Why do melees act like X-Men?

ianthewizard2012

That's getting ridiculous. Melee classes' powers aren't melee powers, they are clearly supernatural powers.

Threatening Rush isn't rush, it's flying. Lunging Strike isn't lunging, it's flying. Rogue and Ranger attack like super saiya. Rogue can teleport. CC immunity, perma-stealth, .....

Is this D&D or X-Men?

eldarth

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Is this D&D or X-Men?

It's Cryptic CityOfHeroes/GenericMMOCombatEngine w/Fantasy based costumes, duh.

zacazu

audience. I love it ... hahah

reagenlionel1

I always think of it as rogues using shadow magic.

Threatening Rush I see it more as a short ranged Leap

And Lunging Strike a sudden mad Dashing stab (Stinger from devil may cry)

It gives the moves some flair and power while still being fast paced. Without it, combat would feel much too slow and boring in my opinion. Thats part of the appeal.

ambisinisterr

*looks at rulebook*

I am not seeing the issue. You are just unhappy you can't be a wizard on a pillar and completely and utterly destroy a melee character without taking damage.

matiagronx

Not that great of an answer ambisinisterr. Common sense is the word.
Cw is a glass cannon class with "long to mid" ranged attacks mostly, gwf currently is a "more than reasonable" tank cannon class with some outrageous "mid ranged attacks" and an absolutely ridiculus running ability, TRs are godlike versus Cws, Hrs are godlike vs almost all classes, its like they are still being promoted as the new class. So ye its quite logical for a CW to see pvp as a superhero fighting arena, at least in higher levels of pvp skill.

Common sense's rulebook has it all written there, everyone can see it despite personal taste. It seems though that developers prefer a certain class imbalance to be always in place. It seems that this creates a "rage" dynamic in the game that breathes life into it. I have no problem with that, as long as it changes frequently.

PVP recently invaded PVE's grounds and is very welcome but the bugged GWF is still there after all these months, bugged HR is still there after 6 months, bugged TR is still there....trying to seriously balance these imbalances wouldnt hurt.

So dear OP as of now its still totally ridiculus to face a GWF or an HR or a TR so just go with that in mind and take it as a game bug, as the rest of us do. By focusing on game bugs u missing the rest of the game, which still looks fresh and promising, if only at some point they would release the foundry's real power..

ambisinisterr

Thing is, it's not a bug. Which is why this thread was created. He didn't like me telling him that his "bug report" is 100% WAI.

This is not D&D where wizards are vastly more powerful than melee fighters. They are just different.
Standing on a pillar should give you an edge, not a win. If you try to hit me from a pillar I expect to be able to do something about it.

Lunging strike is not lethal by any means but it will cause you to be a bit more cautious.

Sorry. I love D&D. But this is an MMO. You won't get god mode wizards.

I'm not saying GWF's are not OP. I've touted that banner for a long time. What I am saying is that it is common sense that you should expect some retaliation for being out of my sword range. It's not lethal. It's just something. And nothing worth complaining about.

matiagronx

Why all the pillar talk? Cws are not statues standing on pillars, this practice is rare and mostly regretted. Fight is done "in the pit" and in there Cws are way, way too squishy vs all classes, cause as the OP said, all other classes have ridiculus "supernatural" ranged powers with stupid combos. The only way for cws to compensate for this would be to double their range somehow, and even then it wouldnt be practical to fight from so long. So lets just be realistic about the current situation and admit that classes are bugged in pvp. The unbalanced mixed fights with lower gs/unskilled/inexperienced people only hide the problem untill u have equal skill/gs/equipment pvp matches where u see the real difference and the buggy mechanics. I m not condemning anyone, just seeing things as they are and hopefully wait for common sense to prevail, for a while at least.

ambisinisterr

Bug = Not Working As Intended.
Lunging strike and other such attacks = Working As Intended.

And I reference the pillar, lunging strike and the general "it's not fair I can't stand on a pillar all day" message because I have been around the block.

Wanting more control to keep people at range is one thing, complaining that they are given tools so they have a chance of reaching you if you don't control them is another. Those powers are all directly in the player handbook. I encourage you to read it. The D&D Player Handbook is always going to take precedence.

matiagronx

Ok so the correct thing to do is complain about cws lack of handbook powers implementation. Cws powers in pvp = "not working as intended" which leads us to the conclusion that Cw is a bugged class concerning pvp. Unless someone there gives the cw Disintegrate to compensate for the complete lack of control over every class, cw was/is and will be the pvp broken class. Its good to clarify this to everyone before starting a conversation regarding cws in pvp.

sockmunkey

And yet CWs completely destroy stuff in PVE. So how do you fix one aspect without ruining the other? Simply adding more powers, more damage, or more control will only serve to make CWs more powerful in PVE.

ianthewizard2012

ambisinisterr wrote: »

Thing is, it's not a bug. Which is why this thread was created. He didn't like me telling him that his "bug report" is 100% WAI.

This is not D&D where wizards are vastly more powerful than melee fighters. They are just different.
Standing on a pillar should give you an edge, not a win. If you try to hit me from a pillar I expect to be able to do something about it.

Lunging strike is not lethal by any means but it will cause you to be a bit more cautious.

Sorry. I love D&D. But this is an MMO. You won't get god mode wizards.

I'm not saying GWF's are not OP. I've touted that banner for a long time. What I am saying is that it is common sense that you should expect some retaliation for being out of my sword range. It's not lethal. It's just something. And nothing worth complaining about.

Actually this thread was created because many of melee classes's powers are overpowered and work like supernatural abilities that makes them nothing like D&D melees but more like X-Men. I was not referring to the abuse of Lunging Strike, although its "long-ranged shift" effect is one of the supernatural abilities I was talking about.

Btw, I'm pretty sure that GF being able to fly from the ground onto the top of a pillar is not working as intended. If it's working as intended, they should be able to use it at anywhere as long as the target is within the power's range. But they often have to stand very close to the pillar and stand on a "right spot" in order to trigger the flying.

colonelwing

Do you ever watch the TV series "Spartacus", Ian?

I cannot post a video link, because the footage contains 18+ material but this gif shows the jump that reminds me of lunging strike, a lot. Also i don't see a problem with lunging strike since it has a 7 sec CD. I can however agree with threatening rush being a bit too "spammable". What you are referring to is called a "dash" (grounded leap towards a target) and not a lunge (leaping into the air, charging towards a target)

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Peace.

zebular

. . . If you take away all the flashy "effects" when abilities are done by the melee classes, it becomes quite apparent that they do indeed follow how the rule-books state, at least to a very close resemblance. It was said that the effects of powers is something Cryptic and WotC keep in mind and they want to deliver a mix of "MMO Style Effects" with "D&D PnP" effects. You must keep in mind, this is not turn-based where we are able to give in to our imaginations for sometimes minutes on end, contemplating each round and turn. Things happen in real time and if you take away all the special effects, the game would seem much more dull and boring, with each move or ability being far too similar than the last in appearance.

. . . Furthermore, this is the Forgotten Realms where magic and divine power radiate to nearly every inch of Realmspace and the through out the planes of existences. Magic is quite abundant, more-so than any other official D&D Campaign, so it is quite acceptable for there to be flying warriors and supernatural-like abilities could be quite common too.

. . . When I hear people complain about the rich magic, varying alignments of creatures, and rare races being playable characters, I always wonder if they are familiar with the lore and history of the Forgotten Realms. I've been DMing Forgotten Realms for two decades now. I do not see anything in NWO that I couldn't imagine taking place in the Realms. D&D is after-all, a game of imagination and the Realms takes that to the extreme. Indeed.

ianthewizard2012

colonelwing wrote: »

Do you ever watch the TV series "Spartacus", Ian?

I cannot post a video link, because the footage contains 18+ material but this gif shows the jump that reminds me of lunging strike, a lot. Also i don't see a problem with lunging strike since it has a 7 sec CD. I can however agree with threatening rush being a bit too "spammable". What you are referring to is called a "dash" (grounded leap towards a target) and not a lunge (leaping into the air, charging towards a target)

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Peace.

I haven't watched them. But there seem to be an object for him to utilize so that he can jump higher. Anyway how GF flies up is way to much.

ianthewizard2012

zebular wrote: »

. . . Furthermore, this is the Forgotten Realms where magic and divine power radiate to nearly every inch of Realmspace and the through out the planes of existences. Magic is quite abundant, more-so than any other official D&D Campaign, so it is quite acceptable for there to be flying warriors and supernatural-like abilities could be quite common too.

Not from what I have heard of. Except for Swordmage and Battlemind.

zebular

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Not from what I have heard of. Except for Swordmage and Battlemind.

. . . Magical items, my friend. Spellsurges, cantras, native abilities/powers, wild magic, permanency magics, rune magic, I could go on. Remember, as I said, D&D is a game of imagination, fantasy, and adventure. The only rule that exists is the Rule of the DM, the rest are all guidelines. Here, Cryptic/PWE is the DM, which is not different than the power any other DM holds over their own Campaign Setting. There are so many ways one could explain the things we see, especially with this being the Forgotten Realms.

. . . It just takes a small dash of Role-playing sprinkled with Imagination, the two of which are foundations of D&D. Cryptic/PWE has given us a game with a myriad of distinctions. As role-players, it is up to us to treat this game for what it is, a D&D MMO and use the tools, props, and other content to explain, define, and imagine our characters and their lives. In this regard, it is no different than paper & pencil D&D.

reiwulf

so us melee fighters should be able to just beath things up with our weapons? clang clang clang? how boring. we want some flashy effects too. I don't see the problem.