I've been paying to play since I started in closed beta and your post sums up how I feel more or less.
I'm in a very similar situation as far as married with children don't have lots of time to play so I spend just as much time on the gateway as I do in game over a period a month. I do get about 8 days off a month though and will play 6-10 hours a day when possible and try to keep my 4 "main" characters going and staying well geared for new content. I used to spend several hundred dollars a month on Console games and other PC games but as I find I'm pretty playing NW 95% of the time most of that spending has gone into the game now and I'm ok with that.
My Nephew who I play with a lot has a very similar build with equipment / enchants etc and he does it mainly through grinding as he has more time then $ where as I have more $ then time. I don't think their "model" is broken you just have to pick which way you want to experience the content
But, you cannot complain about it being expensive when you can get it for free by putting in the time. Your complain amounts to "I want it now. NOW! I. WANT. IT. NOW!" If you were my kid, I'd tell you're being selfish, and clearly Neverwinter isn't the right game for you, and to go outside and play instead. You might consider not playing MMOs, and perhaps getting into the single player Elder Scrolls game. You can give yourself god-powers in those games all you want, and it only costs you the price of the box. In MMOs, especially in the ages of "F2P," it either takes FOREVER or it costs A LOT to max your character out. That's just how it goes.
Please re-read some of my posts. I explicitly stated that I do not want BiS gear or greater/perfects/r8s upon reaching 60. I had to finish 18 TOS runs to get my armour piece. 11 runs in FH. Endured countless fail runs in Mad Dragon on both my DC and GF in order to get their BiS gear.
I say again, I do not want things for free. Simply a reasonable shot at them.
I know the new refining system made it cheaper, but Coal prices have now pushed enchants above pre-Mod 2 levels. Lesser enchants are now nearly three times the price they were when I started in August.
In fact, I'd like to emphasise the price of lessers. Forget the 10 mil P.Vorpal, but rather look at the 300 - 500k price of a lesser. An entry level enchant. That is 2 to 3 times the price I would have paid in August. Forget Gs and Ps and R7s+, just getting a start in the game has now become far more expensive and if you do not have an established main to financially support your new alts it is a tougher and more costly slog than it has ever been.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
Cryptic could have easily generated sales by giving you 4 Coal Wards for $10, but instead they have forced players to spend $10 in either RL currency or the AD eqivalent of $10.
You know I agree and its just good business that more people would spend money. I'd settle for 3 or maybe even 2 for 10 bucks. They do sales once in awhile on them when they do is when I pick them up, but the last good sale was around Christmas back when I didn't know their value and bought a few and made some enchants and I didn't know how they worked and sold them for cheap as it turns out and made more til I was out, now i'm pretty sad at how I wasted when I was a total newb (for some reason n o o b is censored).
I wish this company would acknowledge business practices of you want MORE people to spend money, not milk the handful of whales that play ....
More people would spend if prices were more inline with what you get, cosmetics that don't affect game play should be cheaper than $1 per piece ... should be more along the lines of $1 dollar for changing the looks of your whole outfit not just one piece. Mount training probably should be sold as a zen item again somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe $5. Mounts should not be priced 30 - 50 dollars, I mean really? I can buy a whole game to play for that price, why is a mount for one game priced that high???? Bags of holding $10?? They were on sale for something like $4 I think a piece again around Christmas, I bought several (although not enough not that I have several level 60 toons now).
Logic dictates that if a sale price increases your sales volume dramatically then maybe just maybe you should consider lowering your price closer to that sale price and in future you won't have to have a sale at 60% - 75%.
I guess in future i'll need to remember to take the holiday sales and milk them dry for all i'm willing to spend and then flat stop spending money the rest of the time.
F2P is supposed to bring in sustained income from extra features, cosmetic or other. However it is my opinion (maybe inaccurate) that this company is actually losing money (I.E. making less than it "could") by marketing its in game items too high. Essentially relying on people who play that have no concept of the value of a Dollar or just flat willing to spend more money to beat other people for a month. Widen your base of paying customers is the goal ... just common business practices.
I also think that the AD should probably just be removed from the game. Its causing a problem because people hoard and then pay ridiculous prices in AH for things with it ... which I think can be solved with removing the sell zen for AD feature/exchange and force people to only use in game ways of earning AD. Sure people will still hoard but it will be a lot harder to get AD wealth in the millions when you are capped at refining 24k AD/day with NO other way to get refined AD.
If removing AD/zen exchange isn't desirable then maybe look at lowering the price of AD items to spend money on in the game or better yet control the AH pricing, set a cap to the value of an item, if people want to undercut for quick AD then so be it, but stop gauging the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of people just because some people have played forever and or have 10 characters they farm AD on (not sure how people have the time for that cept the ones that do it to make real world money by spending day in and day out farming dailies on character to sell to people on 3rd party websites for real money).
Take a poll on pricing or AD costs, find out what would cause people to spend more AD. I keep seeing forums on AD sinks and moderators commenting how suggestion are not true ad sinks. Well a true AD sink would force people to spend AD something like the black ice in IWD ... that doesn't feel good and most players will probably dislike that, but if you present things to players that cost some AD (something that doesn't require weeks of farming dailies mind you, not all of us can play 8 hours a day to accommodate doing dailies and then the game content we actually want to enjoy) and find a price that makes most of your player base to "want" to spend AD on. Nobody wants to be forced to spend AD, you have to make them "want" to spend AD. Appearance change should be no higher 4k AD/piece of gear to change the appearance of. I personally would probably change appearances every couple weeks if they were priced like that (every two weeks maybe even weekly sounds like an AD sink to me as opposed to that 51k price now that causes me to NEVER spend AD on transmute).
For example I don't like running foundry's day in and day out. But I will usually run some PVP for one reason or another (except recently when PVP matches went from doing 4+ in an hour to now taking so much time its taking an hour to do 1 or 2 matches). GG dailes are about the only thing worth farming for and even that takes an hour and a half of my time and might not even get the pvp daily from it. Frankly the time v. AD reward doing foundry's is probably the best option but its not fun to do day in and day out like pvp. One side suggestion, cap pvp matches to 10 minutes, most points in 10 minutes or reaching 1000 points prior wins the match. At least this will save off the 30 minute grudge matches that are not that entertaining. Sure they are exciting to some extent but do two of those in a row and you find yourself just wanting to quit cause you are sick of 30 minutes or more of back and forth. One nice thing about pre ELO pvp is it didnt' take your whole day or game time, you could knock out some pvp (win or lose) and still enjoy some other content. OR in the alternative instead of capping the time of matches then move the PVP daily to 1 match, if its won you get 4k AD if you lose you get 2k AD (for lord daily that would 8/4). That way we can grind our win or lose and move on to more enjoyable things and still be working towards pvp goals (although you need to fix the glory reward to at least give losers more reason to play, having the possibility of 0 glory has made me stop wanting to pvp along with the long game times).
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sbgkjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited June 2014
I See the greed that has been established in this game already and im sorry, but some should just be ashamed of themselves.This game company has made it to nearly impossible to get anything good in this game without having to pay.That is not a F2P modle as far as im concerned.Giving away rank 4 and 5 gems in events is also just greed.I play serveral F 2 P games and this one is by far the worst in greed.30-50 dollars for a mount?Are you guys stupid your paying for pixels.This isnt your cable provider giving you programing.I have already seen what happens with greed in games.It destroys them.Now i got people in this game throwing it down my face that i must spend money but i will not be belittle like that.I have had more thern 1 player in this game do the same like your all supporters of Perfect world or something and their greed.My responce to anyone telling me if im poor i shouldnt be in this game is........Maybe this game company shouldnt be around.Their events are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and they make astral diamonds so **** hard to earn its rediculous.For me to have to sit in the game all day to grind on foundaries and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is lame they expect players to either dish out money or live intheir game.Anyway im done ranting im argueing with my wife.Enjoy my lame rant.
Mounts should not be priced 30 - 50 dollars, I mean really? I can buy a whole game to play for that price, why is a mount for one game priced that high????
Because they are account-wide; every character on the account can claim one. 10 characters = 10 mounts. 50 characters = 50 mounts.
Because they are account-wide; every character on the account can claim one. 10 characters = 10 mounts. 50 characters = 50 mounts.
Awesome, if you ignore the fact that most people don't make 10 characters. Of course if you do, you have to spend on character slots too. By itself the slot price isn't too bad, but it's still an addition to the already ridiculously expensive mounts that they've already permanently reduced.
prices hav enothing to do iwth devs, cryptic etc. we (the gamers) set AH prices. and sorry. just cause u cpmplain doesnt mean im ganna sell you something cheaper. lol but not everythings going up. i bought rank 7 darks for the hell of it for my utility at 75k each. and prices are sitting around 75-85k. 20k cheaper than they were a month ago. as for their prices(bazzar-zen-etc) its a MMO. ment to take a long time to play. if you could get something in a month then everyone would have it and it be kinda lame.
prices hav enothing to do iwth devs, cryptic etc. we (the gamers) set AH prices. and sorry. just cause u cpmplain doesnt mean im ganna sell you something cheaper. lol but not everythings going up. i bought rank 7 darks for the hell of it for my utility at 75k each. and prices are sitting around 75-85k. 20k cheaper than they were a month ago. as for their prices(bazzar-zen-etc) its a MMO. ment to take a long time to play. if you could get something in a month then everyone would have it and it be kinda lame.
Coal Wards and associated enchantments just about doubled in price in ONE day thanks to a change made by Cryptic.
Would you like to try again and tell us Cryptic has not had a hand in increasing prices rapidly? Crytpic is directly responsible for price inflation with regards to Coal Wards and weapon/armor enchantments. They further reduced the availability of BOE Coals, thus placing selling power in the hands of those who have hoarded Coal Wards or have the capital to open lockboxes on a whim.
And no, I don't blame people that doubled the price for a lesser enchantment, that's just good business. They took advantage of the situation created by Cryptic. I will however continue to blast Cryptic for said change and will continue to keep my wallet firmly sealed.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Oh man the situation is bad. We need the drop rate for Coal Wards greatly increased for Invocations. PLEASE!!
ADD: I think thumbed thru all 5 pages and didn't see replies from PW themselves. If there is another thread discussing this where PW has acknowledged there is a problem, would someone please link me? My question right now is: Has this issue been acknowledged by PW staff (designers, producers, etc)?
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Oh man the situation is bad. We need the drop rate for Coal Wards greatly increased for Invocations. PLEASE!!
Disagree.
It will only help praybots even more. I'd rather not implement a feature that will let a player with hundreds of characters manipulate the market (and yes they do exist back in the day. Learn your NW history).
If you want to truly help the players, have coal wards drop in events or in tier 2.5 dungeons. Make them earn it.
It will only help praybots even more. I'd rather not implement a feature that will let a player with hundreds of characters manipulate the market (and yes they do exist back in the day. Learn your NW history).
If you want to truly help the players, have coal wards drop in events or in tier 2.5 dungeons. Make them earn it.
Ok mate, I hear you & I understand. What you've suggested sounds rather excellent and would greatly benefit the "true active players". *fingers crossed for something as tantalizing as this*
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
It will only help praybots even more. I'd rather not implement a feature that will let a player with hundreds of characters manipulate the market (and yes they do exist back in the day. Learn your NW history).
If you want to truly help the players, have coal wards drop in events or in tier 2.5 dungeons. Make them earn it.
And according to drop rates at these events and dungeons, how many thousands of tries it would take me to get a single coal ward? Do you really believe the drop rate would be acceptable? I'd better stick to the praying.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
It will only help praybots even more. I'd rather not implement a feature that will let a player with hundreds of characters manipulate the market (and yes they do exist back in the day. Learn your NW history).
If you want to truly help the players, have coal wards drop in events or in tier 2.5 dungeons. Make them earn it.
I don't think 2.5 dungeons is quite the right "formula" because that's going to be hard to get through if you haven't already had your hands on a few coalescent wards, but I agree that there should be some way the odds improve for people who are actually playing the game instead of just farming accounts. It can't be something simple like "you have a level 60 character", but maybe something like how often you complete quests, how many monsters you've killed, something like that. Along similar lines of the "hire an economist" comment, Cryptic must have tons of data they can examine to try to come up with something.
Comments
I've been paying to play since I started in closed beta and your post sums up how I feel more or less.
I'm in a very similar situation as far as married with children don't have lots of time to play so I spend just as much time on the gateway as I do in game over a period a month. I do get about 8 days off a month though and will play 6-10 hours a day when possible and try to keep my 4 "main" characters going and staying well geared for new content. I used to spend several hundred dollars a month on Console games and other PC games but as I find I'm pretty playing NW 95% of the time most of that spending has gone into the game now and I'm ok with that.
My Nephew who I play with a lot has a very similar build with equipment / enchants etc and he does it mainly through grinding as he has more time then $ where as I have more $ then time. I don't think their "model" is broken you just have to pick which way you want to experience the content
Please re-read some of my posts. I explicitly stated that I do not want BiS gear or greater/perfects/r8s upon reaching 60. I had to finish 18 TOS runs to get my armour piece. 11 runs in FH. Endured countless fail runs in Mad Dragon on both my DC and GF in order to get their BiS gear.
I say again, I do not want things for free. Simply a reasonable shot at them.
I know the new refining system made it cheaper, but Coal prices have now pushed enchants above pre-Mod 2 levels. Lesser enchants are now nearly three times the price they were when I started in August.
In fact, I'd like to emphasise the price of lessers. Forget the 10 mil P.Vorpal, but rather look at the 300 - 500k price of a lesser. An entry level enchant. That is 2 to 3 times the price I would have paid in August. Forget Gs and Ps and R7s+, just getting a start in the game has now become far more expensive and if you do not have an established main to financially support your new alts it is a tougher and more costly slog than it has ever been.
You know I agree and its just good business that more people would spend money. I'd settle for 3 or maybe even 2 for 10 bucks. They do sales once in awhile on them when they do is when I pick them up, but the last good sale was around Christmas back when I didn't know their value and bought a few and made some enchants and I didn't know how they worked and sold them for cheap as it turns out and made more til I was out, now i'm pretty sad at how I wasted when I was a total newb (for some reason n o o b is censored).
I wish this company would acknowledge business practices of you want MORE people to spend money, not milk the handful of whales that play ....
More people would spend if prices were more inline with what you get, cosmetics that don't affect game play should be cheaper than $1 per piece ... should be more along the lines of $1 dollar for changing the looks of your whole outfit not just one piece. Mount training probably should be sold as a zen item again somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe $5. Mounts should not be priced 30 - 50 dollars, I mean really? I can buy a whole game to play for that price, why is a mount for one game priced that high???? Bags of holding $10?? They were on sale for something like $4 I think a piece again around Christmas, I bought several (although not enough not that I have several level 60 toons now).
Logic dictates that if a sale price increases your sales volume dramatically then maybe just maybe you should consider lowering your price closer to that sale price and in future you won't have to have a sale at 60% - 75%.
I guess in future i'll need to remember to take the holiday sales and milk them dry for all i'm willing to spend and then flat stop spending money the rest of the time.
F2P is supposed to bring in sustained income from extra features, cosmetic or other. However it is my opinion (maybe inaccurate) that this company is actually losing money (I.E. making less than it "could") by marketing its in game items too high. Essentially relying on people who play that have no concept of the value of a Dollar or just flat willing to spend more money to beat other people for a month. Widen your base of paying customers is the goal ... just common business practices.
I also think that the AD should probably just be removed from the game. Its causing a problem because people hoard and then pay ridiculous prices in AH for things with it ... which I think can be solved with removing the sell zen for AD feature/exchange and force people to only use in game ways of earning AD. Sure people will still hoard but it will be a lot harder to get AD wealth in the millions when you are capped at refining 24k AD/day with NO other way to get refined AD.
If removing AD/zen exchange isn't desirable then maybe look at lowering the price of AD items to spend money on in the game or better yet control the AH pricing, set a cap to the value of an item, if people want to undercut for quick AD then so be it, but stop gauging the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of people just because some people have played forever and or have 10 characters they farm AD on (not sure how people have the time for that cept the ones that do it to make real world money by spending day in and day out farming dailies on character to sell to people on 3rd party websites for real money).
Take a poll on pricing or AD costs, find out what would cause people to spend more AD. I keep seeing forums on AD sinks and moderators commenting how suggestion are not true ad sinks. Well a true AD sink would force people to spend AD something like the black ice in IWD ... that doesn't feel good and most players will probably dislike that, but if you present things to players that cost some AD (something that doesn't require weeks of farming dailies mind you, not all of us can play 8 hours a day to accommodate doing dailies and then the game content we actually want to enjoy) and find a price that makes most of your player base to "want" to spend AD on. Nobody wants to be forced to spend AD, you have to make them "want" to spend AD. Appearance change should be no higher 4k AD/piece of gear to change the appearance of. I personally would probably change appearances every couple weeks if they were priced like that (every two weeks maybe even weekly sounds like an AD sink to me as opposed to that 51k price now that causes me to NEVER spend AD on transmute).
For example I don't like running foundry's day in and day out. But I will usually run some PVP for one reason or another (except recently when PVP matches went from doing 4+ in an hour to now taking so much time its taking an hour to do 1 or 2 matches). GG dailes are about the only thing worth farming for and even that takes an hour and a half of my time and might not even get the pvp daily from it. Frankly the time v. AD reward doing foundry's is probably the best option but its not fun to do day in and day out like pvp. One side suggestion, cap pvp matches to 10 minutes, most points in 10 minutes or reaching 1000 points prior wins the match. At least this will save off the 30 minute grudge matches that are not that entertaining. Sure they are exciting to some extent but do two of those in a row and you find yourself just wanting to quit cause you are sick of 30 minutes or more of back and forth. One nice thing about pre ELO pvp is it didnt' take your whole day or game time, you could knock out some pvp (win or lose) and still enjoy some other content. OR in the alternative instead of capping the time of matches then move the PVP daily to 1 match, if its won you get 4k AD if you lose you get 2k AD (for lord daily that would 8/4). That way we can grind our win or lose and move on to more enjoyable things and still be working towards pvp goals (although you need to fix the glory reward to at least give losers more reason to play, having the possibility of 0 glory has made me stop wanting to pvp along with the long game times).
Because they are account-wide; every character on the account can claim one. 10 characters = 10 mounts. 50 characters = 50 mounts.
Awesome, if you ignore the fact that most people don't make 10 characters. Of course if you do, you have to spend on character slots too. By itself the slot price isn't too bad, but it's still an addition to the already ridiculously expensive mounts that they've already permanently reduced.
it's still ridiculously overpriced.
Coal Wards and associated enchantments just about doubled in price in ONE day thanks to a change made by Cryptic.
Would you like to try again and tell us Cryptic has not had a hand in increasing prices rapidly? Crytpic is directly responsible for price inflation with regards to Coal Wards and weapon/armor enchantments. They further reduced the availability of BOE Coals, thus placing selling power in the hands of those who have hoarded Coal Wards or have the capital to open lockboxes on a whim.
And no, I don't blame people that doubled the price for a lesser enchantment, that's just good business. They took advantage of the situation created by Cryptic. I will however continue to blast Cryptic for said change and will continue to keep my wallet firmly sealed.
Oh man the situation is bad. We need the drop rate for Coal Wards greatly increased for Invocations. PLEASE!!
ADD: I think thumbed thru all 5 pages and didn't see replies from PW themselves. If there is another thread discussing this where PW has acknowledged there is a problem, would someone please link me? My question right now is: Has this issue been acknowledged by PW staff (designers, producers, etc)?
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Disagree.
It will only help praybots even more. I'd rather not implement a feature that will let a player with hundreds of characters manipulate the market (and yes they do exist back in the day. Learn your NW history).
If you want to truly help the players, have coal wards drop in events or in tier 2.5 dungeons. Make them earn it.
Ok mate, I hear you & I understand. What you've suggested sounds rather excellent and would greatly benefit the "true active players". *fingers crossed for something as tantalizing as this*
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
And according to drop rates at these events and dungeons, how many thousands of tries it would take me to get a single coal ward? Do you really believe the drop rate would be acceptable? I'd better stick to the praying.
I don't think 2.5 dungeons is quite the right "formula" because that's going to be hard to get through if you haven't already had your hands on a few coalescent wards, but I agree that there should be some way the odds improve for people who are actually playing the game instead of just farming accounts. It can't be something simple like "you have a level 60 character", but maybe something like how often you complete quests, how many monsters you've killed, something like that. Along similar lines of the "hire an economist" comment, Cryptic must have tons of data they can examine to try to come up with something.