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Module 4: What Module 4 NEEDS to have for Neverwinter to succeed.
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
This may be my last post until I see module 4 on the PTR. In an effort to try and steer this in the right direction for the new module, I really hope the DEV team sees this. Pleae no flaming here.
1) New PVE DUNGEONS.
Problem: No module has released anything comparable to Castle Never, there is nothing to keep the PVE camp going. We need a new dungeon harder (and I dont mean MORE adds) then Castle Never.
Possible Solutions: A 10 man "RAID" instance would be awesome here. I really think players should be locked to the instance AND its put on a weekly CD. This prevents loot from being flushed into the economy from farming, but gives everyone something to farm and WANT to farm. Gear should be TRUE T3 gear - so the most powerful gear. These items honestly should NOT be "set items" just really powerful individual items - this allows players to mix n match their own sets. I really think sets is what is ruining the itemization for this game.
2) New PVP Maps and Gametypes
Problem: We have been playing the SAME maps for a year and a half. The PVP community is DYING.
Solution: You DONT have to put a TON of work into the maps, you can recycle chip sets from all 3 modules. What ALSO needs to be done is more gametypes. Slayer match would be awesome, combined with an "oddball" gametype. For Oddball - all players powers would be "locked" while holding the ball, ball drops upon death of the player and its click cast to pick up.
3) Contesting needs to be removed from PVP
Problem: PVP has turned into stalemate domination. TRs dont even attack anymore just waste time contesting on nodes. Yesterday played a match that took over an hour to score 300 points..
solution: Contesting doesnt REMOVE the point gain but just diminishes it. Normally nodes give 1 point per second. Contested nodes provide 1 point every 3 seconds. So contesting still plays a roll, but its not THE solution. This would REALLY help PVP.
4) Balance:
Guardian Fighters:
Problem: Block meter sucks, Tab function is lack luster. GFs just are not needed in PVE and PVP.
Solution: Guard meter set to a pure "time" function like stamina. A base of 5 seconds should be ok, then strength/feats/gear would boost this. Guardian Fighters need to have the same "stat" benefits as GWFs. STR = Damage bonus, CON = HP/ARP DEX = Crit/Deflect. This would give GFs more crit overall and therefore more damage.
Guardiant fighters TAB should be able to be cast on a TEAMMATE with a GREEN "X" that would BOOST DR, now it can be used as an offensive tool or defensive tool.
Trickster Rogue:
Problem: TRs are forced into playing perma stealth in PVP. Their damage has been nerfed too hard and they dont have the tools to survive outside stealth.
Solution: TRs need to PLAY more like an HR in melee currently. They need defensive tools like more deflect, more dodges, and more damage!!! Lashing Blade needs a rework to be more beneficial, impact shot needs to be brought back but at reduced number of charges. Smoke Screen should provide damage as well, or a -DR debuff. ETC...
Hunter Ranger:
Problem: HRs are all melee spec because of the build currently available. There is no other good choice for them.
Solution: I really think if you improve the Ranger Tree more HRs will try this out. It would be nice to see the final capstone buffed back to benefit rangers to make that a viable spec. ALSO - HRs have a feat that gives DR and is reduced based on the number of targets around them, this should be REVERSED to gives DR not reduced by number of opponents but gives DR BASED on number of opponents nearby...
Control Wizard:
Problem: CWs dont have enough control both in PVP and PVE. This is what requires PVE groups to run more CWs and why in PVP they are not frankly that great.
Solution: CWs need their overall damage reduced, but with that, more control powers. Every power a CW has should have some "control" function to it. This is NOT a DPS class but a Control class. They should feel like they can control things well, but cant deal as much damage. I wont get into specifics here
5) Weapon/Armor Enchants Redone
Crush is aware of this, there are many thread about how 1) weapon enchants done scale across all classes evenly, making all enchants a % DAMAGE increase rather than based on weapon damage allows this to scale across all classes much better.
Armor enchants are ALL lackluster. CDs need to be dropped down, benefits need to be increased...
I will end here but feel free to post more!
1) New PVE DUNGEONS.
Problem: No module has released anything comparable to Castle Never, there is nothing to keep the PVE camp going. We need a new dungeon harder (and I dont mean MORE adds) then Castle Never.
Possible Solutions: A 10 man "RAID" instance would be awesome here. I really think players should be locked to the instance AND its put on a weekly CD. This prevents loot from being flushed into the economy from farming, but gives everyone something to farm and WANT to farm. Gear should be TRUE T3 gear - so the most powerful gear. These items honestly should NOT be "set items" just really powerful individual items - this allows players to mix n match their own sets. I really think sets is what is ruining the itemization for this game.
2) New PVP Maps and Gametypes
Problem: We have been playing the SAME maps for a year and a half. The PVP community is DYING.
Solution: You DONT have to put a TON of work into the maps, you can recycle chip sets from all 3 modules. What ALSO needs to be done is more gametypes. Slayer match would be awesome, combined with an "oddball" gametype. For Oddball - all players powers would be "locked" while holding the ball, ball drops upon death of the player and its click cast to pick up.
3) Contesting needs to be removed from PVP
Problem: PVP has turned into stalemate domination. TRs dont even attack anymore just waste time contesting on nodes. Yesterday played a match that took over an hour to score 300 points..
solution: Contesting doesnt REMOVE the point gain but just diminishes it. Normally nodes give 1 point per second. Contested nodes provide 1 point every 3 seconds. So contesting still plays a roll, but its not THE solution. This would REALLY help PVP.
4) Balance:
Guardian Fighters:
Problem: Block meter sucks, Tab function is lack luster. GFs just are not needed in PVE and PVP.
Solution: Guard meter set to a pure "time" function like stamina. A base of 5 seconds should be ok, then strength/feats/gear would boost this. Guardian Fighters need to have the same "stat" benefits as GWFs. STR = Damage bonus, CON = HP/ARP DEX = Crit/Deflect. This would give GFs more crit overall and therefore more damage.
Guardiant fighters TAB should be able to be cast on a TEAMMATE with a GREEN "X" that would BOOST DR, now it can be used as an offensive tool or defensive tool.
Trickster Rogue:
Problem: TRs are forced into playing perma stealth in PVP. Their damage has been nerfed too hard and they dont have the tools to survive outside stealth.
Solution: TRs need to PLAY more like an HR in melee currently. They need defensive tools like more deflect, more dodges, and more damage!!! Lashing Blade needs a rework to be more beneficial, impact shot needs to be brought back but at reduced number of charges. Smoke Screen should provide damage as well, or a -DR debuff. ETC...
Hunter Ranger:
Problem: HRs are all melee spec because of the build currently available. There is no other good choice for them.
Solution: I really think if you improve the Ranger Tree more HRs will try this out. It would be nice to see the final capstone buffed back to benefit rangers to make that a viable spec. ALSO - HRs have a feat that gives DR and is reduced based on the number of targets around them, this should be REVERSED to gives DR not reduced by number of opponents but gives DR BASED on number of opponents nearby...
Control Wizard:
Problem: CWs dont have enough control both in PVP and PVE. This is what requires PVE groups to run more CWs and why in PVP they are not frankly that great.
Solution: CWs need their overall damage reduced, but with that, more control powers. Every power a CW has should have some "control" function to it. This is NOT a DPS class but a Control class. They should feel like they can control things well, but cant deal as much damage. I wont get into specifics here
5) Weapon/Armor Enchants Redone
Crush is aware of this, there are many thread about how 1) weapon enchants done scale across all classes evenly, making all enchants a % DAMAGE increase rather than based on weapon damage allows this to scale across all classes much better.
Armor enchants are ALL lackluster. CDs need to be dropped down, benefits need to be increased...
I will end here but feel free to post more!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
DC is actually in a decent spot right now. In my opinion an ideal pvp class makeup requires a DC they are also required for PVE already.
GWFs already have a roar nerf incoming as well as a nerf to unstoppable REcovery - a feat that accounts for a LARGE portion of a GWFs self healing using ACT during pvp. With roar+unstop recov being nerfed, ALONG with the changes above, I think you will find the GWF is not the beast it currently is in PVP. If a CW can control easier, if a GF can deal more damage and a TR isnt forced to hide in stealth, the GWF will feel much more squishy compared to what he is now.
"Control Wizards primarily focus on controlling the battlefield and dealing damage to a large number of creatures simultaneously Because of the wizard's role as a controller, they possess more crowd control options than any other class. Their ability to deal high amounts of damage gives them the secondary role of striker. They wield a magical orb and are capable of unleashing torrents of damage on enemy parties. They can only wear cloth armor."
http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20091202
"A controller discourages enemies from making certain choices with his area offense attacks, by which the controller punishes enemies from grouping together or takes a direct hand in influencing actions."
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Wizard
"Wizard overview
Wizards are scions of arcane magic. Wizards tap the true power that permeates the cosmos, research esoteric rituals that can alter time and space, and hurl balls of fire that incinerate massed foes. Wizards wield spells the way warriors brandish swords. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_class_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29
"Controllers focus on affecting multiple targets at once, either damaging or debuffing them, or altering the battlefield's terrain. Some classes, such as Wizards and Invokers, are focused towards ranged combat, while Druids can specialize in ranged or melee combat."
Sounds to me like they're supposed to be a DPS class.
DCs are nice to have, but few groups need one. Fulmi is probably the only encounter in the game I haven't done without a DC.
As long as TRs can hide in stealth, they [/i]will[/i] hide in stealth. If you're going to give their damage back to them, you need to change the way they fight in stealth.
P.s: DC is completely fine in PVP.
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
Best rapper 2014
Alpha female
DC's feats must be reworked, that's a fact.
Enchantments rework? that would be great.
Guild should be more useful, not just for GG.
New Classes, not just one. Variety is always a plus.
New paragons.
Finally, OP, if you are going to say something like: "Problem: HRs are all melee spec because of the build currently available." Don't forget that almost every GWF is Destroyer, Instigator tree must be reworked as well. I would love to see for every class something like the CW where you can be either Renegade or Thaumaturge and be good with both, at least for PvE.
My points above are in green as to respond to each of your points.
This is because no one asked them to make OPvP but to give us new Domination maps and PvP modes.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Aulderon I strongly agree with everything you've pointed out here regarding the CW. If some folks would read these things it might clear up a lot of misconceptions. Since the beginning of PnP D&D wizards have been what many here would consider "OP". It is what has always been intended for the class and nothing has changed.
Having said that, the devs have heard all the crying and "big changes" are in the works, so I fear anything we say here may not matter at all.
Regarding the TR, personally I would turn your statement around and say if you are going to mess with stealth you need to give them their damage back. Which would make them much more viable again in PVE.
I used to really enjoy playing my combat-spec TR, but now every time I roll her out I become frustrated and disappointed anew when her lashing blade hits like a wet noodle (not to mention all the other skills I don't even slot anymore because they've been nerfed into complete uselessness). Franky, what's been done to the TR is a joke. Make them a real DPS class again please, devs.
Again in green is my responses.
They have already announced this in the works.
So their secondary role is striker. Sounds to me like if your primary role is striker you should have higher DPS right?
"The Hunter Ranger is Neverwinter's sixth class, introduced with the Shadowmantle module. Hunter Rangers are strikers who switch between melee and ranged attacks using the Tab key. The ability to switch between melee and ranged attacks is gained upon reaching 10th level. The Hunter Ranger's dodge mechanic, also known as a shift, is of shorter distance than the Cleric's, Rogue's, or Wizard's, but drains less stamina. "
Or what if their primary role is simly 'damage'?
"A rogue is a martial class with primary role of attacker. This rogue build relies on deception to attack enemies - slipping out of shadows - to deadly effect. The Trickster's unique combination of skills sets up this Rogue build to have a secondary role of controller. It is a damage-dealing class specializing in stealth, speed, precision with a pair of two sharp blades and a store of daggers which can be thrown to distract the enemy. Rogues usually wear leather armor.
Unlike the other five classes, the rogue has two primary paths of focus, both of which are equally viable. The first is the stealth rogue, able to maintain stealth permanently. This path isn't as good at DPS, but can often save a whole dungeon run by soloing the final boss for the last little bit. The second is the combat rogue, who's all about the damage output. This combat rogue is usually preferred in parties, but in exchange, if something goes wrong, the combat rogue will go down with the rest of the party. "
So if you believe in your own source you should be begging for massive damage buffs for TRs and HRs until CWs average third in DPS. Or nerfing CW DPS until it is comparably low.
It looks to me like module 3 wasnt really much of anything TBH, if the focus was PVP, then the entire zone would have been PVP not just a small section of the zone.
When you think of what they added, if you take out the PVP campaign and PVP zone, its basically just another module with dailies and new gear to get with a new "skirmish".. Add the PvP zone and pvp campaign and boom mod 3. I wouldnt say the focus is pvp, because it didnt really bring anything to the table. Now if they had added more dom maps or something, then yes. I acknowledge they TRIED to give pvpers something more, but the fact is, they just tried to supplement a module with pvp choices.
The only reason the majority are PVE players is because of the complete lack of pvp, so the pvp players join the game, get good, get geared, then 2 months later quit because nothing comes through.
I would easily bet - and no use really talking further about this, that more PVP players have quit the game than PVE players and more PVPers have PLAYED this game than PVE players in the entirety of the game. When it first launched the PVP community was HUGE and its been suffering ever since. - also again, I put new PVE content as my FIRST on the list. The fact is PVP brings alot of publicity to the game, PVE doesnt.
Im not neglecting the TR situation, if you see I addressed them in my OP as they need to be changed. Ive also supported and made many threads about this as well, TRs need to have their damage back, but the perma build needs to go AND the contesting function/role in pvp currently needs to go - it just makes matches no fun and the point of pvp domination should be team work to capture nodes, not "who can contest this node the best 1v1" - it takes away from the game.
Yeah its harder to be a good DC than a good GWF I get that forsure, but when I look at what needs to be done, its based on potential ability. DCs atleast have POTENTIAL to play well and be useful, TRs currently ONLY have perma/contesting - which needs to be fixed.
GWFs all play Dest because Sent deals no damage and their only roll is "contest" - which again needs to go.
GFs dont even have potential, id rather take a DC in a group than a GF and id rather have a CW than a GF...
Well whether you like it or not...
D&D classifies AoE damage as "Control" so if you are a controller in D&D, you have a larger amount of AoE damage than any other class.
It classifies Single Target as "Striker"..... so IF your role is defined as "Striker"... you should indeed have greater single target damage but that doesn't include AoE damage.
Which is why the CW works the way it does.
Its not a "controller" in the sense you thought of in other games.
Its just an AoE damager with control components thrown in per standard D&D classification.
1) We need more PVE - CN LIKE dungeons that require a skill party to run and drop GOOD gear.
2) We need more PVP MAPS - its really that simple, people want to see new environments.
3) Contesting needs to be changed for pvp to make pvp a viable game again.
4) We need class re-balance/re-work.
5) Weapon enchants need a re-work across the board.
I mean #1 really opens the door for ALOT....
I dont think people want more boons, I dont think people want more skirmishes or anything, give us more dungeons, more loot and more gear - that DOESNT require us to get all 4 pieces for it to be useful.
-imagine them creating a CN-like dungeon that was 2x as long and could be run as a 5 man or 10 man group.
5 man drops T3 gear.
10 man drops T3.5 gear (basically just a little stat point difference).
All on a weekly timer. This allows you to get almost exactly the same gear as a 5 man, but the 10 man puts guild function into it, and the weekly timer allows for people to actually run this versus just "farming it".
Thats what I would like to see.
As for pvp - alot needs to be done there.
If you want an example of this. Just look at STO. Their PVP is pretty much as close as one can get to not existing. Even the Devs have called it insignificant. As such, there has been zero updates to it, for years now.
It's absence has done nothing to lower either popularity or revenue from the game. It's still considered a highly successful title by both PWE and Cryptic.
That is actually the problem. Name another class that requires an "ideal pvp class makeup" to be viable in PvP? The fact is DCs can't do well in a PUG group like the other classes. The class is also insignificant in PvE outside damage mitigation late game. Lifesteal and pots make healing unnecessary. Debuffing of mobs is easily done without them and new ways of debuffing come out with almost every module.
What DC's need that you don't know about:
1) More DPS. Nothing drastic but it is currently too low. IWD has driven this point home.
2) Combat encounters fixed. Less telegraphing, AoE's that don't reduce damage based on number hit, and proper CC abilities.
3) Healing depression exception in PvP. Similar to the control resist exception made for CWs. The percentage is debatable.
4) Remove Righteousness. Currently with healing depression cutting healing by 50% + righteousness at 40% a DC can only heal self at 10% capacity. Why is the class's defense feature nerfed so hard?
5) Fix the feat tree. It is full of useless "heal" feats. Virtuous serves no purpose and should be redesigned to be PvP oriented branch.
This isnt about PVP versus PVE guys... Its about what should be included in mod 4 to bring this game back on track...
In my opinion, PVP adds alot of value to games like this because there are entire communities that are looking to play a game like this, with PVP.
PVP brings alot of good to the game, which is why it SHOULD get some updates. Noone is saying PVP should be the end all be all, bit ignoring it is also a big mistake - as seen here in NW. I cant even count the number of ppl that have quit just because there is nothing to do anymore.
Even PVPers run alot of PVE SO they can PVP... BOTH need to be addressed...
to ur answer to other guys post
3. do u forgot about icewind pvp? im a DC currently i have 1.3k kills-500 deaths. most of the tme i can face and kill enemies who comes to try to kill me on icewidn "just bcs im a dc". but there are many dcs out there that arent dps, all they can do is try to run, they cant even heal themselves bcs od healing deppresion and healing penalty on themselves.
u forgot about 3 campaings are made for solo, which makes playing a DC and GF a hell.and u need to dps in ecnounters to get a decent reward, which there is no way for a dc or gwf to outdps cws or gwfs.
4.there are so many things wrong here u may have misunderstood. u said it was a GWF, prolly it was the GWF regen,defense,hp buffs, lifesteal who outhealed the dmage from those 2 gwfs not the DC. if u want to get good heals u need a DC with 12k+ healing and that will lead u to a DC with pve armor which is even worst since u will die on few hits.
and im not sure if u were playing against good players, i mean who attacks a tank/gwf when there is a dc alive????
These sources say that controllers control with massive AoE damage. You took one line from one source. TRs do need their damage re-buffed. A ranger is also and controller and a striker. They do a lot of damage. Having never played one, I'm not going to go on about what they do or do mot need.
I'm just sick of people saying CWs aren't supposed to do a lot of damage.
No actually there is no difference, is fix is a nerf. its going to do what its supposed to do, and that is to interuppt and do a very short mini stun.
GWF Dmg is fine, and their stuns(prones) are fine, If you cant learn to dodge, I dont know what to tell you.
Dmg is coming from Destroyer spec, which makes them Squishy.
Once roar is fixed GWF's are completely 100% balanced/fine in PvP.
Again, to bring it back to discussions surrounding positive fixes for mod 4:
1) NEW PVE! NOT just another dungeon to farm but truly an "end game worthy" dungeon. Something that makes people WANT to group up with guildies to play this. I am thinking of some type of system that only lets you run the dungeon once per day/few days/week.
- Its the same mentality of "events" where you want people doing the same thing at the same time. So make it so player can only run this new dungeon once per X days, and now players will get groups, and not just random groups/farm it.
2) New PVP maps - again something people have been PLEADING for for ages. We can throw contesting removal in here as well.
3) Class balance. MAINLY around TRs NOT being forced to play perma (get their dmg back!) GFs being useful and changes to HR/CW as well.
4) Enchant re-work!
No one is saying that CW's shouldn't do damage its just that the damage the are outputting right now is way out of line.
From the PHB handbook for 4th edition DnD (where the terms originated for the game)
Controller (Wizard)
Controllers deal with large numbers of enemies at the
same time. They favor offense over defense, using powers
that deal damage to multiple foes at once, as well as subtler
powers that weaken, confuse, or delay their foes.
Striker (Ranger, Rogue, Warlock)
Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage
to a single target at a time. They have the most concentrated
offense of any character in the game. Strikers rely
on superior mobility, trickery, or magic to move around
tough foes and single out the enemy they want to attack.
Notice how the the controller role states "deal damage to multiple foes" while the striker role reads "High amout of damage to a single target." This is not accurately represented in the game as it is right now. GWF powers and possibly some CW powers will do more damage than a TR or HR power to a single target. Also if you look into the Char optimization board on the wizard forums Strikers have a way higher DPS per round than a controller does. Its not even a close comparison in most cases.
CW's are without a doubt outperforming in their secondary role compared to the other classes. Instead of having a primary (controller) and secondary (stirker) role they have 2 primary roles.
And most of a CWs damage is done to many enemies. Granted, Ice Knife is a single target and does a great deal, but RoE (a debuff), Icy Rays and single Chill Strike don't do so much. When a CW gets paingiver, it's mostly because of his AoEs.
A TR should do more single target damage and used to, until people cried about them in PvP.
That is all.
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fine?? yep sure its fine when GWFS are dealing 100k more than TR, their dps is really Op, they really need to nerf their dps, or increase TRs dps by 3x so they can compete with GWFs in pve