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Official Feedback Thread: Scourge Warlock

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  • neverknight5neverknight5 Member Posts: 79
    edited August 2014
    Okay so I had my 1st 2 pvp matches at 60 with my warlock and it was not a very good experience at a low gear score. warriors could kill me in one rotation. This might be funny but I killed a wizard with a warlock but he had soulforged and killed me after.

    So I summoned a soul puppet after getting a lucky killing flames and ran behind a pillar, my soul puppet was there and he 1 v 1'd a hunter ranger, I was suprised how long he could last, my point is to give the soul puppet some control because at the moment all I see them doing is swinging their arms. Maybe a knockdown or throw in a few stuns to make them more viable for pvp so it's not the warlock doing all the work but the puppet chipping in aswell providing the warlock with some control to help finish his or her enemy.
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    guessswho9 wrote: »
    I like the shadow slip, it looks really cool.

    Any idea what the other paragon path(s) will be? I'm hoping for a Lovecraftian one.

    It's probably going to be at least another module until the SW has a 2nd paragon pact. Closest thing to Lovecraft would be a pact with some of the elder evils (Star Pact) as opposed to a pact with powerful Fey (Fey Pact).
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    So any word on making this class viable for PVP? Everything I'm reading says the class is pretty dead in the water.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So any word on making this class viable for PVP? Everything I'm reading says the class is pretty dead in the water.

    That's what I asked weeks ago then some people came in saying 'it has huge hp gain through lifesteal abilities and it has 2 whole cc skills' lol....
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • harnelharnel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So any word on making this class viable for PVP? Everything I'm reading says the class is pretty dead in the water.
    Far from it. Warlocks are extremely vulnerable to CC, but churn out so much damage that you need to kill them quickly or perma-stun them to avoid taking massive blows to your HP.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    harnel wrote: »
    Far from it. Warlocks are extremely vulnerable to CC, but churn out so much damage that you need to kill them quickly or perma-stun them to avoid taking massive blows to your HP.

    And don´t get CC'ed in front of a Warlock.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:

    Wraith's Shadow tries to target friendly characters, but fails. This results in odd behaviors with the power where sometimes I just cannot get it to work. When you trigger the second time it would be nice if it did more damage on creatures immune to control effects like immobilize.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So having crawled to 60 at last and started tinkering in the Epic zones I have some more general feedback.
    We are happy to unleash the Warlock upon all the foes who set upon the denizens of Neverwinter! The Warlock is a powerful spellcaster who leverages his dark bargain with his patron to decimate foes with Necrotic and Fire damage. Warlocks have access to the Hellbringer Paragon Path, and 3 Paragon feat trees; Fury, Damnation, and Temptation.

    FEEDBACK
    Overall Play: Basically the Warlock struggles to generate enough DPS to really feel like they are "a powerful spellcaster who leverages his dark bargain with his patron to decimate foes". It is very close, the right combinations of powers can certainly create an effective character but after playing every other class to 60 the Warlock as a DPS class just feels a little shy of the goals, and if the goal is not a DPS class then its definitely missing the mark.

    Feat Trees: After some tinkering I feel that the only solo play viable tree is the Damnation tree. The Soul Puppet just gives enough of a boost to DPS to allow the sort of experience I am familiar with from playing the other classes. The problem is that I expect in Dungeons the Soul Puppet will be very ineffective and then the character will drop significantly in effectiveness as well.

    I would say the Feat Trees are the main thing that needs some work, a bit more DPS buffs in Fury to trade of the lower survivability for example.


    Game Play: The class is twitchy and finicky, not a good beginners class. With powers that vary in effect considerably based on timing of the Curse it is one of the harder classes to maximize the effectiveness of compared to say the HR or GWF. This makes things harder to evaluate in a short period of time as well. I would say the class feels distinct from the other classes available to play, which is good. The fact that some powers do "A" without a Curse and "B" with a Curse, while other powers do not interact with the curse at all really, and other powers do "A" with or without a curse but "B" if the curse is applied after the powers adds to the classes complexity as it doesn't have a clear strategy for play all the time.

    Yes for experienced MMO players there are probably no issues, but for new MMO players who go "that sounds cool" on reading the fluff the class is noticeably more complicated than others.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    That's what I asked weeks ago then some people came in saying 'it has huge hp gain through lifesteal abilities and it has 2 whole cc skills' lol....

    For the amount of sheer dmg it can do and the fact its a ranged class that can place itself in high overhead vantage points it dosent need more then 2 CC and the fact its self sustain is neer flawless thanks to its lifesteal boosting feats coupled with the fact most if not all its dmg is necrotic dmg. The class will be fine in pvp if people know how to get on cliffs take advantage of the allies cc skills and use there own basically be smart and have awareness the class is fine.

    Other then that there far more important things wrong with this class then its lack of CC skill and if it did have great CC people would just call for nerf you see what they did to CW
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • azyrnazyrn Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    When did they change the Warlock primary stats? It is now CHA, with INT and CON as secondary.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    azyrn wrote: »
    When did they change the Warlock primary stats? It is now CHA, with INT and CON as secondary.
    The latest patch, Friday and Saturday...

    And CHA should be it's primary honestly, not INT, so I feel it's a good change/update. :cool:
    va8Ru.gif
  • ctf4voidctf4void Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It is nice that CHA is now the primary ability, however the companion stat bonus which it provides doesn't seem to work correctly, it only gives a fraction of what the tooltip says it should give. I tested this with my ioun stone. If CHA is the primary ability it needs to work as the tooltip says.

    I still feel that the dps could be higher, especially the weapon damage. If the SW is supposed to be a dps class, then why does it have so much less weapon damage compared to the GWF?
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    ctf4void wrote: »
    It is nice that CHA is now the primary ability, however the companion stat bonus which it provides doesn't seem to work correctly, it only gives a fraction of what the tooltip says it should give. I tested this with my ioun stone. If CHA is the primary ability it needs to work as the tooltip says.

    I still feel that the dps could be higher, especially the weapon damage. If the SW is supposed to be a dps class, then why does it have so much less weapon damage compared to the GWF?

    I believe cause are skills do a mondo amount of tootip dmg that's why the weapon dmg is on the low end and cuas we have alot of proc effects for trees like the fury line.
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No... The Scourge Warlock's primary stat is Con. Deceptive Warlock's primary is Cha.

    Devs, wat u doin? Devs, stahp!
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback : SW have now unfair disadvantage aganst HR CW they both ignore all our defensive mechanism.
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ctf4void wrote: »
    It is nice that CHA is now the primary ability, however the companion stat bonus which it provides doesn't seem to work correctly, it only gives a fraction of what the tooltip says it should give. I tested this with my ioun stone. If CHA is the primary ability it needs to work as the tooltip says.

    I still feel that the dps could be higher, especially the weapon damage. If the SW is supposed to be a dps class, then why does it have so much less weapon damage compared to the GWF?

    Charisma hardly functions at all properly. The Combat Advantage bonuse charisma gives does not work AT ALL! Not one bit.

    Infact combat advantage bonus from all sources (besides a few artifacts that give a flat number) arent working.
  • ctf4voidctf4void Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ctf4void wrote: »
    It is nice that CHA is now the primary ability, however the companion stat bonus which it provides doesn't seem to work correctly, it only gives a fraction of what the tooltip says it should give. I tested this with my ioun stone. If CHA is the primary ability it needs to work as the tooltip says.?

    I did some further testing and found two things out: First of all, the companion stat bonus only applies to the stats your companion has when it wears no gear and no enchantments. The stats granted by enchantments and gear of your companion will not get boosted by CHA. This is somewhat disappointing and if it is true what someone else wrote about combat advantage bonus not working, then putting points into CHA will be only relevant for the additional critical chance. If you don't plan to use a vorpal enchantment for your SW, it looks like focusing on CON and INT is the best option.

    The other thing I found out is that some gear doesn't give even half of the stats it should to my ioune stone of allure (It was Xvim gear).
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well if CHA isn't giving Combat Advantage Damage it would be REALLY nice if that was fixed ASAP.
    va8Ru.gif
  • voltomeyvoltomey Member Posts: 1,052 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    couatl13 wrote: »
    No... The Scourge Warlock's primary stat is Con. Deceptive Warlock's primary is Cha.

    Devs, wat u doin? Devs, stahp!

    Cha gives crit wich is the most important state for SW Cha is a best primary they just need to fix it
    Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ctf4void wrote: »
    The other thing I found out is that some gear doesn't give even half of the stats it should to my ioune stone of allure (It was Xvim gear).

    Raw stats or set bonus?

    Companions do not receive the set bonus (from any set) nor do augments convey that bonus to the summoner. I believe that many months ago this was stated to be WAI.
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • jazzfongjazzfong Member Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    voltomey wrote: »
    Cha gives crit wich is the most important state for SW Cha is a best primary they just need to fix it

    IMO, the most important stat is recovery instead of crit. 10s cd vs 15s cd at 33% RSI gives a more stable damage chart than stacking 33% crit. 33% RSI is quite achievable from feats, enchants and artifacts. You can try slotting silveries r8 and water + BCRS and spam more high cd power like dreadtheft, your ACT should give a better damage value than overstacking crit.

    EDIT: Weapon damage doesn't crit. So higher attack frequency boost your weapon damage dealed until it surpasses the unstable crit damage pattern.
  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    voltomey wrote: »
    Cha gives crit wich is the most important state for SW Cha is a best primary they just need to fix it

    Sure, but in 4.0 D&D PnP it's Con for Scourge. I realize PnP and MMO are two different beasts altogether... But it's things like this that makes me twitch and lament the fact that I can't find any PnP groups close by.
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Well if CHA isn't giving Combat Advantage Damage it would be REALLY nice if that was fixed ASAP.

    Combat Advantage bonus has always seemed to be borked. They mentioned fixing it in mod3 but I never saw a difference. It's also why I don't know why so many CWs lament losing the renegade tree, which gives combat advantage. It's no big loss.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Combat Advantage bonus has always seemed to be borked. They mentioned fixing it in mod3 but I never saw a difference. It's also why I don't know why so many CWs lament losing the renegade tree, which gives combat advantage. It's no big loss.

    yeah its not just Charisma. But all bonuses to combat advantage do not work. Trees, feats, features, they all dont actually add anything. Infact some bonus's lower your combat advantage (such as the Blink dog active ability). The only ones that work are the ones that add combat advantage as a static value (like high tiered artifacts) instead of %.

    This shows something is actually wrong with the Combat Advantage formula.
  • crystal892fcrystal892f Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I just had an idea on how to improve the control of the Soul Puppet.
    It seems to attack the nearest target. But, i.e., in PvP you rather want the Soul Puppet to attack / distract a CW in the back, not the GWF up front.
    So I think the Soul Puppet could be nicely controlled via the target lock: Ctrl, by default. Even one little press should make the Puppet go and attack the locked target.

    Oh, and it would also really help the Puppets utility, if it would move a bit faster.
    Also: please indicate via a buff icon on the summoning SW or Soul Puppet the damage increasing stacks (max. 5 stacks * 20% damage increase). As of right now, there is no indication of how many stacks of bonus damage the Soul Puppet has gained at any given time.


    Also another thing: After playing a lot of PvP matches since the release, I can assure you that especially regarding PvP, the Shadow Sprint is just too weak of a defensive mechanic. I think most SW playing PvP can agree on that.
    That the Shadow Sprint grants CC immunity, is minimum, in my opinion. But the 30% additional damage resistance is just too weak. What use has a so-called defensive mechanic, if I can still get hit for 10k+?!

    So some suggestions (not new ones - they've been mentioned already) on how to improve Shadow Sprint:
    (1) grant 100% deflection chance while sprinting, so the deflection severity (50%) handles the additional resistance
    (2) grant stealth while sprinting (it's called "Shadow Sprint", right?), so you at least can't get attacked with new attacks while sprinting
    (3) change it to a teleport / blink with full CC and damage immunity

    Personally, I'd prefer (3), but any mentioned suggestion would improve the utility of Shadow Sprint.

    Oh, and the startup animation to actually begin to sprint / levitate has a delay / takes a bit too long.
    i.e.: I see a CW doing the Chill Strike animation, I press Shift immediately, but because of the delay, the sprint doesn't begin in time and I get still CC'ed. That doesn't feel right / fair.


    PS: I hope the devs still read this thread. :D
  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    image.jpg

    Is this supposed to be normal and intended that a single daily is covering 50-60% of the damage?
    It was a CN run with bigger pulls but still.

    Which other class has this potential and dps of a daily...?

    Why has the Warlock other dailies even?
  • adent086adent086 Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    IMHO, the Warlock is a fun class to play..... BUT: It could be made a LOT better if a couple key issues were addressed.

    #1 MOST IMPORTANT: Shadow Sprint NEEDS to be fixed. Right now, imho, it is the weakest of ALL of the classes in this regard, by far. There are lots of people that are suggesting changes to how it works. Adding a 100% deflect bonus and/or making you stealth while using it all SOUND great; but lets actually get it WORKING AS INTENDED first. Because, as it stands, Shadow Sprint is just plain broken. Examples: If a monster has a jump attack (i.e. Gnolls, Werewolves, and some zombies and spiders), and it activates its very small AOE on your warlock, and you Shadow Sprint away, the following ALWAYS HAPPENS: You get hit. It doesn't matter how fast you react, it doesn't matter how far you go, you ALWAYS get hit. This NEEDS to be fixed. Pretty please with sugar on top. This is not the only example of AoE's going right through Shadow Sprint either. MOST AoE's seem to completely ignore Shadow Sprint. The game has been getting worse and worse as the modules go by about ALL AoE's not actually BEING or AFFECTING where they are showing on your screen, but the Warlock seems to be affected by this worse than any other class. (Yes, I have all classes in the game to 60 in order to make these kinds of comparisons.)

    The next thing that needs to be addressed is what others have termed: "The Warlock is an exhausting class to play."
    Simply put, they are right. Granted, all of the computer controlled enemies (especially at end game) can throw down multiple AoE's, while pulling off two other powers, while moving, and using there normal attack all in the same instant (that was a not so subtle poke at the fact that MANY end game enemies seem to be out right ignoring normal D&D mechanics as to what can be done in a single "round" now days); but we are human beings, we can't do that. MOST of the time while playing a Warlock in normal PvE, you have to be placing Curses, pulling off powers, attacking AND moving, while maintaining full situational awareness; ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Can it be done? Obviously, yes, or none of us would have Warlocks to 60. Can it be done effectively? I guess that depends on the individual player. Is it exhausting to have to do ALL of those things ALL at the same time CONSTANTLY when the other classes don't have to? Yes. Totally. At the VERY least throw Warlock's a bone and have Curses spam to nearby targets on their own simply by holding down the TAB key after you place one, or something like that.

    Anyway, those are my 2 cents. I hope they can convince the developers to make what is currently an "OK" class, into what could easily be an "Awesome" class to play. Peace out.

    P.S. My ping times to the server average between 50-80ms; so it can't be lag ALL of the time affecting the AoE's. ;)
    Telling us about upcoming content updates, and getting those updates out the door BUG-FREE, is *AWESOME*!! Know what's even *MORE* awesome? Fixing game breaking bugs (and/or undocumented "features") that have been in EXISTING content for months/years!!! Guess which one makes me want to spend money on a game much more than the other? Hint: It's the "more awesome" one.
  • cookiecrisp15cookiecrisp15 Banned Users Posts: 532 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    ok whose idea was that to give this class perma sprint with CC immunity???
  • cerberobotcerberobot Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 345
    edited August 2014
    Also another thing: After playing a lot of PvP matches since the release, I can assure you that especially regarding PvP, the Shadow Sprint is just too weak of a defensive mechanic. I think most SW playing PvP can agree on that.
    That the Shadow Sprint grants CC immunity, is minimum, in my opinion. But the 30% additional damage resistance is just too weak. What use has a so-called defensive mechanic, if I can still get hit for 10k+?!

    What ? Shadow Sprint is EXACTLY the same mechanic/buffs than GWF Sprint, but with also one more thing that the GWF doesn't have : the moment when you sprint, there is a very little jump, and it's also much MUCH more responsive than GWF Sprint.
  • cookiecrisp15cookiecrisp15 Banned Users Posts: 532 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    cerberobot wrote: »
    What ? Shadow Sprint is EXACTLY the same mechanic/buffs than GWF Sprint, but with also one more thing that the GWF doesn't have : the moment when you sprint, there is a very little jump, and it's also much MUCH more responsive than GWF Sprint.

    warlock sprint is supperior to GWF cause they can do it permanently and probly doesnt have 2 second sprint regen delay like GWF does
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