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Help with a more combat oriented TR for PVE
reiwulf
Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
Hello fellow TRs
I'd like to hear some advices on a more combat oriented build I have (this is for PVE)
The idea is to have the enemy disabled most of the time, to have time to continuously dish damage without stopping.
So I use Smoke bomb, ITC, and dazing strike. with duelist flurry.
My rotation is mainly ITC, DF, Smoke bomb, DF, DS, DF, and repeat. It works pretty nice. The only problem is that after Dazing strike if I'm battling more enemies, I can't daze all of them, so I take quite a bit of damage.
When in groups this works really nice because mobs usually don't go for me so I'm free to just go for the big mobs and DF works really nice against those.
Also I try to use stealth whenever it's aviable, to get combat advantage and other damage bonus I have while stealthed.
I'm trying to minimize damage I get when using DS and having other enemies free to damage me. I've tried to use stealth after using DS, but I can't seem to get it up for the next time I use DS.
Some questions, should I try to spec for power or more crit? I've heard that after the power rework it could be better to go for raw power. but I don0t know if this is only for PVP or PVE too.
Also, for defense, should I try to get more lifesteal or more deflect? I've heard a TR can get around 40% deflect chance, considering they have a 75% deflect severity that would greatle reduce incoming damage.
And last question, what about equipment? PVE equipment or PVP equipment? I'v heard that for TRs even for PVE the best equipment might be the PVP one.
I hope you can help me
EDIT: Also, before anyone says something about it, I know that this build isn't the best one, and I'm not aiming to be the best, but I want to be competitive and have fun playing. (I got bored of the perma build for PVE)
I'd like to hear some advices on a more combat oriented build I have (this is for PVE)
The idea is to have the enemy disabled most of the time, to have time to continuously dish damage without stopping.
So I use Smoke bomb, ITC, and dazing strike. with duelist flurry.
My rotation is mainly ITC, DF, Smoke bomb, DF, DS, DF, and repeat. It works pretty nice. The only problem is that after Dazing strike if I'm battling more enemies, I can't daze all of them, so I take quite a bit of damage.
When in groups this works really nice because mobs usually don't go for me so I'm free to just go for the big mobs and DF works really nice against those.
Also I try to use stealth whenever it's aviable, to get combat advantage and other damage bonus I have while stealthed.
I'm trying to minimize damage I get when using DS and having other enemies free to damage me. I've tried to use stealth after using DS, but I can't seem to get it up for the next time I use DS.
Some questions, should I try to spec for power or more crit? I've heard that after the power rework it could be better to go for raw power. but I don0t know if this is only for PVP or PVE too.
Also, for defense, should I try to get more lifesteal or more deflect? I've heard a TR can get around 40% deflect chance, considering they have a 75% deflect severity that would greatle reduce incoming damage.
And last question, what about equipment? PVE equipment or PVP equipment? I'v heard that for TRs even for PVE the best equipment might be the PVP one.
I hope you can help me
EDIT: Also, before anyone says something about it, I know that this build isn't the best one, and I'm not aiming to be the best, but I want to be competitive and have fun playing. (I got bored of the perma build for PVE)
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In dungeons i follow the same rotation. Save your stealth for when things go south - dodge out, pop stealth and use CoS. For boss fights I use ITC, lashnig and wicked. Swap wicked for dazing if mantaining 5 stacks can be problematic, or for Deft in some rare cases. With that setup and carefully timed dodges you can facetank 90% of bosses. Solo play while doing dailies is no big problem. Since the best defence is a good offence I use dazing/blitz/wicked. For artifacts, get lantern, TRs sigil and black ice beholder - all three have combat advantage bonus and even without stealth but with some positioning/stuns you will see 20%+ increase in damage. And I would recommend full dmg executioner spec. I follow this build for a quite some time and I find it more fun and challenging than perma/hybrid. Just don't try to race GWF's and CW's for paingiver by using AoE (WoB is an exception) - just find the biggest dude in the room and deal some pain. Andt don't expect to rock the charts in pvp.
Defense? I always thought defense was basically worthless for TRs, that even with high defense you would get too much damage, that's why I thought about stacking deflect instead.
Also, why swashbuckling captain set? the 2 set gives recovery, is that more important than crit or power? or the 4 set bonus makes up for it? (Set 4: Your powers have a 25% chance to grant 338 Power and Recovery for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 3 times.) that's what you meant when you said that the set is 100% uptime in combat?
the rest is pretty clear, I think it's a more fun playstyle than perma
I also have around 25-30% both reduction and deflect chance, but deflect is just a tertiary stat on HP/power/defence gear I put on my stone. It was never my intention, just happened by accident - if I could stack more power instead I would certainly do it. I just prefer to have constant mitigation so that I know I can survive that massive AoE that boss throws at me, than keeping my fingers crossed and praying for deflect to proc. Besides, getting deflect high enough for it to be reliable would require too much sacrifice in other stats due to diminishing returns.
In the end, both gear choice and defence/deflect allocation depend on personal preference. Play for a while, see what your toon may lack and try to compensate. Enjoy
Swash set, 2500 armor pen and the rest to power. Don't stress defenses too much as you'll get one shotted even if you stack defense. Pure power after your armor pen is enough.
Throw in some companions that match your play style and that is how Dusk rolls.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Skulkers is still a good set because of its bonus set. That lack of power but got armor pen.
The gameplay is different, less spamming. You need to play more with stealth, spam DF, but its exactly what i need when im alone vs boss :
Burn them with high armor pen + bonus of skulkers and some tanking with hp ( of course, we got ITC but you wont have it 100% of the time ).
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
is a good starting point for soloing, with a few tweaks you can maximize ST DPS in a dungeon Skulkers is a good set for PVP but you said PVE I would suggest starting with a PvE set for PvE, PvP sets waste build points on Tenacity which is useless in PvE but a big deal in PvP
Some tips I can offer is not to disregard the feats that maximize stealth use and AP gain. More stealth = more CA damage = more AP generation = buckets of DPS. I can hit a Whirlwind of Blades every other mob, meaning, I may miss a fight generating AP, but the next fight, I can use WoB.
A well built PVE Executioner TR will not need ITC, Bait n Switch etc for survivability, so you can focus on crowd clearing encounters while soloing. My go to are Shadow Strike (for the above reason), Lashing Blade, Blitz, Duelist's Flurry, Sly Flourish. Hit Blitz, go stealth, DF the tougher enemy, stealth LB, and pick off low hp adds with Sly Flourish. You basically go through fight after fight quickly while soloing. With enough Lifesteal, I have never needed to use health potions while soloing.
In T2s and up (except PK/TOS) I usually run ITC, Blitz (or PotB) and Smoke. You don't NEED ITC but it helps since less time dodging, more time attacking and as a PVE you really need to work harder than the rest of the group. Blitz/PotB just to help clear trash, otherwise I run Wicked if there are a lot of AOE types. Smoke to add some utility though again, if there are a ton of CW/GWF you might use something else. In Spider there are a lot less red zones and the driders aren't immune to stuns so I use Dazing in place of ITC. Same for T1s and PK, though in the latter it might be worth it to ditch dazing and just take both Blitz and PotB as that place has nothing to attract a rogues attention apart from the bosses, one of which you probably won't be able to find.
With a augment pet, i got 2500 recovery and almost 25% RI, i can also spam WR too if i want...
I dont need swash to spam skills. But i need skulkers to deal more damage and stay more time in stealth
( and be less squichy ).
When i talked about alone vs boss, i meant alone/tanking boss while the others players fight the adds. I was not talking about solo-dungeon.
@malphaeous : action advantage feat is broken
Bring arpen up to 24% and, for pve, you will not need more (but not less), try to have 5k power at least and then go for what you prefer for the other (recovery at 1.5-1.7 is what I think is the right amount).
For the encounters I use dazing, itc, smoke and for bosses dazing, itc, wr. In the end everyone have is own build and eventually exp is what determines the build that most suits you
@ Valencay soft cap on crit is 50%that is when diminishing returns start to make it less economic to spend points to crit, hard cap is around 52 % this is where you start going backwards I actually stacked up beyond 52 and I've seen others do it as well, accidentally and without use of chants, that is when I decided ( for me ) that it was better to drop down to about 50% and stack power 24% Ar Pen is right at the soft cap. dazing is lower damage than LB and bosses aren't stunable, WR will increase your overall DPS not to mention it raises your damage on subsequent. but as you stated in the end it is personal preference experience and what works best for the individual.
About crit, its still up to you, 40-50% is well enough for me.
Power work better than in M2, i also got 40% crit easily ( scoundrel path, not exe ) and almost 5 - 5.5k power ( with skulkers ).
Power works with non-crit AND crit hit.
I didnt check but it could be in terms of DPS ( to stop to 40-45% crit and max power, not scoundrel path ^^ )
I know but dazing has less than half the cd of lb so it gives more dmg in the same time
Animation canceling on Stealth+Dazing is subpar compared to autocrit of Stealth+LB, which bypasses your would-be 40-45% crit chance: which could be interpreted as a +55% crit upgrade on the DPS logs. On the other hand, the daze effect is an altogether different subject that DS brings to the table.
Dazing Strike can hit up to three targets though...
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Agreed, if the moons are aligned.
/<3 singularity
I just realized...why are we arguing between DS and LB. It's PvE for Pete's sakes. Use both
Dazing Strike should then be benefiting from both Cunning Ambusher and Whirlwind Sneak Attack. Dazing Strike is feated with Catspaw Style, which adds a debuff to make your follow-up feated Sly Flourish even more effective.
(It's a build I've only used in T1 dungeons, but it's really fun.)
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...as well as the recharge time. DS can be used as twice as often as LB, but two DS outdamage one LB -- unless a very significantly unlucky non-crit streak happens, repeated use of DS will outdamage LB in the long run.... also, like you've mentioned, DS does have a 3-target max AoE, as well as the 5 second Daze is the only real CC a TR has, and is actually useful. Dazing Strike can also contribute to defense debuffs with certain feats.
Personal preference, I'd go with Dazing Strike.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Agreed.
4 second recharge, and on average 4~5k on crits. This is actually not bad at all in terms of damage. On average 5 WR attacks can be used for every one LB strike, and the overall damage count of WR does not fall back much at all. Numerous, fast-recharge attacks are also more useful for AA to proc.
...man, Action Advantage was DA BOMB for my build when VP didn't have any recharges.. imagine that, lol.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'