Some of the earlier comments on this thread gave me the following impressions. Stealth builds are highly ineffective in pve, and rogues build for PVP will suck at PVE content and this is one of the reasons no one wants to take a TR on a dungeon run.
Firstly, how TRs are viewed is not going to change anytime soon. This is mainly because outside of TRs, we have 2 more dps CWs/GWFs, classes which feels entitled due to being recipients of greater benefits since gear inflation. They are outright dps classes, just point and click. They are what's deemed the "effective" classes, and they set the bar.
Players won't understand what stealth does for TR if they have never played one. Even amongst TRs, there are extremists who either go all stealth or no stealth, being rather inflexible to content. But despite being shunned by dungeon parties, TR is still one of if not the most popular class picked for starters, and it's going to take them a while to understand and make effective builds. None of these are helping the TR's reputation. In truth, their perception is not wrong, all anyone hears about is how perma is the only viable option, newcomers will all seek out perma guides, majority of which pvp based, and they follow the guides with inflexibility.
You keep saying how effective you are, but for the reasons above, every one of you I encounter, I will likely encounter 10 more ineffective TRs by comparison.
If my impressions are completely off base i apologize. Min/max'ing for pve/pvp will no doubt make you slightly better at one or the other. But I see no reason you can't build for both, keep perma-stealth as an option and switch out gear/powers according to if your soloing content, clearing a dungeon with a group, or pvp'ing. This is what I have always done.
Stealth is the class feature/mechanic of TRs, it does much for them, uninterrupted dps, higher crit severity, AP generation. I have personally recommended taking stealth feats over feats that directly increase damage to combat TRs to improve effectiveness. Now what happens when a perma swaps combat encounters while soloing pve? They essentially becomes very similar to the previous combat TR. No good TR should disregard stealth, save for a select few niche builds.
The notion of a TR paying to get into a dungeon run is a symptom of this. In short Cw's are like pizza in a dungeon, even when they are bad they are still good(unless they just plain suck). TR's are like milk that might have exceeded it's expiration date, they might be ok, but do you really want to risk it? This is entirely because of class mechanics and not anything TR's are doing themselves.
It is one TR player. Is it a good idea to encourage it?
As bad as the situation is, yes, TRs don't have a place in dungeons when stacking well geared CWs and GWFs reduces them to a pet companion status, and as boring as some might find playing their TR compared to the CWs and GWFs, is it okay to pay someone to carry them through dungeons? It only reinforces the poor perception of the class and its players. If the TR is not your cup of tea, move on.
A much better solution will be to find players who aren't only concerned with fast runs. Others have recommended finding a pve guild or joinning legit channel, both fair solutions.
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scurvyxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
This goes far beyond Cryptic. This speaks volumes about the human scum we have wondering around this planet.
It's not about Cryptic, it's all about you all, who reported/complained on TRs back in the days and it's the same case with CWs incoming nerf. Agree that complanation is good, but once you all agreed to let Cryptic toned down on your hated class, please don't whine/blame on the consequences that you asked for because it's nothing but just lame.
Some of the earlier comments on this thread gave me the following impressions. Stealth builds are highly ineffective in pve, and rogues build for PVP will suck at PVE content and this is one of the reasons no one wants to take a TR on a dungeon run.
If my impressions are completely off base i apologize. Min/max'ing for pve/pvp will no doubt make you slightly better at one or the other. But I see no reason you can't build for both, keep perma-stealth as an option and switch out gear/powers according to if your soloing content, clearing a dungeon with a group, or pvp'ing. This is what I have always done.
My example of a Pvorp crit CW daily was an extreme example of how a CW's POTENTIAL damage completely outclasses anything a TR has to offer. Not every cw is that well geared or has the skill to pull off consistent crit dailies. There is a huge spread of how well geared and how skilled the players are in every class. Gearing up and getting better is part of the fun of playing the game. Except it's not much fun for a TR. Because no one wants to take you on a dungeon run. Even if you gear to the max and develop your pve skills as much as possible a mediocre cw or gwf can easily outperform you. The notion of a TR paying to get into a dungeon run is a symptom of this. In short Cw's are like pizza in a dungeon, even when they are bad they are still good(unless they just plain suck). TR's are like milk that might have exceeded it's expiration date, they might be ok, but do you really want to risk it? This is entirely because of class mechanics and not anything TR's are doing themselves.
I'd rather just some some dailies and mini dungeons. Who wants to be in a group with CW's/GWF's when all they're gonna do is step on each others toes in their battle for Paingiver.
Couple of nights ago, we were going through the Epic Dread Vault and the only way we could get past the mini-bosses on the way was for the TR to solo him in perma-stealth. He then told us to stay up on the hill while he cleared the 40-odd level 65 mega-illithids that had spawned. otherwise, we would have all died in less than a minute.
My DO's gear score was more than 14k, the Guardian had 12.5k, the TR had about 13k and the other two were about 11 or 12. The dungeon is supposed to be 8.3k.
Anyone who won't let a particular class join is a tosser. It is such a dreadful shame that the game actually encourages that sort of behaviour.
There has also been a tendency for Kick Votes in the Dread Ring recently just because some players have a lower GS. I always vote NO as I had HAMSTER gear when I first hit level 60, with about 9k GS and only one Artifact.
I was in VT the other night and I am perma spec, we were on the last boss and after the third attempt I was kicked from the group and told I don't do enough damage at this point in the dungeon I was sitting above 4mil and was kicked. I tried looking up what a TR's damage should be in VT and could not find a straight answer.
Because CW's refuse to use IT for CC during mob pulls I was reduced to SB for CC and even then unless I am using WOB POB I am not going to see allot of damage. POB is useless to me because I have to break stealth to cast it and then there goes my dps once again. Is 4mil + low because in perspective to the 10 to 12 mil the cw's were doing and the 9mil the GWF was doing its hard to tell my self I was doing a good job.
Also when I have used the Q for VT I have been kicked simply for being a TR. . . To be honest the game mechanics for Valindra do make it pretty hard to want to have a TR in there its not like MC or CN where ther TR can just stand there and build up and stack crits you have to chase her around its really frustrating.
How about you start your own MC/VT groups, that way when scrubs whine about what class you're using, you can kick them and invite someone else.
I did this on my GF and nobody ever told me "I'm not running with your GF/TR, bye".
matter of fact i was doing that to begin with and
it works sometimes but not worth the effort.
from 4 people one will leave 100% and that one will pull one more
i dont care much if someone leaves but if it is happening all the time
its so frustrating i rather not do it .
i play this game for fun and if its not fun i aint doing it
and lfg with a tr is no fun eather way you do it.
and btw i rather pay 30k to join dungeon easy then to make and break a group for 30 min
How about you start your own MC/VT groups, that way when scrubs whine about what class you're using, you can kick them and invite someone else.
I did this on my GF and nobody ever told me "I'm not running with your GF/TR, bye".
people dont say nothing they just leave
just ask yourself if u join a party and only tr was in it would you feel good
and answer is the same NO.
SO some will stay some will leave but everyone is going to be disapointed lol
I was in VT the other night and I am perma spec, we were on the last boss and after the third attempt I was kicked from the group and told I don't do enough damage at this point in the dungeon I was sitting above 4mil and was kicked. I tried looking up what a TR's damage should be in VT and could not find a straight answer.
Because CW's refuse to use IT for CC during mob pulls I was reduced to SB for CC and even then unless I am using WOB POB I am not going to see allot of damage. POB is useless to me because I have to break stealth to cast it and then there goes my dps once again. Is 4mil + low because in perspective to the 10 to 12 mil the cw's were doing and the 9mil the GWF was doing its hard to tell my self I was doing a good job.
Also when I have used the Q for VT I have been kicked simply for being a TR. . . To be honest the game mechanics for Valindra do make it pretty hard to want to have a TR in there its not like MC or CN where ther TR can just stand there and build up and stack crits you have to chase her around its really frustrating.
If up against 2 CWS and a GWF, I'll say 4mil+ is a decent showing. TR with high movement and deft strike slotted to chase Val and caskets is pretty valuable, if the team is borderline from beating or losing to Val. So is a GF with lunging strike and into the fray. Val frequently usee a non targetted aoe that can disrupt your stealth rotation, and with a gwf in party, you will get AOES around her making perma useless, staying perma is not the best strategy for Val, deft strike for movement, LB for claw, SB for the final phase when it gets messy is how I do Val with my TR. It's more about teamwork against Val, especially rescuing each other from claw and getting the caskets.
Ultimately, most pugs are accustomed to CWs/GWFs, that they don't play well with a TR or GF in VT. You'll be surprise what percentage of the game population thinks it's impossible to beat Val with a rainbow party including a DC, a GF and a TR. Most even think with just GF and DC in party, it's a guaranteed fail. But if a team knows the strengths of their classes, it's quite possible. I have beaten Val in a legit channel formed party with TR, GF and DC in a rainbow party.
Bottomline, TRs should not pay anyone for the reason to get into dungeon parties.
It only reinforces people's perception of the class, and encourages them to not take TRs unless 'you pay me'.
When a TR starts spamming to pay people for parties, it makes the situation worse, and makes other TRs (like myself) who are still passionate about the class have an even harder time to find parties.
That said, the class making TRs so useless is the same that makes us excel: The GF/GWF. This class is played so horribly wrong by so many people, TRs hardly get the chance to do damage. If they -and these effing annoying 2G defenders- would stop knocking back every mob you're trying to kill, maybe they'd actually see the use of DPS over knockback.
It does not matter to them. The only DPS they want to see is their own, their name on paingiver. They slot the same encounters in pvp and pve regardless of team situations. People think they are good when they see themselves on paingiver. Sadly, no, they are inexperienced. Especially annoying when some mini boss can be knocked around and it ends up taking longer to kill.
A lot of TR's problem, besides the endless massive soul-crushing nerfs(Veldrin used to do more damage in dungeons in open beta with horrid gear and specced Scoundrel than he does today in Swash/DL weapons/Rank 6 & 7s/stone at 15k GS before them), is the design of multiplayer content, especially most epic dungeons. Endless waves of pointless trash we have no good way of taking care of, so of course people look at paingiver and think 'lol TRs suck'. It's frustrating, especially since Paingiver is so useless.
Here, have an example. Not too long ago on a DK run with some people who were geared at a similar level to me, I checked the Paingiver chart going into the boss, and was unsurprisingly in a party with no DC or GF at the bottom of the Paingiver chart. After the boss, I checked again, and had moved up to 2nd. First was, of course, a GWF who had also focused on the boss. Just looking at the final number or the number going into the boss tells you nothing at all about where and when I was useful.
TR just isn't matched to the content. Which is fine, but we no longer perform our primary group function well enough to truly outweigh other classes, especially not the current GWF. They really need to take that 'different effects on NPCs and players' thing they've got going now on preview and apply it to buffing our NPC damage back up. (And stop nerfing every other class to our level, FFS, that's not helping anyone.) Or buff it universally and make stealth break on players, either completely or visible while actively hitting.
We don't offer much control, Smoke Bomb is about it and you can only get Dazing Strike to hit its three target max if you do it into a Sing grouping or while visible and getting mobbed. Blitz and Path of the Blade are our AoE damage; but neither is really all that great. Whirlwind of Blades is good, but a daily, and we really don't gain AP all that fast. Our single target is good, of course, but usually slow to get off(Dazing, DF), on a long recharge(LB), or very easily negated(Basically everything). Duelist's Flurry is very slow to get off, doesn't lock until the third hit, and is ruined all the time by knockback from GF/GWF. Don't get me started on Lashing Blade and having it not hit because of knockback. I hate Fighters because of it. X3
Sadly there's no easy fix. They won't change the content, they have never buffed us ever and won't start now, and peoples' attitudes are unlikely to change. Permas keep giving us a bad name and PvE-ruining nerfs. PvPers are basically stuck with Perma because poor damage and poor survivability pretty much force their hand.
I don't even want to think about that stealth rework they've mentioned.
Bottomline, TRs should not pay anyone for the reason to get into dungeon parties.
It only reinforces people's perception of the class, and encourages them to not take TRs unless 'you pay me'.
When a TR starts spamming to pay people for parties, it makes the situation worse, and makes other TRs (like myself) who are still passionate about the class have an even harder time to find parties.
not realy if it stays as it is trs will die out from pve and from pvp eventualy.
in 6 months there is not going to be a single tr in a dungeon.
not because people wont take them in legit channel
but who wants to roll a gimp class
The current situation is not new, if the TR was to die out, it would have happened 6 months ago.
Unfortunately, TRs are continuously being rolled as a popular class for new comers, and they continue to end up trying to find groups when they hit 60 with frustration.
It is definately annoying trying to get dungeons with a TR. Although by the sounds of it I might get dungeons a little more often than most TR's.
I ran a MC yesterday with a pug group from LFG. 2 CW, 1 GWF, 1 DC and my TR. One CW had a 16k GS, the other 3 were in the 14k-15k range and my TR had 13.8 (sorry I didn't look to see enchants or anything)
I forgot to check the stats at the end but right before Malabog the paingiver chart was as follows:
CW ~ 12 million
GWF ~ 7.5 million
CW ~ 6 million
TR ~ 4.5 million
DC ~ 1.2 million
For me running a non standard build with the only AOE being my daily I feel that I did well more than my fair share of the damage. My build is also still running way to much crit strike that still needs to be changed for power.
Its not even that we cant do that much damage, its just that we are often not given the chance.
The current situation is not new, if the TR was to die out, it would have happened 6 months ago.
Unfortunately, TRs are continuously being rolled as a popular class for new comers, and they continue to end up trying to find groups when they hit 60 with frustration.
best armor for pve tr is profound.
so when they hit 60 they can start to pvp all the time
for 2 months to get 2 aritfacts and full set
there is no such thing as pve tr just fakes
pve tr-dead
and yeah if pve tr doesnt have profound its like cw not having high vizier
a joke
best armor for pve tr is profound.
so when they hit 60 they can start to pvp all the time
for 2 months to get 2 aritfacts and full set
there is no such thing as pve tr just fakes
pve tr-dead
and yeah if pve tr doesnt have profound its like cw not having high vizier
a joke
ah now i know whats happened to pve trs
they are stuck farming profound gear so no time for dungeon hehe
best armor for pve tr is profound.
so when they hit 60 they can start to pvp all the time
for 2 months to get 2 aritfacts and full set
there is no such thing as pve tr just fakes
pve tr-dead
and yeah if pve tr doesnt have profound its like cw not having high vizier
a joke
I'm sure it's actually possible for this to be more wrong and ludicrous, but I'm having trouble seeing how.
Best PvE TR armor barring the occasional stealth-based build is still Swashbuckling Captain. The damage-focused builds all use Swash because not using it is like GWF without AoW. Dat Power/Recovery set bonus.
I actually am working on Profound Executioner right now, but that's mostly so it will be less annoying when I find myself PvPing. :P (Same reason I carry around a pair of regen rings since my PvE gear gives me 0 regen and it's helpful to have some in PvP.)
I'm sure it's actually possible for this to be more wrong and ludicrous, but I'm having trouble seeing how.
Best PvE TR armor barring the occasional stealth-based build is still Swashbuckling Captain. The damage-focused builds all use Swash because not using it is like GWF without AoW. Dat Power/Recovery set bonus.
I actually am working on Profound Executioner right now, but that's mostly so it will be less annoying when I find myself PvPing. :P (Same reason I carry around a pair of regen rings since my PvE gear gives me 0 regen and it's helpful to have some in PvP.)
And nah, PvE TR is neither fake nor dead.
Swash is a set for pvp tr's who wants to do some pve, proufund gives +463 crit, and if you go for 2/2 you get +926 crit that will get you to a value of 3600 or so (you are going to need also set bonus from blades ofc) and high DEX+crit is the basis for a pve TR
Swash is a set for pvp tr's who wants to do some pve, proufund gives +463 crit, and if you go for 2/2 you get +926 crit that will get you to a value of 3600 or so (you are going to need also set bonus from blades ofc) and high DEX+crit is the basis for a pve TR
Are you aware that the diminishing returns for the crit stat spikes above 2500? It's a bad idea to overstack crit. Put it into power instead (PvE) or a defensive stat (PvP).
Are you aware that the diminishing returns for the crit stat spikes above 2500? It's a bad idea to overstack crit. Put it into power instead (PvE) or a defensive stat (PvP).
I'm sure it's actually possible for this to be more wrong and ludicrous, but I'm having trouble seeing how.
Best PvE TR armor barring the occasional stealth-based build is still Swashbuckling Captain. The damage-focused builds all use Swash because not using it is like GWF without AoW. Dat Power/Recovery set bonus.
I actually am working on Profound Executioner right now, but that's mostly so it will be less annoying when I find myself PvPing. :P (Same reason I carry around a pair of regen rings since my PvE gear gives me 0 regen and it's helpful to have some in PvP.)
Can anyone explain to me why people choose to do MC 2/3 instead of 3/3? The last boss is one of the easiest bosses out there, doable with people under 10k, with (almost) no trash.
Can anyone explain to me why people choose to do MC 2/3 instead of 3/3? The last boss is one of the easiest bosses out there, doable with people under 10k, with (almost) no trash.
Can anyone explain to me why people choose to do MC 2/3 instead of 3/3? The last boss is one of the easiest bosses out there, doable with people under 10k, with (almost) no trash.
does it seem this the place to ask it? really..try to answer
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
i will take your apology
and you are dead if u dont have profound coz u dont have best pve armor
Swash is better for PvE, Swash will give 1014 power = 6% more damage over base at all times in combat (and recovery).
While the profound will give 7.5% but only in invis. The 30% more invis is useless in PvE because all the rotations will break invis after one or two DFs + encounter.
PvE TR will be not in invis at least half the time because lashing/wr/smoke/dazing break invis.
The link shows maximum hit and not overall DPS and for maximum 7.5% is higher but that not what you want.. you want overall higher DPS.
Show ACT runs with each one or ACT of average damage over many hits (more than 200) and you can conclude something, screenshots of lashing is not...
It was discussed many times, you can see Kaelecs guide with graphs, several threads with spreadsheets and more about crit vs power, bottom line that even with perfect vorpal, purple blade, and racial bonus and class bonuses to crit severity like deadly momentum and critical overrun,
for 5500 power, 2500 crit is optimal.
only for 10500 power, 3000 crit is optimal
and for 3600 crit you will need 17k power to have optimal DPS... not something you can achieve..
Power is the base of PvE TR, not crit. Crit has one of the worst DRs in the game and easly overshadowed by first ArP and then Power even for high critical severity.
If you want more detailed explanation write your power, crit, crit severity, and what vorpal you have if any (and if you MI Executioner - with critical overrun) and i will screen shot the numbers appropriate for you.
any top pve tr should have a human
and for them best sets are stealth based
even skulker beats swash in that case
Never saw a stealth based rotation out-dps dps rotation with lashing,dazing,blitz (/wr), unless there is a huge gear difference especially in power and weapon enchants.
Explained already in this very thread on page 5-6
Comments
Players won't understand what stealth does for TR if they have never played one. Even amongst TRs, there are extremists who either go all stealth or no stealth, being rather inflexible to content. But despite being shunned by dungeon parties, TR is still one of if not the most popular class picked for starters, and it's going to take them a while to understand and make effective builds. None of these are helping the TR's reputation. In truth, their perception is not wrong, all anyone hears about is how perma is the only viable option, newcomers will all seek out perma guides, majority of which pvp based, and they follow the guides with inflexibility.
You keep saying how effective you are, but for the reasons above, every one of you I encounter, I will likely encounter 10 more ineffective TRs by comparison.
Stealth is the class feature/mechanic of TRs, it does much for them, uninterrupted dps, higher crit severity, AP generation. I have personally recommended taking stealth feats over feats that directly increase damage to combat TRs to improve effectiveness. Now what happens when a perma swaps combat encounters while soloing pve? They essentially becomes very similar to the previous combat TR. No good TR should disregard stealth, save for a select few niche builds.
It is one TR player. Is it a good idea to encourage it?
As bad as the situation is, yes, TRs don't have a place in dungeons when stacking well geared CWs and GWFs reduces them to a pet companion status, and as boring as some might find playing their TR compared to the CWs and GWFs, is it okay to pay someone to carry them through dungeons? It only reinforces the poor perception of the class and its players. If the TR is not your cup of tea, move on.
A much better solution will be to find players who aren't only concerned with fast runs. Others have recommended finding a pve guild or joinning legit channel, both fair solutions.
It's not about Cryptic, it's all about you all, who reported/complained on TRs back in the days and it's the same case with CWs incoming nerf. Agree that complanation is good, but once you all agreed to let Cryptic toned down on your hated class, please don't whine/blame on the consequences that you asked for because it's nothing but just lame.
agree spot on
My DO's gear score was more than 14k, the Guardian had 12.5k, the TR had about 13k and the other two were about 11 or 12. The dungeon is supposed to be 8.3k.
Anyone who won't let a particular class join is a tosser. It is such a dreadful shame that the game actually encourages that sort of behaviour.
There has also been a tendency for Kick Votes in the Dread Ring recently just because some players have a lower GS. I always vote NO as I had HAMSTER gear when I first hit level 60, with about 9k GS and only one Artifact.
Well done Crapti.c
~
I did this on my GF and nobody ever told me "I'm not running with your GF/TR, bye".
Because CW's refuse to use IT for CC during mob pulls I was reduced to SB for CC and even then unless I am using WOB POB I am not going to see allot of damage. POB is useless to me because I have to break stealth to cast it and then there goes my dps once again. Is 4mil + low because in perspective to the 10 to 12 mil the cw's were doing and the 9mil the GWF was doing its hard to tell my self I was doing a good job.
Also when I have used the Q for VT I have been kicked simply for being a TR. . . To be honest the game mechanics for Valindra do make it pretty hard to want to have a TR in there its not like MC or CN where ther TR can just stand there and build up and stack crits you have to chase her around its really frustrating.
matter of fact i was doing that to begin with and
it works sometimes but not worth the effort.
from 4 people one will leave 100% and that one will pull one more
i dont care much if someone leaves but if it is happening all the time
its so frustrating i rather not do it .
i play this game for fun and if its not fun i aint doing it
and lfg with a tr is no fun eather way you do it.
and btw i rather pay 30k to join dungeon easy then to make and break a group for 30 min
people dont say nothing they just leave
just ask yourself if u join a party and only tr was in it would you feel good
and answer is the same NO.
SO some will stay some will leave but everyone is going to be disapointed lol
Ultimately, most pugs are accustomed to CWs/GWFs, that they don't play well with a TR or GF in VT. You'll be surprise what percentage of the game population thinks it's impossible to beat Val with a rainbow party including a DC, a GF and a TR. Most even think with just GF and DC in party, it's a guaranteed fail. But if a team knows the strengths of their classes, it's quite possible. I have beaten Val in a legit channel formed party with TR, GF and DC in a rainbow party.
It only reinforces people's perception of the class, and encourages them to not take TRs unless 'you pay me'.
When a TR starts spamming to pay people for parties, it makes the situation worse, and makes other TRs (like myself) who are still passionate about the class have an even harder time to find parties.
Here, have an example. Not too long ago on a DK run with some people who were geared at a similar level to me, I checked the Paingiver chart going into the boss, and was unsurprisingly in a party with no DC or GF at the bottom of the Paingiver chart. After the boss, I checked again, and had moved up to 2nd. First was, of course, a GWF who had also focused on the boss. Just looking at the final number or the number going into the boss tells you nothing at all about where and when I was useful.
TR just isn't matched to the content. Which is fine, but we no longer perform our primary group function well enough to truly outweigh other classes, especially not the current GWF. They really need to take that 'different effects on NPCs and players' thing they've got going now on preview and apply it to buffing our NPC damage back up. (And stop nerfing every other class to our level, FFS, that's not helping anyone.) Or buff it universally and make stealth break on players, either completely or visible while actively hitting.
We don't offer much control, Smoke Bomb is about it and you can only get Dazing Strike to hit its three target max if you do it into a Sing grouping or while visible and getting mobbed. Blitz and Path of the Blade are our AoE damage; but neither is really all that great. Whirlwind of Blades is good, but a daily, and we really don't gain AP all that fast. Our single target is good, of course, but usually slow to get off(Dazing, DF), on a long recharge(LB), or very easily negated(Basically everything). Duelist's Flurry is very slow to get off, doesn't lock until the third hit, and is ruined all the time by knockback from GF/GWF. Don't get me started on Lashing Blade and having it not hit because of knockback. I hate Fighters because of it. X3
Sadly there's no easy fix. They won't change the content, they have never buffed us ever and won't start now, and peoples' attitudes are unlikely to change. Permas keep giving us a bad name and PvE-ruining nerfs. PvPers are basically stuck with Perma because poor damage and poor survivability pretty much force their hand.
I don't even want to think about that stealth rework they've mentioned.
not realy if it stays as it is trs will die out from pve and from pvp eventualy.
in 6 months there is not going to be a single tr in a dungeon.
not because people wont take them in legit channel
but who wants to roll a gimp class
Unfortunately, TRs are continuously being rolled as a popular class for new comers, and they continue to end up trying to find groups when they hit 60 with frustration.
I ran a MC yesterday with a pug group from LFG. 2 CW, 1 GWF, 1 DC and my TR. One CW had a 16k GS, the other 3 were in the 14k-15k range and my TR had 13.8 (sorry I didn't look to see enchants or anything)
I forgot to check the stats at the end but right before Malabog the paingiver chart was as follows:
CW ~ 12 million
GWF ~ 7.5 million
CW ~ 6 million
TR ~ 4.5 million
DC ~ 1.2 million
For me running a non standard build with the only AOE being my daily I feel that I did well more than my fair share of the damage. My build is also still running way to much crit strike that still needs to be changed for power.
Its not even that we cant do that much damage, its just that we are often not given the chance.
best armor for pve tr is profound.
so when they hit 60 they can start to pvp all the time
for 2 months to get 2 aritfacts and full set
there is no such thing as pve tr just fakes
pve tr-dead
and yeah if pve tr doesnt have profound its like cw not having high vizier
a joke
ah now i know whats happened to pve trs
they are stuck farming profound gear so no time for dungeon hehe
I'm sure it's actually possible for this to be more wrong and ludicrous, but I'm having trouble seeing how.
Best PvE TR armor barring the occasional stealth-based build is still Swashbuckling Captain. The damage-focused builds all use Swash because not using it is like GWF without AoW. Dat Power/Recovery set bonus.
I actually am working on Profound Executioner right now, but that's mostly so it will be less annoying when I find myself PvPing. :P (Same reason I carry around a pair of regen rings since my PvE gear gives me 0 regen and it's helpful to have some in PvP.)
And nah, PvE TR is neither fake nor dead.
Swash is a set for pvp tr's who wants to do some pve, proufund gives +463 crit, and if you go for 2/2 you get +926 crit that will get you to a value of 3600 or so (you are going to need also set bonus from blades ofc) and high DEX+crit is the basis for a pve TR
Are you aware that the diminishing returns for the crit stat spikes above 2500? It's a bad idea to overstack crit. Put it into power instead (PvE) or a defensive stat (PvP).
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj
2500 doesn't provide enough crit
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?685171-Black-Ice-Gear-vs-T2/page2
i will take your apology
and you are dead if u dont have profound coz u dont have best pve armor
no contest even
funny how pve trs dont see that
just goes to show how dead they are
and for them best sets are stealth based
even skulker beats swash in that case
yeah, sure
Swash is better for PvE, Swash will give 1014 power = 6% more damage over base at all times in combat (and recovery).
While the profound will give 7.5% but only in invis. The 30% more invis is useless in PvE because all the rotations will break invis after one or two DFs + encounter.
PvE TR will be not in invis at least half the time because lashing/wr/smoke/dazing break invis.
The link shows maximum hit and not overall DPS and for maximum 7.5% is higher but that not what you want.. you want overall higher DPS.
Show ACT runs with each one or ACT of average damage over many hits (more than 200) and you can conclude something, screenshots of lashing is not...
It was discussed many times, you can see Kaelecs guide with graphs, several threads with spreadsheets and more about crit vs power, bottom line that even with perfect vorpal, purple blade, and racial bonus and class bonuses to crit severity like deadly momentum and critical overrun,
for 5500 power, 2500 crit is optimal.
only for 10500 power, 3000 crit is optimal
and for 3600 crit you will need 17k power to have optimal DPS... not something you can achieve..
Power is the base of PvE TR, not crit. Crit has one of the worst DRs in the game and easly overshadowed by first ArP and then Power even for high critical severity.
If you want more detailed explanation write your power, crit, crit severity, and what vorpal you have if any (and if you MI Executioner - with critical overrun) and i will screen shot the numbers appropriate for you.
Never saw a stealth based rotation out-dps dps rotation with lashing,dazing,blitz (/wr), unless there is a huge gear difference especially in power and weapon enchants.
Explained already in this very thread on page 5-6