What are you talking about? Never heard a complain in PVE about CW's. Why should ppl complain? We are all very happy that CW's can take care of those hundreds of adds in dungeons and skirmishes.
If something should be done about CW's is an improvement of his powers for PvP. As everybody knows you dont stand much of a chance in PvP as CW. PvP area is the kingdom of a few (perfect armed) classes that we all know.
No, a lot of ppl complained because CW is OP in PvE, also it's the only class being asked for everything (and GWF maybe), they have a lot of AoE, huge CC and are 1st in the DPS charts, they are the only class requested while the TR/GF (and HR sometimes) are sitting in a corner waiting for the charity slot in a party, that's OK for you?, Why don't give a chance to the other classes?, or for you is OK that there is only 1 class able to take care of those hundreds of adds in dungeons and skirmishes with not even the help of a "Tank" or a Cleric making all other classes useless?.
However there are changes coming in Mod 4, I hope they are going in the right direction.
No, a lot of ppl complained because CW is OP in PvE, also it's the only class being asked for everything (and GWF maybe), they have a lot of AoE, huge CC and are 1st in the DPS charts, they are the only class requested while the TR/GF (and HR sometimes) are sitting in a corner waiting for the charity slot in a party, that's OK for you?, Why don't give a chance to the other classes?, or for you is OK that there is only 1 class able to take care of those hundreds of adds in dungeons and skirmishes with not even the help of a "Tank" or a Cleric making all other classes useless?.
However there are changes coming in Mod 4, I hope they are going in the right direction.
A lot of ppl complained?? Allow me to doubt that. Of course there is always some frustrated player complaining about everything. If you think a CW is OP in PvE make one. If you think a GWF or TR is OP in PvP make one, and so on. It is rather childish to accuse certain class to be OP and ask for a nerf. When I started to play I did some PVP and I saw that -in that time-the TR was the god of PVP but instead of coming here crying asking for a nerf I made a TR myself.
What you say about the CW being the only class requested in PvE parties is just plain nonsens. Some classes might be more needed than others depending on the dungeon but this is not the fault of the CW's. Some classes -like the DC and GF could use some improvement for PvE.
The problem is the struggle between PvE and PvP. Some classes are good at PvE and others are better at PvP. If you are not happy whith your class ask for an improvement. Asking for a nerf of a particular class is just pathetic.
Greetings
Here is a suggestion. There needs to be a pvp ladder based on pvp rules. Players have to make it balanced not the dev's. I would suggest starting up a discussion on what is expectable for 1 on 1 pvp. We used to say no heals regen or holds. Why people do not pvp here? Because it is a joke. You have open pvp land with no restriction for gear. Or when A domination match goes into effect there should be a limit amount of players entering from each team. If ten blues are in ten reds are aloud in. The wall should be just that a bearer of sorts.
Main suggestion would to get rid of root items for pvp period. There is no skill involved in failing a save.
On a last note please restrict the amount of instances on open pvp lands. Your watering down the amount players.
A lot of ppl complained?? Allow me to doubt that. Of course there is always some frustrated player complaining about everything. If you think a CW is OP in PvE make one. If you think a GWF or TR is OP in PvP make one, and so on. It is rather childish to accuse certain class to be OP and ask for a nerf. When I started to play I did some PVP and I saw that -in that time-the TR was the god of PVP but instead of coming here crying asking for a nerf I made a TR myself.
What you say about the CW being the only class requested in PvE parties is just plain nonsens. Some classes might be more needed than others depending on the dungeon but this is not the fault of the CW's. Some classes -like the DC and GF could use some improvement for PvE.
The problem is the struggle between PvE and PvP. Some classes are good at PvE and others are better at PvP. If you are not happy whith your class ask for an improvement. Asking for a nerf of a particular class is just pathetic.
Greetings
1. Asking for a nerf isn't pathetic for an OP class, lol, what if the GF class were the 1st in DPS, the 1st in AOE, the 1st in CC and 1st in survivability?, do you think a "Tank" class can have all those things?, nope?, well, I think the same, the difference between you and me is that I think that a CONTROL wizard shouldn't be able to do that too, they are not a striker class, they supposedly shouldn't be 1st in Damage, they should be 1st in Control.
2. I didn't said it was CW's fault, when and where did I say that?...
3. You say: "What you say about the CW being the only class requested in PvE parties is just plain nonsens"... Do you play this game?, you need to enter and see cause I can't belive you don't know about this... see the LFG Channel and tell me how often someone says that he need a HR/TR/GF v/s a CW (in lvl 60 parties)... I would bet anything you want that the ppl LFM CW exceeds by at least 5 times the sum of the LFM for the other 3 classes I mentioned before.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
edited July 2014
100% PVE all the way. I despise pvp, mainly because it attracts people that I have zero desire to game with (whiners and/or *****wavers, depending on if they're losing or winning, plus a large number of cheaters who will do anything to be "better than you"), and I find the same fight over and over to be dreadfully dull. I've felt this way about pvp since my MUDding days. I did try pvp here, and it was no different of an experience. I have not touched it since.
I came here because it's D&D, and because there is Foundry. Alas, Foundry is ignored by most because of the lack of reward.
If they would revamp the Foundry reward system to put it near or on par with the pvp reward system, the game would dramatically change, and I think it would be a change for the better.
If they would revamp the Foundry reward system to put it near or on par with the pvp reward system, the game would dramatically change, and I think it would be a change for the better.
My suggestion is, there should be progressive rewards to completing foundry missions for balance, instead of simply incentives to create them. A totally optional campaign similar to PVP campaign where players can complete unique featured foundries and get rewarded with unlocks. Key words, unique and featured, so players can't exploit by repeating missions, or create farming ones.
It is interesting to see how only 17% of this sample are PvP only players, yet 2 out of 3 threads (yes, I'm exaggerating a bit) are about PvP, and how unbalanced it is. It is just confirming my prior suspicions that PvP players are way more vocal.
I am sure Cryptic has it's own statistics, but this should be a good reminder not to compromise PvE experience for the sake of very small PvP minority.
Therenil - Hunter Ranger, Stormwarden/Trapper
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited July 2014
For me it's interesting to see how surprised the PvPers are when they see the results of this poll.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
edited July 2014
Devs/GMs/etc: Pay attention to this poll! This is important! The PvP crowd might be the noisiest of the players when talking about what they want or don't want, but the majority of the game is NOT here for that. Keep the focus where it belongs: PvE, and the D&D/Forgotten Realms setting.
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
Devs/GMs/etc: Pay attention to this poll! This is important! The PvP crowd might be the noisiest of the players when talking about what they want or don't want, but the majority of the game is NOT here for that. Keep the focus where it belongs: PvE, and the D&D/Forgotten Realms setting.
Devs/GMs/etc: Pay attention to this poll! This is important! The PvP crowd might be the noisiest of the players when talking about what they want or don't want, but the majority of the game is NOT here for that. Keep the focus where it belongs: PvE, and the D&D/Forgotten Realms setting.
The part that shocks me isn't the pvp only votes, that's about where I thought it would be. The part that shocks me is the both group. I thought both would be equal to pve only or even ahead of it. Most people I talk to do a little of both. I wonder if people are really voting their preference instead of what they do.
The part that shocks me isn't the pvp only votes, that's about where I thought it would be. The part that shocks me is the both group. I thought both would be equal to pve only or even ahead of it. Most people I talk to do a little of both. I wonder if people are really voting their preference instead of what they do.
I think you are correct, it is hard to belive that many players do not do any pvp.
17% of pvp only is not surprising at all.
I think you are correct, it is hard to belive that many players do not do any pvp.
17% of pvp only is not surprising at all.
Not hard to believe at all we had 40+ in our guild at one time and only 2 of them PvP'd at all (even in GG everyone sat out of PvP we detest it that much)
I don't PvP very often, as most people who do it regularly are the ones I am pitted against. It is a fun feature though and I recommend enriching your NW experience by jumping in regularly. I do feel that adding Tenacity really killed build variety and nullified many previously used gear sets. Thankfully I hadn't yet wasted much of my time or money building them! PvP feels much too beta to me, so I will stick with the PvE activities until my characters have nothing else to achieve and/or the PvP systems get some serious development.
A thought concerning balancing efforts within NW: When some part of a game does not perform up to expectations, you don't nerf other aspects to 'cover' the problem. When some feature seems to outperform others, you don't strip it of its effectiveness, you bring other aspects of the game up to that standard. I am unhappy with the rounds of nerfing that has been going on(and planned). I feel that these nerfs are a lazy way out of an obvious need to buff some characters, powers and items in NW.
Just my nickle's worth.
Agreed. I will never play a game's PvP if it has special gear with a special 'PvP stat'. The concept is lame, and only there to make you grind more, Rather than promote fun and ease of access.
The Stat concept ruined MMO PvP for me. PVE all the way,
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
. . . I'll probably end up indulging in some IWD pvp at some point as open world pvp is the only type of "fantasy-style" pvp that I have ever enjoyed (UO, Shadowbane, EVE, etc.). I only like matchmaking, lobby, or moba style pvp in my RTS or FPS games. Other than the rare indulgence persuaded by friends, I'm here for the PvE, RP, Lore, and Foundry.
chromaticwyrmMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited July 2014
Pvp here is very skewed I used to post 60 but I hit 60, a fresh 60 no T2 gear and the que pitted me against people with perfects and 16k gs so post 60 I DON'T Pvp unless the devs fix that I won't be 10k vs 16k is a world of difference even the most amazing pvp'er (which I am not) can't compete
Devs/GMs/etc: Pay attention to this poll! This is important! The PvP crowd might be the noisiest of the players when talking about what they want or don't want, but the majority of the game is NOT here for that. Keep the focus where it belongs: PvE, and the D&D/Forgotten Realms setting.
Cryptic goes be player activiety in the game and makes content around that. If they are making more pvp content then there is a large playerbase that is active in pvp.
Cryptic goes be player activiety in the game and makes content around that. If they are making more pvp content then there is a large playerbase that is active in pvp.
According to this poll there are approximately 4 times as many exclusive PvEers than exclusive PvPers, with a sample size of 215 so far.
If I were PW I know what content I would be focusing on.
According to this poll there are approximately 4 times as many exclusive PvEers than exclusive PvPers, with a sample size of 215 so far.
If I were PW I know what content I would be focusing on.
One poll doesn't reflect the entire playerbase, as a only a small fraction of players actually go to the forums for any game. I been down this road with Cryptic before with STO. They go by what players are doing in the game and use internal metric numbers.
Id imagine there are more people doing quests and running instances than there are people doing pvp events which is typical of most MMOs. If they really wanted pvp, they probably would have played a pvp centric game like Dark Falls
One poll doesn't reflect the entire playerbase, as a only a small fraction of players actually go to the forums for any game. I been down this road with Cryptic before with STO. They go by what players are doing in the game and use internal metric numbers.
Most polls that are centered around actual statistical figures are done by small groups. They didn't weigh every fat person in the US to come up with the numbers that: the US is the fattest county in the world.
Most polls that are centered around actual statistical figures are done by small groups. They didn't weigh every fat person in the US to come up with the numbers that: the US is the fattest county in the world.
Yes but they try to come up with random sampling, people choosing to participate on a poll that happened to visit the forums that day is not a random sample. Forum polls are interesting, but they shouldn't be taken for the absolute truth, there is a large margin for error with them.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited July 2014
Considering the amount of PvP crybabies on the forums you'd think the results would be different. I guess this just further goes to show who cries the loudest.
What the poll does show is that a majority of forum users are PvE only players. For actual statistics you would need to see the same numbers as Cryptic does for usage, spending, etc. Those numbers we will never see. That being said, it would be nice "if" the poll numbers had some reflection in reality.
Most polls that are centered around actual statistical figures are done by small groups. They didn't weigh every fat person in the US to come up with the numbers that: the US is the fattest county in the world.
My point is, it doesn't really matter what forum polls say or who is crying the most in a post. Cryptic is in it to make money, if pvp players are very active in game or spending the most money that is who they focus content for. STO is a pve game, pvp has been ingored since launch, they have causual pve players that drops loads of money on lockboxes and thats the focus of content in STO is to cater to them. Icewind Dale expanded pvp because its profitable to provide more content in that area according to the metrics they use.
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited July 2014
PvP PvE PvM RP LMNOP.... I got lost in letters there.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I am not surprised about this poll results. Who dont have teeth dont eat. Easy as that. Percentuage are probably accurated and show that 2 upon 10 people only pvp but that is impossibile because boons are pve and money has to be made so it probably is larger. So until now we can say: 1/5 of the game population would leave without pvp content. I sure would.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
...1/5 of the game population would leave without pvp content. I sure would.
And would the game be 1) better off or 2) worse off as a result?
No more ranting *****wavers in zone chat, no more nerfs that ruin things for the pve majority because some pvpers are getting rolled by the class-of-the-day, a lot fewer cheaters and exploiters, since so many of those (like the recent command line fiasco) are firmly based in pvpers trying to get the edge over everyone else... yeah, I could do without pvp in this game.
Comments
No, a lot of ppl complained because CW is OP in PvE, also it's the only class being asked for everything (and GWF maybe), they have a lot of AoE, huge CC and are 1st in the DPS charts, they are the only class requested while the TR/GF (and HR sometimes) are sitting in a corner waiting for the charity slot in a party, that's OK for you?, Why don't give a chance to the other classes?, or for you is OK that there is only 1 class able to take care of those hundreds of adds in dungeons and skirmishes with not even the help of a "Tank" or a Cleric making all other classes useless?.
However there are changes coming in Mod 4, I hope they are going in the right direction.
A lot of ppl complained?? Allow me to doubt that. Of course there is always some frustrated player complaining about everything. If you think a CW is OP in PvE make one. If you think a GWF or TR is OP in PvP make one, and so on. It is rather childish to accuse certain class to be OP and ask for a nerf. When I started to play I did some PVP and I saw that -in that time-the TR was the god of PVP but instead of coming here crying asking for a nerf I made a TR myself.
What you say about the CW being the only class requested in PvE parties is just plain nonsens. Some classes might be more needed than others depending on the dungeon but this is not the fault of the CW's. Some classes -like the DC and GF could use some improvement for PvE.
The problem is the struggle between PvE and PvP. Some classes are good at PvE and others are better at PvP. If you are not happy whith your class ask for an improvement. Asking for a nerf of a particular class is just pathetic.
Greetings
Main suggestion would to get rid of root items for pvp period. There is no skill involved in failing a save.
On a last note please restrict the amount of instances on open pvp lands. Your watering down the amount players.
1. Asking for a nerf isn't pathetic for an OP class, lol, what if the GF class were the 1st in DPS, the 1st in AOE, the 1st in CC and 1st in survivability?, do you think a "Tank" class can have all those things?, nope?, well, I think the same, the difference between you and me is that I think that a CONTROL wizard shouldn't be able to do that too, they are not a striker class, they supposedly shouldn't be 1st in Damage, they should be 1st in Control.
2. I didn't said it was CW's fault, when and where did I say that?...
3. You say: "What you say about the CW being the only class requested in PvE parties is just plain nonsens"... Do you play this game?, you need to enter and see cause I can't belive you don't know about this... see the LFG Channel and tell me how often someone says that he need a HR/TR/GF v/s a CW (in lvl 60 parties)... I would bet anything you want that the ppl LFM CW exceeds by at least 5 times the sum of the LFM for the other 3 classes I mentioned before.
I came here because it's D&D, and because there is Foundry. Alas, Foundry is ignored by most because of the lack of reward.
If they would revamp the Foundry reward system to put it near or on par with the pvp reward system, the game would dramatically change, and I think it would be a change for the better.
I am sure Cryptic has it's own statistics, but this should be a good reminder not to compromise PvE experience for the sake of very small PvP minority.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
The part that shocks me isn't the pvp only votes, that's about where I thought it would be. The part that shocks me is the both group. I thought both would be equal to pve only or even ahead of it. Most people I talk to do a little of both. I wonder if people are really voting their preference instead of what they do.
I think you are correct, it is hard to belive that many players do not do any pvp.
17% of pvp only is not surprising at all.
Not hard to believe at all we had 40+ in our guild at one time and only 2 of them PvP'd at all (even in GG everyone sat out of PvP we detest it that much)
That's probably not surprising if you primarily associate with like minded people.
Agreed. I will never play a game's PvP if it has special gear with a special 'PvP stat'. The concept is lame, and only there to make you grind more, Rather than promote fun and ease of access.
The Stat concept ruined MMO PvP for me. PVE all the way,
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Cryptic goes be player activiety in the game and makes content around that. If they are making more pvp content then there is a large playerbase that is active in pvp.
According to this poll there are approximately 4 times as many exclusive PvEers than exclusive PvPers, with a sample size of 215 so far.
If I were PW I know what content I would be focusing on.
One poll doesn't reflect the entire playerbase, as a only a small fraction of players actually go to the forums for any game. I been down this road with Cryptic before with STO. They go by what players are doing in the game and use internal metric numbers.
Most polls that are centered around actual statistical figures are done by small groups. They didn't weigh every fat person in the US to come up with the numbers that: the US is the fattest county in the world.
My point is, it doesn't really matter what forum polls say or who is crying the most in a post. Cryptic is in it to make money, if pvp players are very active in game or spending the most money that is who they focus content for. STO is a pve game, pvp has been ingored since launch, they have causual pve players that drops loads of money on lockboxes and thats the focus of content in STO is to cater to them. Icewind Dale expanded pvp because its profitable to provide more content in that area according to the metrics they use.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
And would the game be 1) better off or 2) worse off as a result?
No more ranting *****wavers in zone chat, no more nerfs that ruin things for the pve majority because some pvpers are getting rolled by the class-of-the-day, a lot fewer cheaters and exploiters, since so many of those (like the recent command line fiasco) are firmly based in pvpers trying to get the edge over everyone else... yeah, I could do without pvp in this game.