If you give CWs even more control they will end up perma stunning mobs. Right now a cw can solo almost any packs that are ccable already. I fear if you gave them more it would be too much. Just change it so freeze doesnt break on damage, and that will be enough.
I think GWFs should do more damage than CWs in aoe though, because CWs have better control skills + huge debuffs. so nerf to CW damage would be welcome for me, but GWFs need to nerf their pve survivability or they will just make 5xgwf parties (or maybe a token cleric if they are undergeared)
I do agree we need dungeons and pvp maps. Not new zones with dailies that everyone will avoid like a plague after a month.
I would like to see random encounters (Wandering Monsters for instance) introduced into dungeons and zones. Rare bosses that can sometimes spawn in normal camps and drop superior loot. Things like that to allow for something to do when one doesn't feel like doing a dungeon or what not.
I would also like to see an outline of what classes are intended to do and where they should fit in in relation to eachother -- something to allow us as players to better be able to give feedback/bug reports when things go out of whack (as they are now such could have been detected and corrected earlier if proper means existed to indicate and provide feedback).
I would like to see more distinct differences between classes / roles / paragon paths / feat paths. Defender should have lots of HP and mitigation, striker should have high dmg but dies easily, controller should do lower damage (roughly between defender and striker), and healer is, well, healer. Dungeon mechanics should be made so parties without a defender / healer will fail regardlessly.
If you give CWs even more control they will end up perma stunning mobs. Right now a cw can solo almost any packs that are ccable already. I fear if you gave them more it would be too much. Just change it so freeze doesnt break on damage, and that will be enough.
I think GWFs should do more damage than CWs in aoe though, because CWs have better control skills + huge debuffs. so nerf to CW damage would be welcome for me, but GWFs need to nerf their pve survivability or they will just make 5xgwf parties (or maybe a token cleric if they are undergeared)
I do agree we need dungeons and pvp maps. Not new zones with dailies that everyone will avoid like a plague after a month.
2 ways they can address this:
1. Make control powers do less damage, and make non-control powers do more damage.
2. Diminishing return on control effects.
1) New PVE DUNGEONS. Problem: No module has released anything comparable to Castle Never, there is nothing to keep the PVE camp going. We need a new dungeon harder (and I dont mean MORE adds) then Castle Never. Possible Solutions: A 10 man "RAID" instance would be awesome here. I really think players should be locked to the instance AND its put on a weekly CD. This prevents loot from being flushed into the economy from farming, but gives everyone something to farm and WANT to farm. Gear should be TRUE T3 gear - so the most powerful gear. These items honestly should NOT be "set items" just really powerful individual items - this allows players to mix n match their own sets. I really think sets is what is ruining the itemization for this game.
New PvE dungeons surely are needed. 10 man raids also sounds great. But what does "harder" mean? More adds during boss fight? Probably not. What we need are actually new dungeons with "new content types" inside of it. Take MC and VT for example, they are good examples of implementations of new content types. I mean at the final boss fights, instead of adds cleaning or adds kiting we see in old dungeons, they don't present you tons of adds and require you to use new strategy to win. So what are needed are actually these kind of new things we haven't seen before. And on the way to the boss, there can also be some new, interesting types of contents, not just always the same mobs cleaning.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
These sources say that controllers control with massive AoE damage.
You took one line from one source. TRs do need their damage re-buffed. A ranger is also and controller and a striker. They do a lot of damage. Having never played one, I'm not going to go on about what they do or do mot need.
.
That's pretty much It, then everything would be "back in line" as D&D has it...
Control Wizards really are supposed to be doing that kind of AoE damage.
Rogues definitely need rebuffed...
Though I think TRs may need their Single target damage buffed a little. But I am no expert on Rangers and have not played one.
BUT... the people who play them have to realize they're the RANGER class... not ARCHER class.
Which means they use BOTH melee and archery.
At least then the Strikers would actually be Strikers again. Right now the GWF is the only one left that hasn't been nerfed into the ground because of Selfish PvPers who didn't understand this concept.
DC is actually in a decent spot right now. In my opinion an ideal pvp class makeup requires a DC they are also required for PVE already.
GWFs already have a roar nerf incoming as well as a nerf to unstoppable REcovery - a feat that accounts for a LARGE portion of a GWFs self healing using ACT during pvp. With roar+unstop recov being nerfed, ALONG with the changes above, I think you will find the GWF is not the beast it currently is in PVP. If a CW can control easier, if a GF can deal more damage and a TR isnt forced to hide in stealth, the GWF will feel much more squishy compared to what he is now.
Actually, I feel that a max geared class that can make good use of defensive gear/feats/powers simply out-tanks a max geared class that focuses on the offense-based build. The amount of hp/defence that you can stack on a GWF nowadays for example, including the addition of PVP tenacity + no nerf to regen @low hp + the large amount of stun/aoe auto target abilities that it has means that it's still going to be a chore to put in a dent into them.
I've also spotted some terrible 'recent' changes compared to 8 months ago, such as the soulforge change (barely any difference between lesser and perfect now, makes it harder to win an unbalanced PVP match which occurs often @current PVP matchmaking mechanics etc.) and the annoyingly long time it takes before you can activate your mount after attacking/activating stealth etc. (slows down the pace while the fast pace is what made PVP fun).
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1) We need more PVE - CN LIKE dungeons that require a skill party to run and drop GOOD gear.
2) We need more PVP MAPS - its really that simple, people want to see new environments.
3) Contesting needs to be changed for pvp to make pvp a viable game again.
4) We need class re-balance/re-work.
5) Weapon enchants need a re-work across the board.
I mean #1 really opens the door for ALOT....
I dont think people want more boons, I dont think people want more skirmishes or anything, give us more dungeons, more loot and more gear - that DOESNT require us to get all 4 pieces for it to be useful.
-imagine them creating a CN-like dungeon that was 2x as long and could be run as a 5 man or 10 man group.
5 man drops T3 gear.
10 man drops T3.5 gear (basically just a little stat point difference).
All on a weekly timer. This allows you to get almost exactly the same gear as a 5 man, but the 10 man puts guild function into it, and the weekly timer allows for people to actually run this versus just "farming it".
Thats what I would like to see.
As for pvp - alot needs to be done there.
I agree with all your points. Except for point 4: I still think GWF and DC need a lot of fixes. (You think they are fine)
Actually I wouldn't care so much about class balance if they give us enough pve content to be busy for many weeks (till the following module, maybe). In pve is enough that every class is welcome to a party. No need for further balance.
It looks to me like module 3 wasnt really much of anything TBH, if the focus was PVP, then the entire zone would have been PVP not just a small section of the zone.
When you think of what they added, if you take out the PVP campaign and PVP zone, its basically just another module with dailies and new gear to get with a new "skirmish".. Add the PvP zone and pvp campaign and boom mod 3. I wouldnt say the focus is pvp, because it didnt really bring anything to the table. Now if they had added more dom maps or something, then yes. I acknowledge they TRIED to give pvpers something more, but the fact is, they just tried to supplement a module with pvp choices.
The only reason the majority are PVE players is because of the complete lack of pvp, so the pvp players join the game, get good, get geared, then 2 months later quit because nothing comes through.
I would easily bet - and no use really talking further about this, that more PVP players have quit the game than PVE players and more PVPers have PLAYED this game than PVE players in the entirety of the game. When it first launched the PVP community was HUGE and its been suffering ever since. - also again, I put new PVE content as my FIRST on the list. The fact is PVP brings alot of publicity to the game, PVE doesnt.
Im not neglecting the TR situation, if you see I addressed them in my OP as they need to be changed. Ive also supported and made many threads about this as well, TRs need to have their damage back, but the perma build needs to go AND the contesting function/role in pvp currently needs to go - it just makes matches no fun and the point of pvp domination should be team work to capture nodes, not "who can contest this node the best 1v1" - it takes away from the game.
Yeah its harder to be a good DC than a good GWF I get that forsure, but when I look at what needs to be done, its based on potential ability. DCs atleast have POTENTIAL to play well and be useful, TRs currently ONLY have perma/contesting - which needs to be fixed.
GWFs all play Dest because Sent deals no damage and their only roll is "contest" - which again needs to go.
GFs dont even have potential, id rather take a DC in a group than a GF and id rather have a CW than a GF...
All of the Pass 'sept for quest giver's area and a few safe spots with fire should've been red. Inside it roam the same monsters as now plus alot more of the faction NPCs. You can go and do your normal PVE dailies killin' bears and barbarians however if you strike an NPCs from an opposing faction you get flagged for PVP and you gotta fight. This is how open world PVP works
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
fine?? yep sure its fine when GWFS are dealing 100k more than TR, their dps is really Op, they really need to nerf their dps, or increase TRs dps by 3x so they can compete with GWFs in pve
A Destroyer GWF has to build up 2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage and dont forget the Perfect Vorpal. Im tired of clueless nerf lovers who act as if IBS hits for 20K base on its own. We work for our damage as Destroyers it doesnt come for free, so when you get hit for 20k with IBS please be so kind and note: that it was a crit, that the GWF has some funny looking lil icons with numbers in them and last but not least that you didnt dodge the bloody strike.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
A Destroyer GWF has to build up 2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage and dont forget the Perfect Vorpal. Im tired of clueless nerf lovers who act as if IBS hits for 20K base on its own. We work for our damage as Destroyers it doesnt come for free, so when you get hit for 20k with IBS please be so kind and note: that it was a crit, that the GWF has some funny looking lil icons with numbers in them and last but not least that you didnt dodge the bloody strike.
so lets say: tr would love to have "2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage"
I like the idea of a GF being able to TAB an ally and buff their DR, BUT, that will cause ''plz nerf GF TAB'' threads. GFs will TAB their GWF and DC in PVP and then it is good game.
I hate the fact that so much of this game's balance has to be done around PVP, because a TAB feature like that would be awesome in a PVE environment but OP in PVP.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A Destroyer GWF has to build up 2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage and dont forget the Perfect Vorpal. Im tired of clueless nerf lovers who act as if IBS hits for 20K base on its own. We work for our damage as Destroyers it doesnt come for free, so when you get hit for 20k with IBS please be so kind and note: that it was a crit, that the GWF has some funny looking lil icons with numbers in them and last but not least that you didnt dodge the bloody strike.
And the rest of neverwinter pvp population is sick and tired to be on the receiving end of such a damage. And don't give us that bull****. GWF dish out that kind of damage more often than not (using dot damage of plaguefire, they build stacks easily. You have to work for it my ***)
For christ sake, in pvp there can't be classes that can do 10k every blow, when health pool is around 30k. How hard is that to understand?!?!? All that while the opponent stays prone the entire fight.
Pvp should be a game of attrition, where who has the best team play wins. In neverwinter: 2 gwf that focus 1 opponent at time, and is game over (and sometime 1 gwf is enough)
My main is a GF.
I used to really want the fights to be designed to require the tank role. And more survivability, a way to actually move out of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> etc.
But I've been playing my dpses more lately. And realized I always get in dungeons without tanks. And IF they do come in the dungeon and one point and IF they stick around, if there's a wipe, even one at 20% boss' life due to a stupid mistake someone made (MC Fulminorax comes to mind) - they leave. All of them - OMG wipe, leave.
So tbh, even if it pains me, tanks don't deserve to have more important roles nor better tools. Just remove them. Eliminate the tank role and the need for tank in a dungeon queue. It's 4-manning everything as it is anyway.
I have no problem with the damage a GWF does. I have a problem with the fact that he can take more damage than my GF.
Someone swinging a massive two-handed sword should be able to cut you in half, but that same person wearing leather and scales should not be able to sustain more damage than someone in head-to-toe plate armour and bearing a shield.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
My main is a GF.
I used to really want the fights to be designed to require the tank role. And more survivability, a way to actually move out of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> etc.
But I've been playing my dpses more lately. And realized I always get in dungeons without tanks. And IF they do come in the dungeon and one point and IF they stick around, if there's a wipe, even one at 20% boss' life due to a stupid mistake someone made (MC Fulminorax comes to mind) - they leave. All of them - OMG wipe, leave.
So tbh, even if it pains me, tanks don't deserve to have more important roles nor better tools. Just remove them. Eliminate the tank role and the need for tank in a dungeon queue. It's 4-manning everything as it is anyway.
On the weekend two GWFs quit my Valindra run after the third wipe. Please delete GWFs?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
For christ sake, in pvp there can't be classes that can do 10k every blow, when health pool is around 30k. How hard is that to understand?!?!? All that while the opponent stays prone the entire fight.
I can land multiple 10k crits on my GF while my opponent stays proned. But the fact is - GF is the most squishy PvP class. I'm getting destroyed in a couple of seconds without possibility to fight back even. Once GF is CC'd, he's dead. GF is the only class in the game, that has no defensive abilities. Seriously, all he has is offensive <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, HE'S A TANK FFS, TR's have ITC, stealth, Blood Bath and passive, that gives then deflect; GWF's have Daring Shout, Avalanche of Steel and passive, that gives them deflect etc. Each class but GF has something, that helps them survive.
Another problem, is that GWF doesn't need to build offensive to deal that kind of damage. Just build them stacks and you have 20k IBS crits. No class should have both extremely high damage and survivability.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I can land multiple 10k crits on my GF while my opponent stays proned. But the fact is - GF is the most squishy PvP class. I'm getting destroyed in a couple of seconds without possibility to fight back even. Once GF is CC'd, he's dead. GF is the only class in the game, that has no defensive abilities. Seriously, all he has is offensive <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, HE'S A TANK FFS, TR's have ITC, stealth, Blood Bath and passive, that gives then deflect; GWF's have Daring Shout, Avalanche of Steel and passive, that gives them deflect etc. Each class but GF has something, that helps them survive.
Another problem, is that GWF doesn't need to build offensive to deal that kind of damage. Just build them stacks and you have 20k IBS crits. No class should have both extremely high damage and survivability.
DC? DO you really think our heals keep us alive? Or 2 dodges every eve?
Anyway I agree on what you said.
DC? DO you really think our heals keep us alive? Or 2 dodges every eve?
DC has enough defensive abilities - Astral Shield, Hollowed Ground, Divine Armor, Foresight/Anointed Armor. Yes, even those crappy 100hp Healing Word ticks and 2 dodges with low stamina regen are WAY BETTER surviving tools, then anything GF has.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
DC has enough defensive abilities - Astral Shield, Hollowed Ground, Divine Armor, Foresight/Anointed Armor. Yes, even those crappy 100hp Healing Word ticks and 2 dodges with low stamina regen are WAY BETTER surviving tools, then anything GF has.
Ehm, they are party buff. And you have a shield. But ok, I don't want to start a war on who is worst in pvp
I will be only happy if cryptic will give GF the dignity he deserves.
I also have both, but I'm of a different opinion. My DC has killed ONE GWF in his 10-month lifespan while falling victim to hundreds of others. On the other hand my GF has a good few GWF scalps and if he doesn't kill a GWF he does make a good few of them run off to pot/regen.
Also, enemy priorities are a factor. DCs will always face sustained fire as a prime target while GFs, unless already proven to be problematic, will be seen as a low priority target.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Once GF is CC'd, he's dead. GF is the only class in the game, that has no defensive abilities.
Pretty much anyone CC'd is dead. It's not a GF-specific issue. Some classes have ways to escape from the CC train, but DCs and CWs in particular are in exactly the same boat regarding being CC'd and unable to do anything about it.
GFs are nowhere near as squishy as you seem to think. They're easy to stack def and HP on, can build reasonably good deflect, and they have a massive shield, which -while terrible at blocking tiny hits from tons of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PvE dudes- is really good at blocking gigantic hits from overgeared PvP dudes. And they have a decent set of prones (and prone is the PvP meta de jour). Provided they don't get pronechained, they're not too shabby. And hey, they might survive one pronechain anyway, coz..hitpoints.
Compare this with CWs who have to stack a ton of their least useful stat (woo 24 CON!) to survive more than one hit, and who have to watch all their CCs evaporate due to tenacity, and who are unlikely to survive a pronechain.
Or compare to DCs, who can build up decent mitigation (right up until they're punted out of it), but who are working with heals at 60% by default, usually with healing depression and shadowtouched, and who do only mediocre damage (often with a long cast time to boot). And who have only one prone, which is laughable (and a daily), and who pretty much require a team of non-morons to function as anything other than a campfire visitor...
Basically PvP is a GWF/HR/TR game (and only specific builds of those, to boot), but of "all the others", GF is not at the bottom of the pile.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Pretty much anyone CC'd is dead. It's not a GF-specific issue. Some classes have ways to escape from the CC train, but DCs and CWs in particular are in exactly the same boat regarding being CC'd and unable to do anything about it.
GFs are nowhere near as squishy as you seem to think. They're easy to stack def and HP on, can build reasonably good deflect, and they have a massive shield, which -while terrible at blocking tiny hits from tons of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PvE dudes- is really good at blocking gigantic hits from overgeared PvP dudes. And they have a decent set of prones (and prone is the PvP meta de jour). Provided they don't get pronechained, they're not too shabby. And hey, they might survive one pronechain anyway, coz..hitpoints.
Compare this with CWs who have to stack a ton of their least useful stat (woo 24 CON!) to survive more than one hit, and who have to watch all their CCs evaporate due to tenacity, and who are unlikely to survive a pronechain.
Or compare to DCs, who can build up decent mitigation (right up until they're punted out of it), but who are working with heals at 60% by default, usually with healing depression and shadowtouched, and who do only mediocre damage (often with a long cast time to boot). And who have only one prone, which is laughable (and a daily), and who pretty much require a team of non-morons to function as anything other than a campfire visitor...
Basically PvP is a GWF/HR/TR game (and only specific builds of those, to boot), but of "all the others", GF is not at the bottom of the pile.
The fact that I have only 3 pg, dc (main), cw and gf, makes me feel very very unlucky
GF can build defensively, but then he's just a meatshield provides nothing but a couple of predictable CC hits. They don't work like GWF's, where you can build full defensive and still do crazy amounts of damage. Defensive GF's hit my DC for 800 with Bull Charge. You either squishy, but have a chance to kill you opponent (GF is good at dueling), or defensive useless brick.
I can agree, that in PvP GF is decent and a lot more fun to play then DC, but it doesn't negate the fact he's useless in PvE and has no defensive abilities (dodge>>>>block, and everyone can build defensive stats).
And the rest of neverwinter pvp population is sick and tired to be on the receiving end of such a damage. And don't give us that bull****. GWF dish out that kind of damage more often than not (using dot damage of plaguefire, they build stacks easily. You have to work for it my ***)
For christ sake, in pvp there can't be classes that can do 10k every blow, when health pool is around 30k. How hard is that to understand?!?!? All that while the opponent stays prone the entire fight.
Pvp should be a game of attrition, where who has the best team play wins. In neverwinter: 2 gwf that focus 1 opponent at time, and is game over (and sometime 1 gwf is enough)
The best team play does win, not even your god, the GWF can survive being zerged. Also I dont use PF on my GWF and I dont do the mistake of putting all GWF players under a common denominator, neither should you.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I have no problem with the damage a GWF does. I have a problem with the fact that he can take more damage than my GF.
Someone swinging a massive two-handed sword should be able to cut you in half, but that same person wearing leather and scales should not be able to sustain more damage than someone in head-to-toe plate armour and bearing a shield.
This ^! Every bit of this
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
I think GWFs should do more damage than CWs in aoe though, because CWs have better control skills + huge debuffs. so nerf to CW damage would be welcome for me, but GWFs need to nerf their pve survivability or they will just make 5xgwf parties (or maybe a token cleric if they are undergeared)
I do agree we need dungeons and pvp maps. Not new zones with dailies that everyone will avoid like a plague after a month.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I would also like to see an outline of what classes are intended to do and where they should fit in in relation to eachother -- something to allow us as players to better be able to give feedback/bug reports when things go out of whack (as they are now such could have been detected and corrected earlier if proper means existed to indicate and provide feedback).
2 ways they can address this:
1. Make control powers do less damage, and make non-control powers do more damage.
2. Diminishing return on control effects.
New PvE dungeons surely are needed. 10 man raids also sounds great. But what does "harder" mean? More adds during boss fight? Probably not. What we need are actually new dungeons with "new content types" inside of it. Take MC and VT for example, they are good examples of implementations of new content types. I mean at the final boss fights, instead of adds cleaning or adds kiting we see in old dungeons, they don't present you tons of adds and require you to use new strategy to win. So what are needed are actually these kind of new things we haven't seen before. And on the way to the boss, there can also be some new, interesting types of contents, not just always the same mobs cleaning.
That's pretty much It, then everything would be "back in line" as D&D has it...
Control Wizards really are supposed to be doing that kind of AoE damage.
Rogues definitely need rebuffed...
Though I think TRs may need their Single target damage buffed a little. But I am no expert on Rangers and have not played one.
BUT... the people who play them have to realize they're the RANGER class... not ARCHER class.
Which means they use BOTH melee and archery.
At least then the Strikers would actually be Strikers again. Right now the GWF is the only one left that hasn't been nerfed into the ground because of Selfish PvPers who didn't understand this concept.
Actually, I feel that a max geared class that can make good use of defensive gear/feats/powers simply out-tanks a max geared class that focuses on the offense-based build. The amount of hp/defence that you can stack on a GWF nowadays for example, including the addition of PVP tenacity + no nerf to regen @low hp + the large amount of stun/aoe auto target abilities that it has means that it's still going to be a chore to put in a dent into them.
I've also spotted some terrible 'recent' changes compared to 8 months ago, such as the soulforge change (barely any difference between lesser and perfect now, makes it harder to win an unbalanced PVP match which occurs often @current PVP matchmaking mechanics etc.) and the annoyingly long time it takes before you can activate your mount after attacking/activating stealth etc. (slows down the pace while the fast pace is what made PVP fun).
I agree with all your points. Except for point 4: I still think GWF and DC need a lot of fixes. (You think they are fine)
Actually I wouldn't care so much about class balance if they give us enough pve content to be busy for many weeks (till the following module, maybe). In pve is enough that every class is welcome to a party. No need for further balance.
All of the Pass 'sept for quest giver's area and a few safe spots with fire should've been red. Inside it roam the same monsters as now plus alot more of the faction NPCs. You can go and do your normal PVE dailies killin' bears and barbarians however if you strike an NPCs from an opposing faction you get flagged for PVP and you gotta fight. This is how open world PVP works
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
A Destroyer GWF has to build up 2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage and dont forget the Perfect Vorpal. Im tired of clueless nerf lovers who act as if IBS hits for 20K base on its own. We work for our damage as Destroyers it doesnt come for free, so when you get hit for 20k with IBS please be so kind and note: that it was a crit, that the GWF has some funny looking lil icons with numbers in them and last but not least that you didnt dodge the bloody strike.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
so lets say: tr would love to have "2/3 separate stacks to reach his upper levels of damage"
I hate the fact that so much of this game's balance has to be done around PVP, because a TAB feature like that would be awesome in a PVE environment but OP in PVP.
And the rest of neverwinter pvp population is sick and tired to be on the receiving end of such a damage. And don't give us that bull****. GWF dish out that kind of damage more often than not (using dot damage of plaguefire, they build stacks easily. You have to work for it my ***)
For christ sake, in pvp there can't be classes that can do 10k every blow, when health pool is around 30k. How hard is that to understand?!?!? All that while the opponent stays prone the entire fight.
Pvp should be a game of attrition, where who has the best team play wins. In neverwinter: 2 gwf that focus 1 opponent at time, and is game over (and sometime 1 gwf is enough)
I used to really want the fights to be designed to require the tank role. And more survivability, a way to actually move out of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> etc.
But I've been playing my dpses more lately. And realized I always get in dungeons without tanks. And IF they do come in the dungeon and one point and IF they stick around, if there's a wipe, even one at 20% boss' life due to a stupid mistake someone made (MC Fulminorax comes to mind) - they leave. All of them - OMG wipe, leave.
So tbh, even if it pains me, tanks don't deserve to have more important roles nor better tools. Just remove them. Eliminate the tank role and the need for tank in a dungeon queue. It's 4-manning everything as it is anyway.
Someone swinging a massive two-handed sword should be able to cut you in half, but that same person wearing leather and scales should not be able to sustain more damage than someone in head-to-toe plate armour and bearing a shield.
On the weekend two GWFs quit my Valindra run after the third wipe. Please delete GWFs?
I can land multiple 10k crits on my GF while my opponent stays proned. But the fact is - GF is the most squishy PvP class. I'm getting destroyed in a couple of seconds without possibility to fight back even. Once GF is CC'd, he's dead. GF is the only class in the game, that has no defensive abilities. Seriously, all he has is offensive <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, HE'S A TANK FFS, TR's have ITC, stealth, Blood Bath and passive, that gives then deflect; GWF's have Daring Shout, Avalanche of Steel and passive, that gives them deflect etc. Each class but GF has something, that helps them survive.
Another problem, is that GWF doesn't need to build offensive to deal that kind of damage. Just build them stacks and you have 20k IBS crits. No class should have both extremely high damage and survivability.
DC? DO you really think our heals keep us alive? Or 2 dodges every eve?
Anyway I agree on what you said.
DC has enough defensive abilities - Astral Shield, Hollowed Ground, Divine Armor, Foresight/Anointed Armor. Yes, even those crappy 100hp Healing Word ticks and 2 dodges with low stamina regen are WAY BETTER surviving tools, then anything GF has.
Ehm, they are party buff. And you have a shield. But ok, I don't want to start a war on who is worst in pvp
I will be only happy if cryptic will give GF the dignity he deserves.
I play both. Believe me, GF is worse.
I also have both, but I'm of a different opinion. My DC has killed ONE GWF in his 10-month lifespan while falling victim to hundreds of others. On the other hand my GF has a good few GWF scalps and if he doesn't kill a GWF he does make a good few of them run off to pot/regen.
Also, enemy priorities are a factor. DCs will always face sustained fire as a prime target while GFs, unless already proven to be problematic, will be seen as a low priority target.
Pretty much anyone CC'd is dead. It's not a GF-specific issue. Some classes have ways to escape from the CC train, but DCs and CWs in particular are in exactly the same boat regarding being CC'd and unable to do anything about it.
GFs are nowhere near as squishy as you seem to think. They're easy to stack def and HP on, can build reasonably good deflect, and they have a massive shield, which -while terrible at blocking tiny hits from tons of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PvE dudes- is really good at blocking gigantic hits from overgeared PvP dudes. And they have a decent set of prones (and prone is the PvP meta de jour). Provided they don't get pronechained, they're not too shabby. And hey, they might survive one pronechain anyway, coz..hitpoints.
Compare this with CWs who have to stack a ton of their least useful stat (woo 24 CON!) to survive more than one hit, and who have to watch all their CCs evaporate due to tenacity, and who are unlikely to survive a pronechain.
Or compare to DCs, who can build up decent mitigation (right up until they're punted out of it), but who are working with heals at 60% by default, usually with healing depression and shadowtouched, and who do only mediocre damage (often with a long cast time to boot). And who have only one prone, which is laughable (and a daily), and who pretty much require a team of non-morons to function as anything other than a campfire visitor...
Basically PvP is a GWF/HR/TR game (and only specific builds of those, to boot), but of "all the others", GF is not at the bottom of the pile.
The fact that I have only 3 pg, dc (main), cw and gf, makes me feel very very unlucky
I can agree, that in PvP GF is decent and a lot more fun to play then DC, but it doesn't negate the fact he's useless in PvE and has no defensive abilities (dodge>>>>block, and everyone can build defensive stats).
I have GWF and it's the least fun to play class in his current state.
Fine by me, wont play one either way
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The best team play does win, not even your god, the GWF can survive being zerged. Also I dont use PF on my GWF and I dont do the mistake of putting all GWF players under a common denominator, neither should you.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This ^! Every bit of this
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.