spell/ability into the game and/or add sufficient lore to determine the truth of the matter for *any* item in game, you are on your own - I guess you or your character are going to have to learn to live with uncertainty...
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  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited August 2014
    The Alignment and Personality System in 4th Edition are optional rules. Alignment doesn't exist in the core rules and this game is based off of 4th Edition. In any case, magic is neither good nor evil, it is how it is used that defines its effects. Necromancy Magic isn't evil or good, how it is used on the other hand is what makes it be perceived in such a manner. Positive energy is not "good" and negative energy is not "evil" - it is a common misconception to think otherwise. They are polar opposites of an energy field. One happens to be favored by "good" beings while the other by "evil" beings. That does not mean either energies are good nor evil.

    Here, just like in Paper & Pencil, you have all the information your character knows available to you; now it is up to you to understand that and roleplay how you see fit. Playing D&D in a way that is too strict to "the rules" without regard for anything else but what is written in front of you is not how one "Role-plays" in D&D. There are no "Rules" in D&D, only "Guidelines." Well... save for the Dungeon Master, they'd be considered the "only Rule."

    I do agree with your underlying sentiment though; That all our magical items should show in their Tool-tips the type of magic or energy their power manifested from or draws from (e.g. Alteration, Necromantic, Positive, Negative, and so on).
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  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zebular wrote: »
    Positive energy is not "good" and negative energy is not "evil" - it is a common misconception to think otherwise. They are polar opposites of an energy field. One happens to be favored by "good" beings while the other by "evil" beings. That does not mean either energies are good or evil.
    I think a good analogy to this is medicine. In and of themselves they're just chemicals. Yet someone with the knowledge can walk into a pharmacy and pick up things that would heal you or kill you, which ever they decided.
  • anharmonanharmon Member Posts: 175
    edited August 2014
    I've always found this fairly self-explanatory. Power is neither good nor evil. It is simply a tool.

    Positive energy being associated with good beings is merely a coincidence of sorts -- in my head, I imagine the name "positive energy" arose because it was associated with good, not the other way around.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Thanks all for your inputs. I agree that both positive energy and negative energy aren't inherently good or evil. They are just two different forms of energies. It's just the behavior which utilize them being good or evil.

    I checked the definition of "indomitable" again and confirmed that it actually has a good meaning.

    The reason I want to know these enchants' internals is because I want to use them as sources of refinement points. So I have to avoid using unholy enchants such as Dark Enchantment or Profane Runestone as they would pollute my items' pureness (from the viewpoint of roleplaying).

    I will try to figure out the reason/motivation that devs added Lesser Indomitable Runestone in "Nightmare" Lockbox and decide if it really is safe to use. If a dev could advise, that would be very helpful.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    The reason I want to know these enchants' internals is because I want to use them as sources of refinement points. So I have to avoid using unholy enchants such as Dark Enchantment or Profane Runestone as they would pollute my items' pureness (from the viewpoint of roleplaying).

    Wait, you're avoiding evil refinement points? Seriously?
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Most awesome thread ever.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    I will try to figure out the reason/motivation that devs added Lesser Indomitable Runestone in "Nightmare" Lockbox and decide if it really is safe to use. If a dev could advise, that would be very helpful.

    A) Devs barely post in threads to answer questions that affect the gameplay of everyone. You're not that special.
    B) I doubt whoever designed the box contents thought it through to the extent that you have. Honestly.

    Just do whatever feels right to Ian-the-character. That *is* appropriate roleplaying. What you're trying to do is actually called metagaming, where your character reacts based on information that they would have absolutely no way of knowing in-character.
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  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

    The reason I want to know these enchants' internals is because I want to use them as sources of refinement points. So I have to avoid using unholy enchants such as Dark Enchantment or Profane Runestone as they would pollute my items' pureness (from the viewpoint of roleplaying).

    So what do you do with all those unused evil Enchants and Runes? Do you destroy them? That might still get your hands dirty. Or do you profit from them by selling them to players or vendors? That would be a bit naughty. I'll gladly take any you don't want off your hands. So they might be...purified, properly. Therefore unburdening you of any awkward moral problems.
  • lazaroth666lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I wonder if he's really so addicted to RP, can I take a Trickster Rogue and steal all of his items? Maybe if I'm able to corner him somewhere in PE...
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  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lazaroth666 wrote: »
    I wonder if he's really so addicted to RP, can I take a Trickster Rogue and steal all of his items? Maybe if I'm able to corner him somewhere in PE...
    Can I send his soul to Belial in a couple days then take all his stuff?
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I understand that devs aren't likely to comment at here just for one player. Hopefully they could add background description text to each enchantment and runestone in the future. Having stories to back up them would make them more meaningful. It's just like all companions have short descriptions, which help us know more about their background and past so that we can decide if it is fine to let them aid us in our adventures.

    As for how I handle Dark Enchantment and Profane Runestone, I use them to refine Radiant Enchantment to rank 8 and then sell the Radiant Enchantment to other players. Actually I can't say for sure about whether or not unholy refinement materials pollute receivers. There is no story tells us refinement materials affect receivers with their internals or they being received as primordial energy, which does no harm to anything. Anyway, players who are willing to buy enchants from other players surely don't care about this issue so I sell the Radiant Enchantment to them. Is the Radiant Enchantment refined in this way polluted or not? Who knows. Maybe it is. Maybe it is not.


    == EDIT ==
    And now a new issue just come into my mind. I will have to avoid using equipments which have Life Steal bonus to refine my Artifact Weapons and Belts in module 4. *sigh* As you can see, that is how a RPG with RP issues troubles its serious RP'ers. I really hope they rename that character state to Restoration or remove it from the game completely.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

    == EDIT ==
    And now a new issue just come into my mind. I will have to avoid using equipments which have Life Steal bonus to refine my Artifact Weapons and Belts in module 4. *sigh* As you can see, that is how a RPG with RP issues troubles its serious RP'ers. I really hope they rename that character state to Restoration or remove it from the game completely.

    NO lol don't remove lifesteal xD and considering how many RP you need to refine artifact gear to lvl 60 the last thing you want to do is make your progress any more difficult xD
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  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    ianthewizard2012 wrote: »
    As for how I handle Dark Enchantment and Profane Runestone, I use them to refine Radiant Enchantment to rank 8 and then sell the Radiant Enchantment to other players. Actually I can't say for sure about whether or not unholy refinement materials pollute receivers. There is no story tells us refinement materials affect receivers with their internals or they being received as primordial energy, which does no harm to anything. Anyway, players who are willing to buy enchants from other players surely don't care about this issue so I sell the Radiant Enchantment to them. Is the Radiant Enchantment refined in this way polluted or not? Who knows. Maybe it is. Maybe it is not.

    The devs should introduce an "organically grown" mark and system of snap inspections, so innocents like me can go shopping on the AH in safety, buying our Radiant enchants safe in the knowledge that they have not been polluted with pesticides or foul abominations by evildoers like you. If not even our Radiants are sacred now, what are we to do? Kelemvor have mercy upon you!
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