You have got to be kidding (Lion Throne)

therumancer23

I just wanted to express a certain amount of irritation over the Lion Throne having a 0% move speed. I guess it does say this if you examine it, which I didn't, because I figure the whole "+3" mount thing viewing the list is going to be accurate, after all marking items that way is done for a reason... so people don't have to examine every bloody thing in detail to find out what it does. While trivial for some people, harvesting 3000 rep was a bit of a pain due to limited time, and I feel like that time was wasted since your basically looking at all that effort to take up an inventory or bank space. As a cosmetic item it wouldn't be bad if it didn't take up your mount slot and instead operated as a general usable item, but in this form it's not even a fun toy, not to mention being misrepresented.

Now, I do understand that Cryptic is a business (I've spent a good chunk of money supporting your games, and have numerous +3 mounts available) but if I'm going to put a lot of time into an event to earn something I expect the reward to be fairly worthwhile. What's more, given this is an anniversary event, and one of the big defenses of Cryptic/PWE and it's games has been that you aren't hugely greedy or running a "pay to win" game because if you play long enough and stick around you'll get top tier stuff. So far with "Star Trek Online" this has been true as a couple times a year Cryptic gives away a top tier ship for this kind of effort, one that has parity with C-store or Lockbox ships. Following your pattern, which I have actually defended this company with compared to other FTP game managers, I figured giving away a top tier +3 mount was keeping with the pattern.

Now yes, I get the whole "let the buyer beware" thing applies, and perhaps I should be routinely paranoid before putting in effort and read all the flavor text and item descriptions (though I haven't really had to do this before with Cryptic), but I find this kind of irksome.

In a general sense, I'd also like to say that Cryptic has been going down hill recently and has made some rather dubious decisions.... and this is coming from a long time player of multiple games, who has probably put thousands of dollars (over a period of years) into your games. This little stunt is minor (more of an annoyance than anything), but I've also noticed things like how Cryptic has invalidated a lot of work and long-term play in "Star Trek Online" through the implementation of a new trait system, where you can no longer gain the benefit of all your accumulated rep traits, and instead simply gain the ability to select a few at a time in a limited number of slots. Something which makes the grinds/time a lot less worthwhile, as reps ceased to be a form of alternative advancement allowing my characters to genuinely advance in power through time and effort. The point here, and connection to the Neverwinter event is, why should I put the time and effort into your game, and conversely keep feeding you money (which I do to support the games so they will last) I really get nothing in-game for the time I'm putting in. In Neverwinter I literally just grinded out (at like 10 minutes a run) the honor of losing an inventory space to store something, assuming I don't just delete it and toss away that entire bit of work.

At least in Neverwinter, the solution is pretty obvious. Edit the thrones so they are indeed +3 mounts. Either that or re-purpose them as a device (and mark them appropriately), something you can carry around and activate like one of the summer festival water balloons or whatever. Honestly though, given Cryptic's justifications about being able to get anything through patience and time, I think the +3 mount is a better option... and I don't say this because I'm "cheap" and personally don't want to buy one, I have several. In theory being able to get a +3 mount, or purple companion (haven't seen that yet) a couple times a year is exactly the kind of thing that justifies Cryptic's business practices and demanding $25-$40 or more a pop for a ship or other item with actual in game effects (even if it's just movement speed) without being pay to win... although I'll be the first to argue that people who DO play a lot should buy things from you to support the game and it's survival.... but that's a whole different discussion.

crazymikee

You should have hovered over it before you wasted hours trying to go for it. And if you see 'throne' in something then odds are it's not going to be rolling around at 30 miles per hour

trollob

It was obvious, this is your fault.

beckylunatic

You're the first person to complain about this. Maybe it is based on your experiences in other games, but in Neverwinter they (almost) never give away stuff better than green quality unless there's a catch. My first thought was "chairs don't move"... and they don't.

I actually thought it was a good item because there was no "need" to grind for it unless you really, really wanted it.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

lazaroth666

So much bla bla bla for something that is his own fault, it takes less time reading the tooltip than farming rep for the item.

pandora1x

Didn't read.

If you expect a THRONE to move then I have some bad news.

iambecks1

It's a Throne , not a wheelchair .

angrysprite

@OP Two Words: Caveat Emptor.

LOL!!!

//done

ryugasirius

It's a frickin' THRONE!!! Horses are pretty fast, as are unicorns, tigers and dragons. Thrones are not exactly known for their speed...

oicidraz

You can just ignore the 100% of all CTA and you won't miss anything, I've doing that the last 4 months and the only 2 things that could be usefull were Tymora's Lucky Coin and Adorable Pocket Pet, but since pet can give a -5% in Threath generation I wouldn't use it in my GF, so it's just 1 item that worth to farm.

My recomentadion, next time read the tooltip or make a thread in the forum to see if it is worthy, and when you notice it's not then don't farm it.

frishter

Expecting free 110% mounts is just silly, even though I disagree with how they price things, they do need to keep the zen store items appealing.

therumancer23

crazymikee wrote: »

You should have hovered over it before you wasted hours trying to go for it. And if you see 'throne' in something then odds are it's not going to be rolling around at 30 miles per hour

My point is that I shouldn't have to read the item description, the whole point of using standardized icons like a +3 on a mount is to indicate what they do.

That said, given that this is a fantasy game, based on D&D for that matter, a flying throne or chair is not entirely unheard of, nor an unreasonable expectation as far as magical items go. Especially when you consider we have people somehow surviving immersion in gelatinous cubes and using them for transport which can't be remotely justified within the canon. The point is that anyone making arguments about "common sense" based on the name is kind of acting as a peanut gallery... at least on this point.

As far as whether it's possible to animate a flying throne in an MMO, of course it is. I had one in "The Old Republic Online" which my Sith Warrior rode around on (and no, before someone comments I'm not going to "go back to TOR" since I imagine that's a predictable response to this point, I'm just saying it's possible, and other MMOS have done it, which also reinforces that arguments about an unreasonable expectation in thrones being mobile mounts has even less weight).

That said this wasn't really directed at the player base, and yeah, I noticed few people saying something (probably out of fear of responses like this) so I figured I would. It's no big deal, but it kind of blew chips.... obviously I'm not the only person to "fall for this" going by some of the responses I got when I commented in game on it not being a mount.

To be fair I don't exactly expect anything to happen, it would be more or less unprecedented in the history of MMOs, but I figured I'd say my piece. If your happy about how things turned out, that's fine.

I'll also say (for those who don't know) Cryptic is the company that does Neverwinter, Star Trek Online, and Champions Online and was formerly responsible for the development of City Of Heroes. They were bought out by "Perfect World". My comments, comparing to other games, and so on, is using games developed and largely run by the same company, using the same business models and claims as to why the system works and is fair. In pointing to events (and changes) I'm largely talking about something created and managed by the same people. Nothing has occurred that is going to get me to leave or stop supporting Cryptic's games for the moment (I'm kind of a fan, and am invested) but at the moment I'm just giving the opinion that I do not like the directions they have been moving in, which says a lot when I've in part supported them because I liked their attitudes about how to run a FTP game if your going to embrace that model.

akemnos

therumancer23 wrote: »

My point is that I shouldn't have to read the item description, the whole point of using standardized icons like a +3 on a mount is to indicate what they do.

That said, given that this is a fantasy game, based on D&D for that matter, a flying throne or chair is not entirely unheard of, nor an unreasonable expectation as far as magical items go. Especially when you consider we have people somehow surviving immersion in gelatinous cubes and using them for transport which can't be remotely justified within the canon. The point is that anyone making arguments about "common sense" based on the name is kind of acting as a peanut gallery... at least on this point.

Actually riding Gelationous cubes is cannon in the Forgotton Realms

DND 3.5 Arms and Equipment Guide page page 85. Amulet of Ooze Riding.


As for the +3 icon all that means is it is an epic mount. It has absolutely nothing to do with speed as the +4 Legendary mounts have the same speed as the epic mounts.

beckylunatic

Colour-coding is a poor indicator of mount speed in Neverwinter, as there are now 5 colours, but still 3 speeds.

They equate colour to the imaginary stat "quality", which is an indicator of rarity and status. A purple quality throne is a fine place to park your bottom, but it still doesn't go anywhere.

therumancer23

frishter wrote: »

Expecting free 110% mounts is just silly, even though I disagree with how they price things, they do need to keep the zen store items appealing.

To address this in more detail as a separate point, understand that Cryptic manages more than one game for PWI (which bought them out) Champions, Star Trek Online, and Neverwinter are all run by the same people, and using what amounts to the same business model and theory. "Star Trek Online" and it's return from near death, which proved the validity of this strategy, is one of the biggest FTP MMO success stories there is.

"The Cryptic Attitude" which was heavily promoted is that they sell items with actual in game effects, but have also developed the game in such a way that someone who invests nothing in the game can obtain anything, either from converting in-game currencies like Dilithium, Questionite, or Astral Diamonds to paid currency (with those in-game currencies also being used to purchase high end gear and abilities, ensuring it's value, along with a harvesting cap to prevent, or at least slow, inflation), or by waiting for specific events to pass where Cryptic "seeds" the game with high end gear. To use STO for an example, as a general rule the only way to get a top tier ship with 10 console slots is to pay cryptic for It one way or another, either through Fleet Modules (to get a fleet level ship) or winning one in a Lockbox (or paying crazy amounts to buy a lockbox ship from someone who won one), however a couple of times a year Cryptic gives away top tier ships via events. Basically if you stick around you can get a high end Risian or Breen ship via the Summer and Winter events respectively. What's more they also tend to give some stuff away during the STO anniversary, and around Christmas tend to unlock one C-store item a day so anyone who logs in can claim that for their account. This pretty much ensures a pretty level playing field, someone who say drops $300 on keys to win a fancy lockbox ship isn't going to maintain a continued, substantial, advantage against players who can't afford to put anything into the game. This is "the Cryptic" method and it by and large works as the resurrection and continued success of STO demonstrates. It's also a big part of why I've been willing to pump money into their games, in part to keep them alive, and in part to encourage people to use similar models. As much as I prefer the subscription model without cash shops (I guess I'm a dinosaur) if your going to go FTP and prevent it from becoming P2W this is the way to do it, it doesn't matter what you sell
as long as some equivalent shows up for free at some point.... and as STO has showed some people will contribute to, and make games successful, even if they don't need to pay to get the best stuff. I'm an example of this myself.


I guess part of what irritates me here (if people haven't caught on) is that in Neverwinter +3 mounts actually give an advantage, allowing you to get to objectives faster in things like PVP, outrun trash mobs, and generally make the game a heck of a lot more convenient. On a lot of levels it's similar to STO ships, because at a certain point it comes down to how badly your going to overkill everything... at least in general PVE. Outside of PVP and a few specific endgame task forces it comes down to exactly what degree of insane your insane firepower is, rather than it being necessary (that said I tend to fly concept ships, as opposed to min-maxing and going for the best possible combinations of stuff and neglecting everything else, which is why the new trait system bugs me as it seems to be designed to force people to do very specific things, but that's a whole different discussion... while I could do it, and once did it, I'm generally not the person flying the escort that liquefies a squad of assimilated Negh'Var warships in less than a second with cannon volleys). Giving away top tier stuff in Neverwinter is unlikely to hurt the Zen store and getting funding for the game, and allows for the argument that the game is not "pay to win" as any player can get the same speed/gameplay advantage if they just wait long enough and keep involved. Indeed they have both the ZEN conversion option, and the option of simple patience. Companions in Neverwinter are a similar concern of course.

The point here is that I'm making my case from a somewhat wider perspective than I think some people are giving it credit for. Neverwinter was not supposed to be a pay to win game, yet none of the equalizers present in Cryptic's business practices have shown themselves. In part I'm disappointed here because I figured after a year (I mean you can't drop this stuff every 15 minutes or it WILL kill the market) I figured we were starting to see the first wave of equalization. I'm kind of disappointed to see otherwise.

Understand also, I already have +3 mounts, numerous high end STO ships (Lockbox, Fleet, and C-store), purple companions (general and Astral Diamond upgraded), and while it's been a while (like Wildstar, I can't get into the art style of CO) I have numerous gold slots in CO (lifetime subscriber) a tier 2 hover tank, numerous become devices, as well as a few costume packs and custom travel powers. I'm not rich (quite the opposite actually) I just spend my entertainment money on gaming, and I like Crypic's stuff and liked their attitude. I don't *NEED* Cryptic to give me a free +3 mount for personal use, they have already sold me a couple of them one way or another. I just find it kind of galling that they aren't doing this kind of thing anymore, when really that was one of the big things that makes Cryptic's FTP games something special comparatively (equalization). When I first saw this I kind of figured we'd finally see Cryptic balancing the books a bit, and the Anniversary was going to have the +3 mount, and new Summer Event additions would probably include a purple companion. Then nobody could argue "Neverwinter is Pay to Win" because all you have to do is wait a year (or a few months in STO) and your on the same basic terms power wise as anyone else.

That, and I do think this was sloppy implementation. I have never before been required to read a "tool tip" to figure out what someone does in this game. If someone says it's a +3 mount in it's icon, it should bloody well be one. If they wanted to make this a 0 movement speed mount it should have said +0 or something to imply that it's different. To be really honest, I probably would have grinded one anyway (I'm that kind of fan, despite what I said about inventory slots) but it's annoying.

therumancer23

akemnos wrote: »

Actually riding Gelationous cubes is cannon in the Forgotton Realms

DND 3.5 Arms and Equipment Guide page page 85. Amulet of Ooze Riding.


As for the +3 icon all that means is it is an epic mount. It has absolutely nothing to do with speed as the +4 Legendary mounts have the same speed as the epic mounts.

If your going to use this logic though, then one should argue this would be an item, not a mount, which was another point I made. It would be more "useful" if you could say stick it in a hotbar without having to take up your mount slot. The point here being that this thing is not really a "mount" at all. It's equivalent to say a collapsible fishing chair in WoW or Starwars Galaxies or whatever. With the legendary mounts they still actually go somewhere.

That said, I can't find it now, so it might just be speculation, but wasn't benefits for legendary mounts something that was supposed to be under development? Not that it much matters, as I see things it's sort of like having a lockbox ship compared to any other 10 console ship in STO, you get the advantage of flying something exotic and looking cool, but it really doesn't do all that much for you. That said, just by being designated a ship, you can fly around and blow HAMSTER up with it, and engage in functional gameplay for it's rank level. They are calling this throne a "mount" but it doesn't meet it's basic function (to enhance your movement speed). It's sort of like if Cryptic was to release an "asteroid fortress" in Star Trek Online, and then players with images of "Andromeda" or Warhammer 40k "Ork Roks" got a rude awakening when they launched one and found they couldn't move at all, and either needed GM assistance, or to wait for a slow, meandering orbit to take them back round to the space dock that they launched from.

There is a reason you mark icons in a specific way, I suppose a phrank is funny when you don't fall for it "hahaha you should have read it, let the buyer beware" but that doesn't stop it from being obnoxious. Besides, as I've mentioned elsewhere, there are other reasons for my disappointment.

At the end of the day I spent a few hours, and will just go back to riding a different +3 mount, no biggie. I still felt the need to say something as I dislike this on a number of different levels as I've explained.

theskymoves

I can't get past the fact that the OP that I wrote off with a 'tl;dr' apparently boils down to 'tl;dr'.

dragoness10

"My point is that I shouldn't have to read the item description"

UHM....

Yes, you should. You so should. It's how you get information. Devs work hard on putting in descriptions so when you read it you know what an item is all about.

:sits on her Throne, and spins around: WHEEE!

It's not like it's one of those toilets souped up with a ride on lawnmower engine. Those are funny though.

drakefriend

Oh, come on... the Throne is just here to give a fun ego boost and it does fit the bill quite well, if I may say. ^^

naicalus

So tell me, what color should the border be for the Throne to immediately indicate to you the 0% speed? Oh right, there isn't one, and the color-coding of mounts is inconsistent as hell anyway. There's a blue 110% and the cube used to be a green 80%.

Complaining that you didn't read is just ridiculous. YOU didn't read. The information is right there for your reading pleasure and education, if only you take the five seconds to look at it. I can only conclude that massive laziness or illiteracy is at fault for the several people now I've seen complaining about this.

Especially since due to datamining we've known the throne is 0% speed since before the event even hit. So uh... Pay more attention?

rashylewizz

This has got to be one of the worst complaints ever

gerbilhurdler

I agree with OP.
Throne should be an Item.
They made it a Mount so they wouldn't have to program a new sitting action tied to an Item.
Or how about you get an /emote Throne if you earn it...would make more sense, and you know they can do it just like they did with juggling emote.
The fact that it is a mount is misleading. Only useful to troll people, as if trolls needed any help.
I guess that is the type of customer they would like to show appreciation towards is trolls.

The whole event is fairly weak outside of the companion and fashion items.
Why they would put in a skirmish in Protectors Enclave is beyond me, as it seems to draw the most resources from my PC of any map in the game. Never mind with me and 4 teammates swinging away at 50 bad guys...
I guess I just expect an event set up for customer appreciation not to be a grind fest to get mediocre rewards.
How about a mount upgrade or a coal ward or something now and again. You know, things I can actually use or am grinding towards, not some new thing that you make up for me to grind towards(HurrY!Limited Time ONLY!!!).

zebular

Closing this down now. Thank you all for the provided feedback none-the-less.